Retrieving wreckage from AirAsia Flight To Singapore- no survivors recovered #2

[emirates1957]

The Indonesian government cracked down Monday in response to the AirAsia crash, ordering aviation officials to be suspended and saying airlines will be forced to comply with stricter predeparture regulations that require pilots to undergo direct weather briefings with dispatchers.

Staff at the ministry said many airlines already practice what will become mandatory rules, but that AirAsia wasn’t among them. The aviation head at the airport in Surabaya, Indonesia’s second-largest city, used incorrect information in granting AirAsia a takeoff slot for the flight, Mr. Murjatmodjo said.


Sounds silly to me - online is the most updated - looking for something to blame?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/airasia...ation-to-involve-indonesian-police-1420454599

Would be neat if someone here can translate this! Here is the actual weather report ;

Google Weather Report From Surabaya for Morning of Flight's Disappearance

[h=1]Many Bodies of AirAsia Passengers Won’t Be Autopsied, Officials Say
[/h] [h=2]http://www.wsj.com/articles/many-bodies-of-airasia-passengers-wont-be-autopsied-officials-say-1420307128[/h]
AirAsia’s management went into a crisis crouch Saturday after Indonesia’s Transport Ministry said the low-cost carrier had been flying without permission on the Surabaya-to-Singapore flight that crashed with 162 people on board.
The airline was silent for hours after news of the unauthorized flight struck, a major change of tack after chief executive Tony Fernandes had put himself quickly front and center, on television and Twitter, for days expressing condolences and taking responsibility for the accident. “Someone was probably blindsided by this,’’ said Tom Evrard, crisis communications expert at FTI Strategic Communications in Singapore “They have to gather all the facts.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/indonesiarealtime/2015/01/03/what-happened-to-the-openness-at-airasia/

No crew around at the moment. I'll see if the Engineers might know...otherwise will get back to you this arvo.

 

[CARIIS]

A fighter Dutch F-16 pilot has gone ahead and put the record-breaking Oscars selfie to shame, posting multiple self-portraits of himself mid-air. Lets just go play around?? Do you guys think this is photo shop?

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/slideshows/fighter-jet-pilot-selfies/mid-flight-selfie/

Breaking now from our expert Qwest: finding the plane is very hard work. Just wanted you to know from an expert.

 

[winterrayne]

Just saw this report that contradicts what I had read before ... (about 5-8 days).

Officials say the search for victims will get more difficult as the days pass. Medical experts say that bodies sink within 10 to 14 days after entering the water.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/airasia...ing-out-to-recover-floating-bodies-1420537099

I read that to, actually i think i read that first which made me go do an internet search on the topic. info was all over the place, so it's hard to tell. It really depends on water, temp, bacteria, and a whole bunch of stuff. I read a few articles that bodies float, then sink, then actually may refloat again. I love scientific stuff especially about bodies for some reason, and thought the refloating thing very interesting. I typed in "how long can bodies float in water" i was hoping for a magic number but of course there wasn't any :gaah:

 

[emirates1957]

A fighter Dutch F-16 pilot has gone ahead and put the record-breaking Oscars selfie to shame, posting multiple self-portraits of himself mid-air. Lets just go play around?? Do you guys think this is photo shop?

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/slideshows/fighter-jet-pilot-selfies/mid-flight-selfie/

Breaking now from our expert Qwest: finding the plane is very hard work. Just wanted you to know from an expert.

According to our Engineers it hasn't been photo shopped. Engineers couldn't help with the weather ...will wait for some Pilot's to arrive.

 

[winterrayne]

I wanted to clarify my previous post on previous page about the rescuers RUNNING with the stretcher with the bodies, which I find dangerous and goes against safety protocols. They could easily trip and fall as they are running about.

I blame whoever has directed the people to do the running and not the people who are actually carrying the bodies. I suspect it is part of some bizarre "image" thing that the authorities want to make them hustle with the bodies to the awaiting helicoptor OR to just avoid media OR something.

The point being is it is so needless and is dangerous to be scurrying about when carrying a body. They are already sadly dead so its not like you are rushing to save their life or anything.
I am forced to think that the authorities are very concerned about their image in the media and are directing their rescuers to do this. Which is very sad. Just do your job and do it well and then you dont have to worry about changing your image in the media.

