Ron's Incident With The Gun Spark Investigation was opened by DCF.

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  • #161
For those interested in the DCF issues in this case, below is a link to their(Florida's) policies/procedures manual.....Not that it would be of much help, as DCF rarely follows their own rules, policies, etc.; they do what they want to do when they want to do it..right or wrong imo. You may have to search around the site a bit to find what you want.

http://www.dcf.state.fl.us/publications/policies.shtml#familysafety
 
  • #162
Yeah, but why does Ron need to say something to get a reaction out of Tim, I mean seriously, what does he gain by doing that? Ronald Jr adores his Dad and whats sad is that Jr prob has seen Ron stick guns in his mouth all his life, that may be normal to that little boy, I mean do you even understand the repercussions that has on a young child? I mean even if his daddy is doing that kinda stuff for reactions out of people, thats really scary-

If someone had said/done this in my presence, of course I would have been horrified! But if I knew the specific circumstances, I would have understood the reason for this stupid action - knowing the pressure this person had been under and knowing that this person was acting in an immature way. We don't really know if he even knew Jr was in the room or if he was he just being a drama king for Tim Miller. We cannot assume that he does this in front of Jr all the time. I just wish that TM had seen right through this and acted like a father figure and told Ron to knock it off and grow up and not do such dumb kid stuff. And, to be aware when his child was in the room. Maybe he did - I sure hope so!

I respect the rights of normal people to own guns, and I think that most gun owners are responsible. But I also see many many young men who think they are something to show off. Unfortunately, to some, guns are a big boy's toy and not something to be responsible about. This problem is rampant across the entire country.
 
  • #163
Again, the lack of parenting in this case is mind boggling. We see 3 generations of terribly messed up people and one in the 4th generation is missing. So isn't all drug related issues. These folks have been dysfunctional for generations. How does any parent allow their 14 year old to "live with" the 16 year old boyfriend or vice versa? It's insane. How does anyone let a 24-25 year old man around their 16 year old daughter?

They all stink. So what? They can stink and still be victims of a horrendous crime.

Oh, sure TM is great. He does a lot for others who are missing children. True.

But, he causes too much controversy because he doesn't know to stay in his own lane and he is ready, willing and able to blab things to the media which are better left in the confidence of LE.
 
  • #164
Then presumably some here either were present, know exactly what happened, have insider info... or would consider rage, negligence, endangerment, an o.d. or retaliation scenario eg to be victimhood or victimization of the parents. Not everyone does... nor is everyone here prepared to rule out every single one of the above possibilities. It isn't the Smart's (eg) income or socio-economic status that's at issue when comparing the circumstances of children who go missing IMO.

:parrot:
 
  • #165
(bold mine) That said, then presumably you don't consider rage, or negligence, or endangerment on Ron's part, an overdose or retaliation scenario involving Ron in any way, as 'likely.' Some do. And these risk factors in Haleigh and Junior's lives are every bit the concern and business of anyone sleuthing the unsolved case of any missing child. JMO

:parrot:

No, I do not think this man killed his daughter. And if someone killed his daughter in "retaliation," that would be the first time I've heard of such a thing outside of a bad tv show. Where I live, people in the worst street gangs don't do things like that. People who kill or rape children are usually reviled by criminals involved in drugs or robbery. We can't hold Ron responsible for the acts of others.

So far as I know, when he left for work, his daughter was alive. There is no evidence that Haleigh was the object of Ron's rage. Surely Crystal would have raised that at the custody hearing if that were the case. We can only talk of negligence in hindsight. Haleigh was clean, fed and sheltered, getting regular medical care, and left in the care of someone old enough to babysit. I used to watch kids younger and older than Haleigh when I was 14. As I have said time and again, certainly Misty was not an ideal babysitter, given her history. But we still have absolutely no proof that she was the direct or indirect cause of Haleigh's disappearance. If someone came into that trailer and took that child, how is that Ron Cummings's fault? How would he be more "responsible" than Ed Smart, who hired a psychopathic sexual sadist and introduced him into his home environment, where he kidnapped and assaulted and imprisoned his daughter? We absolutely know that the Smart family introduced the kidnapper to their home; we do not yet know that Misty did. Again, I am only responding to the notion that Haleigh would have been safer with her mother--which is just a backdoor way of saying that Ron is responsible. We could say that EVERY abducted child might have been "safer" had they been taken by the courts or sent to live with grandma. As has been pointed out repeatedly, Crystal has had a problem with drugs herself and wasn't a very conscientious mother when pregnant with Junior. She seems almost unconscious on television, at least when I've seen her. But even if Crystal was June Cleaver or Ma Walton and had custody, if a predator had his eye on Haleigh, he could have taken her when she was just visiting her father. Are we going to call for the removal by the state of all the siblings of all the children who disappear? or of all the children living with an alcoholic or drug abuser--including those who are abusing prescription pain killers? Or is it just Ron Cummings who should lose his son? If he is arrested and we are presented with evidence that he has done the unspeakable, then the issue of custody is moot. I am still waiting for the first shred of evidence that he was involved.

