reference to "hacked phone records... JR phoned lawyer before police" AND...

[David Rogers]

There seems to be some discrepancy in the Phone call to Fleet White. Here is what I saw on Forums for Justice.

Mike Bynum called Fleet White about 4 in the afternoon of December 26, 1996 while the Whites and the Ramsey's were at Fernie's house. An hour later, White went to Bynum's office where he was told: "Haddon, Morgan, and Foreman have been hired to 'handle' this ...you are to STAY OUT OF IT."

This was 3 hours and 45 minutes after Fleet and John found the body. IMO it would be impossible for Bynum to provide enough information to retain Haddon
UNLESS he started the process before the body was "found".

Lawyering JonBenet

 

[UKGuy]

There seems to be some discrepancy in the Phone call to Fleet White. Here is what I saw on Forums for Justice.

Mike Bynum called Fleet White about 4 in the afternoon of December 26, 1996 while the Whites and the Ramsey's were at Fernie's house. An hour later, White went to Bynum's office where he was told: "Haddon, Morgan, and Foreman have been hired to 'handle' this ...you are to STAY OUT OF IT."

This was 3 hours and 45 minutes after Fleet and John found the body. IMO it would be impossible for Bynum to provide enough information to retain Haddon
UNLESS he started the process before the body was "found".

David Rogers,
Sure there is some discrepancy, that's the point. Its a fake version of events, allegedly fabricated to mask that Haddon et al was hired prior to JonBenet being found.

Best of luck parsing the Forums for Justice posts, many posters are quoting PMPT or their favorite source, etc. PMPT was allegedly written with input from Team Ramsey including DA Hunter.

An indication of this is if you compare Kolar's account of Dr Andrew Sirotnak's findings with Schiller's account.

Kolar describes prior sexual contact, Schiller refers to vaginal injury and that the facts surrounding the sexual assault of the child were unclear.

Later Team Ramsey complained to Hunter and BPD about any reference to sexual assault, so this aspect was changed to Vaginal Trauma see Steve Thomas and JonBenet Inside The Ramsey Murder Investigation for further clarity.

All the above should not detract from folks recognizing that John Ramsey's version of events is After The Fact and does not coincide with other participants timeline.

 

[David Rogers]

Thanks.

 

[root661]

I have no direct knowledge but isn't it possible that IF John called his attorney first it was something like this?
John: "Hey I need some help and advice, JonBenet's been taken for ransom and we have this note that says "..." We want her back! Should we just wait and pay the ransom? Can you help me get the money together?"

Attorney: "YOU HAVE TO CALL THE POLICE. HANG UP AND DO THAT NOW."

I am not saying this happened (or didn't) just saying that even if they called their attorney before calling the police it isn't necessarily proof of wrong doing...

 

[UKGuy]

I have no direct knowledge but isn't it possible that IF John called his attorney first it was something like this?
John: "Hey I need some help and advice, JonBenet's been taken for ransom and we have this note that says "..." We want her back! Should we just wait and pay the ransom? Can you help me get the money together?"

Attorney: "YOU HAVE TO CALL THE POLICE. HANG UP AND DO THAT NOW."

I am not saying this happened (or didn't) just saying that even if they called their attorney before calling the police it isn't necessarily proof of wrong doing...

root661,
Sure, that scenario is entirely possible. There is no law saying you cannot phone for legal advice.

The issue is that both John Ramsey and his civil attorney Mike Bynum state separately that any discussion on legal representation took place long after the day JonBenet was discovered.

Yet John Ramsey's criminal attorney Bryan Morgan, et al were attempting to contact Fleet White on the day JonBenet was found, to arrange an interview, which eventually took place.

Yet John Ramsey and Mike Bynum say the topic of attorney's etc never arose until the day after JonBenet was found.

How did that happen?

.

 

[root661]

root661,
Sure, that scenario is entirely possible. There is no law saying you cannot phone for legal advice.

The issue is that both John Ramsey and his civil attorney Mike Bynum state separately that any discussion on legal representation took place long after the day JonBenet was discovered.

Yet John Ramsey's criminal attorney Bryan Morgan, et al were attempting to contact Fleet White on the day JonBenet was found, to arrange an interview, which eventually took place.

Yet John Ramsey and Mike Bynum say the topic of attorney's etc never arose until the day after JonBenet was found.

How did that happen?

.

UKGuy,

I don't disagree with you. I just personally think it's helpful to play devil's advocate with "evidence" to separate out what is truly hard evidence vs what supports my theory. I think there are a lot of possibilities with regards to phone calls because we are working with very limited information. Seeing the phone records of all the known phones in the house that night would be very enlightening.
I also want to know WHY PR was allowed to get away with "I don't know the cell phone numbers"? What? Really? What wife doesn't know how to find her husband? That one is a bridge too far for me...

