Reasons why you think it could be suicide

[MyBelle]

(Snipped, bolded, and colored by me.)

I have been watching the show, so to speak, for 2+ years and used to wonder the same thing, inthedark14.

The conclusion that I have come to, (and this is my own sort of educated opinion, lol!), is that sometimes the best strategy is to give someone "enough rope to hang themselves", KWIM?

Not to use a bad pun, but in this, to me, is the most likely explanation. All things in good time. And the internet "never" forgets. There is a reason, IMO, that such vile things have been allowed (tolerated) to be posted so many places. Once I learned a little more, I found that I have become surprisingly tolerant of these vile posts and accusations.

Let those who will, post whatever awful, nasty, and vile trash they want.

Let them post voluminously. All of their hate filled rhetoric. Really.

I'm sure the Zahau family has been filled in by their attorneys on all this "internet stuff", as well. They are on the right path, IMO.

I've yet to see any case where opinions offered bystanders on the Internet influence a Judge.

JMO

 

[inthedark14]

I've yet to see any case where opinions offered bystanders on the Internet influence a Judge.

JMO

Agreed, if they are indeed bystanders. People involved in the case at hand however, well, that is a different story.

This is a great article that highlights cyber stalking and cyber intimidation behaviors, it also cites many actual cases.

http://www.cybercrimejournal.com/pittaroijccvol1is2.htm

ALWAYS MOO

 

[MyBelle]

Agreed, if they are indeed bystanders. People involved in the case at hand however, well, that is a different story.

This is a great article that highlights cyber stalking and cyber intimidation behaviors, it also cites many actual cases.

http://www.cybercrimejournal.com/pittaroijccvol1is2.htm

ALWAYS MOO

I don't believe there is any evidence that RZ was ever the victim of cyber stalking or intimidation. I also don't believe 50+ people did so and conspired against her as alleged in the civil lawsuit. She may have told her family this but that doesn't mean it was true. I have held the opinion from the very beginning that RZ killed herself and tried to make it look like a homicide.

JMO

 

[*Lash*]

I don't believe there is any evidence that RZ was ever the victim of cyber stalking or intimidation. I also don't believe 50+ people did so and conspired against her as alleged in the civil lawsuit. She may have told her family this but that doesn't mean it was true. I have held the opinion from the very beginning that RZ killed herself and tried to make it look like a homicide.

JMO

Respectfully, it really does not matter what you and I think. What matters is what proof is presented at the trial and what the jurors believe.

I am pretty confident you know the lawsuit is not alleging 50+ people stalked and conspired against Rebecca.

 

[bourne]

Agreed, if they are indeed bystanders. People involved in the case at hand however, well, that is a different story.

This is a great article that highlights cyber stalking and cyber intimidation behaviors, it also cites many actual cases.

http://www.cybercrimejournal.com/pittaroijccvol1is2.htm

ALWAYS MOO

Wasn't it published at one time that Rebecca's credit cards were stolen and used? In other words, someone pretended to be Rebecca and used her credit card to impersonate her and steal her identity (Identity theft). That's also considered a cyberstalking technique.

Also, the perp(s) using Rebecca's computer and laptop at the Spreckels mansion the Tuesday afternoon right before Rebecca was then murdered that night constitutes continual VINDICTIVE CYBERSTALKING. The fact that they did numerous searches by accessing and using Rebecca's electronics is another cyberstalking tactic.

Moreover, in the same article it's stated that persistent cyberstalking has led to murders of victims committed by the cyberstalkers. I believe that is what happened in the case with Rebecca by her cyberstalkers-turned-murderers, namely Dina and Nina.

From the article you linked:

"This group was more likely to employ a number of spiteful tactics that were intended to continuously harass victims through excessive spamming, email bombing, and identity theft (McFarlane & Bocij 2005)."

"Vindictive Cyber stalkers were the only group of the four to purposely use Trojans to access the victim’s computer and deliberately infect the computer with a destructive virus (McFarlane & Bocij 2005). The group’s computer skills and proficiency ranged from medium to high and there was some indication that mental illness was present based on the bizarre, disturbing content that was often transmitted to victims (McFarlane & Bocij 2005).

