Reasons why you think it could be suicide

[bourne]

Ok, so RZ lapsed in vaccs and shoplifted , Dina orders too many pizzas and lapsed in rent.

Even? Haha just kidding please don't answer that.

Let's not forget that Dina also has a history of domestic violence as documented by police reports.

So weighing (pun not intended) Dina vs. Rebecca, Dina clearly wins hands down in the criminality division.

 

[bourne]

It's also possible JS left a message covering multiple topics, including Max's condition and DS's whereabouts at that time. For instance, if DS was not at the bedside, JS could have been concerned about leaving Max's bedside with nobody to relieve him, given the dire situation. For all we know, he could've been calling Rebecca to ask her to relieve him at Max's bedside so he could get some sleep. Without hearing the message, we don't know.

If the content of the voicemail would have been useful in bolstering LE's theory, I strongly suspect the investigator would have been sure to retrieve the message from the server before it was forever deleted.

All of the above is just my opinion.

Yes, exactly. We know zero, nada, zilch about the actual CONTENT of the VM that presumably someone deleted from Rebecca's VM. I would go so far as to say I bet the person who accessed and deleted Rebecca's VM was NOT Rebecca.

 

[bourne]

Whoah. I had never seen the transcript. . . If I was on the fence, that sure would tip me over.

1) why would she call him her son? 2) why would she give a reason for boarding that was not the truth? 3) or did she tell the truth and then change her mind?

Was this at the same time she misspoke and called her sister her daughter?

IMO, all those misstatements to me indicate she was very upset. Even though her sister said she didn't feel guilty (which IMO is kind of strange), it's clear she was upset. And honestly, who wouldn't feel upset or or at least a little guilty?

Why are you believing the doggie daycare owner's words at face value? It could, and likely is, that he has POOR hearing or misheard Rebecca due to the frantic nature of their encounter. Remember Rebecca, immediately after Max's injury, had to tend not only to Max and EMS and police, but also her younger sister XZ, and shuttling Nina, Adam, Dr. Luber, XZ, etc. around AND having to deal with boarding the dog must have only added to the time-constraints of Rebecca's life at that time. So I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND why Rebecca would have boarded the dog, particularly because she would NOT have time to WALK or PLAY with him. IOW, Rebecca was being a *responsible, caring* dogowner, not negligent like someone else stated above.

 

[bourne]

the call detail--time and duration--is kept by the provider of Jonah's service. That's proof that LE has seen and we have not and will not because it is private information. Jonah hasn't been charged with a crime.

BBM. You're stating this as fact and when all the above is only your opinion.

Just because there MAY be call detail from Jonah's service provider does NOT mean that's PROOF LE has seen it, or that the VM existed, or that *if* Jonah did leave a VM, that the CONTENT of that VM related to his informing Rebecca that Max's death was imminent.

Again, we do NOT know whether or not LE had obtained Jonah's phone records. Perhaps they did. Perhaps they did not. We do not know. All we know is what LE *claims*, and why should we believe what they say at face value? We have no reason to trust their word any more than you and I have a reason to trust each other's OPINIONS.

I want to add, though, I actually believe, and this is my own opinion only, I have no physical evidence for this whatsoever, that Jonah DID call Rebecca and left a VM that night. I believe this only because I don't believe Jonah had a hand in Rebecca's murder, and also I see no reason for Jonah to inject himself into the investigation into Rebecca's death at that time so why would he admit to leaving a VM if he didn't? But again, that is just my own personal OPINION based on my assessment of human behaviors and because I believe Jonah is innocent in Rebecca's murder.

 

[inthedark14]

Let's not forget that Dina also has a history of domestic violence as documented by police reports.

So weighing (pun not intended) Dina vs. Rebecca, Dina clearly wins hands down in the criminality division.

Particularly in violent offenses...charged or not someone with ONE record of shoplifting would be considered far less violent than someone with an EXTENSIVE history of domestic violence. Charged or not, all those records are out there, one of which is a charged non-violent arrest and conviction (or expunged, not sure how that all worked out), the other, multiple LE calls to a residence when a minor child was in residence and present regarding domestic violence. Hmmmm.

ALWAYS MOO

 

[kittychi]

BBM. You're stating this as fact and when all the above is only your opinion.

Just because there MAY be call detail from Jonah's service provider does NOT mean that's PROOF LE has seen it, or that the VM existed, or that *if* Jonah did leave a VM, that the CONTENT of that VM related to his informing Rebecca that Max's death was imminent.

