REVISIT Does LE have enough evidence to Convict Casey on 1st Degree Murder?

Do you think LE has enough evidence to get Casey on 1st Degree Murder?

  • Yes

    Votes: 759 77.2%
  • No

    Votes: 84 8.5%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 140 14.2%

  • Total voters
    983
  • Poll closed .
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Oh she will be found guilty. But I don't want the DP off the table at all. Her choices are A> tell us where Caylee is & you can get the needle, which is really far kinder than the Caylee probably died. OR B> DON'T tell us and you get the chair. Its real simple A or B. I am so ready to go there and have a come to Jesus meeting with this chick. Course I cant but I sure would like to speak my mind. Can she get mail at jail? And I dont mean hate mail or threating mail, I just mean a straight up this is how I think kinda thing.


I think that you can call the jail that she is in and ask for Casey's address there. They have to give you her number and a bunch of stuff but I believe they will give you the info you need in order to write to her. Look at all of the girls that wrote to Scott Peterson after he went to jail :furious: I don't think you have to be on an approved list to write to a prisoner...only to visit.
 
Before voir dire commences, the trial judge gives both the prosecution and the defense a limited number of challenges that each side can use to eliminate jurors without cause. Jurors so tagged will be excused by the judge.

A person who wants to be seated on the jury would almost assuredly be the last person I would want seated.

I imagine quite a few people will disqualify themselves, too. I know I would.
 
That's false. It was the reverse. Other than the location of the bodies, everything the media had portrayed as inculpatory evidence prior to the start of the trial was revealed to be mythology during the trial. At the end of the trial, all prosecutors had for clear and unyielding inculpatory evidence was the location of the bodies, from which premeditation cannot be discerned.

People didn't like Scott's behavior, that not inculpatory evidence. People don't like Casey's behavior. That's not inculpatory evidence.

After Laci disappeared, Scott made false statements. That's not inculpatory evidence. After Caylee disappeared, Casey made false statements. That's not inculpatory evidence.

Scott allegedly showed consciousness of guilt. That's not inculpatory evidence. Casey allegedly showed consciousness of guilt. That's not inculpatory evidence.

A dog's nose allegedly says something was fishy in the Peterson case. That's not inculpatory evidence. A dog's nose allegedly says something is fishy in this case. That's not inculpatory evidence.

All of the above represents corroborative evidence. Corroborative evidence is bun. Where's the beef?


The beef is sitting on death row waiting for his turn with the needle. You forgot the cement and the weights...the cement in his driveway, the hair caught in the pliers, etc. The jury looked at all of the evidence and found ole Scott guilty.
 
The beef is sitting on death row waiting for his turn with the needle. You forgot the cement and the weights...the cement in his driveway, the hair caught in the pliers, etc. The jury looked at all of the evidence and found ole Scott guilty.

The evidence technician testified that the pliers had not been used recently. So the hair (the magical multiplying hair) is, at best, moot. Moreover, no one testified that it was Laci's hair. Still further, the detectives who found and handled the hair were both impeached on the witness stand.

As regards the concrete. No one testified that signature submerging weights were made by Scott. This can serve as a good example of speculation versus evidence in Caylee's case.

Speculation is not evidence and jurors are forbidden to speculate. Though after the trial, several jurors admitted that the jury did speculate, which is an appeal issue.

If you want to discuss Scott's case, you can do it in the parking lot or here.

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/scott-peterson/TC7F3IOR6GAA6IQH1
 
Gosh Wudge, I haven't seen you since the Scott P trial. you still are in his corner huh?:banghead:
 
This is a stupid question, but does anyone think the trial will be televised?

Tru Tv will probably have it as they do a lot of cases from Fl. Isn't it the judge's call if he/she will allow camera's in the court room?
 
Tru Tv will probably have it as they do a lot of cases from Fl. Isn't it the judge's call if he/she will allow camera's in the court room?

Wow, I thought I had no life now, just with the time I spend on this website. Can you imagine trying to keep up with 8 hours of televised trial proceedings every day?? And I won't want to miss a single minute of it! Thank G for DVR's!
 
I imagine quite a few people will disqualify themselves, too. I know I would.

About a decade ago, I started to advise attorneys and law students (future attorneys) to consider asking prospective jurors if they've closely followed other cases. If so, which cases.

If they respond affirmatively, then ask them which cases those were and if they pre-judged guilt in those cases or did they hold to a presumption of innocence throughout the trial. Finally, ask them if they posted online about those cases.
 
