Re: Obsession with movies

[MurriFlower]

Immediate execution by beheading of a six year old child isn't a meme. Where did THAT come from? I've looked up immediate execution by beheading and found Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran in present day, and then Europe and Asia a century ago. Despite all the carnage, the beheading of a 6 year old as a form of immediate execution has, well, no precedent.

Well, despite what the RN says, she was actually executed by garrotte.

The last execution by garrotte in Spain was in 1974, when Salvador Puig Antich, a Catalan anarchist and member of the MIL (Movimiento Ibérico de Liberación) was executed by the Francoist regime. Following his death another group, The Groupes d'action révolutionnaire internationalistes (GARI) were formed. From this sprang the leftist militant group Action directe, formed by for MIL member Jean-Marc Rouillan. "Individual reclamation" (robbing the rich to give to the poor) and "expropriations" (usually bank robbery) were popular passtimes of these groups. "In the 20th century, Lucio Urtubia, a Spanish practitioner of individual reclamation, stole millions from Citibank by forging traveler's checks. Between 1993 and 2007, Jaime Giménez Arbe robbed 36 banks in Spain, stealing more than €700,000 euros in what he described as an effort "to liberate the Spanish people" from the banking sector."

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Well, despite what the RN says, she was actually executed by garrotte.

Wellll, when we've decided (?) an intruder killed JBR then the RN becomes hugely more significant. And as I've said before, even now in 2010 nobody has been able to factually rule out even one aspect of the RN. For all we know the RN author knows about execution by beheading first hand. Its interesting that this doesn't belong to the generic kidnap for ransom movie jargon that fills the rest of the note.

I know you're a believer that a local or household helper killed JBR or aided in the killing, but really the RN is way too politically complex for that. Unless JR and PR were really unlucky and hired an extremist. And if there were an extremist BPD would've been on it. Dogs tend to bark before they bite.

 

[MurriFlower]

Wellll, when we've decided (?) an intruder killed JBR then the RN becomes hugely more significant. And as I've said before, even now in 2010 nobody has been able to factually rule out even one aspect of the RN. For all we know the RN author knows about execution by beheading first hand. Its interesting that this doesn't belong to the generic kidnap for ransom movie jargon that fills the rest of the note.

Well, I've decided an 'intruder' killed JBR, assuming that is the opposite position to RDI.

I know you're a believer that a local or household helper killed JBR or aided in the killing, but really the RN is way too politically complex for that. Unless JR and PR were really unlucky and hired an extremist. And if there were an extremist BPD would've been on it.

Yep, I think my theory is that someone 'close' to the R's was involved. LHP jumps out, so she is in the No 1 position.

BUT you keep reminding me about the content of the RN, HOTYH so, ideally, I'd like to 'marry' these ideas together.

Let's just say that someone close to the household was 'befriended' by a charismatic member of a SFF (a la Patty Hurst). This is why I'd like to know more about the babysitter/nanny and her 'mission for the Church' of 18 months. There are other 'possibles', but limited knowledge makes these difficult to research.

Do you agree that aspects of the crime require 'inside' knowledge of the family and house?
Do you believe that a member of a SFF could have gained this knowlege in an afternoon?
Ultimately, do you believe that the killing of JBR was the only intention, and if so, why the RN?
What did the SFF gain by the killing?

Dogs tend to bark before they bite

You've not been bitten by too many dogs then. Most of the real biters sneak up behind.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

You've not been bitten by too many dogs then. Most of the real biters sneak up behind.

Wrong. German Shepard, who barked, growled and bared teeth first attacking from the front. Terrier, who barked like hell first, attacking from the side. (and no, not at the same time!).

I take it YOU haven't been bitten once, right?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Well, I've decided an 'intruder' killed JBR, assuming that is the opposite position to RDI.

Good.


Yep, I think my theory is that someone 'close' to the R's was involved. LHP jumps out, so she is in the No 1 position.

Probably not.

BUT you keep reminding me about the content of the RN, HOTYH so, ideally, I'd like to 'marry' these ideas together.

