Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #11

[Marysmith]

Nope.

Then who are you referring to? Thank you.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I think the United States having a 50% interest in future mineral extraction from Ukrainian territory would make it clear to Russia that the US would not allow them to take control of that valuable land and deny us our property.

There's your security for Ukraine. JMO.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Whatever happened to doing the right thing, just for the sake of it.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Whatever happened to doing the right thing, just for the sake of it.

Trying to end massive death and destruction is doing the right thing in my opinion.

 

[mickey2942]

Not always.

Zelenskyy can certainly reject the mineral deal and ask other nations for help if he wants to continue the war instead of seeking a negotiated peace. JMO.

Agreed. The United States is not a blank check for every country that wants weapons, and support for a war. It seems like that is what has been happening for decades. Ukraine is just the most recent country.

There needs to be an end to this.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Agreed. The United States is not a blank check for every country that wants weapons, and support for a war. It seems like that is what has been happening for decades. Ukraine is just the most recent country.

There needs to be an end to this.

Yes and well said.

I'm praying that the end to this war is near.

 

[Cedars]

I think the United States having a 50% interest in future mineral extraction from Ukrainian territory would make it clear to Russia that the US would not allow them to take control of that valuable land and deny us our property.

There's your security for Ukraine.

I don't think that would guarantee security for Ukraine. The US wouldn't go to war with Russia over mining operations far away. They'd abandon Ukraine if things got dicey, just like Afganistan (where the US invested trillions).

 

[branmuffin]

So it seems to me there are some Americans that believe no matter who commits an invasion of a sovereign nation as long as the US gets to divvy up the land for their own personal use that's a good deal. When WW1 ended the Treaty of Versailles forced Germany to give up not only the land they had taken from other countries, they forced them to give up 10% of their own land. The Allies denied Germany, the original belligerent, a seat at the table to negotiate terms; they only allowed them to take part after they'd signed the Treaty. It makes sense that the aggressor is the loser, not the other way around. On Websleuths there are posters who believe in punitive justice where the aggressor loses their life, that there's not even a scintilla of negotiation: you take a life, you lose yours. Yet in this instance justice becomes very malleable because there can be a benefit by going easy on the aggressor and throwing the victim to the wolves. It's very unsettling to me. More so, because as a Canadian I'm starting to feel a target on our backs, too, because of our natural resources.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I don't think that would guarantee security for Ukraine. The US wouldn't go to war with Russia over mining operations far away. They'd abandon Ukraine if things got dicey, just like Afganistan (where the US invested trillions).

So there's no chance that the US will have any kind of security agreement with Ukraine?

If that's true maybe Zelenskyy needs to rethink his position on this.

Volodymyr Zelenskyy says he told Donald Trump's Ukraine envoy his country needs a "reliable and clear system of security guarantees" before a peace deal can be struck with Russia.

Ukraine needs 'reliable and clear' security guarantees to end war, Zelenskyy tells Trump envoy

Ukraine's president says his country requires a peace deal "that ensures this war will never return and that Russians will never again destroy lives".

news.sky.com

 

[SouthAussie]

How America’s Aid to Ukraine Actually Works
July 16, 2024

Only a small percentage of the overall aid package takes the form of cash transfers to Kyiv; the vast majority goes right back into the U.S. economy.

"The vast majority of U.S. Ukraine-related funding does not go directly to Ukraine; it stays in the U.S. economy, subsidizing the production of weapons in at least 31 states and 71 cities.

While Ukraine gets most of the aid in the form of old American weapons pulled from U.S. reserves, it’s American workers at American companies that make new weapons to replenish them.

America’s military-industrial complex also restocks inventories of its NATO allies who similarly help Ukraine.

Not only does this revitalize the communities around large manufacturing plants in mostly Republican states, but it has created so many high-level jobs that some places are struggling to find enough qualified workers.

“We have right now more people working in the history of our state than we have at any point,” Mike Preston, Arkansas’s secretary of commerce told Politico back in September 2022. “And there are 70,000 open jobs in our state,” he added."
.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Only a small percentage of the overall aid package takes the form of cash transfers to Kyiv; the vast majority goes right back into the U.S. economy.

"The vast majority of U.S. Ukraine-related funding does not go directly to Ukraine; it stays in the U.S. economy, subsidizing the production of weapons in at least 31 states and 71 cities.

While Ukraine gets most of the aid in the form of old American weapons pulled from U.S. reserves, it’s American workers at American companies that make new weapons to replenish them.

America’s military-industrial complex also restocks inventories of its NATO allies who similarly help Ukraine.

Not only does this revitalize the communities around large manufacturing plants in mostly Republican states, but it has created so many high-level jobs that some places are struggling to find enough qualified workers.

“We have right now more people working in the history of our state than we have at any point,” Mike Preston, Arkansas’s secretary of commerce told Politico back in September 2022. “And there are 70,000 open jobs in our state,” he added."

How America’s Aid to Ukraine Actually Works
July 16, 2024

I think that needs to stop.

American taxpayers should see that money go to defense spending for American military preparedness to insure the safety of Americans and our NATO allies.

Use it to buy more F15EX multi role fighters that we need to counter China. Or more B21 bombers to insure our long range bomber fleet stays viable. Or pay for the new Sentinel nuclear ballistic missile. Or new Virginia class attack subs. Or Columbia class ballistic subs. Or expedite the B52J upgrade program. Or to just keep up our stockpiles of smart weapons of missile's, bombs and also artillery shells.

I could go on and on with the critical defense needs of the US that could use that money. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

One thing I know for sure is the strategy that has been used for the last 3 years has not come close to ending this war.

Supplying Ukraine with limited amounts of up to date modern weapons with restrictions on their use with the rest being obsolete isn't working. The reason why this was done is because of the fear of equipping Ukraine so well they would be able to overcome Russia and that would cause them to launch nuclear strikes.

How widespread those nuclear strikes would be is anyone's guess. Even a very limited use of nukes would be horrific.

So this is why this war is into year three. And why it needs to stop through a negotiated peace agreement. JMO.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

There’s also a third problem: the type of assistance. The last six aid packages, all made possible by the supplemental appropriations act, included many shells and air defense munitions but not enough long-range capabilities.

Intentionally limiting the offensive capability of Ukraine which has prolonged this war. JMO.

The majority of weapons and munitions the U.S. government has sent to Ukraine are pulled from America’s own stockpiles using presidential drawdowns, since this program allows for the quickest delivery.

So this means that US defensive capabilities have been reduced because of this pulling of weapons from our inventory and having to wait for them to be replaced.

I wonder how long that takes to do? Probably a very long time. JMO.

The package also doesn’t specifically pledge to provide the longest-range missiles the U.S. has; these are needed if Ukraine is to destroy Russian weapons caches and bases deep inside Russia that are being used to attack Ukrainian cities.

Can't have that. Ukraine may be able to push Russia back if that happens. Good grief. JMO.

How America’s Aid to Ukraine Actually Works

Only a small percentage of the overall aid package takes the form of cash transfers to Kyiv; the vast majority goes right back into the U.S. economy.

www.lawfaremedia.org

 

[Niner]

Ummm...

Russia is the largest in Europe.
Ukraine comes second.

Just saying

Definitely the largest country in Europe,
both in terms of area and population,
is the Russian Federation.

Other larger areas of European countries are Ukraine, France, Spain, Sweden.

Personally I do not consider Russia part of Europe....

 

[Cedars]

One thing I know for sure is the strategy that has been used for the last 3 years has not come close to ending this war.

The strategy from the beginning was to attack Russia's economy, not their territory.

To force them to give up the invasion because it costs them too much economically. Freezing Russian assets in foreign banks, applying sanctions.

The hope is Russia will be suffering from that enough, by now, and will comie to the table wanting negotiation.around that.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The strategy from the beginning was to attack Russia's economy, not their territory.

To force them to give up the invasion because it costs them too much economically. Freezing Russian assets in foreign banks, applying sanctions.

The hope is Russia will be suffering from that enough, by now, and will comie to the table wanting negotiation.around that.

That didn't work either. It's been 3 years of those sanctions and it hasn't stopped Russia.

Looks like Russia has just started to talk to the US about ending this war. Hopefully Ukraine will join in soon.

The Russian economy has developed some level of resilience to Western sanctions. While export embargoes have affected ordinary Russian people, this has not led to regime change in Russia. Elites have been able to circumvent restrictions on goods through an increase in ‘back door’ or indirect exports through central Asian states. For example, Kazakhstan has seen a significant increase in trade with Russia: from January to October 2022, Kazakh companies exported more than $575 million of electronics goods to Russia – an 18 % increase from the same period in 2021.

Sanctions effectiveness: what lessons three years into the war on Ukraine? - Economics Observatory

Western countries imposed extensive sanctions on Russia after the invasion of Ukraine in February 2022. But the measures were unilateral and piecemeal – and while they have been effective in disrupting the Russian economy, evasion and ‘trade deflection’ through third countries limits their impact.

www.economicsobservatory.com

 

[Cedars]

That didn't work either. It's been 3 years of those sanctions and it hasn't stopped Russia.

Unfortunately, sanctions against dictatorships don't work so well, since the citizens can't complain.

 

[Niner]

Unfortunately, sanctions against dictatorships don't work so well, since the citizens can't complain.

especially this from the article above.

While export embargoes have affected ordinary Russian people, this has not led to regime change in Russia.

The elitists don't care... they have ways of getting what they need...

 

[Amonet]

<modsnip>

I do, as an American with a Canadian born father, hope that President Trump is successful in helping to stop the carnage that is taking place in Ukraine. JMO.

Trump isn't the one causing the war. Neither did Ukraine start the war. The only one who could ever stop it was and is Putin.

 

[Amonet]

I think that needs to stop.

American taxpayers should see that money go to defense spending for American military preparedness to insure the safety of Americans and our NATO allies.

Use it to buy more F15EX multi role fighters that we need to counter China. Or more B21 bombers to insure our long range bomber fleet stays viable. Or pay for the new Sentinel nuclear ballistic missile. Or new Virginia class attack subs. Or Columbia class ballistic subs. Or expedite the B52J upgrade program. Or to just keep up our stockpiles of smart weapons of missile's, bombs and also artillery shells.

I could go on and on with the critical defense needs of the US that could use that money. JMO.

Countries can be allies without being in NATO.