Rape allegations mount against Bill Cosby #2

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Victims in the Cosby Case Should be Supported, Believed
- National Sexual Violence Resource Center

I would consider this group a credible authority on the subject of rape, IMO.

http://m.nsvrc.org/news/press-releases/victims-cosby-case-should-be-supported-believed

"The level of attention around high-profile cases makes it even more daunting to speak out, as victims fear the negative impact of media scrutiny and retaliation from the public or the accused.
In some cases, victims may report what happened right away. In other cases, victims will remain silent for weeks, months or even years before discussing the assault. A delay in the reporting of a sexual assault has no bearing on the veracity of the allegations. In fact, false reporting is extremely rare."



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I don't think any one should ever be believed without having to have some evidence of the event. I think Children are the only group where you believe them first and then work backwards to make sure they are telling the truth, but adults have to have more than just because I said so.

 

[Donjeta]

I don't think any one should ever be believed without having to have some evidence of the event. I think Children are the only group where you believe them first and then work backwards to make sure they are telling the truth, but adults have to have more than just because I said so.

So, adults are guilty until proven innocent, unless they're an accused rapist. Then, and only then, should they be believed as a default.

 

[BirdycatNY]

I have a college friend who dated a guy for awhile and he was HIV/HEP positive. He knew for years before they had unprotected consensual sex and never disclosed his status to her. She ended up becoming HIV/HEP positive from him and never prosecuted or went to LE about this (true story). Now imo it's a crime what this guy did; and I imagine if she did press charges and this went to court that it would come ultimately come down to their testimonies after verifying HIV status, idk. I encouraged her to go to LE but she did not want to because she felt sorry for the guy etc. Anyone care to victim-blame in this case; no one should blame her, right? Or is victim-blaming in difficult cases somehow acceptable...Should I not believe my friend because she didn't testify in court against individual? Can I reasonable assume the guy is a criminal? Does my friend have to corroborate to me that he didn't tell her in order for me to believe her regardless? If she waited 20 years to tell me (or publicly discuss) her HIV status and what happened, does it make it less believable?

In cases of sexual assault/facilitated sexual assault, witness/victim testimony is essential too. Evidence should be corroborated of course, with other testimony or physical evidence. But the reason that I bring up the HIV/HEP story is to show other difficult, and dangerous cases that do rely in large part on witness/victim testimony. I think maybe some individuals don't understand the crime drug-facilitated rape/sexual assault or socialization and therefore are dismissive (as we've seen with some celebrity/public opinion). It also may relate to the inherent personal biases that individuals have about women or sexual assault/drug-facilitated rape, and unfortunately women can be tough on other women. Or maybe they "feel sorry" for the alleged perpetrator, Idk. We need to socialize young men/women what are acceptable boundaries/behavior and what is a crime, because clearly some celebrities/individuals didn't get the memo. Jmo/

 

[wendiesan]

People are being convicted of aggravated sexual assault for not informing their sexual partners that they are HIV-positive.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ot-telling-partner-about-his-health-1.1183694

The conviction is Ian Thomas Williams's second for knowingly having sex while infected with the virus that causes AIDS.

The first woman he infected was his wife, who died of AIDS-related complications in 2005. He served a year behind bars for aggravated assault.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

A lot of time, energy and web space is taken up questioning the stories of survivors of sexual assault.

People wonder why some of Bill Cosby's 20+ accusers took decades to report the incidents, and why Emma Sulkowicz sent friendly Facebook messages to the man she and two other women say sexually assaulted them. Rape is one of the most underreported crimes, and men are more likely to experience sexual assault than they are to be falsely accused of committing it, but yet we still focus on whether or not an alleged victim's narrative is "good enough" to be taken seriously.

Still confused? Here's a handy dandy chart to clear things up.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/...rt_n_6615956.html?ncid=tweetlnkushpmg00000067

 

[Montjoy]

I don't think any one should ever be believed without having to have some evidence of the event. I think Children are the only group where you believe them first and then work backwards to make sure they are telling the truth, but adults have to have more than just because I said so.

So, if someone walks by you in a place with no security cameras and gropes you sexually, leaving no physical evidence (and let's say that they do this repeatedly over time), they should never be believed, and so you'd be fine with them going free and continuing the practice on as many women as they like indefinitely? I'm guessing that you wouldn't be, but your posts here have repeatedly supported that position, which I find ghastly.

 

[SwampMama]

I don't think any one should ever be believed without having to have some evidence of the event. I think Children are the only group where you believe them first and then work backwards to make sure they are telling the truth, but adults have to have more than just because I said so.

