Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #11

[JennieM]

Zelensky to meet King Charles, BBC understands​

King Charles III will meet Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky tomorrow, the BBC understands.​

Zelensky tells BBC Ukraine 'ready to sign' minerals deal with US

The Ukrainian president's comments to Laura Kuenssberg came after he failed to sign the deal at the White House on Friday.

www.bbc.co.uk

14m ago16.24 GMT
King Charles is expected to talk to president Zelensky at his Sandringham estate on Sunday amid concerns over trans-Atlantic diplomatic tensions, The Sun newspaper is reporting.

‘You have full backing across the UK’: Zelenskyy leaves Downing Street after meeting with Starmer – as it happened

Ukrainian president has held talks with PM Keir Starmer ahead of defence summit with European leaders tomorrow. This blog is now closed.

www.theguardian.com

 

[Legally Bland]

Well the deals off and it looks like the US it's going to let Zelensky move forward with his war. He doesn't want peace. He wants all his land returned, back to 1996. He wants all frozen access turned over to Ukraine. He wants US military troops on the ground to protect him or fight to take his land back. All funded by the US taxpayer.

The US has chosen not to enter war with Russia. The policy has not changed. Zelenskyy wasn't able to pressure the previous administrations to enter his war but we did help fund it.

It would take Congressional approval for the US to enter war. The President does not have the authority. He can ask Congress, like Bush did after 911. None of the administrations have ask permission to enter this war.

What has changed .... The unlimited flow of funds to Ukraine. It doesn't bother me what other countries think of our president or our business practices. The hurtful things that are being said, by those we thought were our partners, will affect our relationships long into the future.

Moo...

I have no idea why you thought that was relevant to what I posted. Ukraine isn't asking for a handout. They came up with a plan to give the US rights to their mineral wealth in exchange for security guarantees. Trump wants the mineral rights in exchange for zilch.

Russia is at war with all the West, and I think they have already won over a lot of people unfortunately . If the roles were reversed I'd love to know which parts of the US you'd be willing to cede in exchange for a phony peace.

 

[snarast]

My late father, a long term structural civil engineer at NASA that worked on the Apollo lunar lander moon shot space program used to always say: “empty barrels make the most noise”.

How that phrase, which I heard for well near 50 years still echos so prophetically IMO. And in particular after the IMO horrid display of what was seen yesterday. On the national stage, in full view. In the people of USA’s White House. SMH. MOO

The only good news is that Zelensky kept a straight face, didn’t seem as outraged as he could have been. What a frightful display of bullying he endured. Gracefully, not caring about the strange jabs at his attire.

Even though Vance was the bad cop, I must say it was really uncouth of Trump to jump on Zelensky for him basically saying that the ocean(s) separating the US from Russia comes in handy. Ooo what an insult….It’s one of the most distinguishing geographic features of the US.

Who could argue with that? Leave it to the president.

 

[Simply Southern]

NATO speaks....Sides with the US

NATO chief issues warning to Zelensky after car crash Trump talks.

NATO chief Mark Rutte has said he told Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky that he needs to find a way to restore his relationship with President Donald Trump after Friday's White House clash.

'It is important that President Zelensky finds a way to restore his relationship with the American President and with the senior American leadership team,' Rutte told the BBC on Saturday, commenting on a call he had with Zelensky on Friday.

He described the meeting at the White House as 'unfortunate'.

Rutte's dire warning to the war-time president comes as Zelensky duked it out with Trump and Vice President JD Vance in the Oval Office over the conditions of a possible ceasefire with Russia.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Perhaps there is good reason to reflect back on how IIUC then Vice President Theodore (Teddy) Roosevelt spoke eloquently and wisely on September 2, 1901 at the 1901 Minnesota State Fair. Part of his legacy and message on ‘diplomacy’.

ABC 5 News KSTP Eyewitness News excerpt entitled ‘So Minnesota: Teddy Roosevelt's 'Speak softly and carry a big stick' Minnesota State Fair speech’:

Apologies if this has already been posted. This is a fast-moving thread and I am far behind. MOO

 

[Rolypolyoly]

If we were flat broke I'm sure we would. If we wanted to continue the war we'd have no choice.
The agreement it's not to support the war. The agreement is to have funding to rebuild his war torn country and to try to bring in new business of which he will receive 50% to use in any way he chooses.

Moo

What is the point in rebuilding his war torn country if he has no guarantee that Putin won't just roll his tanks and bombs back in and raze it to the ground again?

Why do people think it is acceptable to ask Ukraine to just roll over and play dead?

