RDI poll/the Stines

[BrendaStar]

The Burke plus Doug Stein theory has always been intriguing. The last place the Ramseys stopped was at the Steins so they easily could have picked up Doug. More mysterious was that both the Steins gave up exceedingly good jobs in Boulder to follow the Ramseys to Atlanta. Now why would they want to do that? Except perhaps to cover for their son?

There also was no video camera footage from the Ramsey Christmas. Plus John Ramsey's cell phone records were non existent for the month of December (something I doubt could be accomplished now). So put it all together and you have a great big MAYBE.

 

[otg]

From the wonderful "ACandyRose" (http://www.acandyrose.com/s-birthday-patsy-1996.htm):

June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane (Patsy Birthday)

0237
10 MIKE KANE: And how long were you intending
11 to stay in Charlevoix?
12 JOHN RAMSEY: When it comes to the days, I
13 don't remember. I believe we were leaving for this
14 Big Red Boat thing on Saturday morning, and we
15 were planning to come back on Friday from
16 Charlevoix.
17 MIKE KANE: Okay.
18 JOHN RAMSEY: and I think the 26th was
19 Tuesday or Wednesday. I don't remember.
20 LOU SMIT: Maybe we should look at a
21 calendar.
22 MIKE KANE: Yeah.
23 BRYAN MORGAN: There are records of the
24 Big Red Boat reservations.
25 JOHN RAMSEY: We had bought and paid for

0237
1 the tickets.
2 LOU SMIT: We'll nail it down.
3 BRYAN MORGAN: The 26th was a Thursday.
4 JOHN RAMSEY: Thursday.
5 MIKE KANE: So Wednesday was Christmas.
6 JOHN RAMSEY: Well that doesn't make sense,
7 then. Let's see. So the 26th was Thursday, so we
8 would have gone on Thursday morning. I don't think
9 we were going to stay one night. I'd have to look
10 and say when the Big Red Boat --
11 MIKE KANE: I guess Patsy's birthday was on
12 the --
13 JOHN RAMSEY: Her birthday was on the 29th.
14 I thought we were going to be there already. I
15 don't remember. But we can figure it out.
16 MIKE KANE: So you were going to fly back
17 to Jeffco?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
19 MIKE KANE: The day before you went to --
20 I guess you had to go to Florida to get there?
21 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, we had to go to Orlando
22 to take a bus, from Orlando to Cape Canaveral and
23 take a bus.
24 MIKE KANE: So you would fly back in the
25 day before, fly out, I think you said TWA?

0238
1 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
2 MIKE KANE: And you're leaving on the boat
3 that day or did you fly down and then you would
4 leave the next day?
5 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I think we were doing
6 this boom, boom, boom. Then we were going to be on
7 the boat that night.
8 MIKE KANE: And how long a trip was that
9 going to be?

0238
10 JOHN RAMSEY: It was maybe four days. It
11 was over through New Year's Eve. I don't know if
12 we were came back New Year's day or the next day,
13 but it was a four-day trip.
14 MIKE KANE: And then would you come straight
15 back here?
16 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
(SNIP)

0295
16 MIKE KANE: And this year, in 1996, you
17 said you weren't going to have it. Was there a
18 discussion about having it and you decided --
19 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, we talked about, you
20 know, should we have a Christmas party or should
21 we just have this big birthday party; and we were
22 going to leave town the next day; and the boat
23 trip. And we said, we won't really do that. I
24 think we were going to invite one or two couples
25 over with their kids and just have kind of a real

0296
1 small family thing. That was the extent of it.

(SNIP)

0299
20 MIKE KANE: Yesterday in the room we had
21 some confusion about when you were leaving. Well
22 we know it was the 26th that you were leaving for
23 Charlevoix. And we found out, I guess, that was a
24 Thursday, when you were going on the Big Red Boat.
25 Did you have an opportunity to talk about that?