But what evidence would you require to believe it? Even if a woman tested positive for having his sperm in her and also had drugs in her system, BC could still say it was consensual and that she was a willing participant. That's still a he said/she said case. And since he was not drugged, he is likely to remember more of the event and be able to twist it into his favor.

I just don't see what reason all these women would have to make up such a story and there are so many of them. So i guess unless they have actual video of the event happening, you will not believe it and that is sad. So it doesn't surprise me that many women never report their rapes because they are traumatized enough and know that they won't be believed anyway unless they have it on video and even then their reputations and lives are dragged thru the mud.

Just as sad is the fact that even when women do report it and do get the evidence in a rape kit, those kits often lay unprocessed for years and years while the offender continues to commit crimes and the victim count grows.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

But what evidence would you require to believe it? Even if a woman tested positive for having his sperm in her and also had drugs in her system, BC could still say it was consensual and that she was a willing participant. That's still a he said/she said case. And since he was not drugged, he is likely to remember more of the event and be able to twist it into his favor.

I just don't see what reason all these women would have to make up such a story and there are so many of them. So i guess unless they have actual video of the event happening, you will not believe it and that is sad. So it doesn't surprise me that many women never report their rapes because they are traumatized enough and know that they won't be believed anyway unless they have it on video and even then their reputations and lives are dragged thru the mud.

Just as sad is the fact that even when women do report it and do get the evidence in a rape kit, those kits often lay unprocessed for years and years while the offender continues to commit crimes and the victim count grows.

I do agree about the rape kits. I would be more apt to believe it if there was someone who had his DNA on her and had drugs in her system.

Do I believe that all of the women are making it up out of the blue? I don't believe Janice Dickinson at all. She has told many stories over time but all about how much she doesn't like him. So her motive to me would be easy to find.
I think that some may be remembering wrong. I believe in the 60's and 70's that drug use was rampant especially. I was alive then and remember well. So I think that these women are remembering through 2014 goggles not through 1960's goggles.

 

[Nova]

I don't think any one should ever be believed without having to have some evidence of the event. I think Children are the only group where you believe them first and then work backwards to make sure they are telling the truth, but adults have to have more than just because I said so.

You keep repeating this argument without acknowledging how many verdicts depend on the credibility of eyewitnesses--WITHOUT any forensic evidence to corroborate the testimony. No, eyewitness testimony is not perfect, which is why juries have to evaluate the credibility of the witness.

Jury instructions had voluminous charges on how a jury is to evaluate the credibility of witnesses and many, maybe even most, cases come down to which witnesses the jurors believe. One--and only one--of the things that bolster witness credibility is evidence that the defendant engaged in a pattern of behavior--and that takes into consideration how many people accuse the defendant of the same crime.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

You keep repeating this argument without acknowledging how many verdicts depend on the credibility of eyewitnesses--WITHOUT any forensic evidence to corroborate the testimony. No, eyewitness testimony is not perfect, which is why juries have to evaluate the credibility of the witness.

Jury instructions had voluminous charges on how a jury is to evaluate the credibility of witnesses and many, maybe even most, cases come down to which witnesses the jurors believe. One--and only one--of the things that bolster witness credibility is evidence that the defendant engaged in a pattern of behavior--and that takes into consideration how many people accuse the defendant of the same crime.

However most times when people are brought into court and charged there is other evidence against them. Physical evidence. Corroborating evidence. Putting him there are the scene.

IT is just not the same.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

However most times when people are brought into court and charged there is other evidence against them. Physical evidence. Corroborating evidence. Putting him there are the scene.

IT is just not the same.

Wow Scarlett, I am so glad to see you are starting to agree with me!

Judy Huth, one of the women Cosby attacked at the Playboy mansion, released a picture of herself with him there, thereby "putting him at the scene." Several of the other women have released similar photos as well that "put him at the scene."

Earlier you stated that such photos don't mean anything:

Actually, there are pictures of her with Cosby at the Playboy mansion. That doesn't prove the claims but it certainly supports them.

All that proves is that they were both there. Not that anything happened. I have a picture of me and Rod Stewart. It doesn't mean anything.

I clearly stated that it doesn't prove the claims but it certainly supports them. If you claimed Rod Stewart committed a crime against you, your photo would make your claims a bit more believable than no photo. It would certainly corroborate that the two of you were in the same place at the same time, and therefore the opportunity existed for the crime to take place.

It also proves that with a photo anyone can say anything about you and get people to believe it.

Glad to see you are starting to see the light, that evidence like these photos that put him at the scene is indeed corroborating evidence!