Let's just say that someone close to the household was 'befriended' by a charismatic member of a SFF (a la Patty Hurst). This is why I'd like to know more about the babysitter/nanny and her 'mission for the Church' of 18 months. There are other 'possibles', but limited knowledge makes these difficult to research.

Completely possible. I agree limited knowledge, but what to 'missions for the Church' typically entail?

Do you agree that aspects of the crime require 'inside' knowledge of the family and house? Yes.
Do you believe that a member of a SFF could have gained this knowlege in an afternoon? Yes. No more than would be needed by a burglar.
Ultimately, do you believe that the killing of JBR was the only intention, and if so, why the RN? The RN combined with the killing of JBR could've been the intention. It got a lot of press.
What did the SFF gain by the killing? .

I would guess publicity and probably be right. Throw in satisfaction and revenge.

 

[DeeDee249]

I would guess publicity and probably be right.

But publicity is only publicity if the person(s) seeking it is identified. That's why acts of terrorism are quickly "claimed" by terrorist organizations quick to take "credit" for the attack. And sometimes they take credit even when they haven't done it.
In this case, no SFF came forward.

Also, if the SFF "respected your business but not the country that it serves" why not target the country? Why target the child of someone whose business you claim to respect?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

But publicity is only publicity if the person(s) seeking it is identified. That's why acts of terrorism are quickly "claimed" by terrorist organizations quick to take "credit" for the attack. And sometimes they take credit even when they haven't done it.
In this case, no SFF came forward.

Also, if the SFF "respected your business but not the country that it serves" why not target the country? Why target the child of someone whose business you claim to respect?

There's some huge assumptions here.

Actually, what I've found is that the credit for many terrorist incidents are not quickly claimed. Further, the assertion that no SFF quickly came forward, while partially true, provides no indication that a SFF or LFF will or will not come forward in the future.

I said partially true because the credit seems to have been given to SBTC whoever SBTC is. Just because DeeDee doesn't know what SBTC means doesn't mean the RN author didn't receive the amount of publicity he wanted, or had no audience, at that time.

Its called latency.

 

[DeeDee249]

There's some huge assumptions here.

Actually, what I've found is that the credit for many terrorist incidents are not quickly claimed. Further, the assertion that no SFF quickly came forward, while partially true, provides no indication that a SFF or LFF will or will not come forward in the future.

I said partially true because the credit seems to have been given to SBTC whoever SBTC is. Just because DeeDee doesn't know what SBTC means doesn't mean the RN author didn't receive the amount of publicity he wanted, or had no audience, at that time.

Its called latency.

I'd say DeeDee isn't the only one who doesn't know what SBTC stands for. Do you know?
And we don't know for a fact that SBTC is actually the SFF or if it has some other meaning.
14 years is a pretty unrealistic stretch for a terrorist group (or SFF) to wait to claim responsibility.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I'd say DeeDee isn't the only one who doesn't know what SBTC stands for. Do you know? Of course not. I can take a guess, though.
And we don't know for a fact that SBTC is actually the SFF or if it has some other meaning. We don't know for a fact that its not the SFF or that it doesn't help to acquire an audience. As it is right now, the RN is tagged with a unique identifier. Why? (asked in the context of IDI so please spare the party line)
14 years is a pretty unrealistic stretch for a terrorist group (or SFF) to wait to claim responsibility.

I agree the impact goes down with time, by now nobody cares that much. Heck I don't think it would even make the headlines.

 

[MurriFlower]

Let's just say that someone close to the household was 'befriended' by a charismatic member of a SFF (a la Patty Hurst). This is why I'd like to know more about the babysitter/nanny and her 'mission for the Church' of 18 months. There are other 'possibles', but limited knowledge makes these difficult to research.

Completely possible. I agree limited knowledge, but what to 'missions for the Church' typically entail?

She was apparently a member of the same Episcopalian Church as the Rs. I don't know much about Episcopalians (don't have em here), but they are an offshoot of the Anglican Church and have 'partnerships' in missions around the world.

