Rebecca's Death

[time]

You don't know if something is true yet you speculate it "worked?" You don't know for certain that LE "did not examine Dina."

Neither woman had any reason to place herself at the mansion if it wasn't true. I don't believe it is fair to accuse LE of a shoddy investigation when so many details of their investigation haven't been released. A year later, LE stands firm on their conclusion.

JMO

Even in blatant wrongful convicttions, you will find LE almost always stands by their original results so that is a moot point.

Right off the top of my head, but easily found if you'd care to look per a shoddy investigation:

* the call from Jonah to Rebecca in the middle of the night seems like an essential piece of LE's theory, yet they did not recover the message nor did they bother to inspect the phone for a month(?)

* The Sheriff and two search warrants claimed Redden said he was satisfied that Adam was telling the truth, that is not true. Redden suggested a second polygraph and made no claim of truth telling

* Nina's phone records don't appear to have been looked at (or times verified) even though the Sheriff claimed the eye witness really saw her at the house late at night and that it was not Dina, Nina says she told them on Tuesday that she was there and had called Rebecca late at night, and that she claims she sent that text at a different time than what Rebecca's records show

* Dina's DNA and so forth were not taken (that has been referenced at least twice here in the past week)

* It was claimed that Dina was at the hospital and that had been proven, yet when pressed it turns out only her phone was at the hospital


What I said was that if Nina did alibi Dina, it worked - that is because they did not thoroughly check Dina out nor her alibi (see above). Why? Evidently because they relied on her phone location and her own word on it that she was at the hospital - why is it that they can't verify that on video surveillance?

 

[time]

http://www.fox5sandiego.com/news/kswb-zahau-attorney-releases-first-details-of-police-report-20111101,0,526310.story

... only three people were processed and fingerprinted; Adam Shacknai, the brother of Zahau’s millionare boyfriend Jonah and the man who found her dead, Zahau’s 13-year-old sister, and Nina Romano, the twin sister of Jonah Shacknai’s ex-wife.

Neither Jonah nor Dina were processed nor fingerprinted

 

[time]

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/15941030/max-shacknais-aunt-at-mansion-hours-before-zahaus-death

Nov 05, 2011

I wanted to help the San Diego Sheriff's Department in any way that I could regarding Rebecca, so I voluntarily meet with them, gave them an interview and voluntarily gave them my DNA," wrote Romano [in an email to the news station]

That tone sounds quite different to me than her interview where she seems to complain about giving her DNA, clothes, and hair.

 

[inthedark14]

I also think that no one should discount the fact that LE left RZ's body exposed to the elements for thirteen hours. It really resonates with me that this happened. Maybe someone with LE insight could chime in but I would assume at the very least LE keeps a tarp in their scene kits in their vehicles. Certainly at least one of the many LE officers there that day could have secured any evidence lost to half a day in the sun. Overlooking the obvious disregard for a dead person the possible loss of evidence is reprehensible.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Snipped with respect by me.

Okay. So Rebecca and Mary spoke to each other at 9:25.

Then supposedly texted each other from 9:44 to 9:53. Why text? Why not speak?

Seems hinky to me.

It doesn't to me.

For the most part I don't text. But for comparison, many times I speak to my mom on the phone and a little while later remember something else I meant to tell her, and instead of calling her back (because, like Rebecca, I'm on the West Coast and, like Mary IIRC, it's later where my mom is in a different time zone, and I don't want to wake her if she's gone to bed already) I shoot her an email instead.

Just a possibility for text vs. phone.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I also think that no one should discount the fact that LE left RZ's body exposed to the elements for thirteen hours. It really resonates with me that this happened. Maybe someone with LE insight could chime in but I would assume at the very least LE keeps a tarp in their scene kits in their vehicles. Certainly at least one of the many LE officers there that day could have secured any evidence lost to half a day in the sun. Overlooking the obvious disregard for a dead person the possible loss of evidence is reprehensible.

ITA. I am so tired right now I can't remember the name of the young woman who disappeared from a concert? But when they found her remains, which were little more than bones as I recall, LE covered them with some sort of tent which I presume was to protect them from the prying eyes of the sensation-seeking media eye in the sky.

And that is not the only case I've seen that kind of thing take place.

By contrast we have poor RZ lying naked in the sun for hours, and as you say, apart from the indignity and disrespect, it could have resulted in the loss of crucial evidence. :maddening:

Thanking you wasn't enough.