"This writer would place Liam Youens in this particular category based on Youens’ bizarre behaviors and obsession with stalking and eventually murdering Amy Lynn Boyer."

I'm reposting this in the WDS thread in case some pro-Dina posters get our posts deleted for being O/T.

 

[MyBelle]

Respectfully, it really does not matter what you and I think. What matters is what proof is presented at the trial and what the jurors believe.

I am pretty confident you know the lawsuit is not alleging 50+ people stalked and conspired against Rebecca.

Respectfully, this is an opinion forum.

The lawsuit links were posted on another thread by Time and it does list 50 "Does" as defendants in addition to DS, NR and AS.


3:13-cv-01624-W-NLS Estate of Rebecca Zahau et al v. Shacknai et al
Thomas J. Whelan, presiding
Nita L. Stormes, referral
Date filed: 07/12/2013
Date of last filing: 07/12/2013

Case Summary

Office: San Diego Filed: 07/12/2013 Jury Demand: Plaintiff Demand: $9999000 Nature of Suit: 360 Cause: 28:1332 Diversity-Personal Injury
Attached Thumbnails
1-main.pdf 1-1.pdf 1-2.pdf

 

[K_Z]

<modsnip>

Actually, I thought it was interesting that there were ONLY 50 Does in the WDS filing.

IIRC, there were 100 Does listed in the lawsuit to obtain Rebecca's property, etc. Probably because there are so many employees at so many levels in LE that lots of different people could be the ones responsible to maintain the different items listed. They would each have to be named individually, but are listed as "Does" until it is determined "who" each person is.

Naming "John/ Jane Does" in a lawsuit is not uncommon at all.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_defendants"]Fictitious defendants - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

A fictitious defendant is a person that cannot be identified by the plaintiff before a lawsuit is commenced. Commonly this person is identified as "John Doe" or "Jane Doe".

As the statute of limitations for many torts such as medical malpractice is generally very short, plaintiffs under pressure to issue an originating process such as a statement of claim often use contrived names such as John Doe in the title of proceedings and identify the person's role in the lawsuit in the body of the pleading. Generally, this tactic preserves the limitation period and, with leave of the court, the plaintiff can later substitute the real name of the defendant once it is learned during the discovery process.

 

[DeDee]

(Snipped, bolded, and colored by me.)

I have been watching the show, so to speak, for 2+ years and used to wonder the same thing, inthedark14.

The conclusion that I have come to, (and this is my own sort of educated opinion, lol!), is that sometimes the best strategy is to give someone "enough rope to hang themselves", KWIM?

Not to use a bad pun, but in this, to me, is the most likely explanation. All things in good time. And the internet "never" forgets. There is a reason, IMO, that such vile things have been allowed (tolerated) to be posted so many places. Once I learned a little more, I found that I have become surprisingly tolerant of these vile posts and accusations.
<modsnip>


I'm sure the Zahau family has been filled in by their attorneys on all this "internet stuff", as well. They are on the right path, IMO.

The statements seem hypocritical since numerous nasty remarks have been posted about the Shacknai's. <modsnip>

We cannot all agree, had this been a suicide, the manner was startling. People who are suicidal are clearly not thinking logically and commit suicide in unusual ways every day. I was on the fence in the very beginning of this case and I personally was not surprised that someone would commit suicide in this manner. It was when I learned Rebecca's ankles were bound, I began to question any suicide theory. It did not make sense that a person would bind their ankles when they needed them to jump over a balcony. In the early days, the media was reporting Rebecca's death as a possible suicide and I was open to the suggestion but I could not get over the ankle bindings. Then the 9/2/2011 press conference happened and I literally fell off the fence. The manner was not startling, the story SDSO began to sell on 9/2/2011 was startling.

"The single most important thing is there has never been a reported suicide of a female like this. Bound hands and feet. Gagged. A noose around her neck. Naked. Blood down her legs. A shirt wrapped three times around her neck. Tied to a bed with neat slip knots and square knots," Bremner wrote in an email message to ABCNews.com. - See more at: http://www.sdparanormal.com/board/board_topic/310672/1960845.htm#sthash.mOhE5FYM.dpuf

If you prefer to claim a suicide like Rebecca's, by hanging herself, bound and naked outdoors, is normal and not unique, that is your right. However, Rebecca went to great effort to implicate others in her death and binding her own feet was part of that scheme. The blue shirt stuffed in her mouth showed thorough suicidal ideation.