I saw running to and was like ekk , the body was shaking around. i really thought it was going to fall off that gurney type thing. Then they slowed down after that though and i realized they were running from under the chopper blades. The video i saw was them taking a body off a helicopter.

 

[CARIIS]

Army is searching for a suspect after an "active shooter" was reported as a West Texas military hospital. WOnder if false alarm?

http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/features...ive-shooter-at-WBAMC-67279.shtml#.VKxybGOGeoN

 

[emirates1957]

No crew around at the moment. I'll see if the Engineers might know...otherwise will get back to you this arvo.

I have handed this over to one of our F/O....he had a very quick look as he is about to go flying and will have a look. Looking at the weather report from Surabaya as per your post....he said that the wind is around 30-40 kt nothing remarkable. Their is a hurricane to the left of Indonesia called "Kate". As we all know there were storms everywhere ...he also confirmed storms up to 50,000 ft. The first part of the weather report will give us an indication of icing. He will have a closer look later today. Watch this space.

 

[redheadedgal]

A fighter Dutch F-16 pilot has gone ahead and put the record-breaking Oscars selfie to shame, posting multiple self-portraits of himself mid-air. Lets just go play around?? Do you guys think this is photo shop?

no, it's real

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/a...ghter-jets-escort-Netherlands-Dreamliner.html

 

[emirates1957]

The Indonesian government cracked down Monday in response to the AirAsia crash, ordering aviation officials to be suspended and saying airlines will be forced to comply with stricter predeparture regulations that require pilots to undergo direct weather briefings with dispatchers.

Staff at the ministry said many airlines already practice what will become mandatory rules, but that AirAsia wasn’t among them. The aviation head at the airport in Surabaya, Indonesia’s second-largest city, used incorrect information in granting AirAsia a takeoff slot for the flight, Mr. Murjatmodjo said.


Sounds silly to me - online is the most updated - looking for something to blame?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/airasia...ation-to-involve-indonesian-police-1420454599

Would be neat if someone here can translate this! Here is the actual weather report ;

Google Weather Report From Surabaya for Morning of Flight's Disappearance

[h=1]Many Bodies of AirAsia Passengers Won’t Be Autopsied, Officials Say
[/h] [h=2]http://www.wsj.com/articles/many-bodies-of-airasia-passengers-wont-be-autopsied-officials-say-1420307128[/h]
AirAsia’s management went into a crisis crouch Saturday after Indonesia’s Transport Ministry said the low-cost carrier had been flying without permission on the Surabaya-to-Singapore flight that crashed with 162 people on board.
The airline was silent for hours after news of the unauthorized flight struck, a major change of tack after chief executive Tony Fernandes had put himself quickly front and center, on television and Twitter, for days expressing condolences and taking responsibility for the accident. “Someone was probably blindsided by this,’’ said Tom Evrard, crisis communications expert at FTI Strategic Communications in Singapore “They have to gather all the facts.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/indonesiarealtime/2015/01/03/what-happened-to-the-openness-at-airasia/

Cariis ....the boys said the first page of the Weather Report from Surabaya is the Aerodrome Forecast which is not really going to help. They said (as we all know) rain, thunderstorms etc. Sorry if this has been asked before do we know the A/C's exact co-ordinates when it went into the sea?

 

[SouthAussie]

I was reading an article with the ATC partial transcript (similar to the one CARIIS posted earlier). It says that on the Sunday AirAsia had made no changes to its flight plan from the previous day, and that is how it slipped through the cracks and was cleared to fly. Did AirAsia presume that conditions would be the same as the previous day, or did the conditions look the same as the previous day when they presumably looked at the weather report prior to Sunday's flight?


“AirAsia did not make any amendment in its flight plan from Saturday to Sunday to the Air Communication director-general which led to its unauthorised flight on Sunday,” said Praminto at the Mapolda Complex in East Java, Monday.

http://malaysiandigest.com/world/53...asia-flight-qz8501-and-juanda-atc-leaked.html

 

[SouthAussie]

Some divers went in today to look for and try to photograph the two items that the US Navy boat saw yesterday.