 

[proust20]

Any phone calls before PR's 911 alter the timeline. When the RN should have been composed has to be pushed back.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,

I don't disagree with you. I just personally think it's helpful to play devil's advocate with "evidence" to separate out what is truly hard evidence vs what supports my theory. I think there are a lot of possibilities with regards to phone calls because we are working with very limited information. Seeing the phone records of all the known phones in the house that night would be very enlightening.
I also want to know WHY PR was allowed to get away with "I don't know the cell phone numbers"? What? Really? What wife doesn't know how to find her husband? That one is a bridge too far for me...

root661,
Sure, I agree test the evidence etc, see what fits and what doesn't.

Yes the phone logs for the night/morning JonBenet died would enlighten us. Patsy might have been being truthful about not knowing JR's cellphone number, they were allegedly new cellphones, one purchased by Patsy and the other by Access Graphics.

I give Patsy a pass on this one as I do not know my own cellphone number, being old school I can list all the area codes for the city I live in, but cellphone numbers are a mystery to me.

What Patsy failed to say was I have John's number on my cellphone, so I'll write it down for you.

What Patsy might have been doing was telling a cover story for John's cellphone being missing, as she says John lost his and spotted a panasonic cellphone Patsy had just purchased and John took it saying OK this will do.

Critically Patsy says she purchased her cellphone at Christmas, meaning John had recently lost his and claimed Patsy's new cellphone, how convenient is that?

That is John's missing cellphone may have been used to phone for legal advice prior to the 911 call?

.

 

[root661]

"What Patsy failed to say was I have John's number on my cellphone, so I'll write it down for you."

Yes! This is exactly what I meant. I can believe she couldn't remember the digits at the time but not that she didn't have easy access to it. She was playing a game of 20 questions, ie I will answer exactly what you ask me and nothing more. If she had the presence of mind to this, she had the presence of mind to give them ALL of John's numbers.

 

[David Rogers]

I have no direct knowledge but isn't it possible that IF John called his attorney first it was something like this?
John: "Hey I need some help and advice, JonBenet's been taken for ransom and we have this note that says "..." We want her back! Should we just wait and pay the ransom? Can you help me get the money together?"

Attorney: "YOU HAVE TO CALL THE POLICE. HANG UP AND DO THAT NOW."

I am not saying this happened (or didn't) just saying that even if they called their attorney before calling the police it isn't necessarily proof of wrong doing...

But there are claims that there were at least three phone calls about 3am. One to The lawyer and one to the pediatrician and a third which I have found no reference to. I’m still looking for that Peter Boyles radio show where he hints he saw the records.

 

[proust20]

If JR did in fact use a phone before the 911 call, it is intriguing that he was not the one to make the 911 itself. If he were already on the phone, why not just stay on it? Perhaps, he'd not want to spoil PR's big moment after all her rehearsal?

But, if one found a ransom note that warned not to contact the police, it'd be reasonable to seek an attorney's counsel as to how to proceed. A lawyer could have told the Rs to contact LE regardless. Not that I truly believe this; although, the Rs don't really explain cogently why they did place the 911 call. Didn't they take the RN seriously?

 

[UKGuy]

If JR did in fact use a phone before the 911 call, it is intriguing that he was not the one to make the 911 itself. If he were already on the phone, why not just stay on it? Perhaps, he'd not want to spoil PR's big moment after all her rehearsal?

But, if one found a ransom note that warned not to contact the police, it'd be reasonable to seek an attorney's counsel as to how to proceed. A lawyer could have told the Rs to contact LE regardless. Not that I truly believe this; although, the Rs don't really explain cogently why they did place the 911 call. Didn't they take the RN seriously?

proust20,

If JR did in fact use a phone before the 911 call, it is intriguing that he was not the one to make the 911 itself. If he were already on the phone, why not just stay on it? Perhaps, he'd not want to spoil PR's big moment after all her rehearsal?

Stayng on the phone and using it to dial 911 would reveal he had phoned for legal advice prior to phoning 911.

The R's likely placed the 911 call on advice recieved from their legal source.


IMO John used the cellphone Patsy purchased for him to make those early morning calls for legal advice.

Assuming Patsy did purchase the used phone then it should be tracable via its purchase record and cellphone use as per its unique cellphone identifier for use in disparate networks, thereby revealing the cellphone logs.

The R's had a get out clause in the Do Not Contact area, and since they authored the RN, they do not need to eat their own dog-food.

.

 

[proust20]

Calling an attorney for advice given the contents of the RN would not in itself be an indication of guilt. Any parent could be perplexed about the proper course of action in such a predicament. If JR admitted to pre-911 calls, it'd underscore that the Rs took the RN seriously. Maybe the Rs invited people over on the 26th due to legal advice?

