Retrieving wreckage from AirAsia Flight To Singapore- no survivors recovered #3

[Boodles]

Thanks SA, I was going to post this from Airlive saying the same.

http://www.airlive.net/2015/01/what...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

The rate of the climb increased rapidly within seconds to 6,000 ft a minute, before accelerating further to 8,400 ft a minute and finally 11,100 ft. The aircraft reached 37,600 ft just 54 seconds after it began to climb before it appeared to stall.

The aircraft began to fall at 6:18 a.m., dropping 1,500 ft in the first 6 seconds before reaching a rate of descent of 7,900 ft per minute until it reached 24,000 ft, at which point it disappeared from the radar.

This one I posted a couple of weeks ago showing the air traffic control location of all the nearby airplanes and elevations, still baffles me.

https://twitter.com/airlivenet/status/552109806941519874

So as described above, barring any changes in descent rate, it would have plunged for 4 minutes and 40 seconds. How horrific. But perhaps during that time, the panic passed and acceptance set in for the passengers. I sure hope so, because that's a long time. Seems they could have maydayed, although it probably wouldn't have made a difference, falling at that speed.

 

[Boodles]

We positioned chairs around the crew room which represented clouds. The guys were explaining what they would do if they were approaching/in nasty weather. Bearing in mind can change very, very quickly. I positioned he chairs so the AC (table) - was right in the middle. They all agreed they would have a called a PAN, followed by an emergency decent - and returned back to the originating airport.
I am truly gobsmacked that these bodies have not been recovered, lost for words !!!!

Whats a PAN, please?

 

[newone]

Whats a PAN, please?

''Three calls of pan-pan are used in radiotelephone communications[1][2][3] to signify that there is an urgency on board a boat, ship, aircraft, or other vehicle but that, for the time being at least, there is no immediate danger to anyone's life or to the vessel itself.[4] This is referred to as a state of urgency. This is distinct from a Mayday call, which means that there is imminent danger to life or to the continued viability of the vessel itself.[5] Thus "pan-pan" informs potential rescuers (including emergency services and other craft in the area) that a safety problem exists whereas "Mayday" will call upon them to drop all other activities and immediately initiate a rescue attempt.''

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-pan

 

[Boodles]

Thank you newone!

 

[Boodles]

Here's another guy to follow since Jackson Board stopped covering the story. He seems on top of things.

	IZ Reloaded (@izreloaded)

[TD="colspan: 2"] 1/21/15, 1:19 PM
3 teams of divers will attempt to reach #QZ8501 fuselage this Thursday morning. Estimated time of entering water is 05.28 local.

[/TD]

 

[gitana1]

So as described above, barring any changes in descent rate, it would have plunged for 4 minutes and 40 seconds. How horrific. But perhaps during that time, the panic passed and acceptance set in for the passengers. I sure hope so, because that's a long time. Seems they could have maydayed, although it probably wouldn't have made a difference, falling at that speed.

I'm sure they felt desperately trying to recover from their stall/free fall was more pressing than a mayday that could not have saved them. Not even close to a chance that a mayday would do a thing for them.

 

[itzkatiex0]

I'm glad they know what happened now. If I was one of the family members I wouldn't wanna know all the details. Just a brief explanation of what happened. Those poor people.. I can't imagine how scared they were. I've only flew a few times.. And I was scared to death. I don't think I'll ever fly again. Just going to the airport to drop someone off or pick them up gives me anxiety. I hope the families can start their mourning process. I truly think the pilots on this flight were heroes for trying everything they could to save those people.

 

[jslk]

Wow. I'm amazed about the stall tbh. I can't believe it can happen after AF447. Something very bad must've been happening for the crew to decide to take action which resulted in a stall. Or have I misunderstood? Did they climb deliberately or was the AC forced upwards against their intentions? Or don't we know yet?

 

[MsFacetious]

We don't know yet.
But it'd take a lot for me to believe this was pilot error.
I think it was fly by wire problem. :twocents:

And I think once the plane dropped off radar some control was regained.
Again, there is no way this plane kept falling at that rate and stayed so intact.
I still think they made a pretty decent landing considering the circumstances.

I just don't think they recovered in time to land safely. :twocents:

 

[K_Z]

If the plane was caught in a sudden updraft, at what altitude would passengers be affected by a lack of oxygen?

I think what you're talking about is "time of useful consciousness". That depends on whether or not the plane was still pressurized, or whether the crew/ passengers were exposed to the altitude, and if there was a rapid decompression. (And it seems they were losing altitude quickly after the brief climb, so the effects of altitude hypoxia may not have been the same as the chart, which is TUC at sustained altitudes.)

When I was an Air Force Flight Nurse, we trained in the hypobaric (altitude) chamber periodically to assess and learn our own responses to hypoxia at various simulated sustained altitudes. One of the most interesting things is how the rods and cones in your eyes respond first to the lower partial pressure of oxygen-- we trained with a "color wheel" and dropped our masks to watch the colors "gray out" at various altitudes, like the colors becoming a black and white photo. We also had to do various tasks, including manipulating toys and other training objects, write, etc.

