Retrial for Sentencing of Jodi Arias - 11/26 -12/02/14 In recess

[ElleElle]

Well, because you asked I am going to give you my opinion.

,Honestly, I really do think that the "vaginal" sex is the one that Travis would have avoided. I am not just believing Jodi's lies because she said she always thought "sex was sex" but Travis convinced her that anal and oral sex was not as big of a deal in breaking the covenants of their faith. I am basing my opinion about this issue on the LDS faith teachings (that I was taught years ago) that sex was to only be for procreation, and birth control was frowned upon. Having children and "populating the church" is foundational in the Mormon faith - hence the polygamy in the early years of the church. (It should be noted LDS have not practiced polygamy since Utah became a state in the 1870). Someone upthread (Sulamith?) mentioned that the church has changed their views on "oral" but that has been very recent change, and I doubt it is taught in "Relief Society" for the females. I believe that Travis was trying to use "semantics" to skirt The Law of Chastity and he knew he wouldn't be allowed these opportunities with upstanding good Mormon girls who keep sweet. Bottom line - if Jodi got pregnant - there would be proof of vaginal sex. The other stuff - not so much. (other than the pictures he thought she had deleted and he didn't know of the recorded phone conversation). Without too much personal disclosure - I had my share of nice, upstanding, good Mormon boys who were "Priesthood holders" and blessed our sacrament every Sunday, try and skirt the Law of Chastity with semantics (their versions of what was truly "against God" and what wasn't). They were testosterone infused normal teenage boys who got "excited" by a kiss, and were trying to give a girl a line that she would buy. I didn't buy into it - but it irritated me like no other that they were able to obtain temple recommends and higher priesthood holdings when I knew they lied to get there.

To be fair, people are saying they believe Jodi when she says they did have vaginal sex. - (hard to say when we should believe her - she really is such a liar.) We know of the other sex stuff because of the pictures and audio recordings.

It is just my opinion based upon what has been presented in this trial and my own personal experiences. I honestly do not remember her saying they had vaginal sex - but I still think it would be a very rare thing indeed.

I posted upthread Jodi testified they had sex in the bathtub because Travis said it was "underwater", therefore ok.

Not sure I believe this of course.

 

[Steve44]

It supports my contentions that: A) He doesn't know any better, and B) He believes that it helped his client.

He used the pics to pitch his Hail Mary 'snapped' defense.

Look at how much they were enjoying each other. She was there. They had sex. They took pictures. They slept. She could have killed him at any time, but he wasn't threatening her then, only after she dropped his camera... blah, blah, blah.

The fact that the pictures provide something for Nurmi to work with does not contain within it any support that they are fake.

 

[wenwe4]

She testified to this:

" 5:20 p.m. ET:*Arias said when she got to Alexander's house, they had vaginal sex two times in the bathtub. Alexander said it was underwater so it didn't count in regards to the Mormon law of chastity.

“I didn’t think it was serious. He said it was underwater, so it doesn’t count – when talking about having vaginal sex in the bathtub,” said Arias."

Link: http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/02/12/live-blog-jodi-aras-testifies-day-5

Thank you so very much!

Here's another example of Jodi's lies - I don't believe he had oral & vaginal sex "while she was asleep" - (I would think she woke up at some point) 5:12

The 5:20 example goes to support my theory that "semantics" and the Law of Chastity was in play here. (maybe it happened or not - or maybe Travis mistakenly believed that underwater vaginal sex would not result in pregnancy)

 

[janx]

I cannot figure why JSS allowed secret testimomy but I doubt it has anything to do with any of what you have listed as acceptable reasons. If it did, the CoA would not have overturned JSS ruling.

I really think the actual reason Nurmi provided JSS is that someone received threats. We know now that JA testified in secret but we do not know if she is the only person Nurmi told JSS would testify only if it could be in secret. There may be or may have been other witnesses to testify who told Nurmi they didn't want to take the stand and be crossed by JM. I think Nurmi could have twisted what he sees as JM intimidation into something more for the sake of arguing for secret testimony. I say that only because I wouldn't put that past him, nor past JSS to side with him, but mostly because if there were an acceptable reason the CoA would have upheld rather than overturned JSS ruling.