At least two divers plunged into the choppy waters early today during a break in the bad weather to search for two large objects suspected of being chunks of the fuselage of the Indonesia AirAsia plane that crashed more than one week ago, an Indonesian official said.

A US Navy ship, the USS Fort Worth, detected the latest two objects on Tuesday at a depth of 28 meters near the Karimata Strait off Indonesia.

“We will start to identify the wreckage, which appears to be part of the jet’s body, as quickly as possible,” Indonesian search and rescue operation coordinator Tatang Zainudin said, adding that teams equipped with a remote-operated vehicle will also try to capture images of the objects.

http://www.nst.com.my/node/68683

 

[SouthAussie]

Three Chinese experts arrived in Jakarta on Tuesday to join the search operation for the black box of the AirAsia QZ8501 flight, after the ill-fated plane crashed en route from Indonesia's Surabaya to Singapore late last December.

"We can't elaborate on when the black box can be found or how long we will stay in Indonesia, before we get more information at Pangkalan Bun," said Mao, adding that they have brought along with them portable underwater detection equipment and communication device.

The reason for not catching the signal could be complicated, said Mao, citing the internal failure of the black box and the signal blocked as possible factors.

He noted that, the side-scan sonar could also locate the black box, even after 30 days when the battery of black box died.

A Chinese rescue ship "Nanhaijiu 101" is expected to arrive directly in Pankalan Bun on Friday ...

http://www.ecns.cn/2015/01-07/149619.shtml

 

[Bravo]

To add as well this is one of the best threads I have been on in some time. You are a great group and the wealth of knowledge here is amazing. So thanks all. Learning much as I read along :yourock:

 

[SouthAussie]

Just a couple more things I found today ...

A pilot who is defending the QZ8501 pilot, from officials he believes are trying to point the finger at pilot error.

"The captain of the Indonesia AirAsia Flight QZ8501 that crashed into the sea during a thunderstorm likely knew the lessons from the 2009 Air France plane crash, a pilot has said amid increasing focus on human error in the comparisons of both disasters," an Airbus A330 captain, Bill Palmer wrote on CNN's US news network.

The Airbus pilot explained, the aircraft's probes become frozen under icy weather and the QZ 8510 system could have been tricked to manage a situation that mimics the aircraft is nearing a stalled position. But in actuality it isn't. As the probes freeze, the Airbus has stall protections kick the aircraft into a nose dive to recover.

http://www.kdramastars.com/articles...rash-not-pilots-error-says-airbus-captain.htm

 

[SouthAussie]

And a testing facility in Winnipeg that is testing aircraft engines and ice ....

“What we’re testing for is how ice buildup can happen … and how that ice is shed,” said Mr. Ostermann, program director for a Winnipeg-based facility that specializes in freezing jet engines while they are in full throttle.

The idea that chunks of ice as large as 15 centimetres can grow on and then flake off a fan blade spinning inside a jet engine at 5,000 revolutions a minute is hard to imagine.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...sia-jetliner-report-suggests/article22288450/


(Okay, that's all for now ... )

 

[emirates1957]

I was reading an article with the ATC partial transcript (similar to the one CARIIS posted earlier). It says that on the Sunday AirAsia had made no changes to its flight plan from the previous day, and that is how it slipped through the cracks and was cleared to fly. Did AirAsia presume that conditions would be the same as the previous day, or did the conditions look the same as the previous day when they presumably looked at the weather report prior to Sunday's flight?


“AirAsia did not make any amendment in its flight plan from Saturday to Sunday to the Air Communication director-general which led to its unauthorised flight on Sunday,” said Praminto at the Mapolda Complex in East Java, Monday.

http://malaysiandigest.com/world/53...asia-flight-qz8501-and-juanda-atc-leaked.html

