Reasons why you think it could be suicide

[defense101]

I thought this thread was for why you think it is suicide? Everyone has all the other threads lets leave this to those who think it is suicide IMO Even though I don't believe it.

 

[DeDee]

snipped and BBM

I've not seen the movie but thank you for conveying the subject matter.

My question to all is this: If this movie was indeed confiscated in the investigation - why for heaven's sake didn't Sheriff Gore or the other investigators utilize it to bolster their theory of suicide?

Instead, they thinly recreated the rope wizardry, relayed Jonah's late in the evening call telling Rebecca that Max wouldn't make it and stated a very aged recount of Rebecca not eating well. All nonsensical to the degree that the publilc didn't buy their storytelling IMO. Not exactly riveting or compelling evidence.

Could it be that using the film as evidence muddied the waters for their "science doesn't lie" explanation?

And perhaps those in charge of the investigation understood too well that the murderers (oh, sorry, LE probably didn't see the perpetrators as murderers because it was thought Rebecca smothered Max at that point) - that the perpetrators themselves followed the storyline of the film which would have been too obvious to people with half a brain to sort out that an eye-for-an-eye murder happened that night and revenge was had?

Sheriff Gore and his little possey had a story to tell - they just are pretty lousy storytellers and they must believe that their audience is a bunch of idiots which was their first mistake. The cloud of murder will forever hang over this crime because they simply didn't do their job. Good luck to the Zahaus and let the depositions begin!

Greetings, justice. I venture to opine a reason LE did not divulge this particular item is bc it could be prejudicial to Rebecca. IOW, it is not necessary that the public be made aware of the movie to understand their official findings. The sheriff stated his office released limited information to the public but later threatened to release all of it if the Zahau team did not stop misrepresenting the facts.

IIRC, the Zahau team released the fact that the movie was confiscated at the Ocean Blvd residence.

After studying The Housemaid, via youtube, I was truly astonished the incriminating info was ever unveiled.

As far as Rebecca having an eating disorder, various photo images of RZ have been viewed. She appears strong, muscular, extremely thin and close to zero body fat especially in the full profile picture that cynic posted last evening describing her abrasions.

imo & moo

 

[inthedark14]

<Snipped by me>

As far as Rebecca having an eating disorder, various photo images of RZ have been viewed. She appears strong, muscular, extremely thin and close to zero body fat especially in the full profile picture that cynic posted last evening describing her abrasions.

imo & moo[/COLOR]

Above snipped by me....

A photo of a very athletic woman, in full profile does not show that she has an eating disorder. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. Would you mind explaining? Honestly if you gave my marathon running vegan sister a (non-runner's) tan, she could be this photo. She eats way more than I do and is the healthiest person I know. Being strong and muscular does not equate being "extremely thin", it equates to being extremely healthy. Are you now stating that RZ had an eating disorder? Because in the home she and Jonah shared healthy eating was the standard? Please help me understand your point of view. TIA.

 

[DeDee]

Bolded by me.

So someone would hang themselves outside, in the nude, with their hands tied behind their backs, with their feet bound as well, from a balcony with nothing under them to keep themselves from dying in order to get some sort of sexual reaction?????? Or is this another attempt to try and smear Rebecca yet again and throw something else at her to make her seem as if SHE was the one with the problem in this whole mess of unusual characters?

In order for someone to be a kleptomaniac doesn't it usually involve more than one incident?

What is Kleptomania?


Kleptomania, is the repetitive, uncontrollable stealing of items not needed for personal use.

http://www.brainphysics.com/kleptomania.php

Now let's talk about the plucked eyebrows. I know of very few women (and some men as well) who do NOT pluck their eyebrows. I also pluck my eyebrows as well on occasion so I suppose that makes me also a person that could have this "condition". So Rebecca had her brows tattooed on. What does this prove?