Personally, I think the killer is throwing her family under the bus--perhaps even with their knowledge, i.e., they might have been told it is the only hope of saving her rotten life. (Similar scenario to that of the Florida baby killer.)

I think she is too. The claims now include an incident when her father strangled her until unconscious, yes? I'm just having a hard time understanding where the self-defense portion of her story of the murder went. Did she abandon it?

 

[krkrjx]

BBM

I respectfully disagree. Nurmi is probably just talking :censored: It's also hinky that the computer dude damaged the hard drive so much that no more testing can be done on it now.

160,000 pieces of is ridiculously impossible, and it's not for sure. They looked for words associated with like Teen and Tween, but couldn't rule out words with those words as part of them. Like BEtween or NINEteen. I haven't heard from anyone that they found actual images. I may be wrong about that, but that's what it sounds like.

The guy who did the searching is not a certified computer forensics expert. He's the dude who found the image of a dog's face person holding a camera in the reflection of Travis' eye. JMO

Having a bit of holiday cheer are you, Steely? LOL, you have respectfully disagreed with my statement about wanting more information and wanting to know what the evidence is JM will bring to court to prove BN damaged the hard drive.

Happy that you are enjoying your holiday weekend if that is the case. Carry on... eace:

 

[Steve44]

http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/nicholson.asp

Wow. His head must have been spinning like a duck in a helmet. I don't know why I thought of that...

 

[Truth Detector]

The fact that the pictures provide something for Nurmi to work with does not contain within it any support that they are fake.

The pictures aren't fake, at least I don't believe they are.

Nor was that my point.

The point is that the dates/times/authorship of digital data in this case were assumed and/or stipulated to with little to no disputation.

I think both sides, the judge, and the jury (from what little we know) naively assumed that most of the data were as they seemed when I suspect they were not.

E.g., I believe that the killer manipulated her victim by composing, sending, and deleting emails from multiple accounts, including -- likely as not -- his own.

And we know she forged (or had forged) the infamous pedophile letters.

 

[Steely Dan]

Having a bit of holiday cheer are you, Steely? LOL, you have respectfully disagreed with my statement about wanting more information and wanting to know what the evidence is JM will bring to court to prove BN damaged the hard drive.

Happy that you are enjoying your holiday weekend if that is the case. Carry on... eace:

Why can't we disagree in sober times? :waitasec:

 

[Val1]

It was not a cheap camera. I believe the pics are burned into the memory, just as the shower pics.

" Alexander’s new camera was a Sony Cyber-shot DSC-H9. The camera is currently being sold on*Amazon*for $1,499.99, but likely cost more in 2008 when Alexander bought it."

Hmm yet the sites I accessed for the reviews say it was selling at release for just under $500 and with the promo, less than $400.

Link: http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/03/01/jodi-arias-camera

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyh9
Some interesting "new" features on it according to this review. ie. Advanced Sports Shooting, NightShot infrared system, Face Detection, 15x Zoom, In-camera retouching and a new remote control, not to mention the 100 continuous shot capability and noise reduction.
Without actually trying it though, I still don't seen any info as to date control, though I suppose the in-camera retouching may allow for that, if you had time?


http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/H9/H9A.HTM
"this Remote Commander, as it's called, is very useful for placing your camera on top of the television for slideshows and video playback. You can activate the Sony H9 in either still or movie mode from a good distance. In the lab they couldn't go further than about fifty feet, and it still worked when the camera was facing the remote."
"But it took a while to get accustomed to some of the controls, and I was disappointed at the lack of control over compression, the omission of RAW image storage(http://photo.net/learn/raw/), and the menu system."

I also noted that the memory stick was not included "in the box", so JA's comment to the Det. makes sense in hindsight, as in she could have used her own and in the rush to clean up and get out she forgot to retrieve it before dumping the camera.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...26-12-02-14-In-recess&p=11253964#post11253964

 

[Steve44]

The pictures aren't fake, at least I don't believe they are.

Nor was that my point.

The point is that the dates/times/authorship of digital data in this case were assumed and/or stipulated to with little to no disputation.

I think both sides, the judge, and the jury (from what little we know) naively assumed that most of the data were as they seemed when I suspect they were not.

E.g., I believe that the killer manipulated her victim by composing, sending, and deleting emails from multiple accounts, including -- likely as not -- his own.