An interview with Examiner.com and Anne Bremner:

"The police tried to present a voice mail message which Ms. Zahau was alleged to have received on her cell phone on Wednesday morning, July 13, at 12:50 a.m. PDT allegedly telling her that Maxie had taken a turn for the worse and was unlikely to survive, which was characterized as a tipping point, sending her into a final downward spiral, and ending in her decision, for whatever reasons, to kill herself. Can you address that theory?"

"Of course. First of all there was no evidence of a voice mail message. It had been erased. It may be possible, if it ever existed, to reconstruct it."

The records don&#8217;t show Shacknai leaving that voicemail, a fact the Zahau family lawyer believes is rather mysterious. But according to according to an AT&T spokesperson: When someone calls you and you do not pick it up, or the call was not received, it goes straight to voicemail &#8230; It is not logged on your bill per se. If you&#8217;re not answering it or if your phone&#8217;s turned off, it&#8217;s not going to register.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_...catch-22/?tag=bnetdomain#sthash.mOhE5FYM.dpuf
http://www.examiner.com/article/int...ahau-family-attorney-debunks-suicide-findings

Then, the insightful letter to AB arrives from Jonah's attorney.

The letter, obtained by KFMB News 8, appears in its entirety below:

From: "Webb, Dan K."
Date: September 6, 2011 6:43:13 AM PDT
To: "[email protected]
Subject: Jonah Shacknai

Dear Ms. Bremner,
I am an attorney for Jonah Shacknai, retained by him to address false public statements you have made, which have the effect of severely damaging Mr. Shacknai's personal and business reputations. Over the past several days, you have made a series of inaccurate and utterly unsupported statements about the facts surrounding the tragic deaths of Max Shacknai and Rebecca Zahau. However, what is most concerning are recent false public statements you have made that Mr. Shacknai, because of his business success, has somehow improperly influenced the investigations and conclusions of four different, and, independent California law enforcement agencies. You have further made public comments that these agencies have applied a different standard in conducting their investigations because of Mr. Shacknai's wealth. You have absolutely no facts to support these false and irresponsible statements, and you are fully aware that such facts do not exist. Please know that your false public statements constitute defamation, per se, and under law, entitle Mr. Shacknai to recover from you, and your law firm, substantial damages.
Moreover, your statements and actions are highly insensitive on a human level. Mr. Shacknai and his family have suffered two tragic losses under the harsh and unkind glare of a national media frenzy you have now helped sustain. It is ironic that Mr. Shacknai went through the entire law enforcement investigation, at all times cooperating completely with several police authorities, and never once considered retaining an attorney. It is only now, after authorities have announced the conclusions of their comprehensive investigations, that Mr. Shacknai finds it necessary to consult with me because of the false and irresponsible public statements you are making, harming his personal and business reputations. Importantly, throughout the investigation, Mr. Shacknai was not advancing any particular outcome regarding Rebecca Zahau's cause of death, because he had absolutely no knowledge of what happened the night she died.
It is not, in any way, the intent of this communication to advocate that your clients accept the results of the investigation. They are, of course, entitled to their point of view regarding this matter. Nevertheless, you must cease and desist from making any further false public statements about Mr. Shacknai. I appreciate your immediate attention to the seriousness of this matter.
Dan K. Webb
Chairman
Winston & Strawn LLP
35 W. Wacker Drive
Chicago, IL 60601-9703

It appears, from the letter, that the Zahau team was caught blatantly making false statements. While it is understandable that the Z family chooses not believe their loved one took her own life in a manner made to look like a murder, possibly, that is why there is no suicide note left to her family since the painted message on the door is clearly for Jonah's benefit. RZ attempted to make her death look like a murder but the evidence trail led straight to her. Ten areas of the rope from around her feet, around her hands, and around the bedframe were tested for DNA and the science proved only RZs cells present and "not a single flake belonged to anybody else". The suicide indicates RZ was escaping from something she obviously did not wish to be confronted about.


imoo

 

[Betty P]

The statements seem hypocritical since numerous nasty remarks have been posted about the Shacknai's. So much meanness has been written and scattered on these threads about Dina and her sister with absolutely no viable evidence to back it up.