About a decade ago, I started to advise attorneys and law students (future attorneys) to consider asking prospective jurors if they've closely followed other cases. If so, which cases.

If they respond affirmatively, then ask them which cases those were and if they pre-judged guilt in those cases or did they hold to a presumption of innocence throughout the trial. Finally, ask them if they posted online about those cases.

That sounds like an excellent approach! :) That brief, four-pronged examination would seem to weed out pretty efficiently, hitting all the points.

Actually, BTW, I've been known to do a 180 if presented wih convincing evidence. But, I would still disqualify myself because I'm not POSITIVE of that, and because i have posted quite a lot on this case.
 
About a decade ago, I started to advise attorneys and law students (future attorneys) to consider asking prospective jurors if they've closely followed other cases. If so, which cases.

If they respond affirmatively, then ask them which cases those were and if they pre-judged guilt in those cases or did they hold to a presumption of innocence throughout the trial. Finally, ask them if they posted online about those cases.

So if you were called to jury duty & asked the same questions, I assume you would tell them you do not feel you should serve? I don't think it matters as long as you can judge only the evidence presented to you by both sides. Just because I think Casey is guilty does not mean I think everyone who has ever been tried was guilty.

Wudge, I think with all your knowledge & teaching of law student's you should offer to help Baez. He seems to be in over his head & should be grateful someone like you would offer their experience. Casey could sure use it.

My daughter attended law school at Campbell. She is studying in Europe at the moment but will finish at Campbell. When she returns this summer would you be interested in being a guest lecturer?
 
Gosh Wudge, I haven't seen you since the Scott P trial. you still are in his corner huh?:banghead:

Hello Shotzie, LTNS. After Dr. Sheppard's wrongful conviction was overturned and he was acquitted in his second trial, cases I considered to represent wrongful convictions, or have the strong potential to generate a wrongful conviction, continued to attract my attention -- like a moth to a flame. (chuckle) So, yes, I still follow Scott's case.

In many ways, I think a better comparative template for Caylee's case might be Elizabeth's Smart's case. In her case, I kept asking the case followers who knew Elizabeth Smart was dead (most everybody), how the State could prove Richard Ricci murdered Elizabeth without her body or some truly solid inculpatory evidence to that effect.

As always, the old party pooper advocated waiting for the trial and holding to the presumption of innocence until a trial was held and both sides rested their case. However, Elizabeth was most certainly dead. As usual, I was spoiling the fun.

Color me a forever party pooper. I'm far too old to change now.

(smile)
 
So if you were called to jury duty & asked the same questions, I assume you would tell them you do not feel you should serve? I don't think it matters as long as you can judge only the evidence presented to you by both sides. Just because I think Casey is guilty does not mean I think everyone who has ever been tried was guilty.

Wudge, I think with all your knowledge & teaching of law student's you should offer to help Baez. He seems to be in over his head & should be grateful someone like you would offer their experience. Casey could sure use it.

My daughter attended law school at Campbell. She is studying in Europe at the moment but will finish at Campbell. When she returns this summer would you be interested in being a guest lecturer?

If both sides wanted an expert assessment as to whether or not the evidence produced proof beyond a reasonable doubt, anything is possible (I guess).

As a reference point, I'm a strong advocate for the need for professional jurors.

As to whether I teach law students, watch your assumptions. Access comes in many ways, and anyway, I never give away personals.

Regarding Campbell, quite recently, I was in the Raleigh/Cary/Durham (RTP) area. North Carolina is the last state where I would want to practice criminal defense. It remains a cesspool of corruption. I trust she knows that, and I hope her plans do not include the practice of criminal "anything" there.

Hopefully, your daughter will graduate very high up in her class. Even in the top-tier law schools, it's all about grades. The more you move away from the top-tier (T1) law schools, the greater the need for students to graduate very high up in their class.

Around 42,000 law students graduate from U.S. law schools each year. After five years -- assuming trends hold -- around half of them will not be practicing law.
 
It took them only 30 minutes to come back with 7 charges...

I cannot begin to imagine the compelling evidence they have. I'm leaning more still toward premeditation.
--------------
The Grand Jury spoke.They have sat on other cases and I believe in their choice.I'm sure there is mmuch more than we know of.I'm quite sure of premeditation also.Talk about a huge waste! KC should look at herself..IMO
 
If both sides wanted an expert assessment as to whether or not the evidence produced proof beyond a reasonable doubt, anything is possible (I guess).

As a reference point, I'm a strong advocate for the need for professional jurors.

As to whether I teach law students, watch your assumptions. Access comes in many ways, and anyway, I never give away personals.

Regarding Campbell, quite recently, I was in the Raleigh/Cary/Durham (RTP) area. North Carolina is the last state where I would want to practice criminal defense. It remains a cesspool of corruption. I trust she knows that, and I hope her plans do not include the practice of criminal "anything" there.

Hopefully, your daughter will graduate very high up in her class. Even in the top-tier law schools, it's all about grades. The more you move away from the top-tier (T1) law schools, the greater the need for students to graduate very high up in their class.

Around 42,000 law students graduate from U.S. law schools each year. After five years -- assuming trends hold -- around half of them will not be practicing law.

I stand corrected, you did say "advise" & I assumed it was meant as advice from a professer. Yes, access does come in many ways. When my daughter was in both the public defender's office & prosecuter's office she had "access" to criminals & of course they had "access" to her. The clients she visited in jail gave her a lot of "advise." So yes, there a lot of ways, be it in a classroom, a jail cell or an article that has been published. It was not my intent to "p" you off OR try to solict personal info.

My daughter probably will practice in NC. Her desire is prosecution. Thank you for the advise on grades. She was on the deans list for her B.S. & her masters & did very well on her LSats. I am sorry you don't have a high regard for the NC court system. Other than the Duke case I am not aware of any problems. As you are aware, there are good and bad lawyers all over.

We will agree to disagree on the Casey case. I can only form my ideas based on what I know at this point. I am anxious to hear all the evidence on BOTH sides. And for what it's worth, I also favor professional jurors.
 
I stand corrected, you did say "advise" & I assumed it was meant as advice from a professer. Yes, access does come in many ways. When my daughter was in both the public defender's office & prosecuter's office she had "access" to criminals & of course they had "access" to her. The clients she visited in jail gave her a lot of "advise." So yes, there a lot of ways, be it in a classroom, a jail cell or an article that has been published. It was not my intent to "p" you off OR try to solict personal info.

My daughter probably will practice in NC. Her desire is prosecution. Thank you for the advise on grades. She was on the deans list for her B.S. & her masters & did very well on her LSats. I am sorry you don't have a high regard for the NC court system. Other than the Duke case I am not aware of any problems. As you are aware, there are good and bad lawyers all over.

We will agree to disagree on the Casey case. I can only form my ideas based on what I know at this point. I am anxious to hear all the evidence on BOTH sides. And for what it's worth, I also favor professional jurors.

Of all the places in the U.S. where I would avoid a position in a D.A.s office, it's North Carolina -- even Bakersfield, CA comes in 2nd.

For ease (and because it's late), I'm going to repost here what I fairly recently posted in the parking lot (S. Peterson thread 30, post 104) in response to a question on NC prosecutors.

"North Carolina remains corrupt, because its LE has forever manufactured incriminating evidence and hid exculpatory evidence. Likewise, D.A. offices have long hid, ignored, or turned a blind eye and a deaf ear to exculpatory evidence (Brady material). It's endemic. It's systemic. It's their culture. It's their way of life. They can't stop doing it. And it's never their fault.

Simply put, Nifong was no accident or aberration. Nifong perfectly represents NC justice. Decades will pass before jurisprudence in NC can hope to be clean.

Moreover, until recent years, prosecutors hid exculpatory evidence as a matter of a State policy by the Attorney General. That's not a joke. It was State policy to ignore three separate Supreme Court rulings -- Brady, Giglio, Bagley.

"In September, the state's senior prosecutor was in an unusual place: the witness stand. And what he said has caused quite a stir among lawyers around the state.

Jim Coman said under oath that the state Attorney General's Office had a policy of withholding a certain type of evidence helpful to defendants. As he described it, the policy would violate 30 years of U.S. Supreme Court rulings."

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/cri...ry/249929.html

While I was there, Freda Black -- she and James Harding were the prosecutors in the Michael Peterson murder trial -- was called to the witness stand. She admitted that in a case she prosecuted seven years ago that she, knowingly, did not follow-up on exculpatory evidence that assuredly could have prevented a wrongful conviction. The Judge, Orlando Hudson overturned the jury's verdict and went so far as to say that he did not believe that the man who had spent seven years in prison had committed the crime.

