RIP Common Sense

[KoldKase]

Sometimes I hate your posts and sometimes I love them. And although I think you are wrong, I honestly believe that all you want is justice. And I don't believe that for everyone. And that includes IDI as well.

:seeya: Thanks...I think. :waitasec:

 

[Roy23]

OH, come on, guys. Y'all can't possibly think that any DA would ever take this case to trial.

There would be so many defense attorneys lined up to defend ANYONE charged with this crime, they'd have to take a number.

And what exactly do you think would come out of that?

A defense attorney would start by raking the BPD and the BDA dept's. OVER THE COALS for all the mistakes they made, all the UNETHICAL backroom deals that went down, all the azz-kizzing they did for the Ramseys, not to mention ALL THE LAWS THAT WERE BROKEN.

Then there's the money. Maybe I'm just cynical...oh, wait, that's you, cynic, lol...but I can't imagine any DA in Boulder ever seriously committing the resources to try this case, no matter whom they might attempt to convict. Like most counties in this country, they're already broke. How long did it take to try OJ? Now think of how long it would take a defense team to get up to speed in this case? How long would the actual trial last?

It only took PERV Karr's public defender a few days to get the charges dropped and to get him released, remember. There was a reason for that, and it wasn't just DNA.

That crap Mark Beckner said about a "two day" task force...oh puhleeze. Who exactly could come in cold, look at this case IN TWO DAYS, and have even read the LE interviews with the Ramseys in that time?

DNA? Let's cut to the chase: yes, the DNA now HAS to be sourced before anyone can even pretend they might arrest a suspect. Mary Lacy saw to that.

But Mary Lacy didn't give the Ramseys any "eternal rights", either. What Lacy gave the Ramseys was a rubber stamp of "ETERNALLY UNSOLVED" on the case of the murder of their daughter. She made sure that what Alex Hunter started, she'd finished. That JR accepted that is just more evidence that neither he nor Patsy ever wanted this case solved--as their actions proved from Day One.

DA Garnett and Chief Beckner know where the bodies are buried. They belong to the same LE club as Hunter and Lacy. So it was nothing but PR for show when Garnett took office and gave the case back to Beckner, then held a press conference. Garnett doesn't want the corruption of two former BDAs shadowing his time in office; and Beckner wanted the opportunity to thumb his nose back at Lacy for playing along with Wood and forcing the investigation out of the BPD's rightful jurisdiction in the first place--an UNPRECEDENTED act of unethical bias which defined Lacy to the end.

They got all they intended from their dog and pony show, and if we hear of more than an occasional request for Burke to give an interview, I'll be very surprised.

I think much of this is true by the way. They got big problems and always had big problems. This is one of the reasons they went after the Ramsey's to begin with. But I think they got something important in CODIS, (yeah yeah KK that little ole skin cell set that I hang my hat on). And just like all politicians, when they get a match they will all run to the podium to take credit. And be damned with the prior thoughts of having their feelings hurt for doing such a crappy job in the beginning.

 

[Roy23]

You have a very selective memory, unless you have managed to miss most of the evidence that is factually laid out in this case.

Or perhaps you need to read up on the law: cynic can help you on that, particularly.

Murderers have been convicted without a body, without a weapon, and without a crime scene.

In this case, they had enough evidence to put Patsy Ramsey in prison for many years.

And they should have.

No they didn't. And that more than any other reason is why they didn't try. Don't even need DNA for it to be laughed out of court. Lou Smit versus ST. hahahahaha

 

[KoldKase]

Sometimes I hate your posts and sometimes I love them. And although I think you are wrong, I honestly believe that all you want is justice. And I don't believe that for everyone. And that includes IDI as well.

One other thing: the truth can be very ugly. In this case, it's heartbreaking.

JonBenet was exploited and abused in so many ways, murdered, and then abandoned by her family at the very moment she was most vulnerable. I believe they did this because they wanted to protect themselves.

Maybe that's human. Maybe it's understandable as a human reaction, the instinct of self-preservation.

But what was done to her before and after her murder will forever be criminal.

She was just a little girl.

And no one protected her.

Not her rich mother and father.

Not the many friends and family who claimed to love her.

And not the legal system which was supposed to diligently seek justice for her.

She might have been a white, rich, privileged child, but her abuse and murder were brutal. In a way, because of these, she became the poster child for all abused and murdered children.

That we, as a nation, failed her so miserably will always anger and disgust me.

I'll never accept it as justice. Never.