0300
1 JOHN RAMSEY: Well we talked a little bit
2 about it last night, because I was amazed of how
3 poorly our memory of things like that. Patsy
4 didn't remember it either, :floorlaugh: but it's easy to figure
5 out, because we lot purchased the tickets through
6 our travel agent and so forth.
7 BRYAN MORGAN: I may be able to shorten
8 that because I know that I have seen the
9 reservations. So I would be glad to send you
10 copies.
11 MIKE KANE: Okay. That would clear that
12 right up. Great. Where did the idea of going on
13 the Big Red Boat, how did that come about?
14 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, we actually that was
15 fairly well in advance. We had never been on a
16 cruise. Christmas is a tough time for us because I
17 think we lost Beth in January, and we liked to
18 kind of have things to do and planned.
19 So we thought, that would be fun thing to do, a
20 family thing. And we had never been on a cruise,
21 and going to the Big Red Boat and have fun with
22 the kids. So we just planned it and it was kind of
23 a first. Because I'd never done something like
24 that. And it was planned well in advance and we
25 got a package deal and it was TWA that was going

0301
1 through St. Louis, or something like that. Which I
2 was kind of nervous about, because I could see us
3 changing planes and missing planes. But it was a
4 cheap airfare.
5 MIKE KANE: You would rather have flown
6 yourself?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Or rather flown nonstop to
8 Orlando or something from Denver. I just get very
9 nervous changing planes. But yeah, it was a trip
10 together. We had a very full, a very fun season
11 planned out.
12 MIKE KANE: Who made those arrangements?
13 JOHN RAMSEY: Patsy made the reservations?
14 MIKE KANE: Was it through the travel agent?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: The travel agent. Actually
16 I think I remember calling Walt Disney directly. I
17 think I might have gotten the number out of a
18 magazine or something. Because I think I remember
19 joining the Disney or somebody like that directly.
20 Because we had the option of going to Disney World
21 for a day or two, and we no, because Patsy didn't
22 want to. I Remember.
23 MIKE KANE: And then the trip to Charlevoix,
24 was that planned a lot in advance?
25 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, fairly. Not months

0302
1 in advance, at least a month in advance. We had to
2 get tickets for the kids and figure out their
3 schedule and get Mike Archuleta lined up. So it
4 was planned. For sure three or four weeks in
5 advance.

.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I'm so confused. They were leaving for Charlevoix on December 26 and then they were coming back to Colorado and then off to Florida? And John doesn't even remember how many days they were supposed to stay in Charlevoix? I don't even understand why they would even go to Charlevoix. It had to be like 5 degrees there and it was after Christmas. It just sounds so tiring. You have a plane ride to Charlevoix (switching planes in Minneapolis, right?), just spending a couple days there, and then a plane ride back to Colorado. Then, another plane ride all the way down to Orlando. And then a bus ride and then a cruise?

 

[CathyR]

I'm so confused. They were leaving for Charlevoix on December 26 and then they were coming back to Colorado and then off to Florida? And John doesn't even remember how many days they were supposed to stay in Charlevoix? I don't even understand why they would even go to Charlevoix. It had to be like 5 degrees there and it was after Christmas. It just sounds so tiring. You have a plane ride to Charlevoix (switching planes in Minneapolis, right?), just spending a couple days there, and then a plane ride back to Colorado. Then, another plane ride all the way down to Orlando. And then a bus ride and then a cruise?

They were supposed to meet Melinda, and JAR there in Michigan. I am assuming the whole crew would fly back to Boulder then take the TWA flight. I think Melinda's boyfriend was going too.

 

[joeskidbeck]

I'm so confused. They were leaving for Charlevoix on December 26 and then they were coming back to Colorado and then off to Florida? And John doesn't even remember how many days they were supposed to stay in Charlevoix? I don't even understand why they would even go to Charlevoix. It had to be like 5 degrees there and it was after Christmas. It just sounds so tiring. You have a plane ride to Charlevoix (switching planes in Minneapolis, right?), just spending a couple days there, and then a plane ride back to Colorado. Then, another plane ride all the way down to Orlando. And then a bus ride and then a cruise?

Their flight to Charlevoix was on their private plane. John's older kids flew commercial so they had to change planes in Minneapolis. I believe this is where the Ramsey plane would have picked them up for the rest of the trip to Charlevoix. So, for the Ramsey family of 4, at least, it wasn't that big of a deal. I do believe Patsy was stressed to the max with all these plans and I don't believe any of it was her idea. Maybe John's way of not having time to think of Beth, so Patsy just went along with it.

 

[Toltec]

According to Patsy, the story she told was she had asked the Stines if they could come to their home and Susan Stine assumed it was just for dinner. Stines did not know the Ramseys would stay indefinately.

I cannot believe that Doug and Susan Stine would leave their jobs and move to Atlanta, unless they had a shared secret with the Ramseys. Could it be possible that their son was involved in this crime?

The poster BlueCrab had a Doug and Burke theory and I hope he is still around to post.