It seems they have Missions in East Africa, West Africa, Asia, Latin America, Central America, North America, Caribbean, Europe, Middle East amongs others. Basically, name a political 'hot spot' and you'll find a Mission.

Just where she actually went for that 18 months is a matter for us to speculate.

 

[DeeDee249]

She was apparently a member of the same Episcopalian Church as the Rs. I don't know much about Episcopalians (don't have em here), but they are an offshoot of the Anglican Church and have 'partnerships' in missions around the world.

It seems they have Missions in East Africa, West Africa, Asia, Latin America, Central America, North America, Caribbean, Europe, Middle East amongs others. Basically, name a political 'hot spot' and you'll find a Mission.

Just where she actually went for that 18 months is a matter for us to speculate.

ALL religions have fundamentalists and radicals, though I must say that the Episcopalians (my daughter and her family are Episcopalians) are not known for extreme beliefs or actions. And no religion that I know of, with the exception of Santeria, espouse child ritual killings, though there are other faiths that look on the killing of children as acceptable if the parents of those children are guilty of something warranting it.

 

[DeeDee249]

I agree the impact goes down with time, by now nobody cares that much. Heck I don't think it would even make the headlines.

We would care.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

We would care.

We would care if what?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

ALL religions have fundamentalists and radicals, though I must say that the Episcopalians (my daughter and her family are Episcopalians) are not known for extreme beliefs or actions. And no religion that I know of, with the exception of Santeria, espouse child ritual killings, though there are other faiths that look on the killing of children as acceptable if the parents of those children are guilty of something warranting it.

Really? Like who?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

She was apparently a member of the same Episcopalian Church as the Rs. I don't know much about Episcopalians (don't have em here), but they are an offshoot of the Anglican Church and have 'partnerships' in missions around the world.

It seems they have Missions in East Africa, West Africa, Asia, Latin America, Central America, North America, Caribbean, Europe, Middle East amongs others. Basically, name a political 'hot spot' and you'll find a Mission.

Just where she actually went for that 18 months is a matter for us to speculate.

Was her handwriting checked? Exemplars, right and left handed word for word ransom note?

 

[DeeDee249]

Really? Like who?

Radical Islam regards the deaths of all those considered to be infidels or occupiers of their lands as justifiable. In places like Sierra Leone and Somalia, children and their parents are killed simply because they belong to a different tribe or different sect.

 

[DeeDee249]

We would care if what?

You said by now, nobody cares. We (who are posting here) would still care (about this case and any developments in it) no matter how much time has passed.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Radical Islam regards the deaths of all those considered to be infidels or occupiers of their lands as justifiable. In places like Sierra Leone and Somalia, children and their parents are killed simply because they belong to a different tribe or different sect.

Thats not what you said before. You had said that in some faiths, children are killed for the crimes of their parents. What faith is that? Do you have a single example or source?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

You said by now, nobody cares. We (who are posting here) would still care (about this case and any developments in it) no matter how much time has passed.

I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure the context of our conversation was lost somehow. What I said was 'impact is lost over time, by now nobody cares that much, Heck I don't think it would even make the headlines [if somebody came forward now and claimed responsibility].

Your answer seems to be that at least we who post here would still care, if somebody came forward now and claimed responsibility. Is this really right?

 

[BBB167893]

Is there a meme in the RN that doesn't relate to a techno-crime drama?

Immediate execution by beheading of a six year old child isn't a meme. Where did THAT come from? I've looked up immediate execution by beheading and found Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran in present day, and then Europe and Asia a century ago. Despite all the carnage, the beheading of a 6 year old as a form of immediate execution has, well, no precedent.

It appears to have been an original thought.

You're onto an entirely different subject now.

Immediate execution by beheading of a six year old child isn't a meme. Where did THAT come from? I've looked up immediate execution by beheading and found Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran in present day, and then Europe and Asia a century ago. Despite all the carnage, the beheading of a 6 year old as a form of immediate execution has, well, no precedent.

That doesn't matter, HOTYH, because the person who wrote it was not actually talking about beheading a 6-year-old. They were just talking, period.