RIP Common Sense

Your problem, Roy, is you can't seem to understand that no one is going to ever be convicted on that DNA. Not the Ramseys; not a stranger/intruder.

There is a mountain of evidence in this case that has never been and will never be traced to anyone, anywhere, but the Ramseys and their home.

Period.

Considering that Patsy wrote the ransom note, that JonBenet was being molested before the night she was murdered, and that the Ramseys have covered up for the molester and killer for 15 years, it's a no-brainer: the Ramseys did it. All of it.

Following the evidence, John and Patsy handled the body: Patsy's clothing fibers were tied into the knots of the garrote; John's shirt fibers were found in the genital area where the victim had been wiped down before she was redressed. The staging was so obvious, even John realized the weaknesses when he was allowed to "find" the body and told Arndt it was an inside job.

I don't know you or what kind of stake you have in this case. What I do know is no one who can objectively look at the actual, factual evidence in this case can possibly rule the Ramseys out.

What Beckner was acknowledging--what everyone in LE has to accept at this point--is this: Team Ramsey has had two corrupt D.A's., both of whom hired and worked with Ramsey master-propagandist Lou Smit and his cronies; they also had a powerful Defense Team even O.J. would envy; by the time Hunter buried the grand jury, the Ramseys had hired media and civil law expert Lin Wood casting a long shadow over anyone who dares to speak the truth about this case; throw in self-promoting, international propagandist Michael Tracey providing 15 years of public relations spin and faux suspects, and it would take someone with either incredible heart or incredible balls to stand against this juggernaut of injustice. There is equally little doubt much went on behind the legal and media scenes which was influenced by the heady power of Lockheed Martin's undeniable world-class connections, burying evidence, creating disinformation at every twist and turn. Even Beckner knew when he was defeated. He probably knew it on Day Two, in fact.

So of course, the DNA at this point would have to be sourced to try anyone--ANYONE. How many ignorant people now say, Oh, the Ramseys have bee PROVEN innocent with that DNA, haven't they?

But if they found that DNA donor tomorrow, and even if he were a child molester who for decades lived in Boulder, that would NOT be enough to convict him. Not in any court, anywhere.

All any defense attorney will ever have to bring up in front of a jury/judge is the ransom note and that Patsy could NOT be eliminated as its author/writer, the many evasions and lies the Ramseys told LE, their "inconclusive" results from TWO of THEIR OWN self-sponsored polygraph examiners, and the fact that LE/Hunter/Lacy NEVER got copies of the Ramseys full cell phone records with any subpoena, nor for their clothes, for that matter. The fibers, the autopsy evidence--what DA is going to explain how that "stranger intruder" managed to molest carefully watched JonBenet right under her family's noses, and they never caught on? Or more incredulous, they helped cover it up then, too, even after she was murdered? There are not 12 people outside a nut farm who would believe there's no reasonable doubt some stranger committed this crime because A FEW SKIN CELLS from him were harvested during mucho evidence processing by MANY labs and technicians over a period of 12 years--surely lab contamination is impossible!

Didn't you ever wonder why Team Ramsey was always so willing to concede this "intruder" could be dead? Ha! He could have been already dead when JonBenet was murdered, lying in a morgue somewhere while his autopsy or case evidence was being processed--a few skin cells handled by a lab tech who had no idea how easily this case would be thwarted with future, overly sensitive DNA-testing that would prove--nothing!

So you hang on to that DNA for dear life: SKIN CELLS, my man. Not blood; not semen; SKIN CELLS, of which we all shed thousands a day--look at those dust bunnies under your bed and couch.

Hang on to it, because it's all you're ever going to have.

And Burke is going to live his entire life under that umbrella of suspicion, because his parents were so arrogant, so egotistical, so without responsibility and parental duty to their molested, beaten, and strangled child, that instead of doing the right thing and calling for professional help, handling the sickness that was theirs to answer for under the laws any of the rest of us would have been subjected to, they chose to burden society and innumerable innocent people with their lies and crimes.