As I said, Nifong was no accident or abberation. The whole state is a cesspool of corruption."

You should advise your daughter to research: Alan Gell, Jonathon Hoffman, Alfred Riviera, Charles Munsey, Tim Hennis, Jerry Hamilton, and Darly Hunt (to name but a few cases akin to the Duke lacrosse rape case -- except those cases involve prosecutorial misdeeds/misconduct/malacious prosecution in murder cases.

She should really gain firsthand knowledge of just how bad the prosecutor situation is in NC before she associates her name with any D.A. office within that state, ethics remains a dirty word and honesty is still a laugher.

HTH
 
Quote by Manny: How could anyone walk into a court room in Florida and be impartial.

Quote by Unsaid: I could do it and would love to do it. I'd love the chance to see all the evidence and evaluate it for what it really is on my own without the media spin on it or public opinion as a distraction. I think they can find 11 other people like me lol.

I believe I could serve impartially on KC's jury and also wish I could having seen the mad dash to judgment, and the vitriol spewed here and elsewhere, in the media. Despite wishing I could I am nevertheless actually someone the defence should want. Surprisingly in this particular case, if anything, it might be the prosecution which would excuse me following preemptory, based solely upon having a 20 year-old daughter and two year-old granddaughter myself. Yet unlike many, I've found myself arguing multiple sides of this, and retained my objectivity while patiently awaiting the totality of evidence. But even I am wise enough to recognize the limitations of my impartiality. And I could not in all honesty say the same about all cases (ie the "Other" case we're so not discussing here or anywhere I gather but the parking lot lol), having

a) been eg a victim of domestic violence; and
b) because I am in all truthfulness at heart a poor legalist--thus at the point I am constrained by a "loophole" or technicality while faced with a mountain of circumstancial evidence so overwhelming as to defy un-reason I believe wisdom, mercy and a keen sense of justice for victims and their loved ones will inevitably prevail and always dictate my conscience (I see how I am lol). In other words I'd make a poor defense attorney as I'm prone to adhere to the spirit, versus the letter of the law (ie being a strict jurist... or are jurors even given such an instruction--in which case I might not be disqualified afterall!) The same sense of justice that also means eg that were we (God forbid) living this very nightmare, as much as I love my own daughter if I had evidence that she had caused any harm to her daughter I do not believe I could ever sit by and assist her in avoiding consequences much less perpetuate, or participate in, any deceit. Yet even this ultimately is dictated by mercy as I think collusion/complicity with the denial or deception of a child by a parent, which could result in a sentence for that child of life and possibly death, could undoubtedly rank among the most heinous, selfish acts that any parent could ever perpetrate upon their own child. Of course we have no idea in this case what the State knows nor even it's theory. Just being real, hope that made sense. To LeLe it does sound pervasive, then again maybe NC needs more people like your daughter to come in and start shaking things up. (I know, I make as good a cynic as I do legalist or criminal da lol.) JMHUO (unprofessional)
 
Quote by Manny: How could anyone walk into a court room in Florida and be impartial.

SNIP

In other words I'd make a poor defense attorney as I'm prone to adhere to the spirit, versus the letter of the law (ie being a strict jurist... or are jurors even given such an instruction--in which case I might not be disqualified afterall!)

You would most certainly would make a poor defense attorney -- as well as a poor juror in my mind. For it appears that you think some mystical "spirit of the law" is available to guide your approach/conduct/decision. To me, this phantom "spirit of the law" rings loudly of a stealth juror mindset.

If you were to mention "spirit of the law" during voir dire, that should cause the antenna of any defense attorney (with half a working brain cell) to proceed with extreme caution as they start into what should be a very deep dig.
 
You would most certainly would make a poor defense attorney -- as well as a poor juror in my mind. For it appears that you think some mystical "spirit of the law" is available to guide your approach/conduct/decision. To me, this phantom "spirit of the law" rings loudly of a stealth juror mindset.

If you were to mention "spirit of the law" during voir dire, that should cause the antenna of any defense attorney (with half a working brain cell) to proceed with extreme caution as they start into what should be a very deep dig.

Why thank you Wudge dear, I'll take this as high praise indeed as I've hardly ever aspired to be a defense attorney (smile) but rather take considerable comfort in the fact I have a heart as WELL as a brain lol. But many warm fuzzy returns to you too lol.
:blowkiss:
 
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