Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #11

[SouthAussie]

And have us all in world war III within minutes.

We can't let a dictator bully the world due to our fear of WW3.
That is like continually giving a schoolyard bully your lunch money, and then going hungry, because you don't want to be beat up.
It takes other people standing up for the victim, supporting them, to suppress a bully.
Which is why NATO and other countries (like Australia and NZ) are standing with Ukraine.

 

[Dotta]

We can't let a dictator bully the world due to our fear of WW3.
That is like continually giving a schoolyard bully your lunch money, and then going hungry, because you don't want to be beat up.
It takes other people standing up for the victim, supporting them, to suppress a bully.
Which is why NATO and other countries (like Australia and NZ) are standing with Ukraine.

Yep.
Give bully a finger
And soon your whole hand will be taken!

JMO

 

[Simply Southern]

I dunno.... This article is the Daily Mail after all. ha ha ha... but really.. it is funny....shaking in fear.

This part is NOT funny.
Instead, the contract was reportedly more exploitative than the conditions imposed on Germany after World War I, expecting Ukraine to relinquish huge quantities of oil, gas and mineral resources as a payment for US aid already provided.

Well, it appears to be another lie coming from the Zelenskyy group. I so hope the US doesn't have to deal with him and this deal doesn't go through. He knows he can't afford to continue without US dollars. European countries will contribute but again the Lion's share it's going to be from the US. I think the message is real clear from the president, delivered to NATO by Secretary of Defense Hegseth, Vice Presidency Vance at the Munich Security Council and Secretary of State Rubio at the Transatlantic Quint Foreign Ministers this past week ...the US will no longer fund Ukraine directly and the war must end.
I also think Zelenskyy is highly insulted he's been excluded from negotiations with Russia.
Moo

Scott Bessent fires back at reports of 'trembling' at Zelensky meeting

Secretary of Treasury Scott Bessent pushed back against reports he was 'trembling' after his meeting with President Voldymyr Zelensky four weeks ago, calling it 'fake news.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sources close to Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent have denied claims he was 'trembling' after a recent meeting with President Voldymyr Zelensky, dismissing it as 'fake news.'

The Financial Times claimed Bessent was 'visibly flustered' after meeting the Ukrainian president with 'his hands trembling.'

 

[SouthAussie]

...the US will no longer fund Ukraine directly and the war must end.

I think it has been shown, over the last few days, that other countries are stepping up as much as they can. More weapons, more money, more sanctions, more support.

If the current US govt wants out, so be it. It is a shame, but we can't let that worry us too much. The cost for Ukraine and Europe would be too high if we abandon them for a dictator.

imo

 

[Dotta]

"UN Security Council ​

adopts US resolution. ​

Does not call Russia an aggressor.​

The UN Security Council
has adopted an American draft resolution on the war in Ukraine
that does not designate Russia as an aggressor
but refers instead to the 'Russian-Ukrainian war'.

The document calls for a permanent end to the conflict
but does not condemn the Russian invasion.

Ten out of 15 countries voted in favour of the resolution, while
five European countries abstained.

The three-paragraph resolution
deplores the 'tragic loss of life' in the conflict
and emphasizes that the primary purpose of the UN is to maintain international peace.

The US interim representative to the UN, Dorothy Camille Shea, emphasized that the document
is not a 'peace agreement'
but a 'pathway to peace'."

RB ONZ przyjęła amerykańską rezolucję. Nie nazywa Rosji agresorem

Rada Bezpieczeństwa ONZ przyjęła amerykański projekt rezolucji dotyczący wojny w Ukrainie, który nie określa Rosji jako agresora, lecz odnosi się do "wojny rosyjsko-ukraińskiej". Dokument wzywa do trwałego...

wiadomosci.wp.pl

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I just do not see what stops Putin from renewed aggression at any time- even if there is a supposed "end to the war" and he signs an agreement. I see him as a 'that was yesterday, today is a new day' kind of guy. IMO.