 

[BirdycatNY]

You keep repeating this argument without acknowledging how many verdicts depend on the credibility of eyewitnesses--WITHOUT any forensic evidence to corroborate the testimony. No, eyewitness testimony is not perfect, which is why juries have to evaluate the credibility of the witness.

Jury instructions had voluminous charges on how a jury is to evaluate the credibility of witnesses and many, maybe even most, cases come down to which witnesses the jurors believe. One--and only one--of the things that bolster witness credibility is evidence that the defendant engaged in a pattern of behavior--and that takes into consideration how many people accuse the defendant of the same crime.

I totally agree, Nova. Additionally, we're not in a court of law. My Lord, do we scrutinize to death the believability of women survivors who were raped during Rwanda genocide? Do we scrutinize news articles we read about women in India? Rape is used as a weapon during times of war and for criminals that use it for power. It's okay to be a critical thinker, but needlessly nit-picking news for evidentiary proof beyond a reasonable doubt when no one is in court? Please. We're hearing about an alleged rapist who just happens to be a comedian in the news, period. It's called public opinion.

But Scarpetta you may get your wish for evidence if LE investigation(s) comes up with evidence and probable cause within SOL, so BC can then be tried in a court of law. Let's hope if he actually committed the crimes that he's accused of, and LE investigation turns out fruitful that this goes to criminal court. You would want this to go to criminal court if PC and SOL requirements, right? So we can hear testimony and evidence? Because I don't think journalists who interview rape survivors in Rwanda or anywhere else asked or needed proof beyond reasonable doubt about rapes to write/post news article, some vetting but not scrutinizing needlessly. So I guess I am not sure why you carry on with evidence/proof standards from news since this isn't in a courtroom yet. Jmo/

 

[wendiesan]

There is a much more detailed story regarding the lead up to and follow up of the incident between Tony Hogue and BC regarding the JF Images booker and Beth Ferrier. The booker's comments at the end of the story show how hard it was for people to think BC was capable of doing anything so outrageous, and how their comments would lead someone to question their understanding of what had happened to them.

She continued: “I left NY the following day. Upon arriving home (I had moved back home with my parents to plan my wedding), the first words from my mom’s mouth were that Bill Cosby had called and that he wanted me to call him back. I did so, and he explained that he did not mean to be inappropriate and he was sorry if I was offended.

“I don’t recall my response, but I’m sure I placated him. I later told my boss about what had happened, but she told me that I probably misunderstood the situation. I believed this…. I really felt that I had made a wonderful, talented friend who saw that I was also particularly talented and special.”

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/02/i-saved-my-friend-from-bill-cosby.html

 

[Montjoy]

I would submit that any poster here who is inclined to dismiss the multitude of allegations by female victims of BC should check this case out --

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...or-allegedly-assaulting-women-on-the-job-rape

There are some parallels to be sure, but also some differences. Still, I'm guessing there are no rape kits, but there does not seem to be anyone who is disputing their allegations, perhaps because, Hey Hey Hey, it's not Dr. Huxtable who has been accused.

 

[BirdycatNY]

Bill Cosby: "I'm far from finished"
By Lauren Moraski CBS News
February 6, 2015, 3:37 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bill-cosby-im-far-from-finished/

"Dear Fans: GOD has Blessed me with a wonderful gift to share with all of you. For 53 years I have continued to master this gift, which heals the soul and warms hearts."

God giving "gift" comments re: comedy while being accused of sexual assault/drug-facilitated rape = BC deflection and swaying public perception (sounds like scuttling to me). It seems like he "mastered" more than just comedy and imo he's not a comic genius. As they say, "what a tangled web one weaves when the intent is to deceive [and/or deflect]..." That quote seems appropriate here or "you can fool some people all of the time, or people some of the time, but not all people all of the time." Jmo/

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I totally agree, Nova. Additionally, we're not in a court of law. My Lord, do we scrutinize to death the believability of women survivors who were raped during Rwanda genocide? Do we scrutinize news articles we read about women in India? Rape is used as a weapon during times of war and for criminals that use it for power. It's okay to be a critical thinker, but needlessly nit-picking news for evidentiary proof beyond a reasonable doubt when no one is in court? Please. We're hearing about an alleged rapist who just happens to be a comedian in the news, period. It's called public opinion.

