Retrieving wreckage from AirAsia Flight To Singapore- no survivors recovered #2

[CARIIS]

two more cops just shot in NY

 

[Hatfield]

THANKS EVERYONE for keeping up with all the news on the recovery operations. Its so nice to be able to come here and catch up on all the latest without having to hunt all over the internet.

Work has gotten busy for me lately so have not been able to participate here much but still read all the updates everyone has so kindly added. So THANK YOU ALL

 

[Hatfield]

In a nutshell no. ATC would be aware of the massive plunge. The communication would come from ATC asking "if situation normal". These guys would be falling at 3000ft a minute. You hate to even think about it.

Hello Emirates,
I've been meaning to ask you a question based on your experience. When there are storms that cause either a severe updraft or downdraft that moves the plane, what has been like the longest drop or gain you have personally seen or heard about from one of your cohorts?

You dont have to be exact of course. I'm just trying to better prepare myself mentally if it ever happens to me during a flight and so just trying to be ready and not be surprised if I ever have to experience an unusually large drop or gain.

I've only been in what I would consider a typical drop where it probably only lasted maybe 2-3 seconds and where my stomach felt like on a roller coaster where you feel that weightlessness feeling. So Im just trying to understand how bad a really bad one could get.

Others can jump in too if you had a really unusually large drop or gain.

 

[Bravo]

Speech, speech! :takeabow::rolling:

Ummmm Thank You for this great Honor bestowed upon me LOL :loveyou: :tyou: Sorry I wasn't here earlier and Thanks also for all the updates too. I was busy. Busy watching "Our Boys" Canada beat the Russians YEAH!!!!!:happydance::Banane59:

 

[emirates1957]

Hello Emirates,
I've been meaning to ask you a question based on your experience. When there are storms that cause either a severe updraft or downdraft that moves the plane, what has been like the longest drop or gain you have personally seen or heard about from one of your cohorts?

You dont have to be exact of course. I'm just trying to better prepare myself mentally if it ever happens to me during a flight and so just trying to be ready and not be surprised if I ever have to experience an unusually large drop or gain.

I've only been in what I would consider a typical drop where it probably only lasted maybe 2-3 seconds and where my stomach felt like on a roller coaster where you feel that weightlessness feeling. So Im just trying to understand how bad a really bad one could get.

Others can jump in too if you had a really unusually large drop or gain.

I'm hearing you - yes it can be terrifying. You can drop 1000 ft or more, and then your ascending another 1000 ft. Will check with the Pilot's tomorrow as to what they have encountered. If you google aircraft wing tolerances or similar it will give you a confident idea how far the wing can lift…..especially the 787. Turbulence loves warm days especially when land meets water….also going over a mountain range. There is also wake turbulence. When A/C depart they have to have a separation period depending on the size/weight of the carrier. For example you don't want to depart 1 minute after an A380….wake turbulence is very, very dangerous. This is all controlled by ATC. When you take your next flight….speak to one of the F/A's they would have been briefed on weather conditions. If they say something like we are expecting turbulence en-route ……at least your ready for it. If that doesn't work - have 3 stiff drinks.

 

[Hatfield]

Indonesian officials like to try to capitalize on disasters, hoping to get more popular out of the misery of people they are supposed to serve. The favorite tactic is to demonstrate their anger in front of the media to those who are supposedly the culprits. They want to shift blame to other parties while showing to the public that they’re acting tough and doing their jobs properly.

This has been blatantly displayed in the aftermath of the crash of Indonesia AirAsia Flight QZ8501 on Dec. 28 ....

The fact is that the management of the Indonesian aviation system has for years been a dangerous life-threatening mess and urgently needs a total overhaul — from corrupt officials to obsolete technology and equipment.