Again the two "possible diagnosis" points to more smearing of Rebecca's name and memory than really adding anything to a real conversation about her death or Max's death, IMO. I suppose this is the price to be paid though when someone has issues with the other side of the equation and how their behavior is off and indicative of something being wrong.

MOO

I believe RZ killed herself in a most unusual way. So does Roy Black. ditto for former LADP Det Mark Fuhrman.

"Roy Black, a criminal defense attorney, has followed the case closely and examined the autopsy reports. He told ABC News that the police's conclusion Zahau committed suicide is "inescapable." "No evidence of a struggle, at all."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/mansion-deaths-jonah-shacknai-files-letter-investigation-rebecca/story?id=14562097

In the video clip on that same abcnews link at 02:38, Mary Zahau states that she and Rebecca had been discussing Thanksgiving and Christmas. Really? Was Rebecca talking about Thanksgiving and Christmas, in July, while Maxie was hospitalized, in an induced coma?

 

[bourne]

I believe RZ killed herself in a most unusual way. So does Roy Black. ditto for former LADP Det Mark Fuhrman.



http://abcnews.go.com/US/mansion-deaths-jonah-shacknai-files-letter-investigation-rebecca/story?id=14562097

Unfortunately, both Roy Black and Mark Fuhrman had zero access to the actual Zahau case files (this means they were *not* privvy to any physical evidence or *all* the facts) and based their erroneous conclusions solely on what *limited, selectively biased information* SDLE chose to publish on their website about the case.

So many of their conclusions are just plain wrong. Here are a few of the significant errors made by Mr. Black in his article "Stop Calling It Murder"*:

Mr. Black wrote:
1) "He [Max] was rushed to the hospital clinging to life. Jonah Shacknai, the boy&#8217;s father, and Dina Shacknai, Jonah&#8217;s ex-wife and the boy&#8217;s mother, kept vigil at his bedside" and "Video cameras at the hospital also showed Dina was there during that time period."

We know this to be blatantly *false* because at a Sept. 2011 presser, Sheriff Gore admitted that the only way they alibied Dina at the hospital was via "cellphone triangulation". Gore specifically stated that Jonah was seen on surveillance video at the hospital and RMH many times, but said that the only thing that showed that Dina was perhaps at the hospital was through "cellphone triangulation". In fact, what Gore said was "Through cellphone triangulation, we determined that Dina was in the vicinity of the hospital". Even Gore did not say that Dina was "sitting vigil by Max's bedside" nor that "video cameras at the hospital showed Dina there during the time surrounding Rebecca's death."

2) "And Jonah&#8217;s brother Adam, who discovered Rebecca&#8217;s body, was polygraphed and cleared as well."

We know this is another falsehood because when Adam's polygrapher Redden was interviewed and also in the video of Adam's polygraph, Redden clearly stated that Adam's polygraph exam was "inconclusive" and that he saw a need for a second polygraph but was never asked to do so by LE. So Mr. Black is again *wrong* that Adam was "cleared" by polygraph.

3) "After two days of hopeful reports, Rebecca Zahau for the first time learned in a 12:50 a.m. voicemail message that Max was brain dead, on life support, and his death was inevitable."

First of all, the 12:50am VM is in contention because to date, this VM is not listed on Rebecca's cellphone records. Second, LE has not provided any evidence to back their claim that Jonah left the "suicide trigger" VM on Rebecca's cellphone. Third, how does Mr. Black know what exactly was on the VM that Jonah allegedly made to Rebecca that night? Fourth, how does Mr. Black know that it was Rebecca who retrieved the VM at 12:50am?

Clearly, Mr. Black made many assumptions *without* solid evidence. Therefore, I would discount anything Mr. Black says. Without any hard facts or concrete proof of anything, speculations were all he could make. I would say the same with Mr. Fuhrman because he also had no access to *all* the evidence in the case files and simply based his suicide conclusion on the *limited, selectively biased* information that SDLE chose to publish on their website about the Zahau case.