 

[FightTheOstrich]

IMO,

I have to wonder if someone feels guilty for their involvement in "RZ's suicide" and needs Max's case to be reopened and classified as murder to justify the "suicide".

 

[screecher]

Possibly. All that anger and rage the guilty person had, obviously hasn't dissipated. Hence the presser, the media blitz...getting all the ducks in a row so to speak, for the final push- the civil suits.

 

[MyBelle]

Even in blatant wrongful convicttions, you will find LE almost always stands by their original results so that is a moot point.

Right off the top of my head, but easily found if you'd care to look per a shoddy investigation:

* the call from Jonah to Rebecca in the middle of the night seems like an essential piece of LE's theory, yet they did not recover the message nor did they bother to inspect the phone for a month(?)

* The Sheriff and two search warrants claimed Redden said he was satisfied that Adam was telling the truth, that is not true. Redden suggested a second polygraph and made no claim of truth telling

* Nina's phone records don't appear to have been looked at (or times verified) even though the Sheriff claimed the eye witness really saw her at the house late at night and that it was not Dina, Nina says she told them on Tuesday that she was there and had called Rebecca late at night, and that she claims she sent that text at a different time than what Rebecca's records show

* Dina's DNA and so forth were not taken (that has been referenced at least twice here in the past week)

* It was claimed that Dina was at the hospital and that had been proven, yet when pressed it turns out only her phone was at the hospital


What I said was that if Nina did alibi Dina, it worked - that is because they did not thoroughly check Dina out nor her alibi (see above). Why? Evidently because they relied on her phone location and her own word on it that she was at the hospital - why is it that they can't verify that on video surveillance?

BBM. You keep stating LE did not thoroughly check Dina out as though it is fact. LE has NOT said what they relied on to check her alibi. I'm pretty sure there would have been plenty of witnesses in a Pediatric ICU as to who was there.

JMO

 

[inthedark14]

BBM. You keep stating LE did not thoroughly check Dina out as though it is fact. LE has NOT said what they relied on to check her alibi. I'm pretty sure there would have been plenty of witnesses in a Pediatric ICU as to who was there.

JMO

So why didn't Gore state that actual people witnessed her being there? Where is there information that there is something other than a phone ping giving her whereabouts? If they were able to place here there, by more than the phone, wouldn't that have been stated? I can't imagine why LE wouldn't release that information, it would really help solidify their findings.

MOO

 

[MyBelle]

So why didn't Gore state that actual people witnessed her being there? Where is there information that there is something other than a phone ping giving her whereabouts? If they were able to place here there, by more than the phone, wouldn't that have been stated? I can't imagine why LE wouldn't release that information, it would really help solidify their findings.

MOO

I don't find it all all surprising that LE hasn't released all information in a case ruled suicide. Why did Gore need to state something that was already known? A hospital ICU has observers who are well aware who goes in and out of a patient's room. The idea that Dina could have departed the hospital without being noticed is pretty lame. Hospital security video would have captured her departing and returning at times other than what she told LE.

JMO

 

[*Lash*]

Right off the top of my head, but easily found if you'd care to look per a shoddy investigation:

* the call from Jonah to Rebecca in the middle of the night seems like an essential piece of LE's theory, yet they did not recover the message nor did they bother to inspect the phone for a month(?)

* The Sheriff and two search warrants claimed Redden said he was satisfied that Adam was telling the truth, that is not true. Redden suggested a second polygraph and made no claim of truth telling

* Nina's phone records don't appear to have been looked at (or times verified) even though the Sheriff claimed the eye witness really saw her at the house late at night and that it was not Dina, Nina says she told them on Tuesday that she was there and had called Rebecca late at night, and that she claims she sent that text at a different time than what Rebecca's records show

* Dina's DNA and so forth were not taken (that has been referenced at least twice here in the past week)

* It was claimed that Dina was at the hospital and that had been proven, yet when pressed it turns out only her phone was at the hospital

In my opinion LE did not fully verify Nina's alibi. LE was concerned enough to take Nina's fingerprints, a hair sample, clothes and a statement. A polygraph was scheduled and Nina cancelled. Not LE. Nina's phone records were not requested in any search warrants. In my opinion LE did not follow up with the details in Nina's statement. It appears LE took her for her word. This is a woman who admitted to being at the scene hours before a woman is found dead. LE sources stated, a violent death, a possible homicide and they don't follow up. Nonsensical.

LE has said they didn't need to follow up because we determined only Rebecca's DNA and fingerprints were found. Rebecca lived in the house, she painted and she cleaned. I would expect to find her DNA all over that house. No fingerprints could be lifted from the rope, but Rebecca's DNA was found in key areas on the rope. Well of course it was, she was bound by the rope in those key areas. How many unsolved murders are missing forensic evidence? How many murderers wear gloves? Why would LE allow the message on the door to be painted over and the handwritting not analyzed? A suicide theory that began with "a girl that hung herself" and an unheard voicemail. In my opinion, all of it is nonsensical.

 

[inthedark14]

I don't find it all all surprising that LE hasn't released all information in a case ruled suicide. Why did Gore need to state something that was already known? A hospital ICU has observers who are well aware who goes in and out of a patient's room. The idea that Dina could have departed the hospital without being noticed is pretty lame. Hospital security video would have captured her departing and returning at times other than what she told LE.



JMO

Please see previously posted by *Lash*

At the 9/2/2011 SDSO press conference Gore stated to the public that they confirmed Dina was at Children's Hospital. On 11/17/2011 the question changed and his answer changed at the press briefing after the Dr. Phil show to "her GPS triangulation" was confirmed. Not Dina herself, but her phone.

9/2-

REPORTER: Can you confirm where Dina was that night?

GORE: She was at Children's Hospital.


11/17-

REPORTER: Dina on surveillance tape.

GORE: [Peruses document for 20 seconds] We don’t have her on surveillance tape. Her position was determined through GPS triangulation on her cell phone, which put her in the vicinity of Rady's Children's Hospital.
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/index.html

I agree it is certainly lame to think that they wouldn't have her on video, but they DIDN'T, as clearly referenced by Gore himself. As for ICU staff noticing the comings and goings of people, I can only state that in my experience hospital staff are very busy and are not always aware of what is going on in the many rooms of the many patients they are responsible for. Especially on the night shift where there are far less caregivers.

Always MOO

 

[inthedark14]

In my opinion LE did not fully verify Nina's alibi. LE was concerned enough to take Nina's fingerprints, a hair sample, clothes and a statement. A polygraph was scheduled and Nina cancelled. Not LE. Nina's phone records were not requested in any search warrants. In my opinion LE did not follow up with the details in Nina's statement. It appears LE took her for her word. This is a woman who admitted to being at the scene hours before a woman is found dead. LE sources stated, a violent death, a possible homicide and they don't follow up. Nonsensical.

LE has said they didn't need to follow up because we determined only Rebecca's DNA and fingerprints were found. Rebecca lived in the house, she painted and she cleaned. I would expect to find her DNA all over that house. No fingerprints could be lifted from the rope, but Rebecca's DNA was found in key areas on the rope. Well of course it was, she was bound by the rope in those key areas. How many unsolved murders are missing forensic evidence? How many murderers wear gloves? Why would LE allow the message on the door to be painted over and the handwritting not analyzed? A suicide theory that began with "a girl that hung herself" and an unheard voicemail. In my opinion, all of it is nonsensical.

ITA Lash--

Also has it ever been determined if a box of those black latex gloves were found anywhere in the home? They must have come from somewhere, right?

 

[time]

In my opinion LE did not fully verify Nina's alibi. LE was concerned enough to take Nina's fingerprints, a hair sample, clothes and a statement. A polygraph was scheduled and Nina cancelled. Not LE. Nina's phone records were not requested in any search warrants. In my opinion LE did not follow up with the details in Nina's statement. It appears LE took her for her word. This is a woman who admitted to being at the scene hours before a woman is found dead. LE sources stated, a violent death, a possible homicide and they don't follow up. Nonsensical.

LE has said they didn't need to follow up because we determined only Rebecca's DNA and fingerprints were found. Rebecca lived in the house, she painted and she cleaned. I would expect to find her DNA all over that house. No fingerprints could be lifted from the rope, but Rebecca's DNA was found in key areas on the rope. Well of course it was, she was bound by the rope in those key areas. How many unsolved murders are missing forensic evidence? How many murderers wear gloves? Why would LE allow the message on the door to be painted over and the handwritting not analyzed? A suicide theory that began with "a girl that hung herself" and an unheard voicemail. In my opinion, all of it is nonsensical.

So we have two polygraphs of key people, one needed to be taken again (Adam) and the other (Nina) claimed she was too upset to take one (or something like that - suspicious). Why wouldn't they at least get her phone records?

There are just too many loose ends in this case. Dina really has no alibi per any evidence. I find that astounding.

I also found it interesting that the eye witness described completely different clothing/accessories than what Nina said she had on, but that was dismissed by LE. Interesting when they bothered to take Nina's clothing to check for evidence. No way do I think that was the clothing of the person seen at the house.

 

[time]

Originally Posted by MyBelle
I don't find it all all surprising that LE hasn't released all information in a case ruled suicide. Why did Gore need to state something that was already known? A hospital ICU has observers who are well aware who goes in and out of a patient's room. The idea that Dina could have departed the hospital without being noticed is pretty lame. Hospital security video would have captured her departing and returning at times other than what she told LE.

SDSD claims she was not captured on videotape which I think is curious in itself.

 

[MyBelle]

Please see previously posted by *Lash*




I agree it is certainly lame to think that they wouldn't have her on video, but they DIDN'T, as clearly referenced by Gore himself. As for ICU staff noticing the comings and goings of people, I can only state that in my experience hospital staff are very busy and are not always aware of what is going on in the many rooms of the many patients they are responsible for. Especially on the night shift where there are far less caregivers.

Always MOO

I think you misunderstood Gore. His reference was the window of Rebecca's death. Why would he even look at security video to prove times he already knew she was there? She met with doctors, didn't she? Did she remain mute to nurses and techs who flow nearly constantly in and out of an ICU room no matter the hour? Of course she wouldn't be seen on security video if she didn't leave/arrive at times other than when she said she did. It is impossible to produce video of actions that never happened.

In my experience, ICU staff do notice who is visiting in an ICU. Not just anyone is allowed to visit.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

In my opinion LE did not fully verify Nina's alibi. LE was concerned enough to take Nina's fingerprints, a hair sample, clothes and a statement. A polygraph was scheduled and Nina cancelled. Not LE. Nina's phone records were not requested in any search warrants. In my opinion LE did not follow up with the details in Nina's statement. It appears LE took her for her word. This is a woman who admitted to being at the scene hours before a woman is found dead. LE sources stated, a violent death, a possible homicide and they don't follow up. Nonsensical.

LE has said they didn't need to follow up because we determined only Rebecca's DNA and fingerprints were found. Rebecca lived in the house, she painted and she cleaned. I would expect to find her DNA all over that house. No fingerprints could be lifted from the rope, but Rebecca's DNA was found in key areas on the rope. Well of course it was, she was bound by the rope in those key areas. How many unsolved murders are missing forensic evidence? How many murderers wear gloves? Why would LE allow the message on the door to be painted over and the handwritting not analyzed? A suicide theory that began with "a girl that hung herself" and an unheard voicemail. In my opinion, all of it is nonsensical.

I have a much more difficult time believing that a physically strong, athletic woman like RZ would so willingly allow herself to be attacked by another woman yet not have a defensive mark on her. That RZ would willingly allow her hands/feet be tied, a noose placed around her neck, taken outdoors and would not fight or yell for help or put up any defense whatsoever. RZ's body IS forensic evidence.


JMO

 

[inthedark14]

I have a much more difficult time believing that a physically strong, athletic woman like RZ would so willingly allow herself to be attacked by another woman yet not have a defensive mark on her. That RZ would willingly allow her hands/feet be tied, a noose placed around her neck, taken outdoors and would not fight or yell for help or put up any defense whatsoever. RZ's body IS forensic evidence.


JMO

It's not known if RZ was attacked by a woman or not, all anyone is trying to do is fill in the holes in the information available.

As to be willingly attacked, does anyone ever get willingly attacked? However, in a surprise attack, perhaps a blow to the head came while sleeping or in the shower, it could subdue anyone. Even a physically strong, athletic woman.

Again not enough is known publicly to state anything is fact. Which is why everything is in question.

Always MOO

 

[kskiska]

I have a much more difficult time believing that a physically strong, athletic woman like RZ would so willingly allow herself to be attacked by another woman yet not have a defensive mark on her. That RZ would willingly allow her hands/feet be tied, a noose placed around her neck, taken outdoors and would not fight or yell for help or put up any defense whatsoever. RZ's body IS forensic evidence.


JMO

She couldn't put up much of a fight if she was knocked unconscious while exiting the shower, for instance. Hence, why she was nude, why a towel was found at the scene as well as explaining the multiple hemorrhages to her head.