Thanks SA....Okey Dokey....in the above mentioned article it says that "Air Asia did not obtain official permission to fly on 28 December....I think the key word here is "official". Bearing in mind the crew would have been rostered for this duty months prior, the flight would have been in their reservation system for quite some time for 150 to make bookings. Highly improbable that the flight plan and weather would be for the previous day. That would mean a dispatcher having to actually go back a day to retrieve that information. The flight plan would be dated...it would mean flight planning, dispatcher and the crew have missed that vital piece of information. Let's say it is the flight plan for 27 DEC....basically it would take them along the same track perhaps depending on weight and pax load. As for the weather it would have been crap SAT and perhaps crappier SUN. There would be no weather surprises for an aviator doing these sorts of routes on a regular basis. If the flight plan was for the SAT that would have them departing from a different bay, different A/C registration. ATC have a copy of the flight plan as well. It would seem highly unusual that the A/C rego, departure bay and runway would be the same. So if the weather was hugely different to the flight plan - that should have been a red flag in itself. I would also like to know why the A/C departed 2 hours early. I'm not buying what their selling. JMO.

 

[newone]

Thanks SA....Okey Dokey....in the above mentioned article it says that "Air Asia did not obtain official permission to fly on 28 December....I think the key word here is "official". Bearing in mind the crew would have been rostered for this duty months prior, the flight would have been in their reservation system for quite some time for 150 to make bookings. Highly improbable that the flight plan and weather would be for the previous day. That would mean a dispatcher having to actually go back a day to retrieve that information. The flight plan would be dated...it would mean flight planning, dispatcher and the crew have missed that vital piece of information. Let's say it is the flight plan for 27 DEC....basically it would take them along the same track perhaps depending on weight and pax load. As for the weather it would have been crap SAT and perhaps crappier SUN. There would be no weather surprises for an aviator doing these sorts of routes on a regular basis. If the flight plan was for the SAT that would have them departing from a different bay, different A/C registration. ATC have a copy of the flight plan as well. It would seem highly unusual that the A/C rego, departure bay and runway would be the same. So if the weather was hugely different to the flight plan - that should have been a red flag in itself. I would also like to know why the A/C departed 2 hours early. I'm not buying what their selling. JMO.

bbm: ...... unusual isn't it? have been delayed many times but making it earlier is odd unless there were more flights scheduled for that aircraft that day?? MOO & guess on my part?

 

[SouthAussie]

I have had flight times moved to earlier times, with plenty of email notice. It has happened to us a couple of times over the years when traveling to Queensland from South Australia for a holiday. Don’t know why they did it though. They don’t explain that in the email notification.

When they have done that to our flights, they have bombarded us with emails and texts, and they don't stop until you call in and confirm that you have received the notice of change.

 

[Snoods]

[video=twitter;552691300617560064]https://twitter.com/STcom/status/552691300617560064[/video]

 

[Snoods]

I am feeling "mushy", and feel the need to thank you all. I stubmled across you guys with Luka, and for a long time only thought it was true crime which was awesome for me. Then we did Boston Marathon, Canada, all sorts of stories with you . And it is this like wierd thing, breaking news, you go to news and then after 10 minutes you realize I need to go to WS to find out what is happening.

That is good and bad! It is pathetic, that one cant get anews story, that is not filled with inaccuracies, from the media - it is , I am old, for my sisters kids , this is a very bad bad situation. It is so not ok that one cant turn on the news and Walter CRonkite is not us the truth.

However, it all is what it is, and we all collectivly do a pretty damn amazing job of getting the facts. Like I said feeling mushy, tearing, BUT, god thank god. THe bull that is out there , on any story, that is just so off, so wrong, stupid stuff, it was 3 it was 9 it was 12 fine when breaking - but when they report 3 and then we all know it IS 9 and for the rest of the story it remains wrong at 3 that is a huge issue!

I gotten timed out a couple of times when i started, but thro time I learned, that it really is awesome, to be able to do what we do without like attack- it is sharing stuff feellings , info facts, stuff.

and in the interium i had gone to a couple of other places , that were not moderated like this, its aweful you end up agitated, i can get a bunch of sh%t at a grocery store , i dont want to come on line, to learn and share, and up being attacked.


We are respectful, we share , we debate, we share confusion together, while all along, are just stunned at the fact that 25 years ago we all did this, over dinner, with friends, with no cell phones or texts

I thank you all , I learn much, my mother has has over more than one story we have done toegehter, is where do you get all this from ! Webslutehts mom websltueths mom!!

Its a really neat "entity" !

There done with my mushy post!

Feel free to mush away! :grouphug: I appreciate and love it here as well.