What happens when Putin wins and gets away scot free? Which country should we let him have next? What about when he decides he wants yours? Will you let him take it because he threatens nuclear war? Or do you think that would never happen because your president is his friend and ally?

He is not Putins friend he is his puppet, one that will be put firmly back in his box once he's served his purpose!

JMO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Don't forget who is the big BIG winner here.....
I will be sick with all the attempts to change the narrative about Ukraine, to his base...
I swear that most Americans will always remember the truth.



Michael Weiss
@michaeldweiss
Increasingly obvious they invited him to Washington to humiliate him. This is theatre for the benefit of their base and of course a suddenly very happy man in Moscow.

404 - Not Found

theins.ru

Michael is an expert on Russia...


Recently he posted this below, and I just had an overwhelming sadness.... ... America will destroy Zelensky now. And the big P may, literally, kill him.
I will be sick with all the attempts to change the narrative about Ukraine, to his base...
I swear that most Americans will always remember the truth.

Michael Weiss
@michaeldweiss
I’m not sentimental by nature, but my God. What a country. What a people.

 

[Lilibet]

It’s crystal clear that Trump admires Putin, wants to be a dictator like Putin, and wants Putin’s approval. He is a Russian asset. The whole shocking display yesterday by Trump and Vance was for Putin. Trump has dragged this country over to Russia’s side, opposing its former allies and NATO.

Because Trump has no grasp of history, he is oblivious to the fact that YOU CANNOT TRUST RUSSIA. Those of us who are old enough to have lived through the Cold War know this, or should. Trump is my age, so he certainly has no excuse. To add to my credibility, I spent four years at the University of California majoring in political science with a specialty in the Soviet Union, giving me extra knowledge that Russia is not to be trusted. So why is Trump ignoring history and and cozying up to Russia? For the flattery and ego boost? Or something more like being allied with a “strong man” dictator? It’s clear that Trump cannot be trusted.

Any agreement to end the invasion of Ukraine MUST include solid security. There must also be security for Poland and the Baltics because that’s where Putin would go next after he builds up his military capacity. Trump is not concerned with security. He just wants to make a deal, no matter how it turns out for Ukraine.

JMO MOO ETC.

 

[JennieM]

The only good news is that Zelensky kept a straight face, didn’t seem as outraged as he could have been. What a frightful display of bullying he endured. Gracefully, not caring about the strange jabs at his attire.

Even though Vance was the bad cop, I must say it was really uncouth of Trump to jump on Zelensky for him basically saying that the ocean(s) separating the US from Russia comes in handy. Ooo what an insult….It’s one of the most distinguishing geographic features of the US.

Who could argue with that? Leave it to the president.

Vance telling him he does propaganda tours in his warn-torn country and Trump mocking him saying “ceasefire… ceasefire”. Most people would punch them.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

The only good news is that Zelensky kept a straight face, didn’t seem as outraged as he could have been. What a frightful display of bullying he endured. Gracefully, not caring about the strange jabs at his attire.

Even though Vance was the bad cop, I must say it was really uncouth of Trump to jump on Zelensky for him basically saying that the ocean(s) separating the US from Russia comes in handy. Ooo what an insult….It’s one of the most distinguishing geographic features of the US.

Who could argue with that? Leave it to the president.

Thank you @snarast ….. and respectfully, I can agree, except with the very last sentence. MOO

 

[snarast]

What is the point in rebuilding his war torn country if he has no guarantee that Putin won't just roll his tanks and bombs back in and raze it to the ground again?

Why do people think it is acceptable to ask Ukraine to just roll over and play dead?

What happens when Putin wins and gets away scot free? Which country should we let him have next? What about when he decides he wants yours? Will you let him take it because he threatens nuclear war? Or do you think that would never happen because your president is his friend and ally?

He is not Putins friend he is his puppet, one that will be put firmly back in his box once he's served his purpose!

JMO

Zelensky’s arguments couldn’t have been more succinct.

They were basically picking on him for not looking, behaving and talking like an American politician.

What’s next? Kiss the boot of shiny shiny leather?

 

[Simply Southern]

What is the point in rebuilding his war torn country if he has no guarantee that Putin won't just roll his tanks and bombs back in and raze it to the ground again?

Why do people think it is acceptable to ask Ukraine to just roll over and play dead?

What happens when Putin wins and gets away scot free? Which country should we let him have next? What about when he decides he wants yours? Will you let him take it because he threatens nuclear war? Or do you think that would never happen because your president is his friend and ally?