And we know she forged (or had forged) the infamous pedophile letters.

By fake I meant not reflections of the actual dates and times indicated, not that they were not actual photographs. Again, if they were taken at other times, it would mean that Arias intentionally wanted to implicate that she was there on that date, and that's the diametrically opposite of what she wanted to claim.

 

[Steve44]

I think both sides, the judge, and the jury (from what little we know) naively assumed that most of the data were as they seemed when I suspect they were not.

Nothing was naively assumed. Flores stated during the interrogation that they had forensically investigated the photos and confirmed that the date/time stamps were accurate.

 

[krkrjx]

Has the self-defense claim gone by the wayside?

Yes. There is no longer physcial abuse being claimed. It has turned into psychological abuse for this phase of trial. Maybe the killer is unable to replicate her linebacker pose for a second jury and didn't want to risk doing it wrong.

 

[Boytwnmom]

to deal with somone like JA. Not that anyone would be, but TA less than most. Although he had suffered abuse as a child, as an adult he seems to have been surrounded by wonderful, caring, morally "straight" people. I think of his friends who have testified and been interviewed. All of the women seem like terrific, honest, forthcoming people who address issues head on and not through manipulation, subterfuge etc. IMO, JA intentionally infiltrated this LDS community. TA was used to believing people were who they said they were and that his circle had shared values. I'm not sure he even knew people like JA existed. I mean, compare JA to the other women in his life who have come forward.

I don't think we can even imagine what she had put him through by the end. And he knew he had done things with her he wouldn't normally have done. And I'm sure she tortured him with it. And she has continued to do it all these years after she physically killed him. Torturing his family and friends. Broadcasting to the world horrible lies about pedophila and abuse and deviant behavior.

My husband & I have rather eclectic taste in movies and often use movie quotes (which the other person must identify by movie and character) with each other. JA always reminds me of this quote from the Terminator:

Listen, and understand. That terminator is out there. It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.

Only JA is worse as she doesn't even stop when her victim is dead.

I also believe there was an addictive component to this sick relationship for Travis (not sure about Jodi because she was just being her twisted self). I believe Travis' wounds showed up in the area of intimacy (not unusual) and he was caught in an addictive web, driven by a manipulative sociopath, of "I know this isn't good for me but I can't stop". What was it Robert Downey Jr said--"it's like I have the barrel of a gun in my mouth and I like the taste of the metal" (paraphrasing). I also believe he very likely would have dealt with and conquered this challenge in his life given the opportunity. He was seriously dedicated to personal growth and we ALL have blind spots/growth curves/rabbit holes esp those of us who've experienced early childhood trauma.

 

[Renee110]

For someone that claims she is smart, what an idiot to leave the camera. But I'm glad she did. I said this before, I'm surprised she didn't get pregnant.

The camera wasn't the only mistake she made. She left a trail of breadcrumbs leading straight to her door. Perfect Crime…NOT!!

 

[Steve44]

The camera wasn't the only mistake she made. She left a trail of breadcrumbs leading straight to her door. Perfect Crime…NOT!!

As a psychopath, she's quite successful.

As a genius, not so much.

 

[ICit]

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyh9
Some interesting "new" features on it according to this review. ie. Advanced Sports Shooting, NightShot infrared system, Face Detection, 15x Zoom, In-camera retouching and a new remote control, not to mention the 100 continuous shot capability and noise reduction.
Without actually trying it though, I still don't seen any info as to date control, though I suppose the in-camera retouching may allow for that, if you had time?


http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/H9/H9A.HTM
"this Remote Commander, as it's called, is very useful for placing your camera on top of the television for slideshows and video playback. You can activate the Sony H9 in either still or movie mode from a good distance. In the lab they couldn't go further than about fifty feet, and it still worked when the camera was facing the remote."
"But it took a while to get accustomed to some of the controls, and I was disappointed at the lack of control over compression, the omission of RAW image storage(http://photo.net/learn/raw/), and the menu system."

Do you have any thoughts as to why some of the photos have the date stamp and some do not? The quality of some seemed so off to me. Also, in her interviews with Flores, she said that the dates could be changed and then backtracked by saying at least that is what she has heard (lots of liars use this method). She also drew for Flores the size of the memory cards and said that she had one the same size as Travis in a broken camera in her storage unit and she had some of the same pictures on her broken camera car.