Again, we do NOT know whether or not LE had obtained Jonah's phone records. Perhaps they did. Perhaps they did not. We do not know. All we know is what LE *claims*, and why should we believe what they say at face value? We have no reason to trust their word any more than you and I have a reason to trust each other's OPINIONS.

I want to add, though, I actually believe, and this is my own opinion only, I have no physical evidence for this whatsoever, that Jonah DID call Rebecca and left a VM that night. I believe this only because I don't believe Jonah had a hand in Rebecca's murder, and also I see no reason for Jonah to inject himself into the investigation into Rebecca's death at that time so why would he admit to leaving a VM if he didn't? But again, that is just my own personal OPINION based on my assessment of human behaviors and because I believe Jonah is innocent in Rebecca's murder.

BBM - I agree with you on that point, but I do think Jonah would have tried to protect his brother by providing a "reason" that RZ would have killed herself.

IMO, the whole idea of the voicemail being the trigger for suicide came from Jonah.

 

[inthedark14]

BBM. You're stating this as fact and when all the above is only your opinion.

Just because there MAY be call detail from Jonah's service provider does NOT mean that's PROOF LE has seen it, or that the VM existed, or that *if* Jonah did leave a VM, that the CONTENT of that VM related to his informing Rebecca that Max's death was imminent.

Again, we do NOT know whether or not LE had obtained Jonah's phone records. Perhaps they did. Perhaps they did not. We do not know. All we know is what LE *claims*, and why should we believe what they say at face value? We have no reason to trust their word any more than you and I have a reason to trust each other's OPINIONS.

I want to add, though, I actually believe, and this is my own opinion only, I have no physical evidence for this whatsoever, that Jonah DID call Rebecca and left a VM that night. I believe this only because I don't believe Jonah had a hand in Rebecca's murder, and also I see no reason for Jonah to inject himself into the investigation into Rebecca's death at that time so why would he admit to leaving a VM if he didn't? But again, that is just my own personal OPINION based on my assessment of human behaviors and because I believe Jonah is innocent in Rebecca's murder.

IMHO if LE had anything, whatsoever to present to the public on their holiday weekend press conference, they would have laid their cards out. This whole investigation is just crying for someone to provide the actual proof. What LE showed with their PowerPoint presentation was their opinion, and their opinion only. They may as well give themselves a "handle" and post here, there is no REAL EVIDENCE that has been provided that proves their theory. They provided no real facts, no real evidence. This appears to be par for the course for SDSO. I think it's very lucky for the people who live there that elections are coming pretty soon.

ALWAYS MOO

 

[screecher]

RE the phone message that AB states "no one has ever heard", well, RZ heard it and then erased it. Perhaps RZ did not want anyone else to learn the contents of Jonah's message.

.jmho

Snipped by me

So you're saying Rebecca erased the message because she didn't want anyone to hear it??? Really?!? But yet, she had no problem with the world seeing her gagged, bound, paint on her breasts, hanging and bleeding all over herself while she decomposed.

Really?

 

[screecher]

Ok, so RZ lapsed in vaccs and shoplifted , Dina orders too many pizzas and lapsed in rent.

Even? Haha just kidding please don't answer that.

Let's not forget that Dina also has a history of domestic violence as documented by police reports.

So weighing (pun not intended) Dina vs. Rebecca, Dina clearly wins hands down in the criminality division.

Yeah, Dina Romano clearly wins hands down.

 

[MyBelle]

Bolded and enlarged above by me!
Mybelle I read and ALSO listened to NR's Chan 8 interview. And she clearly stated Rebecca picked up her and NR's son at the airport on Monday, drove them to the hospital, and then still managed to take their luggage to them later in the same evening. (That is a lot of driving!)
Then of course Rebecca, took her sister to the airport, picked up AS, took him to the hospital, took HL to the airport (somewhere in all of her driving/limo duties), and then even drove AS back to the mansion.
So "technically" people were not "coming and going FROM the mansion" but they were certainly being "shuttled from airport-to-hospital-to-Coronado" all day and night by Rebecca. Maybe Rebecca was being told "more relatives" would be arriving to visit MS in the hospital? Remember Rebecca did not receive the "fait accompli phone call of MS's irreversible condition" until 12:30am, Wednesday....so I can see no reason for her not planning to board the dog if more relatives would be arriving and demanding her time.

My first question would be, was the dog ever boarded before when RZ accompanied JS on out of town trips?
And as always, I feel there are too many outstanding questions and really weird coincidences for me to accept any of LE's conclusions.

