Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #11

[Deleted member 39678]

Starmer: You are very welcome here in Downing Street, you have our full support and backing for as long as it takes. A lasting peace for Ukraine. So important for Europe and Ukraine.

It will be interesting to see if Zellenskyy demands a security agreement from Starmer today.

 

[Snoopster]

NATO speaks....Sides with the US

NATO chief issues warning to Zelensky after car crash Trump talks.

NATO chief Mark Rutte has said he told Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky that he needs to find a way to restore his relationship with President Donald Trump after Friday's White House clash.

'It is important that President Zelensky finds a way to restore his relationship with the American President and with the senior American leadership team,' Rutte told the BBC on Saturday, commenting on a call he had with Zelensky on Friday.

He described the meeting at the White House as 'unfortunate'.

Rutte's dire warning to the war-time president comes as Zelensky duked it out with Trump and Vice President JD Vance in the Oval Office over the conditions of a possible ceasefire with Russia.

This is very misleading IMO.

ummm....that one guy seems like an outlier and that is not an official NATO statement. Considering which countries are in NATO....they all seem to stand with Zelenskyy, rather than with Putin/Trump/North Korea.

‘Free world needs a new leader’, says EU foreign chief after Trump Zelenskyy row

The EU foreign policy chief has declared that “the free world needs a new leader”, as European leaders threw their support behind Ukraine’s president, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, after the stunning White House confrontation between him and Donald Trump. Leaders from across Europe expressed their solidarity with the Ukrainian leader after the fractious exchange with JD Vance, the US vice-president, and Trump...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-reaction-trump-zelenskyy-meeting-1.7471760

Multiple European leaders, including French President Emmanuel Macron and Ursula von der Leyen, the president of the European Commission, also took to social media to signal their support for Ukraine.

Canadian Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly said a ceasefire deal that doesn't include security guarantees for Ukraine could risk Russia re-arming and then invading its neighbour again.

"We believe in supporting Ukraine, our position has not changed. We think Ukrainians are fighting for their own freedoms and also fighting for ours," Joly told reporters Friday afternoon.

Countries that have announced (in response to the meeting with Trump and gang yesterday) that they stand with Zelenskyy include: Germany, France, Spain, Poland, Netherlands, Norway, Czech Republic, Sweden, Latvia, Croatia, Canada...etc., etc. And they are all members of NATO.

These leading democratic nations are aghast at Trump's actions and comments.

 

[Simply Southern]

The EU isn't asking the US to keep funding their portion of the costs of Ukraine's war.

They're asking the US to provide air cover and intelligence for EU forces if Russia violates the peace agreement.

‘You have full backing across the UK’: Zelenskyy leaves Downing Street after meeting with Starmer – as it happened

Ukrainian president has held talks with PM Keir Starmer ahead of defence summit with European leaders tomorrow. This blog is now closed.

www.theguardian.com

Contrary to Trump's remarks, the US hasn't been paying the full cost of the Ukraine war, it has been sharing those costs with EU countries. Are these errors of his due to a lack of knowledge about Russia's invasion of Ukraine? Has Trump forgotten those important facts or is he being dishonest? The EU hasn't asked the US to pay the full cost of defending Ukraine. They're only asking they contribute to the effort to provide security in the event of another Russian attack. Air cover and intelligence seems like a reasonable request.

Russia has broken cease fire agreements many times in the past. There's no reason to trust their word.

Why can't they provide it? The Royal Air Force is one of the world's leading military operations. They are helping out in the Red Sea now.

The US has made it very clear and I don't think any amount of badgering, bad press, false accusations is going to change it. It's not our burden to bear. Ukraine winning the war is impossible, unless he overthrows the Russian government, extremely unlikely. He is like so many in that area, he borders a very bad neighbor. He doesn't want to try a peace agreement. He's making a choice to continue the fight. He needs to find funding and stop looking to the US.

NATO has already issued a statement I posted it up thread. Zelenskyy's needs to fix the relationship with the US. He reminded him of how much the US had done for you Ukraine. NATO's position it's such a relief to me. I now know they are standing with the US.

Moo...

 

[PommyMommy]

FEB 28, 2025

We asked Americans about Trump’s Ukraine policy. Here’s what they said

The Kyiv Independent invited its American readers to share their thoughts on U.S. President Donald Trump’s policy on Ukraine and Russia on Feb. 24, the third-year anniversary of Russia's full-scale war against Ukraine. In less than a day, we received over 400 emails, expressing views that...

kyivindependent.com

In less than a day, we received over 400 emails, expressing views that ranged from cautious skepticism about the U.S. approach to Ukraine to outright condemnation of Trump’s statements on the issue.

"While I want the war to end, I believe Trump is the one who has been 'played,' as evidenced by the Kremlin’s talking points now coming out of Trump’s own mouth. It appears the Trump administration’s plan to negotiate peace is to give Putin everything he wants, blame Ukraine for standing up to Russia, and extort precious resources from Ukraine without providing any security guarantees."