Imagine if they'd only swallowed their pride and gotten help when it was discovered she was first being molested.

Oh well. That's the nature of incest; take it to the grave. So one or more of them helped her do that, with some intent at least, IMO.



Agh KK, but you are the one with the problem. I know you can't see it and will never admit to it. This mountain of evidence you refer too is comedic. They didn't and still don't have enough to even indict a Ramsey. They cant source the information in the house to have it hold up. And you guys would have me think Aunt Pam was in on the conspiricy as well.

As far as Patsy writing the note, that is also not proven. As a matter of fact, Michael couldn't even let the examiners that would say it was probable she wrote it to testify. There are standards that licensed examiners must have and these two did not. The other licensed examiners either stated she did not write it or they could not exclude her. In Court, they would have been murdered on this.

I don't have a stake in this case. But I do care about it. And I once knew more about it from a friend. Those minute skin cells are the fabric of this case. Would it get a conviction? Probably not by itself. They spent years trying to prove it was innocent transfer to no avail. They got other corroborating DNA to support it before even the touch DNA. But I know that won't matter to you. It matters to LE though. And they covered their bases trying to find an innocent source. I think Mr. Beckner did an about face when isolating the area of the Long Johns that the lab came back with the same DNA BUT in its COMPLETE FORM with the markers needed.

The fibers I also laugh at because you are suggesting they match.

Let me say this about two corrupt DA's. I know you won't say that is far fetched. But remember I mentioned it before you suggest that the new DA is corrupt as well. You guys are putting square pegs in round holes. And you guys are in the same position as IDI. The DNA has to be sourced. It is from a person who is out there and he is real. And this is why there has been no trial. You say secondary transfer and I say murderer. The RDI case never put the ham in the sandwich and never will.
 
Your problem, Roy, is you can't seem to understand that no one is going to ever be convicted on that DNA. Not the Ramseys; not a stranger/intruder.

There is a mountain of evidence in this case that has never been and will never be traced to anyone, anywhere, but the Ramseys and their home.

Period.

Considering that Patsy wrote the ransom note, that JonBenet was being molested before the night she was murdered, and that the Ramseys have covered up for the molester and killer for 15 years, it's a no-brainer: the Ramseys did it. All of it.

Following the evidence, John and Patsy handled the body: Patsy's clothing fibers were tied into the knots of the garrote; John's shirt fibers were found in the genital area where the victim had been wiped down before she was redressed. The staging was so obvious, even John realized the weaknesses when he was allowed to "find" the body and told Arndt it was an inside job.

I don't know you or what kind of stake you have in this case. What I do know is no one who can objectively look at the actual, factual evidence in this case can possibly rule the Ramseys out.

What Beckner was acknowledging--what everyone in LE has to accept at this point--is this: Team Ramsey has had two corrupt D.A's., both of whom hired and worked with Ramsey master-propagandist Lou Smit and his cronies; they also had a powerful Defense Team even O.J. would envy; by the time Hunter buried the grand jury, the Ramseys had hired media and civil law expert Lin Wood casting a long shadow over anyone who dares to speak the truth about this case; throw in self-promoting, international propagandist Michael Tracey providing 15 years of public relations spin and faux suspects, and it would take someone with either incredible heart or incredible balls to stand against this juggernaut of injustice. There is equally little doubt much went on behind the legal and media scenes which was influenced by the heady power of Lockheed Martin's undeniable world-class connections, burying evidence, creating disinformation at every twist and turn. Even Beckner knew when he was defeated. He probably knew it on Day Two, in fact.

So of course, the DNA at this point would have to be sourced to try anyone--ANYONE. How many ignorant people now say, Oh, the Ramseys have bee PROVEN innocent with that DNA, haven't they?

But if they found that DNA donor tomorrow, and even if he were a child molester who for decades lived in Boulder, that would NOT be enough to convict him. Not in any court, anywhere.