Most folks don't board their dogs just because they are busy running errands. And it is a moot point in this case because the kennel owner said in a link I posted here that the reason RZ gave him was that she wanted to be at the hospital with her son.

 

[MyBelle]

Whoah. I had never seen the transcript. . . If I was on the fence, that sure would tip me over.

1) why would she call him her son? 2) why would she give a reason for boarding that was not the truth? 3) or did she tell the truth and then change her mind?

Was this at the same time she misspoke and called her sister her daughter?

IMO, all those misstatements to me indicate she was very upset. Even though her sister said she didn't feel guilty (which IMO is kind of strange), it's clear she was upset. And honestly, who wouldn't feel upset or or at least a little guilty?

Her sister said many things but her sister was only on the phone and perhaps RZ was telling her what she wanted to hear.

Greenberg said RZ was crying and that to me is also an indication she was upset...JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I bet that she did. In fact, I bet that Jonah told her to. In fact, I see a subtle planting of spin here. The way you see it is one way to look at it. How about this way:
Rebecca was told to board the dog and then she was attacked and murdered. The dog wasn't there to save her, was he?

The dog didn't need to be boarded. Only Jonah was at the hospital and Ronald McDonald House. The dog lived at the mansion and RZ was also there.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Weimaraners are relatively high maintenance dogs. It would only make sense to have him taken care of and out of the way. Rebecca had no idea what the next days would bring, who she may have to pick up, take stuff to the hospital for Jonah, etc. it only makes sense when a family is dealing with that kind of crisis.

Also...you are saying that she cared more about the dog than her own family...she made sure the dog was taken care of but didn't even leave a note for her family? That just does not fly.

RZ was at the house and the dog lived there. Most dog owners have no problem keeping their dog at home while they are away running errands.

Did RZ leave the dog a note? I think RZ took the dog to the kennel because she knew Jonah cared about it, not because she cared about it.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

It's also possible JS left a message covering multiple topics, including Max's condition and DS's whereabouts at that time. For instance, if DS was not at the bedside, JS could have been concerned about leaving Max's bedside with nobody to relieve him, given the dire situation. For all we know, he could've been calling Rebecca to ask her to relieve him at Max's bedside so he could get some sleep. Without hearing the message, we don't know.

If the content of the voicemail would have been useful in bolstering LE's theory, I strongly suspect the investigator would have been sure to retrieve the message from the server before it was forever deleted.

All of the above is just my opinion.

It's only possible that JS left a message covering the topics you mentioned if you also believe he lied to police about what he said. And the content of the message that he left, btw, was true; his son was dying. Why on earth would the man relay to RZ anything at all about Dina?

LE's theory doesn't need bolstering because the case is closed.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

So we all agree, JS SAID he left a voicemail on RZ's phone around 12:30 a.m., we all agree he said that he did even though RZ's phone records show that she never had a missed call from him, or anyone else during this time. IMO, if JS's phone records show that he did indeed leave a VM for her, her phone was shut off at that time. So are you saying that she was already doing all things that would need to be done to complete this elaborate "suicide" and then, and only then, she retrieves the VM from JS? Or is it possible that RZ, after speaking with her sister, put her cell phone to charge and started getting ready for bed as she was planning to bring JS a clean set of clothes in the morning? IMHO someone else checked that VM, if it ever really did exist.



So do you know for a fact that RZ used a passcode for her voicemails? I honestly know perhaps one person who does that. Her phone was not a business phone, it was her personal phone that she by her own phone records, used quite often. It seems to me that people who use their phones as frequently as RZ did, make them very accessible. Perhaps if LE would provide her family with her phone that question could be answered.



Yes, JS did tell LE what the content of that VM was. I wonder why JS didn't tell RZ these things while he was out to dinner with her earlier in the day. Did some kind nurse tell him that MS' condition was so dire that evening? It would be interesting to see which of MS' doctors were around at midnight that night to speak with JS.



Since you believe that JS told RZ to move out in the VM in question, why do you think he didn't supply LE with that information? Because he was so forthcoming with the content of his voicemail?

ALWAYS MOO

I assure you that Rady does have doctors at all hours.

It is useless to speculate which calls RZ chose not to answer or why they were not answered.

How do you know JS didn't supply LE with information? Just because LE didn't make everything public doesn't mean LE doesn't have all the information from Jonah.

 

[MyBelle]

Let's not forget that Dina also has a history of domestic violence as documented by police reports.