Moreover, I wonder why Mr. Black chose the minimalist, almost derogatory phrase, "babysitter" as a label for Rebecca when clearly Rebecca was much more than a babysitter. Rebecca was Jonah's *live-in girlfriend*, NOT a babysitter. To me, the fact that Mr. Black called Rebecca a "babysitter" leads me to believe someone close to the investigation (e.g., the murderer(s) themselves) might have made a special request to Mr. Black to speak up about this case. And that the perps had specifically called Rebecca a "babysitter" when referencing Rebecca.

* http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...bysitter-rebecca-zahau-s-death-no-murder.html

 

[screecher]

...

As far as Rebecca having an eating disorder, various photo images of RZ have been viewed. She appears strong, muscular, extremely thin and close to zero body fat especially in the full profile picture that cynic posted last evening describing her abrasions.

imo & moo[/COLOR]

Eating disorder??? Really???

Rebecca wasn't anorexic. Both Rebecca and Jonah were regulars at the gym. She was fit. She cared very much about nutrition and living a healthy life.

It was one of the reasons Jonah was very much attracted to Rebecca.

Google anorexic.

 

[MyBelle]

I believe RZ killed herself in a most unusual way. So does Roy Black. ditto for former LADP Det Mark Fuhrman.



http://abcnews.go.com/US/mansion-deaths-jonah-shacknai-files-letter-investigation-rebecca/story?id=14562097

the medical examiner also agrees with you, me, Black, Fuhrman, etc. I seriously doubt a judge will move the complaint forward.

JMO

 

[bourne]

the medical examiner also agrees with you, me, Black, Fuhrman, etc. I seriously doubt a judge will move the complaint forward.

JMO

We know you were wrong once before when you stated that the Zahaus would not file wrongful death suits. So hopefully you're wrong again.

 

[MyBelle]

We know you were wrong once before when you stated that the Zahaus would not file wrongful death suits. So hopefully you're wrong again.

I never stated the Zahaus would not file a wrongful death lawsuit. I said they will not win such a lawsuit. I continue to hold that opinion.

JMO

 

[bourne]

I never stated the Zahaus would not file a wrongful death lawsuit. I said they will not win such a lawsuit. I continue to hold that opinion.

JMO

I don't have time to dig up your old post(s) right now, but when I do, I'll reply again.

 

[DeDee]

the medical examiner also agrees with you, me, Black, Fuhrman, etc. I seriously doubt a judge will move the complaint forward.

JMO

Hats off to Mark Furhman for his diligent investigative work on the unsolved Martha Moxley case that led to the successful conviction of Michael Skakel.

I agree and predict the judge dismisses the Zahau's lawsuit.

If that happens, maybe Dina will author a book that includes RZs LE file. Otherwise, we may never learn more about the malice at the mansion.

Rebecca effectively denied everyone from the facts relating to Maxie's multiple injuries when she hung herself in a most unusual way in order to place attention on herself and away from Maxie.

 

[inthedark14]

Hats off to Mark Furhman for his diligent investigative work on the unsolved Martha Moxley case that led to the successful conviction of Michael Skakel.

I agree and predict the judge dismisses the Zahau's lawsuit.

If that happens, maybe Dina will author a book that includes RZs LE file. Otherwise, we may never learn more about the malice at the mansion.

Rebecca effectively denied everyone from the facts relating to Maxie's multiple injuries when she hung herself in a most unusual way in order to place attention on herself and away from Maxie.

I appreciate your prediction while of course I'm certain that won't be the case. Now we have someone who would be so awful that they would commit suicide to take away from the death of a little boy? So please do tell us, did she "commit suicide" because she was guilty of something or did she "commit suicide" because she wanted to take away from the suffering and loss of this little boy?!

Seriously, will there be no end to this? How much can a dead woman be maligned to fit the theory that is being promoted? It changes constantly, so there must be some fact in there somewhere? Right?