All any defense attorney will ever have to bring up in front of a jury/judge is the ransom note and that Patsy could NOT be eliminated as its author/writer, the many evasions and lies the Ramseys told LE, their "inconclusive" results from TWO of THEIR OWN self-sponsored polygraph examiners, and the fact that LE/Hunter/Lacy NEVER got copies of the Ramseys full cell phone records with any subpoena, nor for their clothes, for that matter. The fibers, the autopsy evidence--what DA is going to explain how that "stranger intruder" managed to molest carefully watched JonBenet right under her family's noses, and they never caught on? Or more incredulous, they helped cover it up then, too, even after she was murdered? There are not 12 people outside a nut farm who would believe there's no reasonable doubt some stranger committed this crime because A FEW SKIN CELLS from him were harvested during mucho evidence processing by MANY labs and technicians over a period of 12 years--surely lab contamination is impossible!

Didn't you ever wonder why Team Ramsey was always so willing to concede this "intruder" could be dead? Ha! He could have been already dead when JonBenet was murdered, lying in a morgue somewhere while his autopsy or case evidence was being processed--a few skin cells handled by a lab tech who had no idea how easily this case would be thwarted with future, overly sensitive DNA-testing that would prove--nothing!

So you hang on to that DNA for dear life: SKIN CELLS, my man. Not blood; not semen; SKIN CELLS, of which we all shed thousands a day--look at those dust bunnies under your bed and couch.

Hang on to it, because it's all you're ever going to have.

And Burke is going to live his entire life under that umbrella of suspicion, because his parents were so arrogant, so egotistical, so without responsibility and parental duty to their molested, beaten, and strangled child, that instead of doing the right thing and calling for professional help, handling the sickness that was theirs to answer for under the laws any of the rest of us would have been subjected to, they chose to burden society and innumerable innocent people with their lies and crimes.

Imagine if they'd only swallowed their pride and gotten help when it was discovered she was first being molested.

Oh well. That's the nature of incest; take it to the grave. So one or more of them helped her do that, with some intent at least, IMO.

Yes, Beckner does know who is responsible for the death of JonBenet, the individuals under the umbrella of suspicion.
Read up on the real Beckner
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Unknown male DNA and the panties discussion


"New Task Force
On Feb. 2, Boulder police Chief Mark Beckner held a press conference to announce the formation of a cold case task force made up of veteran law enforcement members from a variety of agencies including the FBI to review evidence and explore theories. Beckner said at the time that he believed the murder could be solved because of the advances in both DNA and linguistics technology.

Garnett, a former Denver prosecutor who has been trying cases for nearly 27 years, won't comment on what Beckner might test. Instead, he remembers where he was the day JonBenét's body was discovered: skiing with his two teenage sons. He says he didn't jump to conclusions then and he won't now. "The evidence," he says, "will define what happens in this case."
 
Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner said today the FBI, the CBI, the Colorado Attorney General’s Office, the Denver DA’s Office and both the Boulder County and Jefferson County Sheriff’s Offices will be participating on the advisory task force.

“After more than 12 years, the bottom line is that we still have an unsolved homicide,” said Beckner. “This effort will be focused on reviewing the case and evidence from beginning to end in the hope that we will come up with new ideas on efforts that could lead to additional evidence. We are doing this for JonBenet.”

Beckner said that the department plans to approach the Ramsey murder as a “cold case” and that the people on the task force will be “veteran investigators.”

The group will meet for a two-day “pow-wow” some time in the next few weeks to review all evidence in the case and identify additional testing that might be done and evidence that might be looked at.

The goal of the task force is to “explore all possible theories about what happened the night JonBenet was killed.” Beckner said he wants to go into the pow-wow “clean” and with no preconceived notions.

“We are open to all possibilities,” he said.

"Boulder District Attorney Stan Garnett said that the investigation has been moved back to the police department from the Boulder DA’s office because the department has the best resources to find the killer who strangled and sexually assaulted the child in December 1996.

Garnett said he fully supports Beckner’s decision to reactivate the police department’s investigation.

“District attorneys prosecute and police investigate,” said Garnett. “I have carefully reviewed the state of the evidence in the Ramsey case, meeting with many people both inside and outside my office.