He is not Putins friend he is his puppet, one that will be put firmly back in his box once he's served his purpose!

JMO

When your neighbor is your enemy, there are no guarantees. Best outcome is to try to get along with them and keep the peace. The only other outcome is to completely overthrow the Russian government. That's not going to happen. Putin has partners. Russia's partners have strong military capabilities, China, North Korea. He's brought in North Korea troops that are now fighting. Trying to overthrow Putin is 100% guaranteed to a world war.

NATO has spoken, telling Zelensky to fix this.Zelensky needs to stand down with his rhetoric.

I think we'll know where the European country stand in the next 72 hours.
Moo

 

[branmuffin]

It’s crystal clear that Trump admires Putin, wants to be a dictator like Putin, and wants Putin’s approval. He is a Russian asset. The whole shocking display yesterday by Trump and Vance was for Putin. Trump has dragged this country over to Russia’s side, opposing its former allies and NATO.

Because Trump has no grasp of history, he is oblivious to the fact that YOU CANNOT TRUST RUSSIA. Those of us who are old enough to have lived through the Cold War know this, or should. Trump is my age, so he certainly has no excuse. To add to my credibility, I spent four years at the University of California majoring in political science with a specialty in the Soviet Union, giving me extra knowledge that Russia is not to be trusted. So why is Trump ignoring history and and cozying up to Russia? For the flattery and ego boost? Or something more like being allied with a “strong man” dictator? It’s clear that Trump cannot be trusted.

Any agreement to end the invasion of Ukraine MUST include solid security. There must also be security for Poland and the Baltics because that’s where Putin would go next after he builds up his military capacity. Trump is not concerned with security. He just wants to make a deal, no matter how it turns out for Ukraine.

JMO MOO ETC.

I think the reason this 'negotiation' was to be filmed live was because Trump was so certain that Zelensky would capitulate to the pressure that he wanted the fame, the glory and wanted Putin to know he solidified the deal he and Putin had hammered out. So that's why the Tass news people got 'overlooked'. When Zelinsky refused to sign any kind of deal with assurances that ending the war would end Putin's attempt to try again, that's when Trump and Vance attacked him, like schoolyard bullies. "Give us your lunch money" level of spite and immaturity. So what was supposed to be a victory enjoyed by Putin and Trump in real time has become an sound bite that will live on long after permanently cementing America's devolution into a pandering appeaser for Putin.

 

[JennieM]

‘A bigger victory for Putin than any military battle’: Russia gleeful after Trump-Zelenskyy clash​

Putin stays silent but Russian politicians and media outlets crow with delight after the ambush of Ukraine’s leader

‘A bigger victory for Putin than any military battle’: Russia gleeful after Trump-Zelenskyy clash

Putin stays silent but Russian politicians and media outlets crow with delight after the ambush of Ukraine’s leader

www.theguardian.com

 

[JennieM]

We will meet with King Charles, Zelensky's spokesman says

As we've just reported Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is due to meet King Charles during his visit to the UK.

Earlier, his spokesman Sergiy Nykyforov told AFP: "We are in London." He added that Zelensky would meet Starmer at 17:15 GMT on Saturday and then King Charles III and a group of European allies on Sunday.

Zelensky tells BBC Ukraine 'ready to sign' minerals deal with US

The Ukrainian president's comments to Laura Kuenssberg came after he failed to sign the deal at the White House on Friday.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[snarast]

When your neighbor is your enemy, there are no guarantees. Best outcome is to try to get along with them and keep the peace. The only other outcome is to completely overthrow the Russian government. That's not going to happen. Putin has partners. Russia's partners have strong military capabilities, China, North Korea. He's brought in North Korea troops that are now fighting. Trying to overthrow Putin is 100% guaranteed to a world war.

Sadly, that might be true. I don’t like it. This is going to be a bumpy ride.

 

[Warwick1991]

It’s crystal clear that Trump admires Putin, wants to be a dictator like Putin, and wants Putin’s approval. He is a Russian asset. The whole shocking display yesterday by Trump and Vance was for Putin. Trump has dragged this country over to Russia’s side, opposing its former allies and NATO.

Because Trump has no grasp of history, he is oblivious to the fact that YOU CANNOT TRUST RUSSIA. Those of us who are old enough to have lived through the Cold War know this, or should. Trump is my age, so he certainly has no excuse. To add to my credibility, I spent four years at the University of California majoring in political science with a specialty in the Soviet Union, giving me extra knowledge that Russia is not to be trusted. So why is Trump ignoring history and and cozying up to Russia? For the flattery and ego boost? Or something more like being allied with a “strong man” dictator? It’s clear that Trump cannot be trusted.