 

[KoldKase]

No they didn't. And that more than any other reason is why they didn't try. Don't even need DNA for it to be laughed out of court. Lou Smit versus ST. hahahahaha

Excuse me? Lou "Swear to God you didn't do it" Smit? "Blue arc of electricity" Smit? "Packing Peanut" Lou? "Oops, the paper bags belonged to LE" Lou?

Are you kidding me?

Yeah, you're pulling my leg now. Ha ha! Good one. :floorlaugh:

 

[Roy23]

One other thing: the truth can be very ugly. In this case, it's heartbreaking.

JonBenet was exploited and abused in so many ways, murdered, and then abandoned by her family at the very moment she was most vulnerable. I believe they did this because they wanted to protect themselves.

Maybe that's human. Maybe it's understandable as a human reaction, the instinct of self-preservation.

But what was done to her before and after her murder will forever be criminal.

She was just a little girl.

And no one protected her.

Not her rich mother and father.

Not the many friends and family who claimed to love her.

And not the legal system which was supposed to diligently seek justice for her.

She might have been a white, rich, privileged child, but her abuse and murder were brutal. In a way, because of these, she became the poster child for all abused and murdered children.

That we, as a nation, failed her so miserably will always anger and disgust me.

I'll never accept it as justice. Never.

I truly understand your sentiment for the most part. I have a young son myself. But I believe the day comes that you will also speak up for the Ramsey family.

Their torment still goes on to this day although I know you won't recognize that now. See you understand just how much LE screwed up. From the start. And that was from not containing the crime scene and allowing the crime scene to be contaminated, the autopsy to be contaminate.

In your same breath you criticize the Ramsey's for getting attorneys. But LE already had desecrated the crime scene. They had to be idiots for not listenening to their attorney's. The witch hunt was on.

You will see one day. And I bet you are a parent. I can read that from your posts. And you will reflect back and think if you were put in their shoes and finally it will hit you why they did what they did.

Just watch and see.

 

[BBB167893]

I can't help that you don't get it dude.

Nice to see you know your limitations!

Exonerating anyone by ML is a mistake. And coming from Police is even worse. It doesn't change the facts. This all has to do with whether Ramseys conspired a murder for hire. The DNA is different location are $%^& matches cynic. Matches. Matches. Do u frickin get it? Matches.

What are you gonna do with all those matches? Set yourself on fire?

 

[KoldKase]

I think much of this is true by the way. They got big problems and always had big problems. This is one of the reasons they went after the Ramsey's to begin with. But I think they got something important in CODIS, (yeah yeah KK that little ole skin cell set that I hang my hat on). And just like all politicians, when they get a match they will all run to the podium to take credit. And be damned with the prior thoughts of having their feelings hurt for doing such a crappy job in the beginning.

"...when they get a match...."

Tell me, please, exactly where you think they're going to make that match?

Do you actually believe that this perp did not know the Ramseys? You think the ransom note writer was able to hang out in the house for hours, abuse and murder a child while the parents slept, have a seat and write A PRACTICE RANSOM NOTE OR TWO OR THREE on Patsy's pad with her pen, in her handwriting, using the same LINGUISTICS and inside personal and professional references someone would have to be familiar with to fool every handwriting analyst who ever examined the note?

OH, AND THE CHILD ATE PINEAPPLE WITH HIM BEFORE HE MURDERED HER! Yeah, he had her eating at the table with him, then back to her room they went, never mind her family sleeping nearby, no worries. After all, someone was already sexually abusing her, so they wouldn't mind anyway, would they?

And for 15 years, the parents of the murdered child spent a fortune to cover up for this stranger, all while making themselves appear as guilty as sin by avoiding and lying to LE ad nauseam when they did give them interviews four months after the murder?

Did I mention the Ramseys knowingly withheld critical evidence from LE for five years--the "alleged" package of Bloomies?

Did I mention three YEARS after the murder Patsy couldn't pass a lie detector test until the fourth or fifth try, with HER OWN SELF-SPONSORED POLYGRAPHERS? And they'd already taken who knows how many for her lawyers before that, one can deduce from their refusal to answer that question in an interview, citing "privilege." Ha! THEIR privilege to waive, but la de dah.

Yeah, there's some child molester running around garroting children who did it so badly he completely screwed up and murdered JonBenet, after he changed his mind that he didn't really want to kidnap her after all...so many victims, so much time to hang out, you know...and decided to take her to the basement and finish her off after he'd bludgeoned her in her bedroom, but hey, why not leave the ransom note he so thoughtfully and diligently wrote in draft after draft, to get it just right, doncha' know?