 

[DeeDee249]

According to Patsy, the story she told was she had asked the Stines if they could come to their home and Susan Stine assumed it was just for dinner. Stines did not know the Ramseys would stay indefinately.

I cannot believe that Doug and Susan Stine would leave their jobs and move to Atlanta, unless they had a shared secret with the Ramseys. Could it be possible that their son was involved in this crime?

The poster BlueCrab had a Doug and Burke theory and I hope he is still around to post.

The idea that the S's son may have been at the Rs that night (possibly as a take-along friend for the trip to Charlevoix) is held by some people. If so, he could have been involved along with BR.

 

[CathyR]

If the friendship soured so much as to cause the Stine's any suspicion I'm sure they contacted the BPD with their own lawyer who threatened to sue the BPD and State if the information given to police by the Stine's was made public until such a time as they would be needed to give testimony at trial. A protective custody kind of thing, common practice by DA's, to protect witnesses who fear reprisals.

 

[Bobbarita]

According to Patsy, the story she told was she had asked the Stines if they could come to their home and Susan Stine assumed it was just for dinner. Stines did not know the Ramseys would stay indefinately.

I cannot believe that Doug and Susan Stine would leave their jobs and move to Atlanta, unless they had a shared secret with the Ramseys. Could it be possible that their son was involved in this crime?

The poster BlueCrab had a Doug and Burke theory and I hope he is still around to post.

That's a riot! Imagine someone asking if they could come to your home (for dinner) and then never leaving! Reminds me about what the shop teacher said about the word ASSUME...

 

[otg]

I'm so confused. They were leaving for Charlevoix on December 26 and then they were coming back to Colorado and then off to Florida? And John doesn't even remember how many days they were supposed to stay in Charlevoix? I don't even understand why they would even go to Charlevoix. It had to be like 5 degrees there and it was after Christmas. It just sounds so tiring. You have a plane ride to Charlevoix (switching planes in Minneapolis, right?), just spending a couple days there, and then a plane ride back to Colorado. Then, another plane ride all the way down to Orlando. And then a bus ride and then a cruise?

Yup. His words:

"I think we were doing this boom, boom, boom. Then we were going to be on the boat that night."
.

 

[otg]

The idea that the S's son may have been at the Rs that night (possibly as a take-along friend for the trip to Charlevoix) is held by some people. If so, he could have been involved along with BR.

I'm beginning to wonder more and more about that, DD. I'm still catching up on things that went on during my absence (I stopped following so close around 2001). Apparently Susan Stine really earned her reputation as the Ramsey pitbull during that time. She even posed in emails as Chief Beckner (info from ACR)? She also went on the forums (I wonder what hat she used) and found who was sympathetic to the Ramseys, and was the person who introduced Patsy to Jammie (SB). I guess this is not new information to a lot here; but it is to me, and it's really making me wonder what would put someone in the tank so much that she would go to the lengths she has gone to help out the R's.

:waitasec:

BTW, did you know that Glen Stine was the youngest person to have to give a DNA swab for investigators?
.

 

[BrendaStar]

I guess this is not new information to a lot here; but it is to me, and it's really making me wonder what would put someone in the tank so much that she would go to the lengths she has gone to help out the R's.


I believe Susan Stine had an important job in administration at the University of Colorado. Why would she leave that to go to Atlanta with the Ramseys? Her husband had a big job also. None of their picking up and leaving has ever made any sense....unless their son was involved.

 

[UKGuy]

I guess this is not new information to a lot here; but it is to me, and it's really making me wonder what would put someone in the tank so much that she would go to the lengths she has gone to help out the R's.


I believe Susan Stine had an important job in administration at the University of Colorado. Why would she leave that to go to Atlanta with the Ramseys? Her husband had a big job also. None of their picking up and leaving has ever made any sense....unless their son was involved.

BrendaStar,
Well the son could be involved. To me it looks a long shot, I forget what age GS was back then, under ten? Anyway as far as I know there was no Stine dna found on JonBenet, or for that matter any of Burke's dna? So it could be JonBenet was cleaned up very well, only leaving the dna and fibers from the stagers?

The Stine's behaviour in this case is another crazy item that looks like really whacky behaviour, nice middle class people become homicide suspect assistants, LOL!


.