But Scarpetta you may get your wish for evidence if LE investigation(s) comes up with evidence and probable cause within SOL, so BC can then be tried in a court of law. Let's hope if he actually committed the crimes that he's accused of, and LE investigation turns out fruitful that this goes to criminal court. You would want this to go to criminal court if PC and SOL requirements, right? So we can hear testimony and evidence? Because I don't think journalists who interview rape survivors in Rwanda or anywhere else asked or needed proof beyond reasonable doubt about rapes to write/post news article, some vetting but not scrutinizing needlessly. So I guess I am not sure why you carry on with evidence/proof standards from news since this isn't in a courtroom yet. Jmo/

"Let's hope he committed crimes? "
Wow..

But if it comes to court then we will see truth, not just personal stories. IT will help use see the truth of the matter and what really may have happened.
Like the vetting done in the fall that turned out to be lies and shut down a whole campus greek system?

People lie, Sadly they do. That can not be overlooked and assumed everyone is telling the truth.

 

[BirdycatNY]

"Let's hope he committed crimes? "
Wow...

GMAB If you misunderstood let me rephrase, let's hope that our justice system holds Bill Cosby accountable if he committed the alleged crimes and of course through proper criminal court proceedings/evidence/etc and it's not scuttled away due to SOL. And of course, people lie, but many of these alleged survivors have some form of corroboration through physical evidence or friends/witnesses, but that's more than I can say for BC at this point. By the way it's such a difficult choice forming an opinion in weighing options right now, alleged victims with some corroboration or alleged perpetrator who has said zip. For example, have BC attorneys provided proof that Goins and BC were never alone at any PB event? Tough talkers, aren't they? And as far as false college story, there are just as many if not more true rape college stories that don't make such a huff, but those doubters love to feed off the small percent of "false" stories. Case-by-Case basis and BC is no different. Jmo/

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

GMAB If you misunderstood let me rephrase, let's hope that our justice system holds Bill Cosby accountable if he committed the alleged crimes and of course through proper criminal court proceedings/evidence/etc and it's not scuttled away due to SOL. And of course, people lie, but many of these alleged survivors have some form of corroboration through physical evidence or friends/witnesses, but that's more than I can say for BC at this point. By the way it's such a difficult choice forming an opinion in weighing options right now, alleged victims with some corroboration or alleged perpetrator who has said zip. For example, have BC attorneys provided proof that Goins and BC were never alone at any PB event? Tough talkers, aren't they? And as far as false college story, there are just as many if not more true rape college stories that don't make such a huff, but those doubters love to feed off the small percent of "false" stories. Case-by-Case basis and BC is no different. Jmo/

Things are not scuttled away due to SOL. There is a reason for it. It is to protect people. Innocent people. The whole point of our justice system is to protect the innocent and punish the guilty and to make sure that line is as clear as we can get it. It is not perfect.

The problem is people do lie. And if women don't want to report the crime then there is nothing that can be done on their behalf.
Men deserve to be treated fairly and justly too. If they are accused brought to trial and convicted then punish them, but there is no trial here. When there is I will weigh the evidence. But for now there is nothing there that would have me convicting anyone.

 

[BirdycatNY]

Things are not scuttled away due to SOL. There is a reason for it. It is to protect people. Innocent people. The whole point of our justice system is to protect the innocent and punish the guilty and to make sure that line is as clear as we can get it. It is not perfect.

The problem is people do lie. And if women don't want to report the crime then there is nothing that can be done on their behalf.
Men deserve to be treated fairly and justly too. If they are accused brought to trial and convicted then punish them, but there is no trial here. When there is I will weigh the evidence. But for now there is nothing there that would have me convicting anyone.

Respectfully, I do not need a refresher on SOL rules or rules of evidence. There is also good reason to change SOL rules in cases like sexual assault too. There is not enough evidence within the SOL for a criminal trial. But there certainly is evidence if these women were to testify to same in court and corroborating evidence should it be admitted in court, but you can choose to see information however you want. There is cause for concern and I hope that LE investigation is thorough/ Jmo

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Respectfully, I do not need a refresher on SOL rules or rules of evidence. There is also good reason to change SOL rules in cases like sexual assault too. There is not enough evidence within the SOL for a criminal trial. But there certainly is evidence if these women were to testify to same in court and corroborating evidence should it be admitted in court, but you can choose to see information however you want. There is cause for concern and I hope that LE investigation is thorough/ Jmo

I don't believe there is a good reason to change SOL laws in rape cases. They already have exceptions that have to do with people being able to report rape that happened to them as a child. But as a rule there is no way they should change the laws for rape. What if someone from your brother, father, bf, husbands past wanted to show up and make trouble 20 years after they dated. And came out and accused them. Should they have to go through a trial and be charged??
I think that they will not find anything that will help a case.