No one really cares what DS fed her child or allowed him to do, what now two years later is the fact that the reasons why RZ supposedly killed herself changes with every tidbit of fact that comes out. Why has DS not provided the medical records that show when she was informed of MS' eventual death (that is really hard to type and awful to think about). Everyone here gets that DS has suffered an incomparable loss. We KNOW. We all wish Maxie was still here, we all want justice for him. There is not one poster here (that I am aware of) that doesn't want BOTH of these cases reopened, because that is where the answers are. The only people who DON'T want that are the ones who want to spew hateful rhetoric about a dead woman.

RIP Maxie and Rebecca. I hope all of this is far beyond you in paradise.

ALWAYS, MOO!!!

 

[SweetT]

I appreciate your prediction while of course I'm certain that won't be the case. Now we have someone who would be so awful that they would commit suicide to take away from the death of a little boy? So please do tell us, did she "commit suicide" because she was guilty of something or did she "commit suicide" because she wanted to take away from the suffering and loss of this little boy?!

Seriously, will there be no end to this? How much can a dead woman be maligned to fit the theory that is being promoted? It changes constantly, so there must be some fact in there somewhere? Right?

No one really cares what DS fed her child or allowed him to do, what now two years later is the fact that the reasons why RZ supposedly killed herself changes with every tidbit of fact that comes out. Why has DS not provided the medical records that show when she was informed of MS' eventual death (that is really hard to type and awful to think about). Everyone here gets that DS has suffered an incomparable loss. We KNOW. We all wish Maxie was still here, we all want justice for him. There is not one poster here (that I am aware of) that doesn't want BOTH of these cases reopened, because that is where the answers are. The only people who DON'T want that are the ones who want to spew hateful rhetoric about a dead woman.

RIP Maxie and Rebecca. I hope all of this is far beyond you in paradise.

ALWAYS, MOO!!!

I wasn't the original poster but I would say. No one knows exactly why Rebecca committed suicide, only she knows this answer.
I care what Dina has to say about her son, she was his mother and would know him better than anyone. Just like if it were your child I would tend to believe the bio mother rather than the rumors or gossip of others who did not live within the family. If my son/your son etc complained about their fathers new girlfriend then it is relevant in my opinion. A mother raising their child knows how they get along better than anyone, in my opinion.
Dina has no obligation to show anyone when she learned of anything, it is her perogative to share or not share whatever she feels fit. She is not on trial and has no reason to share anything that she doesn't want to.

 

[K_Z]

(Snipped for relevance) Dina has no obligation to show anyone when she learned of anything, it is her perogative to share or not share whatever she feels fit. She is not on trial and has no reason to share anything that she doesn't want to.

BBM.

JMO, but soon Dina may be compelled to "share" a lot of things, including when she learned about certain pertinent things. I think the civil case will proceed to discovery, interrogatories, and depositions. Dina will be on trial, when the civil case proceeds along a little further. A jury trial was requested in the original filing.

http://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/casdce/3:2013cv01624/419200/

Because of the manner in which Dina has conducted herself over the past year, I do hope that her deposition, as well as Nina's and Adam's, are videotaped, in addition to the court reporter transcription. I think video recording of their depositions would be valuable, on a number of levels.

I don't think Dina or Nina would mind the video cameras at their depositions, and they may even request to be video taped. Dina, especially, loves to be interviewed, IMO.

 

[DeDee]

I appreciate your prediction while of course I'm certain that won't be the case. Now we have someone who would be so awful that they would commit suicide to take away from the death of a little boy? So please do tell us, did she "commit suicide" because she was guilty of something or did she "commit suicide" because she wanted to take away from the suffering and loss of this little boy?!

Seriously, will there be no end to this? How much can a dead woman be maligned to fit the theory that is being promoted? It changes constantly, so there must be some fact in there somewhere? Right?