And you, Roy, think that some day, some match to that DNA is going to hit and LE is going to be breaking their necks to take credit for...discovering some stranger's DNA doesn't tell them anything more than the clothing got contaminated at some point?

JonBenet's parents could have stopped ALL of this by simply going to the BPD and cooperating FROM DAY ONE.

And why wouldn't they? Excuses, excuses. Actions are key; and their action was to try to get out of town as fast as they could, keep their lawyers between them and LE, and obstruct the investigation.

You do know LE uses the Ramsey 911 call to train how to detect lies, right, Roy?

 

[BBB167893]

Quit confusing people with information back in the stone ages.

Oh, so giving people the facts is "confusing" them is it? Hate to tell you this, pilgrim, but if anyone's living in the past, it's you: USSR, circa 1960!

 

[BBB167893]

The problem is you have to be reasonable. And I know I am wasting my time.

You're a FINE one to talk, me boyo! Now I know how you plan for me to meet my doom: by annoying me into an aneurysm at my desk!

You should actually be a defense witness for the defense after they catch the intruder.

I'd pay to see that!

 

[BBB167893]

A careful examination of the totality of the evidence in the JonBenet case points to the Ramseys as being responsible for the murder of their child, there is no intruder.

Ooh, totality! Big words to use for this crowd!

 

[KoldKase]

I truly understand your sentiment for the most part. I have a young son myself. But I believe the day comes that you will also speak up for the Ramsey family.

Their torment still goes on to this day although I know you won't recognize that now. See you understand just how much LE screwed up. From the start. And that was from not containing the crime scene and allowing the crime scene to be contaminated, the autopsy to be contaminate.

In your same breath you criticize the Ramsey's for getting attorneys. But LE already had desecrated the crime scene. They had to be idiots for not listenening to their attorney's. The witch hunt was on.

You will see one day. And I bet you are a parent. I can read that from your posts. And you will reflect back and think if you were put in their shoes and finally it will hit you why they did what they did.

Just watch and see.

I'm also a grandparent.

And I hate to burst your bubble, but I've been researching this case for 15 years. I don't feel anything but horror looking at the Ramseys.

Make all the excuses you need to believe these people are somehow innocent, somehow victimized by LE if it makes you feel better.

The reality is that the Ramseys victimized so many people, I could be easily convinced they're descended from Vlad the Impaler.

If they hadn't hired and disbursed a small army of propagandists who went about publicly ruining the reputations and lives of professionals, friends, and strangers alike, anyone who stood in the way or served to bury the investigation into the murder of their child, I might at least feel sorry that they unwittingly dug the grave for their own daughter.

I've seen their lawyers work, and they are as wicked as the devil himself. The Ramseys made a deal with those devils to get out from under this crime and all the excuses in the world do not change that they ran from helping LE find the killer of JonBenet. It's my devotion as a parent that finds their actions so repulsive, I can only draw one conclusion why they'd do that: they're guilty.

You'll be waiting until hell freezes over, I'm afraid, if you think I'm ever going to feel any sympathy for any Ramsey other than JonBenet and Burke.

I do feel sorry for Burke, because he was just a child, yet he's very likely to be the one who will end up paying the highest price for his parents' unfit, criminal behavior.

 

[Roy23]

"JonBenet's parents could have stopped ALL of this by simply going to the BPD and cooperating FROM DAY ONE.

And why wouldn't they?"


Cooperating with Authorities running to the media, making book deals, and threatening them because they and they only had egg on their face.

You only have part of your story right anyhow. But yeah on the part you do that is exactly what I am saying happened. The Ramsey's are victims and RDI's like most of you are now part of the lynch mob.

 

[Roy23]

I'm also a grandparent.

And I hate to burst your bubble, but I've been researching this case for 15 years. I don't feel anything but horror looking at the Ramseys.

Make all the excuses you need to believe these people are somehow innocent, somehow victimized by LE if it makes you feel better.

The reality is that the Ramseys victimized so many people, I could be easily convinced they're descended from Vlad the Impaler.

If they hadn't hired and disbursed a small army of propagandists who went about publicly ruining the reputations and lives of professionals, friends, and strangers alike, anyone who stood in the way or served to bury the investigation into the murder of their child, I might at least feel sorry that they unwittingly dug the grave for their own daughter.

I've seen their lawyers work, and they are as wicked as the devil himself. The Ramseys made a deal with those devils to get out from under this crime and all the excuses in the world do not change that they ran from helping LE find the killer of JonBenet. It's my devotion as a parent that finds their actions so repulsive, I can only draw one conclusion why they'd do that: they're guilty.

