Rebecca's Death

[MyBelle]

I do have a problem with wondering whether Gore was biased or not. He publicaly misrepresented the results of Adam Shacknai's LDT.

Biased how? Gore wasn't investigating this case all alone. It was a collective effort but if his constituents aren't happy they can always vote him out of office.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

In addition to the head injury Rebecca was tied with feet together. Was that to prevent kicking? Her hands were tied behind her back. Was that to keep her from fighting? She had unexplained tape reside on her legs. Were they taped to the chair during an interrigation? She had a thin ligature mark under the thicker rope mark. Was she garroted before he was hung? She had a blue tee shirt wrapped around her neck three times and stuffed in to her mouth. Was that done to keep her from crying for help?

I think RZ did those things to herself to make it appear she was murdered.

JMO

 

[freespeech]

The case hasn't been reopened. LE investigations usually are not transparent to the public. While you may want to know answers to your questions, nobody here can answer for the Sheriff. Dina does have a right to privacy and she isn't a suspect. The case is still ruled a suicide.

You're making some pretty wild allegations that both she, her sister and the Sheriff are all liars and possibly killers engaged in some kind of bizarre cover-up. I'm sorry but it is simply too far-fetched considering there was a a busy ICU/hospital complex where both Dina and Nina were seen and also bno evidence whatsoever of any kind of struggle on or anywhere near RZ's body.

JMO

I'm not making allegations. I am formulating other possible senarios that the police investigation may have missed. Since the investigation was not transparentent as you said many including the Zahaus are concerned that the ruling was not correct.

Just as Dina has a right to question Max's accident so do the Zahaus have a right to question Rebecca's death. Just as there are forums that tend to support Dina's view that the police investigation is allowed to be questioned in Max's case but not Rebecca's so there is this thread for discussing the possiblity that the police rushed to the judgement of suicide here.

 

[Quester]

Aren’t there usually, at least a few, "verified insiders" on each of the cases we see here on WS?

Are there any "verified insiders" on the RZ/MS cases? TIA

 

[MyBelle]

I'm not making allegations. I am formulating other possible senarios that the police investigation may have missed. Since the investigation was not transparentent as you said many including the Zahaus are concerned that the ruling was not correct.

Just as Dina has a right to question Max's accident so do the Zahaus have a right to question Rebecca's death. Just as there are forums that tend to support Dina's view that the police investigation is allowed to be questioned in Max's case but not Rebecca's so there is this thread for discussing the possiblity that the police rushed to the judgement of suicide here.

You are not questioning Rebecca's death, you're questioning the actions of Max's mother, aunt and also the Sheriff even though the Sheriff has cleared both of any wrong-doing. You haven't provided a single link to support your contention that it is a "possibility" that either woman is involved or lied.

I understand RZ's family was not in agreement with the LE ruling of suicide, however that doesn't mean the ruling was incorrect. Other possible scenarios are impossible to investigate if there is no evidence to support the scenario and so far, the LE has refused their request to re-open the investigation.

JMO

 

[freespeech]

You are not questioning Rebecca's death, you're questioning the actions of Max's mother, aunt and also the Sheriff even though the Sheriff has cleared both of any wrong-doing. You haven't provided a single link to support your contention that it is a "possibility" that either woman is involved or lied.

I understand RZ's family was not in agreement with the LE ruling of suicide, however that doesn't mean the ruling was incorrect. Other possible scenarios are impossible to investigate if there is no evidence to support the scenario and so far, the LE has refused their request to re-open the investigation.

JMO

Others also have questions.

According to Cyril Wecht: "Renowned forensic pathologist Dr. Cyril Wecht expressed "grave and serious doubts" that the woman found bound, naked and hanging at her boyfriend's Coronado, Calif., mansion killed herself...Wecht said Zahau may have been knocked unconscious, which could explain why there are not defensive injuries on her body consistent with that of a struggle.

He agreed with the original autopsy report's conclusion that Zahau's cause of death was hanging, but he suggested she might have been placed in the noose.

Wecht also questioned the investigators' conclusion that Zahau had thrown herself over the balcony. "We have no fracture of the cervical vertebrae [neck]," said Wecht. "That bothers me greatly with this kind of situation." He suggested changing the manner of death from "suicide" to "undetermined" on Zahau's death certificate."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/coronado-mansion-death-rebecca-zahau-knocked-unconscious/story?id=14955832#.UC6MtN2PUWI[/url]


According to Dr. Phil: "On Monday Dr. Phil McGraw said on his television show he thinks the case involving the death of Rebecca Zahau should and could be reopened. After a second autopsy he believes there are inconsistencies in the case.

