Raven's Health

[Jenifred]

You're right, JG. That's why nearly all suicides of Bi-Polar individuals occur during a manic phase rather than during a depressive phase. It is a highly agitated state.

That's suicide, what about murders? Maybe there's a difference between hurting yourself and hurting others?

 

[bluegirl]

BG: How long ago was Raven diagnosed? Was this something Raven talked about? Did his family know about his condition?

For several years. I know he didn't like for people to know. Yes his family definitely knew about it.
I he was not the same person when he was off his meds.

 

[juliagoulia]

That's suicide, what about murders? Maybe there's a difference between hurting yourself and hurting others?

I am not a doctor and no statistic is 100%, but it's the same thing. During a depressive phase, most bi-polars simply don't have the requisite energy to act out against themselves or others. I know it sounds strange that someone who is "up" would kill themselves or hurt others...but that's generally how it works.

 

[newkid]

And in that manic frenzy, terrible decisions can be made.

Things that make sense to an individual in a manic phase are not things that would seem reasonable to the average person. I have known an individual in a manic phase who buried their clothes because they felt they no longer needed them. It made perfect sense to that person at the time. Another individual walked out of their job and disappeared, surfacing several months later in Sweden.

I can see how someone in a manic phase might murder his wife and have it make perfect sense to him at the time. Still, having bipolar disorder in NO way excuses the actions of these individuals.

 

[newkid]

That's why nearly all suicides of Bi-Polar individuals occur during a manic phase rather than during a depressive phase.

Just curious about the statistics, the studies I've found on medline state just the opposite. Do you have a link? Maybe I'm using the wrong search parameters? Thanks

 

[juliagoulia]

Just curious about the statistics, the studies I've found on medline state just the opposite. Do you have a link? Maybe I'm using the wrong search parameters? Thanks

A friend of mine is bipolar and I was quoting the statistical information his doctor provided. However, there is lots of supporting info out there. I've listed two below.

Keep in mind there are different kinds of Bipolar and no one here has posted with specific information about which type Raven had, or to what degree he suffered from it. The information we have is that he had a bad temper, was often a bad sport (charged with assaulting a referee, church b-ball incident, etc.) which makes me think his manic episodes (if any) were peppered with hostility and anger.

I guess without confirmation and an official diagnosis, all of this is O/T...but here goes:

http://www.medem.com/MedLB/article_detaillb.cfm?article_ID=ZZZX77O3DMC&sub_cat=46

People with bipolar disorder may consider suicide during manic as well as depressive episodes. ... and people whose mania is characterized by intense anger and grandiosity are not only at risk for suicide, they also are more likely to harm someone else.


http://my.webmd.com/content/article/102/106781.htm?z=4249_00000_0000_f2_03
Under risk factors for suicide:
A sudden switch from being very sad to being very calm or appearing to be happy

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Things that make sense to an individual in a manic phase are not things that would seem reasonable to the average person. I have known an individual in a manic phase who buried their clothes because they felt they no longer needed them. It made perfect sense to that person at the time. Another individual walked out of their job and disappeared, surfacing several months later in Sweden.

Frighteningly bizarre. So very, very sad.

I can see how someone in a manic phase might murder his wife and have it make perfect sense to him at the time. Still, having bipolar disorder in NO way excuses the actions of these individuals.

I totally agree with both points. Well said.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I guess without confirmation and an official diagnosis, all of this is O/T...but here goes:

http://www.medem.com/MedLB/article_detaillb.cfm?article_ID=ZZZX77O3DMC&sub_cat=46

People with bipolar disorder may consider suicide during manic as well as depressive episodes. ... and people whose mania is characterized by intense anger and grandiosity are not only at risk for suicide, they also are more likely to harm someone else.

Interesting information, julia. Thanks for the links.

Intense grandiosity, huh? Ducati, VX ... heck, even his underwear had to come from REI. God forbid he should buy the store brand at Target. Grandiosity even if it meant digging that financial hole deeper and deeper, to the point of not even being able to pay rent.

If Raven didn't commit this horrible crime, I certainly hope that he is taking his medications at this point, and working with a counselor who can help him to hopefully get his life under control. You can almost see the bottom falling out as you read about his life and his decisions.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Terminatrixator, I hope you don't mind but I'm placing your link here as well. I think that this might be a good place to gather any information we find on mania as it might relate to this case.

Thanks again for the link!
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/reprint/318/7193/1240.pdf

 

[cappuccina]

....the dude, with the help of a lawyer, is working on his insanity defense...

...makes me ill...

 

[ewwwinteresting]

....the dude, with the help of a lawyer, is working on his insanity defense...

...makes me ill...

Even if raven is not guilty, it seems insane the way he is acting after the murder. Not saying anything, not crying out for help in finding the monster that did this to his wife, not putting up a reward for any information leading to the arrest of the murderer, having no memorial site set up for the mother of his son, and moving not only from the state but across to the other side of the country (far away from any investigation)!

 

[newkid]

Even if raven is not guilty, it seems insane the way he is acting after the murder. Not saying anything, not crying out for help in finding the monster that did this to his wife, not putting up a reward for any information leading to the arrest of the murderer, having no memorial site set up for the mother of his son, and moving not only from the state but across to the other side of the country (far away from any investigation)!

My only thought is that if Raven did not kill his wife, he's trying not to act like Mark Hacking and Scott Peterson. Then again, if Raven did do it, maybe he's trying not to act like Mark Hacking and Scott Peterson.

 

[chicoliving]

The comparison to Hacking and Peterson reminds me that all of these murders happened in the home.....Janet is the only victim of these three that was found in the home although all three homes were searced and evidence obtained from all three. The Peterson case was all circumstantial evidence, no direct evidence like in Hacking and Abaroa.......

Our poster midnite who helped us in the Peterson case with CA law said something about the body and the need to remove it and hide it is where they all get caught up....its not the killing that poses the problem but the removal and disposal......that pesky body is not so easy to hide in such a manner that it won't be found.

Hmmmm this is a new way for me to look at this case..

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Our poster midnite who helped us in the Peterson case with CA law said something about the body and the need to remove it and hide it is where they all get caught up....its not the killing that poses the problem but the removal and disposal......that pesky body is not so easy to hide in such a manner that it won't be found.

That's an interesting observation. Had Hacking or Peterson not moved the bodies, I wonder how long it would have taken for their arrests, or if they might not have gathered enough evidence to arrest them at all.

 

[terminatrixator]

One thing about Janet NOT being moved and the other cases, look at Mark Hacking, he had to get rid of his bed, his downfall, he was suppose to be out looking for his wife yet he went out to purchase a new bed - why? The blood, of course.

Janet was stabbed, hence blood, blood trail, etc. If Janet ended up reported missing, the police come in, you can scrub all day, but you are going to miss some trace evidence of the blood, which would point back to the fact she was murdered in her home.

Another thing, how to move the body with Kaiden there, and not alert suspicion.

Laci was strangled, no blood, easier to move.

I think someone knows a heck of a lot more about this than they are saying.

 

[L L & S]

My only thought is that if Raven did not kill his wife, he's trying not to act like Mark Hacking and Scott Peterson. Then again, if Raven did do it, maybe he's trying not to act like Mark Hacking and Scott Peterson.

I had to read this post three times to make it work in my head.... LOL... but I tend to totally agree with it.