Rehashing, debating and discussing the evidence

[Intermezzo]

Another thing.....didnt the DT have the opportunity to grill GA about the abuse while he was on the stand. I seem to remember them glossing over it as well as the claims they made about GA in the OS. Or am I not remembering that correctly?

Baez accused Lee in his opening statement as well, he could have grilled Lee but Baez didn't go there...:waitasec: wonder why?

 

[LambChop]

Baez accused Lee in his opening statement as well, he could have grilled Lee but Baez didn't go there...:waitasec: wonder why?

I think JB was hoping LA would cooperate and he backed out. If this is true, good for him. KC has proven herself to be unworthy of any human relationships. jmo

 

[logicalgirl]

Baez accused Lee in his opening statement as well, he could have grilled Lee but Baez didn't go there...:waitasec: wonder why?

One Word: Fear - also known as "Don't Ever Ask a Question When You Don't Know The Answer You Will Get"- especially when you are asking a Wild Card.

 

[PeteyGirl]

From the OP:

Rehashing, debating and discussing the evidence

Let's DO that Let's NOT rehash, debate or discuss personal speculation as if it WERE evidence.

 

[LambChop]

Okay, you know what I don't understand. The picture taken of Caylee at the sliding glass door which is suppose to depict her opening it. Someone took a picture of her at the door and if she was, in fact, trying to open the door would you not be concerned that in the very near future she could open that door and yet when CA was asked had they taken any extra precautions, safety bar, lock and alarm at the top, etc. CA said no. Knowing how anal, CA is would this be something she would have overlooked?

Given numerous opportunities to tell authories, her parents, her attorney it was an accident, Caylee drowned, KC continued to try and get people into trouble by having them bear the responsibility of the death of her child, her child. Now she wants everyone to believe it was just an accident and she panicked. But what about all the lives she destroyed in the 3 years she kept quiet. Do they not matter in the scheme of things because KC wants everyone to believe that she is the one and only victum here. She even blames her daughter for her own death.

She can't lie to her probation officer but she can have her team lie to NE. They truly must feel foolish tonight to have bought that rubbish. jmo

 

[belle3]

Sadly I think both RK and GA need to be investigated properly.
JB did made a big scene about how the prosecution did NOT get the phone records. It would have confused the issue. JB was not trying to add another murderer theory into the mix. Again his job was to defend. His job was not necessarily to put forward a theory. Adding extensive info on RK would have confused the jury if you went into any further detail. The most important information was that he messed with the remains bringing reasonable doubt to the evidence.

While I understand that it was JB responsibility to defend his client, in said defense, wouldnt it have been in his clients interest to obtain a supboena for those records ahead of the trial to properly defend his client? As far as reasonable doubt to the evidence, are you saying that RK somehow had access to caylees clothes, blankets and put them there along with duct tape that also came from the anthony home. Because then that kind of messing with evidence would seem to imply some reasonable doubt.
I try to strip it down and forget about the chloroform,and even the duct tape, but everything else still remains. A baby in bags around the corner from her house reduced to bones with a mother and defense team crying missing, while later admitting to the world that oops sorry we put you all through that missing stuff. Shes dead. my client has known since the afternoon of the 16thof June 2008, but she was maybe molested so its cool. I dont understand how there is any excuse on this earth for what happened to Caylee Marie Anthony, but we live in a world where excuses for bad behavior are the rule and not the exception. all imo!

 

[txsvicki]

Okay, you know what I don't understand. The picture taken of Caylee at the sliding glass door which is suppose to depict her opening it. Someone took a picture of her at the door and if she was, in fact, trying to open the door would you not be concerned that in the very near future she could open that door and yet when CA was asked had they taken any extra precautions, safety bar, lock and alarm at the top, etc. CA said no. Knowing how anal, CA is would this be something she would have overlooked?

Given numerous opportunities to tell authories, her parents, her attorney it was an accident, Caylee drowned, KC continued to try and get people into trouble by having them bear the responsibility of the death of her child, her child. Now she wants everyone to believe it was just an accident and she panicked. But what about all the lives she destroyed in the 3 years she kept quiet. Do they not matter in the scheme of things because KC wants everyone to believe that she is the one and only victum here. She even blames her daughter for her own death.

She can't lie to her probation officer but she can have her team lie to NE. They truly must feel foolish tonight to have bought that rubbish. jmo

It's outrageous how CA and probably Casey would now have everyone believe that Caylee disobeyed and got into the pool and drowned while her Mom was having some sort of seizure. Unless they want to eventually claim that Casey was in the pool with Caylee without her wearing her little vest. She should have the one who drowned if that were the case. They totally ignore the timeline of not really having time to be swimming due to texting and cell phone activity plus Jesse talking to her and hearing someone/something being told to get off the table. Which, by the way, would place Casey in the living area near all the windows to be able to see Caylee playing in her little grassy area of the yard. Almost as bad, is how the whole bunch seem to also be blaming some other person (who Casey was with) for helping in the body disposal, or according to George, the drugging. They're not even positive that Casey was in on the disposal it seems. Totally Outrageous.