If you prefer to claim a suicide like Rebecca's, by hanging herself, bound and naked outdoors, is normal and not unique, that is your right. However, Rebecca went to great effort to implicate others in her death and binding her own feet was part of that scheme. The blue shirt stuffed in her mouth showed thorough suicidal ideation.


An interview with Examiner.com and Anne Bremner:




Then, the insightful letter to AB arrives from Jonah's attorney.

The letter, obtained by KFMB News 8, appears in its entirety below:




It appears, from the letter, that the Zahau team was caught blatantly making false statements. While it is understandable that the Z family chooses not believe their loved one took her own life in a manner made to look like a murder, possibly, that is why there is no suicide note left to her family since the painted message on the door is clearly for Jonah's benefit. RZ attempted to make her death look like a murder but the evidence trail led straight to her. Ten areas of the rope from around her feet, around her hands, and around the bedframe were tested for DNA and the science proved only RZs cells present and "not a single flake belonged to anybody else". The suicide indicates RZ was escaping from something she obviously did not wish to be confronted about.


imoo

De Dee, by any chance do you have a link to the source for that letter? Just curious. If accurate, its not surprising that JS would make threats to RZ's family attorneys. That's the way he does things. Interesting, though that RZ's family never made similar threats to DR in spite of the many unsubstantiated and defamatory remarks she's made about RZ - a victim who is no longer alive to defend herself. It shows some real integrity on the Zahau family's part that they instead press for real facts and a new investigation of both cases instead of intimidating others.

The Schacknai & Romano families continue to ignore the fact that the Zahau's are also grieving the loss of a loved one who died a tragic, mysterious death.

As for the DNA found on evidence you mentioned, the reports show there was mixed DNA found on several items of evidence. There were also many items of evidence that were never tested at all for DNA. Their grief is just as great as the other family in this tragedy. They are not second class citizens simply because they have less money and power. They certainly have more integrity, though.

 

[DeDee]

De Dee, by any chance do you have a link to the source for that letter? Just curious. If accurate, its not surprising that JS would make threats to RZ's family attorneys. That's the way he does things. Interesting, though that RZ's family never made similar threats to DR in spite of the many unsubstantiated and defamatory remarks she's made about RZ - a victim who is no longer alive to defend herself. It shows some real integrity on the Zahau family's part that they instead press for real facts and a new investigation of both cases instead of intimidating others.

The Schacknai & Romano families continue to ignore the fact that the Zahau's are also grieving the loss of a loved one who died a tragic, mysterious death.

As for the DNA found on evidence you mentioned, the reports show there was mixed DNA found on several items of evidence. There were also many items of evidence that were never tested at all for DNA. Their grief is just as great as the other family in this tragedy. They are not second class citizens simply because they have less money and power. They certainly have more integrity, though.

Sure, Betty P. Here you go:

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15406681/shacknai-sends-cease-and-desist-letter-to-zahau-family-attorney

Why is it considered intimidation to request someone to stop making inaccurate statements?

The letter clearly explains the reason for the cease-and-desist order. The Zahau Team made statements that were false with the intention to mislead the public. Jonah did not hire a lawyer until AB began releasing information that was erroneous. The letter was quite effective in hushing ABs false accusations regarding JSs ability to sway four investigative departments that handled the investigation.

The Shacknai and Romano families are well aware of the suffering of the Zs. Three of them have been named in a ten million dollar wrongful death lawsuit. The Zs have been publically accusing them of murdering RZ since the beginning.


http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2...a-zahau-was-murdered-not-suicide-says-sister/

"Snowem also claimed that her sister sent her an email shortly after the accident, which she has exclusively given to RadarOnline.com."

"Thanks so much snow….we r all very hopeful. Little max is still in ICU but has been stable all night which is a good sign. Please keep praying …please also pray for Jonah for strength. It might not be a good idea to call me because I am in and out of the hospital and not sure if I wil be picking up phne. Lets keep in touch via email.love u”

BBM
In and out of the hospital? I thought she was not allowed to see Maxie at the hospital so why was RZ indicating to her sister that she was?

moo

 

[*Lash*]

Hi DeDee!

I respect your posts and opinions. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Respectfully, I disagree with most of them. I believe Rebecca was murdered, therefore I have nothing more to contribute to this thread.

 

[screecher]

In and out of the hospital is not the same as in and out of Maxie's room. I doubt very much Dina Romano has/had the power to insist Rebecca stay out of the hospital. But hey, you what? I could be wrong! One way to show if Rebecca was in or never went in is....guess what?

Security cameras!

That's right. The very same security cameras that shows Dina Romano was NOT in the hospital!!!

 

[MyBelle]

Sure, Betty P. Here you go:



Why is it considered intimidation to request someone to stop making inaccurate statements?

The letter clearly explains the reason for the cease-and-desist order. The Zahau Team made statements that were false with the intention to mislead the public. Jonah did not hire a lawyer until AB began releasing information that was erroneous. The letter was quite effective in hushing ABs false accusations regarding JSs ability to sway four investigative departments that handled the investigation.

The Shacknai and Romano families are well aware of the suffering of the Zs. Three of them have been named in a ten million dollar wrongful death lawsuit. The Zs have been publically accusing them of murdering RZ since the beginning.


http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2...a-zahau-was-murdered-not-suicide-says-sister/



BBM
In and out of the hospital? I thought she was not allowed to see Maxie at the hospital so why was RZ indicating to her sister that she was?

moo

The hospital may have limited visitors to Maxie's room however RZ may have been in and out of the ICU waiting room keeping Jonah company.

JMO

 

[time]

I wasn't sure if I should put this post in this thread, but here goes:

Someone, with technical knowledge it seems, has put taunting phrases at Coronado Patch that appear when you use "Zahau" as a search term.

Months ago I wrote the editor to remove these, but nothing has changed. It is so disgusting.

I took a screenshot of it:

I looked at these a while back ... those are actually a poster's (s) nicknames, but lead no where anymore. I suspect the poster's profile(s) were deleted but for some reason the remnants are lingering.

 

[kittychi]

I looked at these a while back ... those are actually a poster's (s) nicknames, but lead no where anymore. I suspect the poster's profile(s) were deleted but for some reason the remnants are lingering.

<modsnip>. Its still disgusting.

 

[Gilgamesh]

I looked at these a while back ... those are actually a poster's (s) nicknames, but lead no where anymore. I suspect the poster's profile(s) were deleted but for some reason the remnants are lingering.

Hi Everyone,
I, Like many others, don't click on to links. Would someone let me know what
is coming up? ( even a PM). Thanks so much!

 

[time]

I wasn't sure if I should put this post in this thread, but here goes:

Someone, with technical knowledge it seems, has put taunting phrases at Coronado Patch that appear when you use "Zahau" as a search term.

Months ago I wrote the editor to remove these, but nothing has changed. It is so disgusting.

I took a screenshot of it:

I do think someone had some technical knowledge that this would remain in a search... either that or they accidentally came across it once and then started fabricating nicknames with the horrible keywords. I suppose they could have just kept trying nicknames and they kept getting deleted?? At any rate, there is some digital/electronic evidence left behind.

 

[kittychi]

I have a question for those who are making the case for suicide...

Why you think she would have used gloves with the paint? They didn't really work to keep the paint off of her if she had wanted to present a totally clean (and showered) body.

TIA

 

[DeDee]

Hi DeDee!

I respect your posts and opinions. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Respectfully, I disagree with most of them. I believe Rebecca was murdered, therefore I have nothing more to contribute to this thread.

Your politeness is appreciated, Lash.

There are others who believe in the murder theory. I just am not one of them. Many of my posts have been disrespected when all I want is the truth. I have been bullied and even accused of being Dina whom I do not even personally know. When asking myself why, I determined it may be because my posts challenge the veracity of murder.

 

[DeDee]

I have a question for those who are making the case for suicide...

Why you think she would have used gloves with the paint? They didn't really work to keep the paint off of her if she had wanted to present a totally clean (and showered) body.

TIA

Perhaps she was not all that concerned about cleanliness since she allowed blood to drip unimpeded. Perhaps she planted the gloves in the room to mislead LE into thinking an intruder made her paint the message. And they did until forensic results proved otherwise.