In the end, the only person responsible for Haleigh's disappearance is the person who took her out of that trailer. That isn't to say that parents don't have terrible guilt when their children are abducted or killed or hurt in accidents--because what parent wouldn't say, "If only I had" or "If only I hadn't"?

And yes, if someone took Ron and Crystal's child out of her home, you betcha they are victims. And if Misty wasn't involved in any way, she was a victim too. By definition.
 
  • #166
Your question, how is this Ron's fault? Pittsburg, I am a parent, never, ever would I leave my children with someone I knew used drugs or alcohol. I wouldn't even leave my kids with someone who had a dog I considered maybe vicious. Ron had a responsibility for his children to see that they were as safe as possible when he was not there. He did not do that. He left them with someone he knew used drugs often and had questionable behavior. He couldn't control what happened when he was not there, but he could control the probability of what happened by being a concerned, mature parent who put his children before anything else. He just didn't do that. That is a point in these threads that baffles me. Ron was ultimately the caregiver, he made the choices of whom his children spent their time with. He made the understanding of what type of care they would receive. When he could not reach Misty and those children by phone, he should have been on his way home, since he had absolute knowledge of Misty's behavior. Does this make sense to you? I don't know another way to phrase it.
 
  • #167
Your question, how is this Ron's fault? Pittsburg, I am a parent, never, ever would I leave my children with someone I knew used drugs or alcohol. I wouldn't even leave my kids with someone who had a dog I considered maybe vicious. Ron had a responsibility for his children to see that they were as safe as possible when he was not there. He did not do that. He left them with someone he knew used drugs often and had questionable behavior. He couldn't control what happened when he was not there, but he could control the probability of what happened by being a concerned, mature parent who put his children before anything else. He just didn't do that. That is a point in these threads that baffles me. Ron was ultimately the caregiver, he made the choices of whom his children spent their time with. He made the understanding of what type of care they would receive. When he could not reach Misty and those children by phone, he should have been on his way home, since he had absolute knowledge of Misty's behavior. Does this make sense to you? I don't know another way to phrase it.

What you are saying is that since Ron made a bad judgement he is completely responsible for what happened to Haleigh, right?

Since he may some bad choices.

So if someone decides to become a prostitute (bad choice however they are still human) and they get murdered by a serial killer who kills prostitutes then the prostitute is responsible for herself getting murdered.

That's what you are saying.

I obviously don't agree with it.

I'm sure if Ron had any inkling of what was happening he would have left right in the middle of work and went home. Most people don't expect to come home to find their little girl missing and no one knows where she went.

I'm not saying he's completely innocent, however i don't think he killed Haleigh or is directly responsible for her disappearance.

What your saying is because Ron did..then a whole chain of events.
People make the same decisions as Ron all the time and we aren't hearing about their children going missing.

No one is perfect.
 
  • #168
I'm not claiming perfection for anyone, but the very basic tenets of child safety by the one that should observe them was thrown out the window. I'm saying that Ron because of his failure contributed to whatever befell Haleigh. So don't say everyone should be perfect cause no one is. That is not what I am saying at all. I am saying with common thought and care I think whatever happened could have been avoided. Then, you have to consider the craziness that came afterward. I can't give Ron a free pass, somethings going on. I'm only relying on simple logic that I think most parents operate by.
 
  • #169
Your question, how is this Ron's fault? Pittsburg, I am a parent, never, ever would I leave my children with someone I knew used drugs or alcohol. I wouldn't even leave my kids with someone who had a dog I considered maybe vicious. Ron had a responsibility for his children to see that they were as safe as possible when he was not there. He did not do that. He left them with someone he knew used drugs often and had questionable behavior. He couldn't control what happened when he was not there, but he could control the probability of what happened by being a concerned, mature parent who put his children before anything else. He just didn't do that. That is a point in these threads that baffles me. Ron was ultimately the caregiver, he made the choices of whom his children spent their time with. He made the understanding of what type of care they would receive. When he could not reach Misty and those children by phone, he should have been on his way home, since he had absolute knowledge of Misty's behavior. Does this make sense to you? I don't know another way to phrase it.
bbm, we don't know if Misty used drugs, "used drugs olften" or if Ron knew this.
 