I remind everyone to renew acquaintance with the Munich Agreement of 1938.

Bullies who lie all the time, never live up to agreements, ever.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I think it has been shown, over the last few days, that other countries are stepping up as much as they can. More weapons, more money, more sanctions, more support.

If the current US govt wants out, so be it. It is a shame, but we can't let that worry us too much. The cost for Ukraine and Europe would be too high if we abandon them for a dictator.

imo

@SouthAussie.... from your perspective as a distant observer, ... does your part of the world think that trump might take back his new statements that Zelensky was the aggressor in the war of 3 years. I just wonder how others, in other parts of the world see these words.

 

[Cedars]

"UN Security Council ​

adopts US resolution. ​

Does not call Russia an aggressor.​

View attachment 566196

The UN Security Council
has adopted an American draft resolution on the war in Ukraine
that does not designate Russia as an aggressor
but refers instead to the 'Russian-Ukrainian war'.

The document calls for a permanent end to the conflict
but does not condemn the Russian invasion.

Ten out of 15 countries voted in favour of the resolution, while
five European countries abstained.

The three-paragraph resolution
deplores the 'tragic loss of life' in the conflict
and emphasizes that the primary purpose of the UN is to maintain international peace.

The US interim representative to the UN, Dorothy Camille Shea, emphasized that the document
is not a 'peace agreement'
but a 'pathway to peace'."

RB ONZ przyjęła amerykańską rezolucję. Nie nazywa Rosji agresorem

Rada Bezpieczeństwa ONZ przyjęła amerykański projekt rezolucji dotyczący wojny w Ukrainie, który nie określa Rosji jako agresora, lecz odnosi się do "wojny rosyjsko-ukraińskiej". Dokument wzywa do trwałego...

wiadomosci.wp.pl

However, the resolution in the General Assembly, condeming Russia for the invasion, passed yesterday with a vote of 93 to 5.

However Russia vetoed it at the smaller security council.

"Russia vetoed a UN Security Council resolution on Friday that would have demanded that Moscow immediately stop its attack on Ukraine and withdraw all troops"

Russia blocks Security Council action on Ukraine

Russia vetoed a UN Security Council resolution on Friday that would have demanded that Moscow immediately stop its attack on Ukraine and withdraw all troops, a move several Council members said was deplorable, but inevitable.

news.un.org

(Not like anyone was surprised, btw.)

 

[Simply Southern]

We can't let a dictator bully the world due to our fear of WW3.
That is like continually giving a schoolyard bully your lunch money, and then going hungry, because you don't want to be beat up.
It takes other people standing up for the victim, supporting them, to suppress a bully.
Which is why NATO and other countries (like Australia and NZ) are standing with Ukraine.

Australia is not a NATO nation and does not have nuclear weapons. They have donated approximately 1.5 billion.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

@SouthAussie.... from your perspective as a distant observer, ... does your part of the world think that trump might take back his new statements that Zelensky was the aggressor in the war of 3 years. I just wonder how others, in other parts of the world see these words.

Well, it appears to be another lie coming from the Zelenskyy group. I so hope the US doesn't have to deal with him and this deal doesn't go through. He knows he can't afford to continue without US dollars. European countries will contribute but again the Lion's share it's going to be from the US. I think the message is real clear from the president, delivered to NATO by Secretary of Defense Hegseth, Vice Presidency Vance at the Munich Security Council and Secretary of State Rubio at the Transatlantic Quint Foreign Ministers this past week ...the US will no longer fund Ukraine directly and the war must end.
I also think Zelenskyy is highly insulted he's been excluded from negotiations with Russia.
Moo

Scott Bessent fires back at reports of 'trembling' at Zelensky meeting

Secretary of Treasury Scott Bessent pushed back against reports he was 'trembling' after his meeting with President Voldymyr Zelensky four weeks ago, calling it 'fake news.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sources close to Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent have denied claims he was 'trembling' after a recent meeting with President Voldymyr Zelensky, dismissing it as 'fake news.'