 

[RR0004]

The sexual abuse thing is always an endearing trait some women use to bring out the protectiveness in their men - it also helps to isolate those individuals the women feel most will bust their storytelling wide open. And those two people who were "on" to her were LA and GA. Not an event manager, not a graduate from Valencia, not employed at the movie studio, didn't have a nanny, etc. etc....dangerous folks to someone who invents a new set of accomplishments as she moves from friend to friend....
Sexual abuse is a "cut them off at the pass" kind of tool to a liar...

Something that sociopaths love to do to keep others from knowing the truth.

 

[RR0004]

I think JB was hoping LA would cooperate and he backed out. If this is true, good for him. KC has proven herself to be unworthy of any human relationships. jmo

I actually think the opposite...I think he played along beautifully.

 

[marge_rita]

What kind of evidence? If there was sexual abuse then two people knew about it first hand. GA and FCA. Anything else would be heresay. The Judge didn't allow it in because it was bogus.

That's as real as it gets. :seeya:

 

[Concerned Papa]

View Poll Results: If you were on the jury today, how would you vote? Then
Guilty of 1st Degree Murder - Death Penalty 200 51.02%
Guilty of 1st Degree Murder - LWP 165 42.09%
Guilty of a lesser charge - 10-25 years 11 2.81%
Guilty of a lesser charge - Off with time served 2 0.51%
Not Guilty 4 1.02%
Other (please explain) 10 2.55%

View Poll Results: Which charges do you think the state proved BARD? NOW
Do you think the state proved BARD counts 1 thru 7? 42 63.64%
Do you think the state proved BARD counts 2 thru 7? 16 24.24%
Do you think the state proved BARD counts 3 thru 7? 0 0%
Do you think the state proved BARD counts 4 thru 7? 8 12.12%
Voters: 66. You may not vote on this poll

Although this new poll only has 66 votes, when compared to a similar poll taken just before the trial, the differences from then and now are interesting.

BBM

I think the consistencies are interesting as well.

-376 out of 392, or 95.918% "THEN"

-58 out of 66, or 87.878% at the time of your post

-70 out of 81, or 86.420% at the time of this post

EACH voted that the prosecution proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Casey Anthony should be in prison for what she did to her daughter. Of those, 51.02%, 63.64%, and 61.73% respectively, voted that she should possibly die for her crimes.

About the only "vote" that I'm aware of with a marked difference came from 12 people brought in from Pinellas County who voted unanimously that she should be free to chase after six figure deals for her "story".

THAT'S the difference I find interesting.

 

[Trident]

BBM

I think the consistencies are interesting as well.

-376 out of 392, or 95.918% "THEN"

-58 out of 66, or 87.878% at the time of your post

-70 out of 81, or 86.420% at the time of this post

EACH voted that the prosecution proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Casey Anthony should be in prison for what she did to her daughter. Of those, 51.02%, 63.64%, and 61.73% respectively, voted that she should possibly die for her crimes.

About the only "vote" that I'm aware of with a marked difference came from 12 people brought in from Pinellas County who voted unanimously that she should be free to chase after six figure deals for her "story".

THAT'S the difference I find interesting.

OKAY, I will now express MY opinion, which holds as much water as all the rest. I'm about 88% convinced KC was responsible for her daughter Caylee's demise. That said -

I am also sure, had I been on that jury, I would have voted the same way they did. The prosecution did NOT, to my satisfaction, PROVE her guilt to me, and I stated as much prior to the verdict - look it up. Over and over I stated they were NOT proving her guilt, people found it interesting, but couldn't understand since almost everyone had decided she was guilty and were more than happy to ride on the guilty band wagon. Yeah, I THOUGHT KC was guilty, but the way the "evidence" so-called, was presented left more than a reasonable doubt in my mind. To me, the defense DEMOLISHED each and every point the prosecution tried to make with their "IFFY" new technology. What I was left to ponder was a lot of "air", smelly or not, and a real glimmer that GA had a possibility of being almost as culpable as KC - remember, folks, I did/do think KC is guilty, always have since the 911 call, but for me the prosecution proved nothing, and I believe that was their burden.

I would have thought we were long past this since it cannot be reversed. Talk about beating a dead horse.

BTW, the faces made by JA did nothing but make me dislike him. A white knight does not sit and make faces in my opinion.

 

[SecretaryGal]

In my opinion..
I watch a lot of investigative type shows and there is almost never an eye witness or DNA evidence. You must consider circumstantial evidence that you feel in your mind says that person must have committed the crime..because obviously SOMEONE committed the crime. Being on a jury it is a RESPONSIBILITLY to consider the facts:
Who was the last person to see Caylee when subsequently...
Caylee was found in a swamp.
Caylee was fond with duct tape wrapped on her skull.
Casey covered up == abandoned smelly car to disassociate herself from it
Casey covered up == went on with her life to disassociate herself from it
She has a history of deceipt, stealing, etc.
She deleted her search history that day the gig was up...not just chloroform people..neck breaking, etc. I believe Lee also did the same to her laptop.
What evidence shows an accident? The picture of Caylee standing next to a door or a picture of her steps of the pool ladder? Unbelievable! Too bad there wasn't a picture of Casey holding the roll of duct tape. Ah, never mind, that wouldn't have convinced the jury either (eye roll)

 

[Hope4More]

I've changed my mind. Casey Anthony is morally innocent.