 

[Flatlander]

Not sure why this is particular to RDI. He surely remembers something about that night. Depending on how much he actually saw and heard, his memories may be inaccurate or unclear. OR they may me crystal clear. We simply have no way o knowing. I had read that as he grew up, went to college, etc, he shunned anyone who he felt pumped him for info on his sister's murder or who seemed to be interested in him simply because of it. I have never seen any RDI state that BR was sent to a shrink to forget what happened. We don't know if he saw a shrink at all, except for the one he saw right after the murder.

Here's JR talking about Burke seeing a shrink and it was posted earlier this month:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-yZuomuias&feature=relmfu"]Was Burke Ramsey a Suspect in JonBenet's Death? - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Flatlander]

I mean the pineapple was found on the table in the Ramsey home. But I guess they could have brought it from the Stines, a bit farfetched though.

Accoding to ST ITRMI pg 215:

It was on that table that police had found the porcelain bowl containing fresh pineapple and bearing the fingerprints of Patsy and Burke. To me, that connected Patsy to pineapple, and pineapple was found in JB's stomach, and one plus one equals two. I came to believe Patsy had given JB pineapple that night.

Our experts studied the pineapple in the stomach and reported that it was fresh-cut pineapple, consistent down to the rind with what had been found in that bowl. It was solid proof that it wasn't canned pineapple, and what are the chances that an intruder would have brought in a fresh pineapple to cut up for his victum?

So, JB had to have been awake sometime that night to consume the pineapple before she was murdered.

 

[UKGuy]

Accoding to ST ITRMI pg 215:

It was on that table that police had found the porcelain bowl containing fresh pineapple and bearing the fingerprints of Patsy and Burke. To me, that connected Patsy to pineapple, and pineapple was found in JB's stomach, and one plus one equals two. I came to believe Patsy had given JB pineapple that night.

Our experts studied the pineapple in the stomach and reported that it was fresh-cut pineapple, consistent down to the rind with what had been found in that bowl. It was solid proof that it wasn't canned pineapple, and what are the chances that an intruder would have brought in a fresh pineapple to cut up for his victum?

So, JB had to have been awake sometime that night to consume the pineapple before she was murdered.

Flatlander,

So, JB had to have been awake sometime that night to consume the pineapple before she was murdered.

Sure, and what about Burke, was he sipping tea as JonBenet snacked pineapple?

Another staging error here, they left the whole breakfast bar scenario in place, lock stock and barrel, why so?


.

 

[Flatlander]

Flatlander,

Sure, and what about Burke, was he sipping tea as JonBenet snacked pineapple?

Another staging error here, they left the whole breakfast bar scenario in place, lock stock and barrel, why so?


.

I believe that quite possibly Patsy knew nothing about the pineapple and tea.
The only thing that really connects this part of the house to whatever took place that night was of coarse the pineapple and tea and the Sunroom light being turned off as reported by a neighbor. The neighbor said that light was always on.
Seems most of the staging took place in the kitchen, JB room, basement and perhaps the butler pantry.
Leads me to believe that JB and BR were up together that night just like I have said before they were to excited to sleep.

 

[UKGuy]

I believe that quite possibly Patsy knew nothing about the pineapple and tea.
The only thing that really connects this part of the house to whatever took place that night was of coarse the pineapple and tea and the Sunroom light being turned off as reported by a neighbor. The neighbor said that light was always on.
Seems most of the staging took place in the kitchen, JB room, basement and perhaps the butler pantry.
Leads me to believe that JB and BR were up together that night just like I have said before they were to excited to sleep.

Flatlander,

I believe that quite possibly Patsy knew nothing about the pineapple and tea.

Yet her fingerprint is on the bowl?

For me it is the time available for staging, and the Ramsey version of events, that seems to indicate that not cleaning up the breakfast bar suggests it was all done within a small time-frame?

 

[Chrishope]

Flatlander,

Sure, and what about Burke, was he sipping tea as JonBenet snacked pineapple?

Another staging error here, they left the whole breakfast bar scenario in place, lock stock and barrel, why so?


.

Was it a staging error? It goes with the idea that JB was "lured" from her bedroom and fed a snack by the "intruder". This is no sillier than a lot of other stuff the Rs want LE to believe.

 

[Chrishope]

Flatlander,

Yet her fingerprint is on the bowl?

For me it is the time available for staging, and the Ramsey version of events, that seems to indicate that not cleaning up the breakfast bar suggests it was all done within a small time-frame?

How small do you estimate the time frame? How long would it take to put the pineapple in the 'fridge and the tea glass in the sink?