So weighing (pun not intended) Dina vs. Rebecca, Dina clearly wins hands down in the criminality division.

Dina wasn't present when her son incurred his injuries therefore her version of the incident isn't what Dr. Peterson discussed with police.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

BBM - Your link does not say anything about Jonah's call detail showing the call was made. This is what was in your link: "Detectives said the message was erased and officials will not confirm who left the voicemail."\

And the cell records do not confirm that ZAHAU listened to her voicemail for two minutes at 12:50 on July 13.

As long as LE is using people's "word" as part of an investigation, how about Mary's "word" that Rebecca would not kill herself, especially in this manner.

:shakehead:

Mary wasn't there so her "word" isn't evidence of anything at all. I don't believe it is at all uncommon that a family member doesn't believe their loved one committed suicide.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

This is, perhaps, one of reasons why the Z team received the cease and desist letter from JSs attorney.




RE the phone message that AB states "no one has ever heard", well, RZ heard it and then erased it. Perhaps RZ did not want anyone else to learn the contents of Jonah's message.

It is highly doubtful that DS or NR had RZs pass code for that performing that function just as much as it is doubtful that JS would lie about making the phone call to RZ knowing LE could obtain ph records.

jmho

I totally agree. Not only could LE obtain the records, LE did obtain the records. JS didn't control how or when LE chose to retrieve the actual message. I think RZ erased the message out of anger.

I do find the suggestions that DS or NR--or anybody else--sneaked into the mansion, spent all that time setting up a murder, stopped to listen to messages and at some point lugged a body to an outdoor balcony and heaved it over all to be far beyond the grasp of reality.

JMO

 

[kittychi]

I totally agree. Not only could LE obtain the records, LE did obtain the records. JS didn't control how or when LE chose to retrieve the actual message. I think RZ erased the message out of anger.

I do find the suggestions that DS or NR--or anybody else--sneaked into the mansion, spent all that time setting up a murder, stopped to listen to messages and at some point lugged a body to an outdoor balcony and heaved it over all to be far beyond the grasp of reality.

JMO

BBM...don't forget the binding of feet, binding of hands behind back, gagging with a tee shirt, painting the door before the heaving.

 

[bourne]

I totally agree. Not only could LE obtain the records, LE did obtain the records. JS didn't control how or when LE chose to retrieve the actual message. I think RZ erased the message out of anger.

I do find the suggestions that DS or NR--or anybody else--sneaked into the mansion, spent all that time setting up a murder, stopped to listen to messages and at some point lugged a body to an outdoor balcony and heaved it over all to be far beyond the grasp of reality.

JMO

BBM :waitasec: Huh? You find it "far beyond the grasp of reality" that Dina and/or Nina and/or anyone else could have staged the crime scene and murdered Rebecca in such an elaborate manner with so many detailed steps, and yet, you believe that Rebecca, independently on her own, could have concocted, implemented and executed such a detailed plan all on her own in a matter of ten minutes to maximum of 2 hours?

Recall, according to LE, Rebecca allegedly heard the "suicide trigger voicemail" of Jonah at 12:50am Wed. Since Rebecca's Time of Death was approximated to be around 1-3am Wed, presumably Rebecca had done the planning, gathering of materials, etc., and execution in 10 minutes to 2 hours.

I find it beyond preposterous and illogical to believe that one young petite 5'3" and 100 lb woman who was NEVER emotionally unstable or suicidal could have thought up, prepared, gathered knives, gloves, paints, paintbrushes, rope, etc. in a short span of 10mins to 2 hours paint a cryptic message on a bedroom door, and then with her feet tied, her wrists bound BEHIND HER BACK, t-shirt wrapped tightly around her neck 3x with sleeve cramped down her throat, and a noose around her neck, this small woman named Rebecca could have leaped or according to LE "slipped" over the balcony railing ON HER OWN but leave NO DNA/prints on balcony railing and virtually no prints on the dusty balcony floor except for one toeprint, AND shut the balcony door BEHIND HER and turned off the light BEHIND HER.

Yet, you would have us believe that Dina at around 5'8" & 185 lbs who has a DOCUMENTED HISTORY OF PHYSICAL AND DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND/OR her twin Nina at about 5'7, 175 lbs AND/OR with Adam at approx 5'9" & 170lbs are ALL TWO or THREE PEOPLE TOGETHER unable to devise an elaborate, torturous, murderous plan and carry out the murder of Rebecca? :scared: Your reasoning appears quite warped and illogical.