  • #170
What you are saying is that since Ron made a bad judgement he is completely responsible for what happened to Haleigh, right?

Since he may some bad choices.

Completely to me means 100% so I must ask. What percentage of responsibility do you prescribe to Ron for his bad choices? 80%, 50%, 0%?

So if someone decides to become a prostitute (bad choice however they are still human) and they get murdered by a serial killer who kills prostitutes then the prostitute is responsible for herself getting murdered.

That's what you are saying.

I obviously don't agree with it.

Obviously you don't and that's ok and if someone chooses to be a prostitute and subjects themselves to several known and unknown men during a week they will put themselves at more risk of crime, wouldn't ya think?

I'm sure if Ron had any inkling of what was happening he would have left right in the middle of work and went home. Most people don't expect to come home to find their little girl missing and no one knows where she went.

I'm not saying he's completely innocent, however i don't think he killed Haleigh or is directly responsible for her disappearance.

How about indirectly responsible?

What your saying is because Ron did..then a whole chain of events.
People make the same decisions as Ron all the time and we aren't hearing about their children going missing.

No one is perfect.

Ron's child's is missing, if she hadn't have gone missing we wouldn't even be having this discussion. I think LE has said MITK, his former wife, the one he messaged she was being taken into confidence by her new friend after he told her he wanted a divorce <supposedly>
 
  • #171
No, I do not think this man killed his daughter. And if someone killed his daughter in "retaliation," that would be the first time I've heard of such a thing outside of a bad tv show. Where I live, people in the worst street gangs don't do things like that. People who kill or rape children are usually reviled by criminals involved in drugs or robbery. We can't hold Ron responsible for the acts of others.

So far as I know, when he left for work, his daughter was alive. There is no evidence that Haleigh was the object of Ron's rage. Surely Crystal would have raised that at the custody hearing if that were the case. We can only talk of negligence in hindsight. Haleigh was clean, fed and sheltered, getting regular medical care, and left in the care of someone old enough to babysit. I used to watch kids younger and older than Haleigh when I was 14. As I have said time and again, certainly Misty was not an ideal babysitter, given her history. But we still have absolutely no proof that she was the direct or indirect cause of Haleigh's disappearance. If someone came into that trailer and took that child, how is that Ron Cummings's fault? How would he be more "responsible" than Ed Smart, who hired a psychopathic sexual sadist and introduced him into his home environment, where he kidnapped and assaulted and imprisoned his daughter? We absolutely know that the Smart family introduced the kidnapper to their home; we do not yet know that Misty did. Again, I am only responding to the notion that Haleigh would have been safer with her mother--which is just a backdoor way of saying that Ron is responsible. We could say that EVERY abducted child might have been "safer" had they been taken by the courts or sent to live with grandma. As has been pointed out repeatedly, Crystal has had a problem with drugs herself and wasn't a very conscientious mother when pregnant with Junior. She seems almost unconscious on television, at least when I've seen her. But even if Crystal was June Cleaver or Ma Walton and had custody, if a predator had his eye on Haleigh, he could have taken her when she was just visiting her father. Are we going to call for the removal by the state of all the siblings of all the children who disappear? or of all the children living with an alcoholic or drug abuser--including those who are abusing prescription pain killers? Or is it just Ron Cummings who should lose his son? If he is arrested and we are presented with evidence that he has done the unspeakable, then the issue of custody is moot. I am still waiting for the first shred of evidence that he was involved.

In the end, the only person responsible for Haleigh's disappearance is the person who took her out of that trailer. That isn't to say that parents don't have terrible guilt when their children are abducted or killed or hurt in accidents--because what parent wouldn't say, "If only I had" or "If only I hadn't"?

And yes, if someone took Ron and Crystal's child out of her home, you betcha they are victims. And if Misty wasn't involved in any way, she was a victim too. By definition.
Thanks was not enough! Great post! Logical and well presented!

What you are saying is that since Ron made a bad judgement he is completely responsible for what happened to Haleigh, right?