“Based on the state of this evidence, no charges can be filed against anyone in this case at this time.”
 
"New Task Force
On Feb. 2, Boulder police Chief Mark Beckner held a press conference to announce the formation of a cold case task force made up of veteran law enforcement members from a variety of agencies including the FBI to review evidence and explore theories. Beckner said at the time that he believed the murder could be solved because of the advances in both DNA and linguistics technology.

Garnett, a former Denver prosecutor who has been trying cases for nearly 27 years, won't comment on what Beckner might test. Instead, he remembers where he was the day JonBenét's body was discovered: skiing with his two teenage sons. He says he didn't jump to conclusions then and he won't now. "The evidence," he says, "will define what happens in this case."
Over a year and a half after the task force examined the evidence and with ample opportunity for any new DNA testing results to be returned for consideration, the Ramseys were un-exonerated.
 
Over a year and a half after the task force examined the evidence and with ample opportunity for any new DNA testing results to be returned for consideration, the Ramseys were un-exonerated.

Mary Lacy had no right to exonerate anyone. And a new DA would never have to keep that promise. They only said that to protect the integrity of the investigation. One that centralizes around DNA if you read it.
 
“Based on the state of this evidence, no charges can be filed against anyone in this case at this time.”
The Boulder DA’s office has a rich history of being scared to prosecute; the Midyette case and others illustrate that fact. Fear of “reasonable doubt” has prevented many cases from going to trial; it’s not necessarily a reflection on the amount of evidence.
 
The Boulder DA’s office has a rich history of being scared to prosecute; the Midyette case and others illustrate that fact. Fear of “reasonable doubt” has prevented many cases from going to trial; it’s not necessarily a reflection on the amount of evidence.

I am aware of that. But you have to be foolish to think this case had enough evidence it still doesn't according to Stan Garnett.
 
Mary Lacy had no right to exonerate anyone. And a new DA would never have to keep that promise. They only said that to protect the integrity of the investigation. One that centralizes around DNA if you read it.
Plenty of people have been cleared, and remain cleared. The Ramseys don’t fall into that category because of the evidence amassed against them, some of which was outlined by KoldKase, which you dismissed.
 
Plenty of people have been cleared, and remain cleared. The Ramseys don’t fall into that category because of the evidence amassed against them, some of which was outlined by KoldKase, which you dismissed.

“Based on the state of this evidence, no charges can be filed against anyone in this case at this time.” Stan Garnett
 
Plenty of people have been cleared, and remain cleared. The Ramseys don’t fall into that category because of the evidence amassed against them, some of which was outlined by KoldKase, which you dismissed.

Nope, that ain't it Cynic. It has got to do with a future defendant in this case having an attorney that is gonna go buck wild on Mary Lacy's decision. Hang in there cause sooner or later I am gonna bust you up on this like a red headed stepchild once the BPD starts to talk.
 
Nope, that ain't it Cynic. It has got to do with a future defendant in this case having an attorney that is gonna go buck wild on Mary Lacy's decision. Hang in there cause sooner or later I am gonna bust you up on this like a red headed stepchild once the BPD starts to talk.
What does that have to do with the fact there is a group of people who were cleared, and remain cleared. Why haven’t they been un-exonerated? Why have the Ramseys been un-exonerated?
 
What does that have to do with the fact there is a group of people who were cleared, and remain cleared. Why haven’t they been un-exonerated? Why have the Ramsey’s been un-exonerated?

There is no such thing as un-exonerated. Mr. Garnett did not have to file a signal form to take away an exoneration. This is all to do with politics. SG never ever had to conform to a personal letter written by ML. Please, though, send the documents from SG taking away this eternal right that was given to the Ramsey's. ML was a little unprofessional and SG was looking at the case from the very beginning. That doesn't have to do with a DNA that they claim is the key to the case though.
 
There is no such thing as un-exonerated. Mr. Garnett did not have to file a signal form to take away an exoneration. This is all to do with politics. SG never ever had to conform to a personal letter written by ML. Please, though, send the documents from SG taking away this eternal right that was given to the Ramsey's. ML was a little unprofessional and SG was looking at the case from the very beginning. That doesn't have to do with a DNA that they claim is the key to the case though.
I don't see an answer to my question anywhere there.
It is a fact there is a group of people who were cleared and remain cleared. Why haven’t they been un-exonerated? Why have the Ramsey’s been un-exonerated
Lacy cleared the Ramseys, Garnett un-cleared them. Many remain cleared, I ask again, why?
 
I don't see an answer to my question anywhere there.
It is a fact there is a group of people who were cleared and remain cleared. Why haven’t they been un-exonerated? Why have the Ramsey’s been un-exonerated
Lacy cleared the Ramseys, Garnett un-cleared them. Many remain cleared, I ask again, why?

DNA. The Ramsey have never been un-exonerated. He just said he doesn't have to abide by Lacy's letter.
 
DNA. The Ramsey have never been un-exonerated. He just said he doesn't have to abide by Lacy's letter.
Now you’re denying what is obvious, that the Ramsey’s have been un-exonerated.
I understand.
 
What happens when your "common sense" turns out to be wrong, and an innocent person gets their life ruined? What restitution do YOU make then?

There are plenty of people who have been shown irrefutably to be innocent in old cases where DNA is retested. And those are just the tip of the iceberg - in most cases where an innocent person is convicted there is not going to be that sort of evidence to exonerate them. And usually, it was mostly "common sense" that convicted those people. They will never get justice against those who wronged them. The jury, the judge, the prosecutor...they never have to answer for the wrong they have done in such situations

That is why it is so important to use EVIDENCE to convict people, not your "feeling". As bad as killing a child is, putting someone in a cage for twenty years for a crime they didn't do is far, far, far worse.

I know all that, Tugela. My point is you have to have sense to weigh the evidence. Facts themselves have to be constructed to tell a specific story. What bothers me in this case and that of Caylee Anthony is that no one seemed to care about doing that.
 
I know all that, Tugela. My point is you have to have sense to weigh the evidence. Facts themselves have to be constructed to tell a specific story. What bothers me in this case and that of Caylee Anthony is that no one seemed to care about doing that.

Now why should we insult Tugela like this. Tugela understands that evidence more than anything is why this never saw a courtroom. I mean I understand that you think it is possible that LE could have gotton a confession somehow but it doesn't have 1/100th of the evidence as in the Casey Anthony case.

By the way Tugela, thanks for laying out the smackdown of reality on this thread.
 
OH, come on, guys. Y'all can't possibly think that any DA would ever take this case to trial.

There would be so many defense attorneys lined up to defend ANYONE charged with this crime, they'd have to take a number.

And what exactly do you think would come out of that?

A defense attorney would start by raking the BPD and the BDA dept's. OVER THE COALS for all the mistakes they made, all the UNETHICAL backroom deals that went down, all the azz-kizzing they did for the Ramseys, not to mention ALL THE LAWS THAT WERE BROKEN.

Then there's the money. Maybe I'm just cynical...oh, wait, that's you, cynic, lol...but I can't imagine any DA in Boulder ever seriously committing the resources to try this case, no matter whom they might attempt to convict. Like most counties in this country, they're already broke. How long did it take to try OJ? Now think of how long it would take a defense team to get up to speed in this case? How long would the actual trial last?

It only took PERV Karr's public defender a few days to get the charges dropped and to get him released, remember. There was a reason for that, and it wasn't just DNA.

That crap Mark Beckner said about a "two day" task force...oh puhleeze. Who exactly could come in cold, look at this case IN TWO DAYS, and have even read the LE interviews with the Ramseys in that time?

DNA? Let's cut to the chase: yes, the DNA now HAS to be sourced before anyone can even pretend they might arrest a suspect. Mary Lacy saw to that.

But Mary Lacy didn't give the Ramseys any "eternal rights", either. What Lacy gave the Ramseys was a rubber stamp of "ETERNALLY UNSOLVED" on the case of the murder of their daughter. She made sure that what Alex Hunter started, she'd finished. That JR accepted that is just more evidence that neither he nor Patsy ever wanted this case solved--as their actions proved from Day One.

DA Garnett and Chief Beckner know where the bodies are buried. They belong to the same LE club as Hunter and Lacy. So it was nothing but PR for show when Garnett took office and gave the case back to Beckner, then held a press conference. Garnett doesn't want the corruption of two former BDAs shadowing his time in office; and Beckner wanted the opportunity to thumb his nose back at Lacy for playing along with Wood and forcing the investigation out of the BPD's rightful jurisdiction in the first place--an UNPRECEDENTED act of unethical bias which defined Lacy to the end.

They got all they intended from their dog and pony show, and if we hear of more than an occasional request for Burke to give an interview, I'll be very surprised.
 
OH, come on, guys. Y'all can't possibly think that any DA would ever take this case to trial.

There would be so many defense attorneys lined up to defend ANYONE charged with this crime, they'd have to take a number.

And what exactly do you think would come out of that?

A defense attorney would start by raking the BPD and the BDA dept's. OVER THE COALS for all the mistakes they made, all the UNETHICAL backroom deals that went down, all the azz-kizzing they did for the Ramseys, not to mention ALL THE LAWS THAT WERE BROKEN.

Then there's the money. Maybe I'm just cynical...oh, wait, that's you, cynic, lol...but I can't imagine any DA in Boulder ever seriously committing the resources to try this case, no matter whom they might attempt to convict. Like most counties in this country, they're already broke. How long did it take to try OJ? Now think of how long it would take a defense team to get up to speed in this case? How long would the actual trial last?

It only took PERV Karr's public defender a few days to get the charges dropped and to get him released, remember. There was a reason for that, and it wasn't just DNA.

That crap Mark Beckner said about a "two day" task force...oh puhleeze. Who exactly could come in cold, look at this case IN TWO DAYS, and have even read the LE interviews with the Ramseys in that time?

DNA? Let's cut to the chase: yes, the DNA now HAS to be sourced before anyone can even pretend they might arrest a suspect. Mary Lacy saw to that.

But Mary Lacy didn't give the Ramseys any "eternal rights", either. What Lacy gave the Ramseys was a rubber stamp of "ETERNALLY UNSOLVED" on the case of the murder of their daughter. She made sure that what Alex Hunter started, she'd finished. That JR accepted that is just more evidence that neither he nor Patsy ever wanted this case solved--as their actions proved from Day One.

DA Garnett and Chief Beckner know where the bodies are buried. They belong to the same LE club as Hunter and Lacy. So it was nothing but PR for show when Garnett took office and gave the case back to Beckner, then held a press conference. Garnett doesn't want the corruption of two former BDAs shadowing his time in office; and Beckner wanted the opportunity to thumb his nose back at Lacy for playing along with Wood and forcing the investigation out of the BPD's rightful jurisdiction in the first place--an UNPRECEDENTED act of unethical bias which defined Lacy to the end.

They got all they intended from their dog and pony show, and if we hear of more than an occasional request for Burke to give an interview, I'll be very surprised.

Sometimes I hate your posts and sometimes I love them. And although I think you are wrong, I honestly believe that all you want is justice. And I don't believe that for everyone. And that includes IDI as well.
 
Now why should we insult Tugela like this. Tugela understands that evidence more than anything is why this never saw a courtroom. I mean I understand that you think it is possible that LE could have gotton a confession somehow but it doesn't have 1/100th of the evidence as in the Casey Anthony case.

By the way Tugela, thanks for laying out the smackdown of reality on this thread.

You have a very selective memory, unless you have managed to miss most of the evidence that is factually laid out in this case.

Or perhaps you need to read up on the law: cynic can help you on that, particularly.

Murderers have been convicted without a body, without a weapon, and without a crime scene.

In this case, they had enough evidence to put Patsy Ramsey in prison for many years.

And they should have.
 

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