The Financial Times claimed Bessent was 'visibly flustered' after meeting the Ukrainian president with 'his hands trembling.'

But this deal is awful. Any body of folks accepting this deal are bullies.
This offer is just blackmail. Who would want that.

 

[SouthAussie]

Australia is not a NATO nation and does not have nuclear weapons. They have donated approximately 1.5 billion.

And? That means that we can't support Ukraine?

I am pretty sure that Australia and NZ will follow wherever the UK goes.

ETA: Just so others know, Australia and NZ cannot be part of NATO as we are in the Southern hemisphere, and NATO is the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

 

[SouthAussie]

@SouthAussie.... from your perspective as a distant observer, ... does your part of the world think that trump might take back his new statements that Zelensky was the aggressor in the war of 3 years. I just wonder how others, in other parts of the world see these words.

Even our opposition leader (the one who is not in power) scorned those words. It is unusual for Dutton to speak out against DJT.

'Got it wrong': Peter Dutton blasts Donald Trump over Ukraine, Putin

'It was an act of aggression, and it was unprovoked.'

www.canberratimes.com.au

 

[branmuffin]

Well, it appears to be another lie coming from the Zelenskyy group. I so hope the US doesn't have to deal with him and this deal doesn't go through. He knows he can't afford to continue without US dollars. European countries will contribute but again the Lion's share it's going to be from the US. I think the message is real clear from the president, delivered to NATO by Secretary of Defense Hegseth, Vice Presidency Vance at the Munich Security Council and Secretary of State Rubio at the Transatlantic Quint Foreign Ministers this past week ...the US will no longer fund Ukraine directly and the war must end.
I also think Zelenskyy is highly insulted he's been excluded from negotiations with Russia.
Moo

Scott Bessent fires back at reports of 'trembling' at Zelensky meeting

Secretary of Treasury Scott Bessent pushed back against reports he was 'trembling' after his meeting with President Voldymyr Zelensky four weeks ago, calling it 'fake news.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sources close to Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent have denied claims he was 'trembling' after a recent meeting with President Voldymyr Zelensky, dismissing it as 'fake news.'

The Financial Times claimed Bessent was 'visibly flustered' after meeting the Ukrainian president with 'his hands trembling.'

I would think any situation where one of the main players were excluded from negotiations would be incredibly insulted by not having a place at the table. Not only insulted but seeing the exclusion as move to access and implement plans that have nothing for the player who suffered the most grievous injuries. Anyone who thinks Zelensky doesn't deserve a seat at the table is lacking in basic principles of fairness and honor. That, more than the blowhard rhetoric of Donald Trump, is the underpinning of a country in decline.

 

[Dotta]

"New Draft Agreement Between Ukraine and the US. ​

Guarantees for Kiev on the Table.​

The US and Ukraine are said to be close to concluding a new agreement on investment and security.

US President Donald Trump confirmed that he will meet with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

According to the draft document obtained by Bloomberg,
the United States will commit to supporting a 'free, sovereign, and secure Ukraine' striving for 'lasting peace'.

The agreement is to strengthen the strategic partnership between the two countries,
and one of its key elements will be investment cooperation.

Significantly,
the US also dropped its earlier demand that Kiev transfer $500 billion from raw material extraction
as a form of repayment for the aid.

Here are the details of the new contract​

The two sides plan to create a joint reconstruction fund, financed 50-50.
The fund is to include revenues from Ukraine's state-owned enterprises and raw materials extraction,
as well as capital investment from the United States.

The project indicates that the fund will be directed to investments in strategic sectors of the Ukrainian economy, such as the mining industry and port development.

Additionally,
the project assumes that in the future the United States will be able to recover some of the funds that it invested in the defense and reconstruction of Ukraine,
striving to restore its pre-conflict economic potential.