No one really cares what DS fed her child or allowed him to do, what now two years later is the fact that the reasons why RZ supposedly killed herself changes with every tidbit of fact that comes out. Why has DS not provided the medical records that show when she was informed of MS' eventual death (that is really hard to type and awful to think about). Everyone here gets that DS has suffered an incomparable loss. We KNOW. We all wish Maxie was still here, we all want justice for him. There is not one poster here (that I am aware of) that doesn't want BOTH of these cases reopened, because that is where the answers are. The only people who DON'T want that are the ones who want to spew hateful rhetoric about a dead woman.

RIP Maxie and Rebecca. I hope all of this is far beyond you in paradise.

ALWAYS, MOO!!!

While only Rebecca knows why she committed suicide in such a frightful way, we can all agree the manner is startling. It is unique. It is the first of its kind ever documented. It made worldwide headlines bc it was so unheard of for a lady to hang herself bound and naked outdoors. The scene certainly distracted from Maxie, especially for the immediate families involved, and zeroed attention onto herself bc that is who she was thinking of at the time.

No, the suicide was not "to take away from the suffering and loss of this little boy" instead the shock value was perhaps meant more to detract and draw attention away from Maxie's pending demise.

My theory has not wavered on this board regarding these two cases. I prefer both cases to be reopened and re-evaluated even though I believe RZ did successfully take her own life. IMO, what led up to the cause of Maxie's death has not adequately been explained by SDSO.

Obviously, I am not privy to reasons Dina may have for not publically disclosing her child's medical records. If there was a supposition ventured, maybe she is planning to disclose the answer you seek during court proceedings.

imoo

 

[*Lash*]

While only Rebecca knows why she committed suicide in such a frightful way, we can all agree the manner is startling. It is unique. It is the first of its kind ever documented. It made worldwide headlines bc it was so unheard of for a lady to hang herself bound and naked outdoors. The scene certainly distracted from Maxie, especially for the immediate families involved, and zeroed attention onto herself bc that is who she was thinking of at the time.

No, the suicide was not "to take away from the suffering and loss of this little boy" instead the shock value was perhaps meant more to detract and draw attention away from Maxie's pending demise.

My theory has not wavered on this board regarding these two cases. I prefer both cases to be reopened and re-evaluated even though I believe RZ did successfully take her own life. IMO, what led up to the cause of Maxie's death has not adequately been explained by SDSO.

Obviously, I am not privy to reasons Dina may have for not publically disclosing her child's medical records. If there was a supposition ventured, maybe she is planning to disclose the answer you seek during court proceedings.

imoo

RBBM - In my opinion, Rebecca's death made worldwide headlines because her nude bound body laid exposed for the world to see for 12 plus hours.

 

[*Lash*]

While only Rebecca knows why she committed suicide in such a frightful way, we can all agree the manner is startling. It is unique. It is the first of its kind ever documented. It made worldwide headlines bc it was so unheard of for a lady to hang herself bound and naked outdoors. The scene certainly distracted from Maxie, especially for the immediate families involved, and zeroed attention onto herself bc that is who she was thinking of at the time.

No, the suicide was not "to take away from the suffering and loss of this little boy" instead the shock value was perhaps meant more to detract and draw attention away from Maxie's pending demise.

My theory has not wavered on this board regarding these two cases. I prefer both cases to be reopened and re-evaluated even though I believe RZ did successfully take her own life. IMO, what led up to the cause of Maxie's death has not adequately been explained by SDSO.

Obviously, I am not privy to reasons Dina may have for not publically disclosing her child's medical records. If there was a supposition ventured, maybe she is planning to disclose the answer you seek during court proceedings.

imoo

We cannot all agree, had this been a suicide, the manner was startling. People who are suicidal are clearly not thinking logically and commit suicide in unusual ways every day. I was on the fence in the very beginning of this case and I personally was not surprised that someone would commit suicide in this manner. It was when I learned Rebecca's ankles were bound, I began to question any suicide theory. It did not make sense that a person would bind their ankles when they needed them to jump over a balcony. In the early days, the media was reporting Rebecca's death as a possible suicide and I was open to the suggestion but I could not get over the ankle bindings. Then the 9/2/2011 press conference happened and I literally fell off the fence. The manner was not startling, the story SDSO began to sell on 9/2/2011 was startling.