Needless to say, the RN and the staging would have to have been completed before any calls could be made.

 

[UKGuy]

There seems to be some discrepancy in the Phone call to Fleet White. Here is what I saw on Forums for Justice.

Mike Bynum called Fleet White about 4 in the afternoon of December 26, 1996 while the Whites and the Ramsey's were at Fernie's house. An hour later, White went to Bynum's office where he was told: "Haddon, Morgan, and Foreman have been hired to 'handle' this ...you are to STAY OUT OF IT."

This was 3 hours and 45 minutes after Fleet and John found the body. IMO it would be impossible for Bynum to provide enough information to retain Haddon
UNLESS he started the process before the body was "found".

David Rogers,
Here is a similar account regarding Mike Bynum allegedly phoning Fleet White.

On December 26, just hours after finding the body, Fleet was surprised to get a call from Mike Bynum, an attorney and Ramsey family friend who'd offered to help John and Patsy find appropriate representation and had fended off initial police attempts to formally interview the parents. The next day, Fleet had his first interview with the police detectives -- and then, at Bynum's request, went to the lawyer's office late that afternoon, where he was introduced to an attorney from the prestigious law firm of Haddon, Morgan and Foreman, as well as a private investigator. Team Ramsey wanted its own debriefing on what Fleet had seen and done.

JonBenet Ramsey: How the Investigation Got Derailed -- and Why It Still Matters

JonBenet Archive
Denver News and Events | Articles & Archives | Westword

Peter Boyles Interviews former housekeeper Linda Wilcox
https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenet/comments/57u2b2/an_interesting_peek_into_family_dynamics_as_told/

Here is a link to Fleet and Priscilla White being interviewed on the Peter Boyles Show along with the author of the article.
Foreign Faction - Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet?

They were also uploaded to YouTube and Reddit.

.

 

[David Rogers]

Calling an attorney for advice given the contents of the RN would not in itself be an indication of guilt. Any parent could be perplexed about the proper course of action in such a predicament. If JR admitted to pre-911 calls, it'd underscore that the Rs took the RN seriously. Maybe the Rs invited people over on the 26th due to legal advice?

Needless to say, the RN and the staging would have to have been completed before any calls could be made.

We are not talking about advise whether to call the police. This is about a multiple calls three hours before the 911 call. Supposedly a call to a lawyer, the Pediatrician and another call. Why would you call your pediatrician 3 hours before you call 911? The same pediatrician who put Jonbenet’s medical records in a safety deposit box then claimed the box was opened illegally?

 

[David Rogers]

Peter Boyles Show - Dec 18, 2014 - Hr 3 - Peter Boyles Show - Omny.fm


39 minutes mark

Priscilla says that Fleet got a call from Mike Bynum on the afternoon of the 26th. Fleet went to Bynum office the next day.

 

[root661]

We are not talking about advise whether to call the police. This is about a multiple calls three hours before the 911 call. Supposedly a call to a lawyer, the Pediatrician and another call. Why would you call your pediatrician 3 hours before you call 911? The same pediatrician who put Jonbenet’s medical records in a safety deposit box then claimed the box was opened illegally?

Is there a link to this or audio? I did listen to what has been posted in this thread but I only heard reference to attorney calls after JBR was found. I agree that phone records that you alluded to above would be relevant but I haven't found that yet. If I missed it, please forgive me.

 

[UKGuy]

Peter Boyles Show - Dec 18, 2014 - Hr 3 - Peter Boyles Show - Omny.fm


39 minutes mark

Priscilla says that Fleet got a call from Mike Bynum on the afternoon of the 26th. Fleet went to Bynum office the next day.

David Rogers,
So its as you suggested. Yet JR and Bynum say they never discussed legal issues until Dec 27th at the Fernies, from memory?

.

 

[David Rogers]

Is there a link to this or audio? I did listen to what has been posted in this thread but I only heard reference to attorney calls after JBR was found. I agree that phone records that you alluded to above would be relevant but I haven't found that yet. If I missed it, please forgive me.

I’m still trying to find a link to this show that talks about the hacked phone records. I did find this.

Is there a link to this or audio? I did listen to what has been posted in this thread but I only heard reference to attorney calls after JBR was found. I agree that phone records that you alluded to above would be relevant but I haven't found that yet. If I missed it, please forgive me.

I’m still looking for the radio program. I did find this;
Protecting Consumers' Phone Records

 

[root661]

I’m still trying to find a link to this show that talks about the hacked phone records. I did find this.

I’m still looking for the radio program. I did find this;
Protecting Consumers' Phone Records

Thank you for this. If you do ever find the reference to anyone actually seeing the phone records, please do let me know.