I'm convinced now that she had a revelation after she googled those missing children, how to break necks, how to make chloroform, and household weapons websites.

I'm sure now that she selflessly killed Caylee to bring attention to the national problem of missing children and mothers who kill their children!!

Getting the Bella Vita tattoo was her way of paying homage to the beautiful life of each and every one of those murdered children.

:takeabow: JMO.

 

[pcrum12]

If you find a link please post it.

It was testified to in court. I'll try to find a link.

 

[SecretaryGal]

It's outrageous how CA and probably Casey would now have everyone believe that Caylee disobeyed and got into the pool and drowned while her Mom was having some sort of seizure. Unless they want to eventually claim that Casey was in the pool with Caylee without her wearing her little vest. She should have the one who drowned if that were the case. They totally ignore the timeline of not really having time to be swimming due to texting and cell phone activity plus Jesse talking to her and hearing someone/something being told to get off the table. Which, by the way, would place Casey in the living area near all the windows to be able to see Caylee playing in her little grassy area of the yard. Almost as bad, is how the whole bunch seem to also be blaming some other person (who Casey was with) for helping in the body disposal, or according to George, the drugging. They're not even positive that Casey was in on the disposal it seems. Totally Outrageous.

I don't get the blaming of someone else for the disposal either. I didn't see any evidence to substantiate that. Further, the weather history says that those days (Mon-Wed) were rainy and drizzly - not nice swimming weather IMO.

Just a side note off topic -- to those who may feel like these discussions are beating a dead horse -- let me just say that....speaking for myself....I just can't let it go...I'm not ready to yet.....I know we can't change anything...but maybe by discussing it here, I may eventually wrap my brain around some kind of scenario that gives me some sort of closure to move on. It won't be satisfaction or acceptance, just resignment I guess.

I think this is the greatest message board since sliced bread :twocents:

 

[LambChop]

The Witness Testimonies Thread from the trial is very helpful if anyone has questions. Speculation is just that and nothing more. Answers to questions about what did or did not happen can be easily answered by reading all the testimonies from the trial. The time spent can be very worthwhile and obviously will answer some of the questions doubters might have about their theories. Otherwise it's just an exercise in an attempt to stamp out fires. Nothing wrong with speculation but it helps if everyone is up to speed on the details. Just a suggestion. And, as always jmo.

 

[SecretaryGal]

If you find a link please post it.

I believe this was stated in trial.
It seems like scenarios that you are producing do not correlate to evidence presented.
It also seems like when confronted by this, you ask for links and proof. It was all there in the court documents, testimonies, etc. We may not have it at our fingertips right now, but we devled into a lot of this information extensively over the past few years, so we know it is there.
Not trying to be a smarty pants, but are you questioning the evidence presented or our remembrance of it?
Maybe you should go over all that evidence and testimony again for your own self. Maybe the jurors should have done that too.
I guess seeking justice is just too much work for some folks.
-------My Opinion Only

ETA: Sorry Lamchop .. you posted before me and said much the same..lol

 

[beach]

I am locking this thread until I get off work and get a chance to read every post.


The topic of this thread is pretty clear:

Rehashing, debating and discussing the evidence

EVIDENCE being the key word here. You can discuss evidence that was admitted during trial AND evidence that was not admitted during trial BUT we have proof of though the doc dumps released including - photos, letters, reports from any agency, etc... (examples quickly off the top of my head include GA's "WHY???" letter, letters written between Casey and fellow inmates, DC emails, the recently released jail video, etc....)


Let me make it clear what is NOT CONSIDERED EVIDENCE - As any judge will instruct a jury, opinions and/or theories expressed by the attorneys are NOT evidence. Including, but not limited to, Opening Statements. An opening statement is nothing more than the prosecutor or defense attorney's theory they plan on selling to the jury.

I ran one across one elaborate theory without a single link, quote or anything to back it up - completely just PURE SPECULATION and expressing a THEORY. That is NOT the purpose of this thread.

Here is the link to the Theory thread. Even on that thread, do not state anything as a FACT if you don't have proof to back it up. You can express your theory, but make sure you make it clear what is your OPINION and what you are claiming is a FACT.


While this thread is locked, below are a couple of links for your reading pleasure. Methinks it is the perfect time for a refresher.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4472622#post4472622"]Dealing with your Fellow Posters[/ame].

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90578"]Your "Ignore list and you".[/ame]


If a particular poster is driving you mad, use it. It is a stress reliever. Why torture yourself if you don't have to? Yes, I know you can see their posts when quoted by others BUT maybe it will help you keep yourself out of trouble since you can't quote it and respond impulsively, kwim?

I will re-open this but it will be later tonight when I am off work and get a chance to review the thread and move the posts that are driving this thread into the ditches.