Since he may some bad choices.

So if someone decides to become a prostitute (bad choice however they are still human) and they get murdered by a serial killer who kills prostitutes then the prostitute is responsible for herself getting murdered.

That's what you are saying.

I obviously don't agree with it.

I'm sure if Ron had any inkling of what was happening he would have left right in the middle of work and went home. Most people don't expect to come home to find their little girl missing and no one knows where she went.

I'm not saying he's completely innocent, however i don't think he killed Haleigh or is directly responsible for her disappearance.

What your saying is because Ron did..then a whole chain of events.
People make the same decisions as Ron all the time and we aren't hearing about their children going missing.

No one is perfect.
Exactly, ITA! It's like saying someone wore a provocative dress so it was her fault she got raped. Ridiculous.
 
  • #172
Exactly, ITA! It's like saying someone wore a provocative dress so it was her fault she got raped. Ridiculous.

I think the example used was a prostitute, when the dress comes off after cash is exchanged.
 
  • #173
I think the example used was a prostitute, when the dress comes off after cash is exchanged.
I gave another example. But even in that example it is not her fault if she gets murdered.
 
  • #174
I gave another example. But even in that example it is not her fault if she gets murdered.

I'm really not assigning fault to anyone but a criminal who murders or rapes a prostitute or anyone but the criminal themself. What I am asking is do you all really think that prostitutes by choice of their profession expose themselves to more risk?
 
  • #175
I'm really not assigning fault to anyone but a criminal who murders or rapes a prostitute or anyone but the criminal themself. What I am asking is do you all really think that prostitutes by choice of their profession expose themselves to more risk?
Yes, I do agree prostitues are exposed to more risky situations than the average woman. But I don't think it is anyone's fault that they get murdered by a lunatic, serial killer, SO, etc. If she tried to kill someone in order to rob them and was shot and killed herself then yes, I would agree that was her fault she got killed. :)
 
  • #176
Yes, I do agree prostitues are exposed to more risky situations than the average woman. But I don't think it is anyone's fault that they get murdered by a lunatic, serial killer, SO, etc. If she tried to kill someone in order to rob them and was shot and killed herself then yes, I would agree that was her fault she got killed. :)

I'm just saying she may not be at fault but she would still be dead. When LE investigates her murder the first thing they will look at are the contacts she had and her lifestyle.
 
  • #177
bbm, we don't know if Misty used drugs, "used drugs olften" or if Ron knew this.

Do you think Misty used drugs in the past or present? Do you think Ron knows anything about Misty's drug use?
 
  • #178
When looking at this case, weighing the overwhelming risk factors that the children lived in must be considered. Most parents leave their children with babysitters, teenagers. Most parents leave them only for a few hours at best. Most parents do not assign a babysitter to be "with those kids 24/7, I was like a mother to them." Most parents realize that there are risks involved when parents are not attentive to their children. Most parents do not have drugs, guns, or questionable sexual relationships around their children. Most parents do not surround themselves with people known to be drug users, repeatedly.

all of these things and more were Haleigh and Jr's risk factors of something going very very bad. Given as many people insist, that Ronald was the primary caregiver of the children and that Crystal couldn't be bothered, we can assign responsibility 70/30 for both of them. Crystal should definitely have stepped up and demanded more protection for her children than a teenager. She should have filed with the court when she discovered how old Misty really was (but I have my doubts she ever knew before all this went down but she should have made it her business to find out), she should have known a lot of things about her children that she didn't. She'll be eaten up with that for the rest of her life.

But Ronald was the instigator, the one who put those children into the risks. And I do hold him accountable for the choices he made for his children. One of them is missing and making excuses for him won't do a darn thing other than pretend that what he was doing wasn't putting his children at risk.

He did.
 
  • #179
I'm just saying she may not be at fault but she would still be dead. When LE investigates her murder the first thing they will look at are the contacts she had and her lifestyle.
People are killed everyday that aren't prostitutes, they are all still dead. Yes, that is how they will start investigating to find out who did it, they do that with any foul play murder investigation. And her profession/lifestyle is not going to lessen the charge or murder.
 
  • #180
People are killed everyday that aren't prostitutes, they are all still dead. Yes, that is how they will start investigating to find out who did it, they do that with any foul play murder investigation. And her profession/lifestyle is not going to lessen the charge or murder.

you are right, it does not lessen the charge of murder. But would her vocation have put her in the sights of someone more likely to commit murder?
 
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