According to the draft agreement,
Ukraine is to commit to transferring
50 percent of its revenues from the extraction of natural resources –
such as gas, oil and minerals – to the fund.

After deducting operating costs,
half of the profits from these sectors will go to the joint investment budget.

The funds are to be used to rebuild infrastructure destroyed by the war,
develop the economy,
and secure the country's financial independence."

Much more in the link

Nowy projekt umowy Ukrainy z USA. Na stole gwarancje dla Kijowa

USA i Ukraina mają być bliskie zawarcia nowego porozumienia dotyczącego inwestycji i bezpieczeństwa. Według projektu Waszyngton ma zadeklarować wsparcie dla "wolnej, suwerennej i bezpiecznej" Ukrainy. Prezydent...

www.money.pl

 

[Simply Southern]

But this deal is awful. Any body of folks accepting this deal are bullies.
This offer is just blackmail. Who would want that.

They certainly don't have to partner with the US on mineral rights. Have you heard any other country offered to help my guarantee security for free or for a fee? Nope, they all said they stand with Ukraine but no one's offering them a chance at financial recovery and security.

He doesn't have to take the deal, he can keep fighting til there is nothing left. The US will support him through NATO but not through any additional funding. NATOs pretty busy, protecting NATO members, in the Red Sea. It's at hot bed of terrorist, attacking shipping vessels, taking some hostage and have blown up few. They tried to shoot down fighter jets over the weekend. A much higher priority than Ukraine. I don't think the US is threatened by Russia. It's the European nations that fear Russia.

Moo

 

[Cedars]

I would think any situation where one of the main players were excluded from negotiations would be incredibly insulted by not having a place at the table. Not only insulted but seeing the exclusion as move to access and implement plans that have nothing for the player who suffered the most grievous injuries. Anyone who thinks Zelensky doesn't deserve a seat at the table is lacking in basic principles of fairness and honor. That, more than the blowhard rhetoric of Donald Trump, is the underpinning of a country in decline.

No one can 'end a war' except the two sides involved. That's just the reality of all wars, everywhere, from the beginning of time.

Two ways:
- One side surrenders
- Both sides negotiate peace.

There is no third option: a foreign country ends it? Not possible, unless the foreign country invades both countries and takes them over.

Unfortunately, Trump made the ridiculous claim that he could end it, and now he's painted himself into a corner.

He can facilitate negotiation, at best. But showing his bias doesn't make him a good facilitator.

 

[Simply Southern]

I would think any situation where one of the main players were excluded from negotiations would be incredibly insulted by not having a place at the table. Not only insulted but seeing the exclusion as move to access and implement plans that have nothing for the player who suffered the most grievous injuries. Anyone who thinks Zelensky doesn't deserve a seat at the table is lacking in basic principles of fairness and honor. That, more than the blowhard rhetoric of Donald Trump, is the underpinning of a country in decline.

It's standard. In the Israeli-Gaza war. Qatar is the intermediary. Israel and Gaza only communicate through Qatar. Nations don't meet and have a sit down. They each pass their wants through the intermediary. That's why deals take so long to complete, it's a back and forth.

The US and the European countries know what Zelensky wants, he's constantly in the media. The Secretary of the Treasurer, Vice President, Secretary of State and a general met with Zelensky last week, at different times. A US negotiating team is meeting with Putin. When and if the two sides finalize their "want list", then the give and take begins.

Look back to history, this is the way it works.
Moo

 

[Cedars]

I don't think the US is threatened by Russia. It's the European nations that fear Russia.

NATO=Europe + Canada + US.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Even our opposition leader (the one who is not in power) scorned those words. It is unusual for Dutton to speak out against DJT

It's the first time Peter Dutton has said something that I agree with.

 

[Dotta]

ETA: Just so others know, Australia and NZ cannot be part of NATO as we are in the Southern hemisphere, and NATO is the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

Hahaha
This made my chuckle so hard
What a riposte!