I have found that liars sometimes like to give enough information for you to get to the truth. If you do not get there, then they have a special 'dupers delight'. She seemed like she was really enjoying that part of the interview.

 

[franquerolane]

Jack Nicholson's sister is his mother?

And Bobby Darrin.

 

[ICit]

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonyh9
Some interesting "new" features on it according to this review. ie. Advanced Sports Shooting, NightShot infrared system, Face Detection, 15x Zoom, In-camera retouching and a new remote control, not to mention the 100 continuous shot capability and noise reduction.
Without actually trying it though, I still don't seen any info as to date control, though I suppose the in-camera retouching may allow for that, if you had time?


http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/H9/H9A.HTM
"this Remote Commander, as it's called, is very useful for placing your camera on top of the television for slideshows and video playback. You can activate the Sony H9 in either still or movie mode from a good distance. In the lab they couldn't go further than about fifty feet, and it still worked when the camera was facing the remote."
"But it took a while to get accustomed to some of the controls, and I was disappointed at the lack of control over compression, the omission of RAW image storage(http://photo.net/learn/raw/), and the menu system."

I also noted that the memory stick was not included "in the box", so JA's comment to the Det. makes sense in hindsight, as in she could have used her own and in the rush to clean up and get out she forgot to retrieve it before dumping the camera.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...26-12-02-14-In-recess&p=11253964#post11253964

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/H9/H9A.HTM
"this Remote Commander, as it's called, is very useful for placing your camera on top of the television for slideshows and video playback. You can activate the Sony H9 in either still or movie mode from a good distance. In the lab they couldn't go further than about fifty feet, and it still worked when the camera was facing the remote."
"But it took a while to get accustomed to some of the controls, and I was disappointed at the lack of control over compression, the omission of RAW image storage(http://photo.net/learn/raw/), and the menu system."

Do you have any thoughts as to why some of the photos have the date stamp and some do not? The quality of some seemed so off to me. Also, in her interviews with Flores, she said that the dates could be changed and then backtracked by saying at least that is what she has heard (lots of liars use this method). She also drew for Flores the size of the memory cards and said that she had one the same size as Travis in a broken camera in her storage unit and she had some of the same pictures on her broken camera car.

I have found that liars sometimes like to give enough information for you to get to the truth. If you do not get there, then they have a special 'dupers delight'. She seemed like she was really enjoying that part of the interview.

 

[Deleted member 122533]

O

I thought it was possible that throwingp the camera in the wash was an accident. She gathered up a pile of sheets, towels, clothes, whatever to throw in the wash and could have accidentally grabbed it.

But maybe not - she apparently took the time to delete each photo individually, so that would seem to mean she didn't plan on taking the camera with her. I don't know why not - at least she could have taken the memory card if nothing else. It would have been way harder to convict her if she had destroyed it too.

Good point about deleting the photos, BSK. My guess is that she deliberately placed the camera in the washing machine. Psychopathy and the appeal of symbols interest me. I can't remember if I suggested this before (or if it has been done) but Arias and the symbols surrounding the murder would be an interesting discussion. It struck me that washing the camera was such a symbol. Washing away the seedier aspects of a doomed relationship. It was more than just destroying evidence, it was cleansing, cathartic to Arias. Wash one man out if her life. On with the next.

There are other symbols - such as the sending of 18 irises to Travis' Grandmother - a child's name they discussed (perhaps fantasy but she emphasised the symbol). I agree with ElleElle - she wasn't that smart with technology but she had mastered some techniques - possibly with help from an ex? Arias is never as bright as she estimates herself to be.

 

[gcharlie]

I'm sorry, I just do not remember her saying they did have vaginal sex, but if they did - I am sure JA would think that was a "red letter day". Anybody able to provide a link to when she said this? TIA!!!

ETA: maybe highlighting this event in her journal?

There was conflicting testimony in court as to when first vaginal intercourse took place. May 2007 and August 2007 were the dates in question.

There was an incident mentioned where Arias supposedly awoke to find Travis penetrating her and two different accounts of this same instance varied. One made it sound like rape, and the other version is blurred in my memory. I can't remember if they mutually consented and consummated the act or if Travis stopped.