Retrieving wreckage from AirAsia Flight To Singapore- no survivors recovered #3

[emirates1957]

- See more at: http://www.straitstimes.com/news/as...al-then-stalled#sthash.j79XZbBg.CLCL5m7L.dpuf

6,000 ft per minute seems like a hell of a lot. Will check with my puffy chested engineers, who by now are suffering from high cholesterol might have to pull back on the lemon meringue pies, and resort to pure flattery!!!!!

 

[emirates1957]

Take off climb rate to 20,000ft.....2,400 ft/min
20,000 to 30,000.....1,800 ft/min
Above 30,000.....1,200 ft/min

 

[newone]

Take off climb rate to 20,000ft.....2,400 ft/min
20,000 to 30,000.....1,800 ft/min
Above 30,000.....1,200 ft/min

so to be trucking along at 6000 plus they must have hit a typhoon

 

[emirates1957]

The guys did say that the sudden lift was not due to an updraft.....if so this could have ripped the wings off.

 

[Boodles]

The guys did say that the sudden lift was not due to an updraft.....if so this could have ripped the wings off.

So if not an updraft, how could it ascend upward so fast? Could they really gave accelerated the plane via its power?

(flattery = a good plan IMO)

 

[emirates1957]

So if not an updraft, how could it ascend upward so fast? Could they really gave accelerated the plane via its power?

(flattery = a good plan IMO)

It would appear the applied max power, and the aircraft has stalled. The FDR will be able give the precise parameters. The Flight Deck at this time as mentioned before would have been chaotic.

 

[gregjrichards]

It would appear the applied max power, and the aircraft has stalled. The FDR will be able give the precise parameters. The Flight Deck at this time as mentioned before would have been chaotic.

Thanks to you and your engineers for all your updates and replies emirates1957 they are much appreciated. Thank you to everyone else for their updates too. I wasn't surprised by this new information it was leaked in the airliners forum not long after the plane crashed by someone who claimed to be in contact with an Indonesian Official. Because it was only a rumour and couldn't be substantiated I didn't post it here. If the information is indeed accurate the poor crew and passengers must have had a hellish time towards the end of their lives.

I hope and pray the families are getting enough support dealing with finding out details of how their loved ones died and are able to ask any questions they may have. It is very sad no more remains are being found and the wreckage is no closer to being brought up. If they do wait till April when the typhoon season ends I wonder how much of an impact this would have on identifying remains and how much the wreckage will deteriorate between now and then for the investigation?

 

[emirates1957]

We positioned chairs around the crew room which represented clouds. The guys were explaining what they would do if they were approaching/in nasty weather. Bearing in mind can change very, very quickly. I positioned he chairs so the AC (table) - was right in the middle. They all agreed they would have a called a PAN, followed by an emergency decent - and returned back to the originating airport.
I am truly gobsmacked that these bodies have not been recovered, lost for words !!!!

 

[gregjrichards]

We positioned chairs around the crew room which represented clouds. The guys were explaining what they would do if they were approaching/in nasty weather. Bearing in mind can change very, very quickly. I positioned he chairs so the AC (table) - was right in the middle. They all agreed they would have a called a PAN, followed by an emergency decent - and returned back to the originating airport.
I am truly gobsmacked that these bodies have not been recovered, lost for words !!!!

I don't understand why the pilots didn't turn back in this case or in AF447. Are the crew under a tremendous amount of pressure not to turn back when facing really bad weather from the Airlines for financial reasons? Or is it this combined with not wanting to inconvenience the passengers? I'm not blaming the pilots at all it is just difficult to understand the reason to keep on going. Perhaps as you say in both instances the weather got really bad very suddenly and they never got the chance to turn back.

 

[KEVINinTO]

So if not an updraft, how could it ascend upward so fast? Could they really gave accelerated the plane via its power?

(flattery = a good plan IMO)

What probably happened is an updraft caused the nose of the aircraft to pitch up suddenly sending it into what is called a "zoom climb". At cruising altitude the aircraft was already travelling at a high rate of speed and a sudden nose pitch up would cause such a sudden rapid ascent as the kinetic energy of forward motion is converted into altitude. During this ascent the airspeed would rapidly decay until the aircraft stalled.

 

[newone]

What probably happened is an updraft caused the nose of the aircraft to pitch up suddenly sending it into what is called a "zoom climb". At cruising altitude the aircraft was already travelling at a high rate of speed and a sudden nose pitch up would cause such a sudden rapid ascent. During this ascent the airspeed would rapidly decay until the aircraft stalled.

if I am getting this right that means that 6000+speed would have been a very short duration?

 

[emirates1957]

What probably happened is an updraft caused the nose of the aircraft to pitch up suddenly sending it into what is called a "zoom climb". At cruising altitude the aircraft was already travelling at a high rate of speed and a sudden nose pitch up would cause such a sudden rapid ascent as the kinetic energy of forward motion is converted into altitude. During this ascent the airspeed would rapidly decay until the aircraft stalled.