Any agreement to end the invasion of Ukraine MUST include solid security. There must also be security for Poland and the Baltics because that’s where Putin would go next after he builds up his military capacity. Trump is not concerned with security. He just wants to make a deal, no matter how it turns out for Ukraine.

JMO MOO ETC.

Russia has been at war with the West since the Bolshevik revolution. Even before, during the reign of Czars, there was disdain for Western countries and parliamentary rule. In the US and Europe, embassies and trade organizations served as espionage fronts in the 1920s. Some of those espionage fronts worked to overthrow and destabilize Western governments. Others worked to establish spy networks in Western countries, such as the Cambridge ring, among many others.

Russia sees itself as a permanent adversary of the US and Europe, and this goes back to the early 1920s, regardless of who is in power. Their main objective now, IMO, is to retake the former Soviet republics that are now independent, and to retake the Eastern bloc nations seized after WWII along with the Baltic countries. No negotiations that maintain the independence of Ukraine will be successful without military force. JMO

 

[Cedars]

I think the reason this 'negotiation' was to be filmed live was because Trump was so certain that the Zelensky would capitulate to the pressure that he wanted the fame, the glory and wanted Putin to know he solidified the deal he and Putin had hammered out. So that's why the Tass news people got 'overlooked'. When Zelinsky refused to sign any kind of deal with assurances that ending the war would end Putin's attempt to try again, that's when Trump and Vance attacked him, like schoolyard bullies. "Give us your lunch money" level of spite and immaturity. So what was supposed to be a victory enjoyed by Putin and Trump in real time has become an sound bite that will live on long after permanently cementing America's devolution into a pandering appeaser for Putin.

Apparently the press 'meet and greet' is usually just a preliminary 5 minute photo op with feel good vibes, then the teams go behind closed doors for true negotiations - where inflammatory words may be said that the diplomats can smooth over.

Instead, Trump kept it going, basking in the press attention, but increasingly getting baited by press questions.

I wrote just a few days ago, the press love to needle Trump with cheeky questions, and Trump - and now Vance - rise to the bait with their emotions triggered.

Macron/Starmer didn't discuss the issues in a room full of journalists.

Did Trump/Vance intend for this to be played out in public, or was Trump just basking in what he imagined was his moment of glory?

Did he believe the minerals deal was already signed and Zelensky was a 'supplicant' as some Magist somewhere claimed?

Whatever is going on, I don't think Trump is clever enough or has enough foresight to cope with master maniputors like Putin and the other dictators. I think Trump is being played by master players, and Zelensky was trying to warn him.

 

[Simply Southern]

Today bring new light and perspective.

Trump-Zelensky meeting: Ukraine's president due at No 10 for talks with Starmer in wake of White House showdown - latest

The meeting comes as the BBC understands Ukraine's president will meet the King tomorrow.

www.bbc.com

The extraordinary scenes from the White House on Friday sparked reaction right across the globe.

Here's a look at the latest reaction from some international leaders and politicians:

Germany's foreign minister, Annalena Baerbock, says the "unspeakable" row between Trump and Zelensky has "underlined that a new age of infamy has begun". In a televised statement she adds: "Sadly, this was not a bad dream, but a heavy reality."

Norway's Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Store says his government will ask parliament to increase its economic support to Ukraine. It is "crucial", he says, that the US contributes with Europe to a "lasting peace".

Prime Minister of the Czech Republic Petr Fiala says Europe "must take care of its own security and future. No one else will do it for us". He adds: "Europe is facing a historical test."

Slovakia's Prime Minister Robert Fico -a vocal critic of the European Union's support for Kyiv in the war - reiterated his country would not support Ukraine either militarily or financially to continue the war against Russia. Ukraine, he said, "will never be strong enough to negotiate from a position of military strength".

Poland's President Andrzej Duda says Zelensky should "get back to the negotiation table" adding he "can see no other power in the world than the US that could stop Russian aggression on Ukraine".



Slovakia's Prime Minister Robert Fico -a vocal critic of the European Union's support for Kyiv in the war - reiterated his country would not support Ukraine either militarily or financially to continue the war against Russia. Ukraine, he said, "will never be strong enough to negotiate from a position of military strength".

Poland's President Andrzej Duda says Zelensky should "get back to the negotiation table" adding he "can see no other power in the world than the US that could stop Russian aggression on Ukraine".

 

[JennieM]

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Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #11