Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #11

[Simply Southern]

Reuters says it stands by its reporting, despite Musk's denial. Reuters received the information from three different sources. I'd say Reuters obviously takes these as good and credible sources - there is no wavering in their reporting.

Poland actually pays for Ukraine's Starlink connections, and Poland's deputy prime minister said on Saturday that it will continue to do so.

https://www.reuters.com/business/us-could-cut-ukraines-access-starlink-internet-services-over-minerals-say-2025-02-22/

I'm not putting stock in, unidenifed individuals that were briefed. Haven't heard Zelenskyy confirm or any of his cabinet. They have no problem speaking out against the agreement. I say show receipts.

Poland is paying and said they were not at risk, as well as Elon Musk. I believe the Polish President and Elon public statements over hearsay everyday.

Moo...

 

[Dotta]

I'm not putting stock in, unidenifed individuals that were briefed. Haven't heard Zelenskyy confirm or any of his cabinet. They have no problem speaking out against the agreement. I say show receipts.

Poland is paying and said they were not at risk, as well as Elon Musk. I believe the Polish President and Elon public statements over hearsay everyday.

Moo...

From my country's MSM

"Deputy Prime Minister on Starlinks for Ukraine. ​

Poland bought Starlinks, ​

which gave to Ukraine.​

We pay and will continue to pay a subscription fee for satellite internet for Ukraine -
emphasized on Saturday in a post on X platform,
Deputy Prime Minister, Minister of Digital Affairs.

'We pay and will continue to pay a subscription fee for satellite internet for Ukraine.
I cannot imagine that someone could decide to terminate a business agreement for a commercial service,
to which Poland is a party'
- he noted.

Starlink sets are mobile routers
to provide access to satellite internet,
produced by one of the companies of American billionaire Elon Musk.

About 85 percent from 20 thousand Terminals operating in Ukraine have been entirely or partially financed from external sources, including:
US, Great Britain and Poland.

Poland also finances the maintenance of these systems on an ongoing basis."

Wicepremier o Starlinkach dla Ukrainy. "Płacimy i dalej będziemy płacić"

Polska kupiła Starlinki, które przekazała Ukrainie. Płacimy i dalej będziemy płacić abonament za internet satelitarny dla Ukrainy - podkreślił w sobotę we wpisie na platformie X wicepremier, minister cyfryzacji Krzysztof Gawkowski.

www.money.pl

 

[Simply Southern]

I agree that the war is senseless. Russia should never have invaded and they should be punished for that.

I also don't agree that Trump misspoke. He said that Ukraine could have ended the war 3 year ago. Well that was when they were invaded. Should they have just lied down and given in to the invader?
Would you expect the USA to do that if they were invaded? Should the US have just given up after Pearl Harbor?

I believe in democratic and sovereign nations. We should all stand up for them. Is there someone here who doesn't agree with that?

More sanctions ....

"Volodymyr Zelenskyy on Saturday praised the UK for showing “leadership” on the war with Russia after the British prime minister, Keir Starmer, pledged his “ironclad support” for Kyiv in a phone call.

Starmer and the EU chief Ursula von der Leyen discussed “the need to secure a just and enduring peace in Ukraine” in a call on Saturday

London will unveil a significant package of sanctions against Russia on Monday, according to the UK foreign secretary, David Lammy, who said it was “time to turn the screws on Putin’s Russia".

Volodymyr Zelenskyy was “not ready” to sign a deal that would give the US preferential access to his country’s critical minerals, a Ukrainian source told AFP."

Ukraine war briefing: Volodymyr Zelenskyy praises Keir Starmer for pledge of ‘ironclad support’

Does that means UK and Europe are going to stop buying gas from Russia? Doesn't this defeat the purpose of sanctions. Sanctions has not hurt Russia, they continue to sell to China, Iran, and it appears the UK.

EU & UK gas imports from Russia by route weekly 2025 | Statista

In the week 5, 2025, the European Union (EU) and the United Kingdom (UK) received 342 million cubic meters of natural gas from Russia via the pipeline TurkStream.

www.statista.com

Seems 2024 was a record

European imports of liquefied natural gas from Russia at ‘record levels’

Rystad Energy releases data days after Ukraine stopped flows of Russian gas through its pipelines

www.theguardian.com

 

[Amonet]

I'm not putting stock in, unidenifed individuals that were briefed. Haven't heard Zelenskyy confirm or any of his cabinet. They have no problem speaking out against the agreement. I say show receipts.

Poland is paying and said they were not at risk, as well as Elon Musk. I believe the Polish President and Elon public statements over hearsay everyday.

Moo...

Reuters doesn't post 'hearsay'. They're a respectable news organisation, they're not one of the papers or tv channels that has a clear political bias or likes pot stirring for views and clicks.

 

[Amonet]

More sanctions ....

Does that means UK and Europe are going to stop buying gas from Russia? Doesn't this defeat the purpose of sanctions. Sanctions has not hurt Russia, they continue to sell to China, Iran, and it appears the UK.

EU & UK gas imports from Russia by route weekly 2025 | Statista

In the week 5, 2025, the European Union (EU) and the United Kingdom (UK) received 342 million cubic meters of natural gas from Russia via the pipeline TurkStream.

www.statista.com

Seems 2024 was a record

European imports of liquefied natural gas from Russia at ‘record levels’

Rystad Energy releases data days after Ukraine stopped flows of Russian gas through its pipelines

www.theguardian.com

I think it might be useful to see which countries are importing what and through which routes. There are EU countries (Hungary?) that are still very friendly with Putin. Some countries will find it more difficult than others to replace the Russian gas.

The US should also have been benefitting from increased purchases of LNG due to the war.

I hate waste so I'd hope that the end of the war will mean agreements can be made so that the gas and oil can be moved via the shorter and more efficient routes rather than all the circuitous routes and not-so-honest middlemen.

 

[Simply Southern]

Reuters doesn't post 'hearsay'. They're a respectable news organisation, they're not one of the papers or tv channels that has a clear political bias or likes pot stirring for views and clicks.

I certainly respect your opinion. Recently, several reputable news organizations have been involved in settling lawsuits for untrue statements. (CBS/CNN). I'm not so trusting anymore.

So are you saying, the President of Poland is not being truthful? I would think, the President of Poland would have receipts to prove and back up his statement, before making a profound announcement to the world. Poland is the NATO member, has provided tremendous support. They took in thousands of refugees, women, children, the elderly, wounded soldiers. They have been in 100% support for you Ukraine.

Moo ...

 

[Simply Southern]

I think that needs to stop.

American taxpayers should see that money go to defense spending for American military preparedness to insure the safety of Americans and our NATO allies.

Use it to buy more F15EX multi role fighters that we need to counter China. Or more B21 bombers to insure our long range bomber fleet stays viable. Or pay for the new Sentinel nuclear ballistic missile. Or new Virginia class attack subs. Or Columbia class ballistic subs. Or expedite the B52J upgrade program. Or to just keep up our stockpiles of smart weapons of missile's, bombs and also artillery shells.

I could go on and on with the critical defense needs of the US that could use that money. JMO.

I'm hoping for funding for the "Iron Dome". Israel has been very successful in taking out missiles in mid air, saving hundreds of lives. Anything we can do to save lives. Lives can not be replaced.
Moo

 

[Simply Southern]

I think it might be useful to see which countries are importing what and through which routes. There are EU countries (Hungary?) that are still very friendly with Putin. Some countries will find it more difficult than others to replace the Russian gas.

The US should also have been benefitting from increased purchases of LNG due to the war.

I hate waste so I'd hope that the end of the war will mean agreements can be made so that the gas and oil can be moved via the shorter and more efficient routes rather than all the circuitous routes and not-so-honest middlemen.

It would be a blessing for everyone, if Ukraine could get gas production restored. Instant income, jobs for citizens.

It seems many are still relying on Russian gas. I understand the why..... country's purchasing gas from Russia have to consider their citizens, the limit on cost that citizens can afford to pay and access. Those countries are putting citizens needs first. I certainly don't condemn them. Just making a point sanctions are not working.
Moo

 

[Dotta]

This is interesting...

" 'Trump wants to get the Ukraine problem over with as soon as possible.
It's not a key issue for him.

From his point of view,
peace in the Middle East is more important.

That's where he wants to conclude a major peace treaty',

assessed the analyst from the German Association for Foreign Policy (DGAP).

'The condition is to close the Ukraine issue.

The goal is a 'deal',
hence the willingness to make concessions at Ukraine's expense,
after which the Americans intend to withdraw,
and the Europeans are to take their place',
he explains.

'President Donald Trump wants to bring a ceasefire in Ukraine as soon as possible,
even at the cost of concessions to the Kremlin,
in order to focus on his main goal – peace in the Middle East.

Europe is currently unable to create forces capable of deterring Russia',
he assessed."

Trump chce mieć Ukrainę jak najszybciej z głowy

Prezydent Donald Trump chce jak najszybciej, nawet za cenę ustępstw wobec Kremla, doprowadzić do zawieszenia broni w Ukrainie, aby zająć się głównym celem – pokojem na Bliskim Wschodzie. Europa na razie nie jest w stanie stworzyć sił zdolnych do odstraszania Rosji - ocenił.

www-bankier-pl.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Niner]

I think it might be useful to see which countries are importing what and through which routes. There are EU countries (Hungary?) that are still very friendly with Putin. Some countries will find it more difficult than others to replace the Russian gas.

snipped by me...

Latvia quit getting gas from russia January, 2023 - and just last week we connect our electricity to the EU grid!

 

[Simply Southern]

@Dotta I do believe the middle east is a greater world threat. The Houthis (Yeaman) are trying to control the Red Sea. They have seized and attacked entire shipping vessels, trying to shoot NATO aircraft down, to prevent trade./commerce. Also, we have Hamas and Iran.

The American people will never forget 911. Attack on US soil.
Moo

 

[Dotta]

Latvia quit getting gas from russia January, 2023 - and just last week we connect our electricity to the EU grid!

Poland too.

When in the morning of April 27, 2022,
Russia turned off the gas tap in the Jamał gas pipeline,
it became clear that we were well prepared for this scenario.

And in 2023,
we were celebrating a complete departure from the import of raw materials from Russia.

Gas in Poland comes from the United States, Norway,
as well as from domestic mining.

Poland was one of the first countries in the Union which gave up the supply of this raw material with pipelines.

With the expiry on December 31, 2022,
the so called Jamalski's contract,
which was a long term gas agreement with Gazprom,
we stopped pulling the gas from the east.

 

[Amonet]

I certainly respect your opinion. Recently, several reputable news organizations have been involved in settling lawsuits for untrue statements. (CBS/CNN). I'm not so trusting anymore.

So are you saying, the President of Poland is not being truthful? I would think, the President of Poland would have receipts to prove and back up his statement, before making a profound announcement to the world. Poland is the NATO member, has provided tremendous support. They took in thousands of refugees, women, children, the elderly, wounded soldiers. They have been in 100% support for you Ukraine.

Moo ...

To my knowledge Reuters gathers news and then feeds it out to places like CBS, CNN and numerous others, Then the receiving party takes the info and presents it in their own way, which may include putting spin on it. Newswire reports don't usually have too much bias in them. If they've got something wrong, then I do believe it's most likely that they tried to go to normally trustworthy sources and just sent it out on the wire too soon before it could be corrected.

I do have more trust in them than in the CNN and Fox News type receivers of the info.

I haven't and am not saying anything about the president of Poland. Not a subject I know about.

 

[Amonet]

It would be a blessing for everyone, if Ukraine could get gas production restored. Instant income, jobs for citizens.

It seems many are still relying on Russian gas. I understand the why..... country's purchasing gas from Russia have to consider their citizens, the limit on cost that citizens can afford to pay and access. Those countries are putting citizens needs first. I certainly don't condemn them. Just making a point sanctions are not working.
Moo

I'm not aware of Ukraine being a major gas producer. Russian gas is (was) transported through their country and Russia would pay them transport fees.

 

[Amonet]

As for lying, I tend to try to ask first if someone might be mistaken, misinformed, or lied to before I decide they were purposely lying. Or strong evidence that they were lying or making things up.

That's just how I tend to be.

 

[Simply Southern]

I'm not aware of Ukraine being a major gas producer. Russian gas is (was) transported through their country and Russia would pay them transport fees.

Natural gas in Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ukraine extracts about 20 billion cubic meters of fossil gas each year, and since 2022 this has almost met demand.[1] Ukraine has been estimated to possess natural gas reserves of over 670 billion cubic meters (in 2022),[2] and gas is an important part of energy in Ukraine. In 2021, Ukraine produced 19.8 billion cubic meters (bcm or Gm3) of natural gas. To satisfy domestic demand of 27.3 bcm that year, Ukraine relied on gas imports (2.6 bcm) and withdrawal from underground storage (4.9 bcm). Winter demand can reach 150 ...

 

[Amonet]

Natural gas in Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ukraine extracts about 20 billion cubic meters of fossil gas each year, and since 2022 this has almost met demand.[1] Ukraine has been estimated to possess natural gas reserves of over 670 billion cubic meters (in 2022),[2] and gas is an important part of energy in Ukraine. In 2021, Ukraine produced 19.8 billion cubic meters (bcm or Gm3) of natural gas. To satisfy domestic demand of 27.3 bcm that year, Ukraine relied on gas imports (2.6 bcm) and withdrawal from underground storage (4.9 bcm). Winter demand can reach 150 ...

Thanks for the link and info.

So up to now they haven't been a major exporter as it seems they've been producing less than national demand. Perhaps that could change in future.

I don't know how much that reserve estimate compares to other countries or exactly where the reserves are located or how easy they'd be to extract. Isn't some of it in the Black Sea near Crimea and off the part where Odessa is? The parts Russia has been taking and trying to take....but I stand to be corrected on whether or not there's suspected or proven gas or anything else there.

 

[mickey2942]

I think that needs to stop.

American taxpayers should see that money go to defense spending for American military preparedness to insure the safety of Americans and our NATO allies.

Use it to buy more F15EX multi role fighters that we need to counter China. Or more B21 bombers to insure our long range bomber fleet stays viable. Or pay for the new Sentinel nuclear ballistic missile. Or new Virginia class attack subs. Or Columbia class ballistic subs. Or expedite the B52J upgrade program. Or to just keep up our stockpiles of smart weapons of missile's, bombs and also artillery shells.

I could go on and on with the critical defense needs of the US that could use that money. JMO.

Forget defense, our crumbling infrastructure is what needs an overhaul. We have major bridges that collapse, or are coming close to needing to be replaced. Water systems in many large cities are a joke.

All people do now, is react to infrastructure issues, rather than proactively work on replacement.

Ukraines infrastructure has been devastated by this war, is the United States going to fix everything there first?! Where does it end?

 

[Cedars]

Ukraines infrastructure has been devastated by this war, is the United States going to fix everything there first?! Where does it end?

No. Europe is more involved in Ukraine than the US - they have provided more funds and have closer ties and Ukraine would be a boon to the EU. There are international organizations such as the IMF, World Bank, very involved in loans, etc. to Ukraine. China has relations with Ukraine.

IMO, the US news media only ever focus on the US, so Americans don't realize there's a lot more going on.

However, Americans have wanted to be in control since 1945. No one is allowed to do much unless the US approves (eg, Biden and now Trump refuse to involve China). The US claimed to have a world agenda, and Russia was a big part of that.

If the US decides to withdraw from Europe, I think it would be better if Trump did not try to 'solve the war' by caving in to Russia and then walking away, "look what I won" by giving Putin what he wants and demanding ownership over Ukraine (probably just to try to keep it out of the hands of China). Just leaving a ticking time bomb behind.

 

[Dotta]

" 'I will not sign'.​

Zelensky reveals details of the agreement with the US.​

It is already known what provision in the agreement between Ukraine and the US regarding Ukrainian deposits
led to the objection of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

As he revealed,
it is not only about security guarantees,
but also about rates.

'Ukraine received $100 billion in aid from the United States - not $500, not $350, not $250 (…) -
and we are very grateful for that.

And the cost of this war today is $320 billion:
- $120 billion from Ukraine,
- $100 billion from Europe,
- plus other partners, such as Japan, about $15 billion.
And $100 billion - the United States of America.
This is the economics of this tragedy' -
Zelensky said.

'If the United States,
our friendly partner,
votes in Congress to grant us $ 50 billion in aid,
we will be obliged to return $ 100 billion.

I have a question that no one can answer honestly.

When the United States sells weapons to Israel, Qatar, the Emirates, Saudi Arabia,
do they ask them for 100% subsidies?'-
he asked.

He then firmly emphasized that
he 'will not sign something
that 10 generations of Ukrainians will later pay for'."

"Nie podpiszę". Zełenski stanowczo odpowiada USA

Prezydent Ukrainy Wołodymyr Zełenski stwierdził, że w negocjowanej obecnie umowie o współpracy z USA, które chcą dostęp…

wiadomosci.wp.pl