Dr. Phil talked with 3 TV as well.
"There is also some physical evidence that was mentioned but not explained in both autopsies, and I think there's going to have to be some further investigation before this can be ruled a suicide," said McGraw."

http://ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=1470566


According to Dr. Drew: According to Dr. Drew the knots tied to rope on Rebecca seemed "incredibly complex" and didn't seem likely that she tied them.

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2011/09/08/dr-drew-reacts-knotting-expert


According to Dr. Godman: "Dr. Maurice Godwin, a forensic expert hired by the Zahau family, told RadarOnline.com that a shoe impression on the carpet in the bedroom is unknown and may not have come from police but from someone else not yet identified...."The toe is actually underneath the foot of the bed," Dr. Godwin told RadarOnline.com about the shoe print in the photo given to RadarOnline.com that was part of the police evidence. "This could suggest that it is likely not from the police."

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/rebecca-zahau-death-shoe-print-found-bedroom


According to Dr. James Lauridson: "He described the case as "highly suspicious," especially because bodies are usually found hanging a short distance from where they were anchored. The rope around Zahau's neck, however, was 9 feet, 2 inches long.

"A long-drop hanging is just like, wow -- I personally have never seen a suicide do a long drop," he said.

After reviewing Zahau's first autopsy, Lauridson noted the only tissues that appeared to have been examined under the microscope were from her heart, liver and an endometrial polyp.

"None of those have anything to do with the death here," he said.

In a typical suicide, Lauridson added, a detailed tissue analysis isn't necessary. But because this is an unusual case, such an examination could prove crucial."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/coronado-m...dr-cyril-wecht/story?id=14821376#.UC6LCd2PUWI

 

[time]

Aren’t there usually, at least a few, "verified insiders" on each of the cases we see here on WS?

Are there any "verified insiders" on the RZ/MS cases? TIA

Rebecca Nalepa case
Chasing.halos verified local/insider

There is another poster on here who was an unverified insider, transparents-see. I hope he/she will become verified.

 

[Peaceful]

Who should I contact if I want to be a verified insider?

 

[freespeech]

You are not questioning Rebecca's death, you're questioning the actions of Max's mother, aunt and also the Sheriff even though the Sheriff has cleared both of any wrong-doing. You haven't provided a single link to support your contention that it is a "possibility" that either woman is involved or lied.

I understand RZ's family was not in agreement with the LE ruling of suicide, however that doesn't mean the ruling was incorrect. Other possible scenarios are impossible to investigate if there is no evidence to support the scenario and so far, the LE has refused their request to re-open the investigation.

JMO

Did Rebecca or her sister murder Max? I thought L.E. proved that that was accidental. Why is a dead woman and her sister being accused of murder then?

I strongly feel BOTH cases should be re-examined and I'll tell you why. If Dina can prove that L.E. was wrong in their determination that Max was an accident victim and if it can be proven that she believed Dr. Peterson's suggestion that Max had been strangled then I feel she should be looked at more closely as a possible suspect in Rebecca's death.

Is it wrong to think or say that? If so can you please say why you think so? TIA.

 

[MyBelle]

Others also have questions.

According to Cyril Wecht: "Renowned forensic pathologist Dr. Cyril Wecht expressed "grave and serious doubts" that the woman found bound, naked and hanging at her boyfriend's Coronado, Calif., mansion killed herself...Wecht said Zahau may have been knocked unconscious, which could explain why there are not defensive injuries on her body consistent with that of a struggle.

He agreed with the original autopsy report's conclusion that Zahau's cause of death was hanging, but he suggested she might have been placed in the noose.

Wecht also questioned the investigators' conclusion that Zahau had thrown herself over the balcony. "We have no fracture of the cervical vertebrae [neck]," said Wecht. "That bothers me greatly with this kind of situation." He suggested changing the manner of death from "suicide" to "undetermined" on Zahau's death certificate."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/coronado-mansion-death-rebecca-zahau-knocked-unconscious/story?id=14955832#.UC6MtN2PUWI[/url]


According to Dr. Phil: "On Monday Dr. Phil McGraw said on his television show he thinks the case involving the death of Rebecca Zahau should and could be reopened. After a second autopsy he believes there are inconsistencies in the case.

Dr. Phil talked with 3 TV as well.
"There is also some physical evidence that was mentioned but not explained in both autopsies, and I think there's going to have to be some further investigation before this can be ruled a suicide," said McGraw."

http://ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=1470566


According to Dr. Drew: According to Dr. Drew the knots tied to rope on Rebecca seemed "incredibly complex" and didn't seem likely that she tied them.

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2011/09/08/dr-drew-reacts-knotting-expert


According to Dr. Godman: "Dr. Maurice Godwin, a forensic expert hired by the Zahau family, told RadarOnline.com that a shoe impression on the carpet in the bedroom is unknown and may not have come from police but from someone else not yet identified...."The toe is actually underneath the foot of the bed," Dr. Godwin told RadarOnline.com about the shoe print in the photo given to RadarOnline.com that was part of the police evidence. "This could suggest that it is likely not from the police."

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/rebecca-zahau-death-shoe-print-found-bedroom


According to Dr. James Lauridson: "He described the case as "highly suspicious," especially because bodies are usually found hanging a short distance from where they were anchored. The rope around Zahau's neck, however, was 9 feet, 2 inches long.

"A long-drop hanging is just like, wow -- I personally have never seen a suicide do a long drop," he said.

After reviewing Zahau's first autopsy, Lauridson noted the only tissues that appeared to have been examined under the microscope were from her heart, liver and an endometrial polyp.

"None of those have anything to do with the death here," he said.

In a typical suicide, Lauridson added, a detailed tissue analysis isn't necessary. But because this is an unusual case, such an examination could prove crucial."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/coronado-m...dr-cyril-wecht/story?id=14821376#.UC6LCd2PUWI

I don't see anyone on those links questioning the whereabouts of Dina or Nina or demanding to know why the Sheriff cleared them.

I certainly am not an expert but I don't view this case as a typical suicide. I don't believe many suicides go to such lengths to make it appear to be a homicide.

JMO

 

[time]

Who should I contact if I want to be a verified insider?

From the Professional/Insider page:

If a member wants to post as a professional ( a lawyer, shrink, and so on) or as a local/knows the people involved then they must email us at the following email.
[email protected]
Please include:
The case
Your Websleuths name
Your phone number and a good time to call
Your real name.
In the subject line please put which case they are asking to be verified on.
All info will be kept strictly confidential

 

[Salem]

Who should I contact if I want to be a verified insider?

It's always a good idea to start with a Mod - but you can find the rules for verification right here: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167277"]Rules Verification Process for Professional or Insider Posters - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Thanks for considering becoming verified!

Salem

 

[MyBelle]

Did Rebecca or her sister murder Max? I thought L.E. proved that that was accidental. Why is a dead woman and her sister being accused of murder then?

I strongly feel BOTH cases should be re-examined and I'll tell you why. If Dina can prove that L.E. was wrong in their determination that Max was an accident victim and if it can be proven that she believed Dr. Peterson's suggestion that Max had been strangled then I feel she should be looked at more closely as a possible suspect in Rebecca's death.

Is it wrong to think or say that? If so can you please say why you think so? TIA.

I don't share your opinion that a mother would choose murder rather than let LE at least launch an investigation. LE DID launch an investigation into RZ's death as a homicide and they cleared Dina and ruled suicide. That's enough for me. LE has NEVER investigated Max's death as a homicide and therein is the difference.

It is impossible for LE to prove Max's death was an accident because there were no actual witnesses to his fall according to RZ and her sister. If Dina has information that affects the credibility of these witnesses, of course she should bring it to attention of LE. It is stunning that she expressed her concerns to JS and her worst fears were realized because her requests were ignored.

JMO

 

[freespeech]

I don't see anyone on those links questioning the whereabouts of Dina or Nina or demanding to know why the Sheriff cleared them.

I certainly am not an expert but I don't view this case as a typical suicide. I don't believe many suicides go to such links to make it appear to be a homicide.

JMO

The experts do not accuse anyone of murdering Rebecca. They imply that there were reasons to believe a strong possibility that she was murdered.

The links provided show why people question whether Rebecca killed herself or was murdered. If Rebecca did not kill herself then who would have had access by proximity and knowledge of the premises as well as the motive to kill her?

Has Dina proved that Rebecca and her sister harmed Max...or if Max was suffocated as Dr. Peterson believed? If and when that happens would it be acceptable then to wonder if Dina may have possibly had a motive to murder Rebecca?

Under what circumstances would the police look for a suspect in Rebecca Zahau's death? Would they look at close associates and possible enemies? Just wondering if she was murdered who would have had motive and how they could have pulled it off.

I don't know who did it. Adam was on the property that night. A witness claimed they saw DINA there and not Nina. Neighbors heard a scream and loud music played. There were mysterious unaccounted for footprints at the scene as well minimal dust disturbance on the balcony. LE has absolutely no proof what so ever that Rebecca received a disturbing voice mail message from Jonah. They also have no proof that she was violent, depressed, psychotic, had extensive knot tying ability or was otherwise disturbed so why not question and wonder about this?

 

[MyBelle]

The experts do not accuse anyone of murdering Rebecca. They imply that there were reasons to believe a strong possibility that she was murdered.

The links provided show why people question that Rebecca killed herself. If Rebecca did not kill herself then who would have had access by proximity and knowledge of the premises as well as the motive to kill her?

Has Dina proved that Rebecca and her sister harmed Max...or if Max was suffocated as Dr. Peterson believed? If and when that happens would it be acceptable then to wonder if Dina may have possibly had a motive to murder Rebecca?

LE investigated the possibility RZ was murdered and they ruled suicide. Not everybody will accept it but that's the way our system works.

Dina doesn't have to prove RZ harmed Max. She's leaving it in the hands of LE. I seriously doubt if she murdered RZ, she would wait a year, hire expensive experts and request a more thorough investigation of her son's death. She's inviting closer scrutiny upon herself.

JMO

 

[freespeech]

LE investigated the possibility RZ was murdered and they ruled suicide. Not everybody will accept it but that's the way our system works.

Dina doesn't have to prove RZ harmed Max. She's leaving it in the hands of LE. I seriously doubt if she murdered RZ, she would wait a year, hire expensive experts and request a more thorough investigation of her son's death. She's inviting closer scrutiny upon herself.

JMO

MaBelle, I accept that you don't believe Rebecca was murdered and I am OK with that but I do believe she was murdered and I wonder who could have done it.

Yes, I wonder if Dina may have done it. Am I accusing her? Of course not. I wasn't there so I don't know. I am just wondering how she would have done it if she did do it and how that would have been possible. If LE would have supported their speculations with FACTS then I and many others would not be questioning this.

You choose to believe LE's findings in Rebecca's case only whether those findings and scientifically supported or not. That is your right to do so.

I choose to examine their findings in depth and question the discrepancies. That is my right, no?

 

[time]

I'm having a difficult time believing Rebecca committed suicide in this bizarre and complicated manner. How on earth can anyone believe she not only did that but also set it up to look like a murder. Although, I do agree it certainly looks like a murder.

 

[freespeech]

Does any one know how direct sunlight affects DNA samples? I was wondering about the mixed DNA under Rebecca's fingernails. Would exposure to mid-July sunlight during peak hours (7:00 a.m.- 7:00 p.m.) tend to degrade DNA thus causing it to be interpretable. I'm wondering if anyone in forensics has ever seen a table that shows rates of how this happens if it does. Would it be related to the body's decomposition process?

Also, has anyone heard or read about methods of rendering uninterpretable DNA interpretable?

Does anyone have references to who took care of the mansion when Jonah was not there? I believe that it was mentioned early on that there was a family and a tenant who lived on the property in the guest house? I also recall a report that they were asked to leave after Max's accident. Does anyone know what happened to them or if they were ever interviewed by police?

 

[time]

Does any one know how direct sunlight affects DNA samples? I was wondering about the mixed DNA under Rebecca's fingernails. Would exposure to mid-July sunlight during peak hours (7:00 a.m.- 7:00 p.m.) tend to degrade DNA thus causing it to be interpretable. I'm wondering if anyone in forensics has ever seen a table that shows rates of how this happens if it does. Would it be related to the body's decomposition process?

Also, has anyone heard or read about methods of rendering uninterpretable DNA interpretable?

Does anyone have references to who took care of the mansion when Jonah was not there? I believe that it was mentioned early on that there was a family and a tenant who lived on the property in the guest house? I also recall a report that they were asked to leave after Max's accident. Does anyone know what happened to them or if they were ever interviewed by police?

I'm no expert but this publication by the National Institute of Justice says

Several factors can effect DNA at a crime scene, including environmental factors (e.g., heat, sunlight, moisture, bacteria, mold). Therefore not all DNA evidence will result in a usable DNA profile.

There could be more, I just read the first couple of pages.


https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...ESqFET&sig=AHIEtbQQGLSI6iSdfOo9qfYlCJvsmuEpTg

 

[time]

I wonder if they sampled for DNA near where the tape residue was found on her legs?