 

[inthedark14]

We cannot all agree, had this been a suicide, the manner was startling. People who are suicidal are clearly not thinking logically and commit suicide in unusual ways every day. I was on the fence in the very beginning of this case and I personally was not surprised that someone would commit suicide in this manner. It was when I learned Rebecca's ankles were bound, I began to question any suicide theory. It did not make sense that a person would bind their ankles when they needed them to jump over a balcony. In the early days, the media was reporting Rebecca's death as a possible suicide and I was open to the suggestion but I could not get over the ankle bindings. Then the 9/2/2011 press conference happened and I literally fell off the fence. The manner was not startling, the story SDSO began to sell on 9/2/2011 was startling.

Does anyone remember that lady in LA with the chainsaw? That was seriously startling. Anyone who is familiar with this case has done research into odd suicides. There are quite a few of them out there. The difference is the way SDSO treated RZ and her family, and in turn how they treated the S family. It also has to do with 2+ years of hate and attempts to assassinate the character of the person who died. All of this has been done in a campaign to make it seem that RZ deserved to die. Do you think that the police treated Adam Mayes' body the way RZ's was treated? He murdered two people and kidnapped two young girls, then committed suicide. The answer is NO.

The fact of the matter is that since RZ died she has been accused of everything from wearing too much make up to murdering a child. Her family has been tormented and threatened. We all know that JS hired a PR firm, but seriously would any self-respecting PR firm say the things that have been said, post all those horrible things (that can be traced) all over the net? Seriously doubtful if they want more high profile clients. Which leads to the question of who would have the most (if anything) to gain, by using the internet as a weapon against a dead (IMO murdered) woman and her family? Perhaps, more importantly, why would they be allowed to?

ALWAYS MOO

 

[K_Z]

We all know that JS hired a PR firm, but seriously would any self-respecting PR firm say the things that have been said, post all those horrible things (that can be traced) all over the net? Seriously doubtful if they want more high profile clients. Which leads to the question of who would have the most (if anything) to gain, by using the internet as a weapon against a dead (IMO murdered) woman and her family? Perhaps, more importantly, why would they be allowed to?

(Snipped, bolded, and colored by me.)

I have been watching the show, so to speak, for 2+ years and used to wonder the same thing, inthedark14.

The conclusion that I have come to, (and this is my own sort of educated opinion, lol!), is that sometimes the best strategy is to give someone "enough rope to hang themselves", KWIM?

Not to use a bad pun, but in this, to me, is the most likely explanation. All things in good time. And the internet "never" forgets. There is a reason, IMO, that such vile things have been allowed (tolerated) to be posted so many places. Once I learned a little more, I found that I have become surprisingly tolerant of these vile posts and accusations.

Let those who will, post whatever awful, nasty, and vile trash they want.

Let them post voluminously. All of their hate filled rhetoric. Really.

I'm sure the Zahau family has been filled in by their attorneys on all this "internet stuff", as well. They are on the right path, IMO.

 

[MyBelle]

Hats off to Mark Furhman for his diligent investigative work on the unsolved Martha Moxley case that led to the successful conviction of Michael Skakel.

I agree and predict the judge dismisses the Zahau's lawsuit.

If that happens, maybe Dina will author a book that includes RZs LE file. Otherwise, we may never learn more about the malice at the mansion.

Rebecca effectively denied everyone from the facts relating to Maxie's multiple injuries when she hung herself in a most unusual way in order to place attention on herself and away from Maxie.

If this lawsuit does move forward, I think the depositions from all the young people will be very interesting and might shed more light on what happened.

JMO