Like a time bomb, a deadly accident is bound to happen within such a messy system.

http://thejakartaglobe.beritasatu.com/opinion/editorial-officials-shouldnt-weather-storm/

After watching bits + pieces of some of their local news highlights, I have to say I agree it seems like that is what they are doing which is very sad. Instead of making knee-jerk reactions like firing people already and suspending all flights, they need to first concentrate on recovery efforts of the rest of the bodies and the wreckage. Then and only then should they do a very thorough investigation which should take a very long time if done properly. And then finally after all that, they may want to make some changes.

From what I have seen so far, I have to agree we are seeing some of that. One of the first signs for me was when I saw a news clip of a couple of their people carrying a body into what looked like a hospital. They were RUNNING at full speed. Like WTH? They could have easily tripped and hurt themselves or others. It was ridiculous to be running like that. And then I saw another news clip where they were doing the same thing and running with another body. Just crazy.

Some of it may have been to try to avoid media and too much picture taking but you should never have your rescue staff who are carrying a body on a stretcher ordered to run at full speed.
My goodness.

Lets concentrate on finding the bodies at sea and the wreckage recovery. And along those lines, it seems obvious they should maybe table the idea of being able to use "divers" if the murky water is never going to be good enough. How about entertaining other ideas like more use of Sonar and then perhaps bring up the wreckage to the surface by just hooking a cable onto it and trying to hoist it to surface. They could even try a grappling hook device to snare the wreckage and those ships always have those cable retreive systems.

The depth is not that deep so it seems some other ideas may need to be used if the murky water continues to be an issue.

I am pretty sure suggestions like these have been offerred to their "officials". I hope they are being open minded about things.

 

[Hatfield]

I'm hearing you - yes it can be terrifying. You can drop 1000 ft or more, and then your ascending another 1000 ft. Will check with the Pilot's tomorrow as to what they have encountered. If you google aircraft wing tolerances or similar it will give you a confident idea how far the wing can lift…..especially the 787. Turbulence loves warm days especially when land meets water….also going over a mountain range. There is also wake turbulence. When A/C depart they have to have a separation period depending on the size/weight of the carrier. For example you don't want to depart 1 minute after an A380….wake turbulence is very, very dangerous. This is all controlled by ATC. When you take your next flight….speak to one of the F/A's they would have been briefed on weather conditions. If they say something like we are expecting turbulence en-route ……at least your ready for it. If that doesn't work - have 3 stiff drinks.

Thanks, and yes I usually take advantage of ordering a cocktail or 2 as soon as the flight attendants start serving as it does seem to help.

 

[SouthAussie]

The families of the passengers have been offered a chance to fly to the location believed to be the crash site and lay flower wreaths, the commander of the Armed Forces, Gen Moeldoko, said in Surabaya.

They would fly to Pangkalan Bun, the nearest town, then be taken by a naval ship to the location in the Java Sea. He said he believed this might help "reduce their sadness and the feeling of loss".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30692223



I have seen a few news items talking about the families going to lay flower wreaths at the crash site. I am just wondering if they are considering doing this very soon .. and hoping not. Would it not be a bit confusing to the searchers, having a multitude of wreaths floating while they are trying to see debris? Maybe they are speaking about doing it in a month or so.

Maybe they are just telling the families this now because the families' patience has got to be running very thin and their anxiety levels may be quite high.

 

[emirates1957]

After watching bits + pieces of some of their local news highlights, I have to say I agree it seems like that is what they are doing which is very sad. Instead of making knee-jerk reactions like firing people already and suspending all flights, they need to first concentrate on recovery efforts of the rest of the bodies and the wreckage. Then and only then should they do a very thorough investigation which should take a very long time if done properly. And then finally after all that, they may want to make some changes.

From what I have seen so far, I have to agree we are seeing some of that. One of the first signs for me was when I saw a news clip of a couple of their people carrying a body into what looked like a hospital. They were RUNNING at full speed. Like WTH? They could have easily tripped and hurt themselves or others. It was ridiculous to be running like that. And then I saw another news clip where they were doing the same thing and running with another body. Just crazy.

Some of it may have been to try to avoid media and too much picture taking but you should never have your rescue staff who are carrying a body on a stretcher ordered to run at full speed.
My goodness.

Lets concentrate on finding the bodies at sea and the wreckage recovery. And along those lines, it seems obvious they should maybe table the idea of being able to use "divers" if the murky water is never going to be good enough. How about entertaining other ideas like more use of Sonar and then perhaps bring up the wreckage to the surface by just hooking a cable onto it and trying to hoist it to surface. They could even try a grappling hook device to snare the wreckage and those ships always have those cable retreive systems.

The depth is not that deep so it seems some other ideas may need to be used if the murky water continues to be an issue.

I am pretty sure suggestions like these have been offerred to their "officials". I hope they are being open minded about things.

If this incident occurred in Singapore i.e. Singapore Airlines (god forbid), we would be seeing a very different, picture. Everybody is trying to blame the next person from weather, air operators licence, earlier than usual sign on for this flight. It's ridiculous. Airline schedules can change quite regularly depending on the time of year and destination you have travelling to. Especially a business run i.e. Melbourne to Sydney these schedules are reduced over the XMAS period. If it was he case that they were not slotted to fly on a Sunday it does not been they are dangerous. The same procedures are applied on a Saturday as are on a Sunday. I smell some big fat RATS trying to cover their little botties.

 

[SouthAussie]

China sends naval ship to locate black box of AirAsia flight ...... Equipped with underwater search and detect devices and 48 divers, the Peoples' Liberation Army naval vessel left the Sanya port last night and would reach the area of the crash on January 9.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...cleshow/45773348.cms?imageid=45685626#slide76


A few ships with ping detectors and divers in the area now - US ping detectors, Russian detectors and divers, Chinese ones on the way.

There is also a slide show at the link - lots of photos of the vessels, aircraft and searchers.

 

[MsFacetious]

The families of the passengers have been offered a chance to fly to the location believed to be the crash site and lay flower wreaths, the commander of the Armed Forces, Gen Moeldoko, said in Surabaya.

They would fly to Pangkalan Bun, the nearest town, then be taken by a naval ship to the location in the Java Sea. He said he believed this might help "reduce their sadness and the feeling of loss".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30692223



I have seen a few news items talking about the families going to lay flower wreaths at the crash site. I am just wondering if they are considering doing this very soon .. and hoping not. Would it not be a bit confusing to the searchers, having a multitude of wreaths floating while they are trying to see debris? Maybe they are speaking about doing it in a month or so.

Maybe they are just telling the families this now because the families' patience has got to be running very thin and their anxiety levels may be quite high.

Ummm... that isn't my concern.
My concern is a loving family tossing a wreath in mourning their loved one...
And then a bloated body or two floats on by. :scared:

It is absurd to take them out there until the bodies and debris have been recovered. :twocents:

Thanks, and yes I usually take advantage of ordering a cocktail or 2 as soon as the flight attendants start serving as it does seem to help.

The best flight I had was the one where I had a screwdriver before take off.
We got upgraded to first class that time and they serve you BEFORE take off.
It was freaking amazing. I didn't even care about the take off. :giggle:

 

[SouthAussie]

Not sure if they will find any/many more people floating ... there were reports about them not floating any more after 5-8 days. I think the people found yesterday were strapped in their seats. We're in Day 10 now.

 

[SouthAussie]

AUSTRALIANS travelling to Indonesia have been advised to exercise a high degree of caution following intelligence about potential terrorist attacks.

The Department of Foreign Affairs says it is receiving information that indicates terrorists may be planning attacks in Indonesia, which could take place at any time.

The region has been area of terrorism activity for “some time”, Ms Bishop said.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...eat-in-indonesia/story-fnizu4n5-1227176087771
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-30692249

 

[newone]

AUSTRALIANS travelling to Indonesia have been advised to exercise a high degree of caution following intelligence about potential terrorist attacks.

The Department of Foreign Affairs says it is receiving information that indicates terrorists may be planning attacks in Indonesia, which could take place at any time.

The region has been area of terrorism activity for “some time”, Ms Bishop said.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/trave...eat-in-indonesia/story-fnizu4n5-1227176087771
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-30692249

with all of the media and multinational assistance there in the region == yikes==

 

[newone]

In the early days of this investigation, there was a pilot who expressed surprise that ATC did not notice descent on radar and it ''should have been noticed'' if the plane was on it's way down.

Hopefully aviation folks can clarify this .....

 

[SouthAussie]

Search teams including divers took advantage of a let-up in bad weather on Tuesday to try to reach the wreckage of an AirAsia jet, but nine days after the plane crashed officials said there was still no sign of the crucial black box flight recorders.

"Today's weather is friendly, the team can work," the head of Indonesia's search and rescue agency, Fransiskus Bambang Soelistyo, told a news conference in Jakarta.

.... there had been no "pings" detected from the black box's emergency locator beacon, possibly because it was buried in the seabed or the muddy water was impeding its signal.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/01/06/indonesia-airplane-idINL3N0UL2IZ20150106

 

[SouthAussie]

Indonesia's financial regulator said it did not believe the issue of whether the airline had the correct flight permits would affect insurers paying out on claims.

"AirAsia didn't fall because it was a Sunday," Firdaus Djaelani, non-bank financial institutions supervisor at the financial services authority, told reporters in Jakarta.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/01/06/indonesia-airplane-idINL3N0UL2IZ20150106


(But I guess, as we noted before, if it had been flying on its correct days it may have had room to manoeuvre.)

 

[newone]

Indonesia's financial regulator said it did not believe the issue of whether the airline had the correct flight permits would affect insurers paying out on claims.

"AirAsia didn't fall because it was a Sunday," Firdaus Djaelani, non-bank financial institutions supervisor at the financial services authority, told reporters in Jakarta.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2015/01/06/indonesia-airplane-idINL3N0UL2IZ20150106


(But I guess, as we noted before, if it had been flying on its correct days it may have had room to manoeuvre.)

ubm: now that made me chuckle.....just as I was thinking Jacques Cousteau is rolling in his heavenly realm shouting: ""suction dredge"" you fools! w/r/t

partial burial of the tail in the silty seabed.

 

[SouthAussie]

QZ8501 DAY 10

4.45pm: Indonesia's Transport Ministry now says that it has lifted the bar imposed on 16 flights from four airlines.
It says that from now onwards, all flights that are not according to scheduled routes will be barred immediately.
(Article says that barred flights were eight from Lion Air, five from AirAsia and one each from Wings Air, Trigana Air and Kalstar.)


3.45pm: The families of the deceased in the flight tragedy have refused the offer by the Indonesian army chief to be taken to site to conduct prayers and sow flowers at sea in memory of those who perished. They say they want the recovery of the bodies to be conducted as quickly as possible, says detik.com.


3.30pm: Meanwhile, a Japanese search vessel has found one body and it is in the midst of being retrieved. (That makes 38 found.)


12 noon: The Indonesian Search and Rescue Agency (Basarnas) says that there are fears that the bodies are now drifting to the Makassar Strait, which is between the islands of Borneo and Sulawesi.


10.15am: The Russian amphibian team says that they have made a number of findings in the sea last night and has today requested Indonesian army helicopters to the areas.

https://www.malaysiakini.com/news/285459

 

[winterrayne]

Im glad they decided not to go to the site. I was also paranoid about floating bodies ( along with wanting them to spend thier time searching instead). I was just searching for info on how long bodies can float for. It was kinda all over the place and dependant on many factors. The majority of what i read, did make it seem like the colder the water, the longer they usually float. Maybe sometimes up to weeks.