You'll be waiting until hell freezes over, I'm afraid, if you think I'm ever going to feel any sympathy for any Ramsey other than JonBenet and Burke.

I do feel sorry for Burke, because he was just a child, yet he's very likely to be the one who will end up paying the highest price for his parents' unfit, criminal behavior.

I think you are wrong and I think you will change your thinking on it. I believe that KK. So Hell is gonna freeze over.

 

[BBB167893]

Agh KK, but you are the one with the problem. I know you can't see it and will never admit to it. This mountain of evidence you refer to is comedic.

People have gone away on a LOT less.

They didn't and still don't have enough to even indict a Ramsey. They cant source the information in the house to have it hold up. And you guys would have me think Aunt Pam was in on the conspiricy as well.

You don't have to believe that Aunt Pam was "in on it" for her to have done what she did.

As far as Patsy writing the note, that is also not proven. As a matter of fact, Michael couldn't even let the examiners that would say it was probable she wrote it to testify. There are standards that licensed examiners must have and these two did not. The other licensed examiners either stated she did not write it or they could not exclude her. In Court, they would have been murdered on this.

The moment they pulled out those comparison charts, it would have been slam the casket time.

The fibers I also laugh at because you are suggesting they match.

Patsy's story didn't help!

Let me say this about two corrupt DA's. I know you won't say that is far fetched.

I'm surprised anyone can say that it IS far-fetched! Do we REALLY have to go down the list with you?!

But remember I mentioned it before you suggest that the new DA is corrupt as well.

It would be more surprising to find a Boulder DA who ISN'T. We're not suggestiing this was some kind of fluke, Roy. The whole STATE is rotten.

The RDI case never put the ham in the sandwich and never will.

Would have been nice if someone had TRIED.

 

[cynic]

I think you are wrong and I think you will change your thinking on it. I believe that KK. So Hell is gonna freeze over.

KK won’t change her mind because she has spent 15 years researching the case, not 15 minutes.
She knows the evidence and where it points.

 

[BBB167893]

The Boulder DA’s office has a rich history of being scared to prosecute; the Midyette case and others illustrate that fact. Fear of “reasonable doubt” has prevented many cases from going to trial; it’s not necessarily a reflection on the amount of evidence.

He forgets that this is BOULDER. Plea-bargain capital of the planet.

 

[BBB167893]

“Based on the state of this evidence, no charges can be filed against anyone in this case at this time.” Stan Garnett

And the prime suspect being dead makes no difference in that regard?

 

[BBB167893]

Nope, that ain't it Cynic. It has got to do with a future defendant in this case having an attorney that is gonna go buck wild on Mary Lacy's decision. Hang in there cause sooner or later I am gonna bust you up on this like a red headed stepchild once the BPD starts to talk.

Where have you been the last 15 years? The police DID talk! One of 'em wrote a damn BOOK!

Nothing YOU serve up could EVER best one of us! (Provided you LAST that long!)

 

[cynic]

See you understand just how much LE screwed up. From the start. And that was from not containing the crime scene and allowing the crime scene to be contaminated, the autopsy to be contaminate.

Good to see that you admit that.
The autopsy was contaminated, and that contamination likely resulted in the much touted mystery DNA that you hang on like grim death.
As I posted previously, contamination at the morgue resulted in multiple matching DNA samples in the DeMocker case.
[ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=187565&postcount=22"]Forums For Justice - View Single Post - Problems with DNA[/ame]

The coroner in the JonBenet case admitted that he did not sterilize nail clippers between autopsies.
"When Meyer clipped the nails of each finger, no blood or tissue was found that would indicate a struggle. He used the same clippers for all the fingers, although doing so created an issue of cross-contamination. For optimal DNA purposes, separate and sterile clippers should have been used for each finger. Furthermore, we later learned that the coroner's office sometimes used the same clippers on different autopsy subjects."
Steve Thomas, "JonBenet, Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation" – Pg. 41

Also:

Bill Wise, former first assistant with the Boulder County District Attorney's Office, said that although DNA "absolutely could be one of the biggest things in the case," it could also be nothing.
Some of the DNA taken from the 6-year-old pageant queen's fingernails and underwear was "degraded," Wise said. He said the tool used to take samples wasn't clean.
"It had foreign DNA on it," he said.
http://www.dailycamera.com/archivesearch/ci_13061689

But I’m sure that you will continue to side with Lacy, and claim that there could be no innocent explanation for the DNA (despite the evidence pointing to the Ramseys.)