This AC would have been travelling 8 miles per minute. If it was caught in an updraft given the fact that it was not severe enough to lets say cause major damage wouldn't the AC rise suddenly only to be pummelled by the downdraft, almost immediately. Either way it will be interesting to find out what altitude it actually reached. Thanks Kevin I have learnt something new.

 

[KEVINinTO]

if I am getting this right that means that 6000+speed would have been a very short duration?

Yes it would have been very short. It would not have been possible to sustain that rate of climb for very long before the aircraft stalled.

 

[SouthAussie]

if I am getting this right that means that 6000+speed would have been a very short duration?

They said it was during the flight's last minutes ....


Citing radar data, Mr Jonan said: "The plane, during the last minutes, went up faster than normal speed... then it stalled."

"I think it is rare even for a fighter jet to be able to climb 6,000ft per minute," he told a House of Representatives commission.

"The average speed of a commercial aircraft is probably between 1,000 and 2,000ft per minute because the aircraft is not designed to soar so fast."

When planes stall, their engines do not cut out but the wings no longer generate lift because there is not enough air passing over them, BBC transport correspondent Richard Westcott says.

This normally happens when the nose is pointing upwards for too long during a climb.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-30902237

 

[KEVINinTO]

This AC would have been travelling 8 miles per minute. If it was caught in an updraft given the fact that it was not severe enough to lets say cause major damage wouldn't the AC rise suddenly only to be pummelled by the downdraft, almost immediately. Either way it will be interesting to find out what altitude it actually reached. Thanks Kevin I have learnt something new.

I suppose that it is possible that it was pummeled by a downdraft at the apex of its ascent but at that point the big problem was the aircraft was in a severe stall condition. The Airbus has a fly-by-wire system that under *most* conditions makes it impossible to stall the aircraft and I wonder if this makes pilots complacent. We saw a similar scenario with AF447. A sudden upset at cruise from which the pilots could not recover.

To see how this built in protection works in practice check out this video from Bruce Dickinson (of Iron Maiden fame)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKBABNL-DDM

 

[SouthAussie]

Indonesia expects to complete the preliminary report on the December 28 crash of AirAsia Flight 8501, which killed 162 people, within a month but it won't be made public, the chief of the country's transportation safety agency said on Wednesday.

The stall warning of AsiaAir Flight 8501 can be heard going off on the cockpit voice recorder, a crash investigator said on Wednesday.

"The warning (alarms) kept on screaming, and in the background, they (the pilot and co-pilot) were trying to recover the plane," the crash investigator speaking on condition of anonymity said.

He added that the flight data recorder also showed that the stall warnings were going off.

The agency may release some information publicly on January 28, Mr Kurniadi said.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...t-wont-be-public/story-e6frg90f-1227192565366

 

[SouthAussie]

"The warning alarms, we can say, were screaming, while in the background they (the pilot and co-pilot) were busy trying to recover," the investigator said, adding the warnings were going off "for some time".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-screaming-before-crash-black-box-shows.html

 

[SouthAussie]

OMG .... absolutely terrifying. :cry:


At 6.17am on Dec 28, three minutes after air traffic control unsuccessfully tried to make contact and asked nearby aircraft to try to locate QZ8501, the A320 turned to the left and it began to climb from its altitude of 32,000 ft (9,750 metres), Jonan told a parliamentary hearing.

The rate of the climb increased rapidly within seconds to 6,000ft a minute, before accelerating further to 8,400ft a minute and finally 11,100ft. The aircraft reached 37,600ft just 54 seconds after it began to climb before it appeared to stall.

The aircraft began to fall at 6.18am, dropping 1,500ft in the first 6 seconds before reaching a rate of descent of 7,900ft per minute until it reached 24,000ft, at which point it disappeared from the radar.

Based on Jonan’s data, there did not appear to have been a controlled descent in the case of QZ8501 and the aircraft appeared to have fallen rapidly before crashing into the sea, they added.

http://www.nst.com.my/node/70411


The NTSC will hold a press conference on the AirAsia crash next Wednesday, but it was not clear how much will be disclosed.

 

[watcher9]

If the plane was caught in a sudden updraft, at what altitude would passengers be affected by a lack of oxygen?

 

[Dr. Know?]

Thanks SA, I was going to post this from Airlive saying the same.

http://www.airlive.net/2015/01/what...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

The rate of the climb increased rapidly within seconds to 6,000 ft a minute, before accelerating further to 8,400 ft a minute and finally 11,100 ft. The aircraft reached 37,600 ft just 54 seconds after it began to climb before it appeared to stall.

The aircraft began to fall at 6:18 a.m., dropping 1,500 ft in the first 6 seconds before reaching a rate of descent of 7,900 ft per minute until it reached 24,000 ft, at which point it disappeared from the radar.

This one I posted a couple of weeks ago showing the air traffic control location of all the nearby airplanes and elevations, still baffles me.

https://twitter.com/airlivenet/status/552109806941519874