Here is a wiki discussion of TUC (time of useful consciousness), with a table that correlates TUC/ hypoxia and altitude.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_of_useful_consciousness

However, you also have to factor in the g-forces everyone on the plane was experiencing during the plummet, as well as the attitude of the plane, trauma, panic, etc. If the fall was chaotic, and if most were conscious, just trying to manage your body and limbs is challenging. In the Pacific theater (I was stationed in Japan), we sometimes had to fly between or around bad storms to pick up or deliver an "urgent" patient. A few of the storms were particularly bad. In some of the worst turbulence and "drops", the only thing holding me in the seat was my seat belt. I was helpless to manage my head, neck, arms, and legs. I didn't like that kind of turbulence very much-- sometimes we would hear the "pull up" alarm going off in the C-9 cockpit about 6 feet away. That always made me worried.

 

[Snoods]

[video=twitter;558144841817665536]https://twitter.com/FlightSafe/status/558144841817665536?lang=en[/video]

 

[Snoods]

Five more bodies found still belted in their seats buried in silt near fuselage, bringing the total to 58 bodies recovered.

A total of 58 bodies have now been found following the crash of flight QZ8501 which went down on December 28 in stormy weather as it flew from the Indonesian city of Surabaya to Singapore.

"Our divers found five bodies buried in mud, close to the plane fuselage. They were still belted to their seats," S. B. Supriyadi, a rescue agency official coordinating the search, told AFP.

"We believe they spilled out of the fuselage, which is 50 to 100 metres away," he said.

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/...-bodies-belted-in-seats-near-airasia-fuselage

 

[Snoods]

[video=twitter;558124670026014723]https://twitter.com/FlightSafe/status/558124670026014723?lang=en[/video]

 

[emirates1957]

I think what you're talking about is "time of useful consciousness". That depends on whether or not the plane was still pressurized, or whether the crew/ passengers were exposed to the altitude, and if there was a rapid decompression. (And it seems they were losing altitude quickly after the brief climb, so the effects of altitude hypoxia may not have been the same as the chart, which is TUC at sustained altitudes.)

When I was an Air Force Flight Nurse, we trained in the hypobaric (altitude) chamber periodically to assess and learn our own responses to hypoxia at various simulated sustained altitudes. One of the most interesting things is how the rods and cones in your eyes respond first to the lower partial pressure of oxygen-- we trained with a "color wheel" and dropped our masks to watch the colors "gray out" at various altitudes, like the colors becoming a black and white photo. We also had to do various tasks, including manipulating toys and other training objects, write, etc.

Here is a wiki discussion of TUC (time of useful consciousness), with a table that correlates TUC/ hypoxia and altitude.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_of_useful_consciousness

However, you also have to factor in the g-forces everyone on the plane was experiencing during the plummet, as well as the attitude of the plane, trauma, panic, etc. If the fall was chaotic, and if most were conscious, just trying to manage your body and limbs is challenging. In the Pacific theater (I was stationed in Japan), we sometimes had to fly between or around bad storms to pick up or deliver an "urgent" patient. A few of the storms were particularly bad. In some of the worst turbulence and "drops", the only thing holding me in the seat was my seat belt. I was helpless to manage my head, neck, arms, and legs. I didn't like that kind of turbulence very much-- sometimes we would hear the "pull up" alarm going off in the C-9 cockpit about 6 feet away. That always made me worried.

WOW, how fascinating. If I had my day again, I would do nursing and join Air Ambulance. Sounds like a noble and worthy career. Pull up, and terrain terrain ain't what you want to here !!!

 

[sherlockh]

They said 'the alarms kept going off' which I think means the pilots failed to recover from the stall. JMO.

 

[SouthAussie]

Five more bodies found still belted in their seats buried in silt near fuselage, bringing the total to 58 bodies recovered.



http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/...-bodies-belted-in-seats-near-airasia-fuselage

I don't know what is going on. :gaah: They can locate 5 people close to the fuselage, but they still can't get to the fuselage because " .... visibility under water was only two metres."



And now it is being reported that it was six people that they found.

""We have found six bodies, four of whom were females and two males, all adults," Supriyadi said.

He said they were found among debris, with some still strapped into their seats, not far from the jet's main section."

http://www.smh.com.au/world/six-bod...hed-airasia-jet-fuselage-20150122-12wama.html

 

[SouthAussie]

This sounds a bit closer to the truth. And pretty frustrating.


"Detik News reports that there was some difficulty in relocating the fuselage. Sidescan sonar was used and the fuselage was discovered "a few centimeters" from the last reported coordinates. :sigh:

.... parts of the plane tend to get buried by sand and silt.

..... the fuselage is upright but the bottom part appears to be gone, as also parts of the wing." (What does that mean for the people? Are they there?)

http://www.science20.com/the_chatte...re_bodies_retrieved_more_data_released-152504

 

[SouthAussie]

Here is a larger image of the chart in the tweet that Snoods posted upthread. Shows the flight and it's ascent. Bit hard to read, but they have posted the recorded times too.

"From the above chart, we can see that AirAsia ascended from an altitude of 32,100 feet to an altitude of 37,350 feet: it gained 5,250 feet in just 41.4211 seconds."

http://www.science20.com/the_chatte...re_bodies_retrieved_more_data_released-152504

 

[jggordo]

And then dropped 13.35000 feet in a little over 2 seconds is that correct? That g-force has to be incredible. And I don't know what that would do to the oxygen inside the plane.

JMO's

 

[gregjrichards]

Five more bodies found still belted in their seats buried in silt near fuselage, bringing the total to 58 bodies recovered.



http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/...-bodies-belted-in-seats-near-airasia-fuselage

Thanks for this update snoods I'm so pleased more remains are being found for the distraught victims families. Here's hoping many more are found and they can be given a proper burial. Thanks for all your posts and updates everyone they are much appreciated.