"Ukraine’s fight is about more than territorial sovereignty — it is a battle for democracy, self-determination, and the principles of international law. Any approach that suggests 'peace' through concessions to Russia is deeply flawed. Russia has repeatedly shown that it does not honor agreements and that any pause in aggression is merely a chance to regroup and strike again. True peace cannot come at the cost of Ukrainian land, people, or future."

"I am a former U.S. Marine and a retired law enforcement officer. I have been volunteering in Ukraine since the war began. I am disgusted and livid about the actions of our so-called 'president.' It is clear that he has allied himself with dictators and is implementing a transactional foreign policy based not on values or morals, but on profit, greed, and misplaced nationalism. I wore my country's uniform for almost 30 years. Now, I am embarrassed to be an American."

"Speaking as a wife whose husband served as a U.S. Department of Defense civilian for 40+ years — nearly 10 of which were under Top Secret Security Clearance — we’ve never been as terrified for the world’s safety as we are now. But the only 'peace deal' acceptable to us and other true Americans is for Putin to get the out of Ukraine."

"I am a long-term supporter of President Trump. My opinion on his handling of the current situation is that I agree with his goal of finding an off-ramp from the war toward peace, but from the knowledge that is publicly available of how that is going, I am having doubts about the current approach. I do not agree with his untruthful rhetoric, and I do not agree with the amount of concessions toward Russia that have been indicated publicly with the lack of concessions in return. Regarding the minerals deal, I agree with the general idea of an economic joint deal between the U.S. and Ukraine involving development of the post-war economy and ties between both nations, but I feel like it needs to include some degree of security guarantees for Ukraine."

"I'm a retired U.S. Marine and have been to Kharkiv (2015) and Odessa (2021). I'm bitterly disappointed with the Trump administration's policy in this war. In my opinion, President Trump drank the Russians' disinformation campaign Kool-Aid and his ego won't allow him to admit he's wrong."

"I have fought two wars and was wounded several times for my country. The Marines I lost in those wars knew we were fighting so others could live in relative peace and freedom. We were willing to die just for the possibility of it. They weren’t having to pay for their peace, so why would Ukraine have to pay in mineral rights for theirs? The Budapest Memorandum was backed by American values, and Russia knew that. Defending Ukraine should have started in 2014, but we failed, and Europe failed. History and mankind are watching and we are on the wrong side of it."

"I have always been proud of my ancestral homeland, but never more so than over the last three years. I know that if Ukraine runs out of rockets, they'll use shells. If they run out of shells, they'll use bullets. If they run out of bullets, they'll use stones. Ukraine may be occupied, but she will never be conquered."

(Many more at the link)

 

[Betty P]

It will be interesting to see if Zellenskyy demands a security agreement from Starmer today.

You may want to read the earlier article at The Guardian. Starmer and other EU leaders have already discussed and agreed that everyone will provide security to Ukraine if Russia breaks the cease fire agreement. They know its necessary as Russia has a long history of breaking cease fire agreements and invading across it's neighbor's borders.

‘You have full backing across the UK’: Zelenskyy leaves Downing Street after meeting with Starmer – as it happened

Ukrainian president has held talks with PM Keir Starmer ahead of defence summit with European leaders tomorrow. This blog is now closed.

www.theguardian.com

The only problem is with Trump, who is refusing to provide the US share of a security agreement - to provide air cover, if needed and intelligence.

Why would Trump not want to provide intelligence to the EU if they become aware of a Russian attack on Ukraine? Does this mean that Trump would approve if Russian decides to invade Ukraine or other EU countries again? Why would he approve of that?

 

[PommyMommy]

After that propaganda about Trump. I'm done with Ukraine. Moo

???

The author of the book is an American.

 

[JennieM]

4m ago17.52 GMT
Starmer told Zelenskyy that the cheering crowds outside Downing Street showed “you have full backing across the United Kingdom”.

Speaking inside Number 10, he told the Ukrainian president: “Let me just say that you’re very, very welcome here in Downing Street.

“And as you heard from the cheers on the street outside, you have full backing across the United Kingdom, and we stand with you, with Ukraine, for as long as it may take.

“I hope you heard some of that cheering on the street.

“That is the people of the United Kingdom coming out to demonstrate how much they support you, how much they support Ukraine, and our absolute determination to stand with you – unwavering determination – and to achieve what we both want to achieve, which is a lasting peace.

“A lasting peace for Ukraine based on sovereignty and security for Ukraine – so important for Ukraine, so important for Europe and so important for the United Kingdom.

“So I’m much looking forward to our discussions here this afternoon – thank you very much for making the time to come.”

Ukraine's Zelenskyy meets Britain's Starmer in Londo ahead of a bilateral meeting. Photograph: Neil Hall/EPA

‘You have full backing across the UK’: Zelenskyy leaves Downing Street after meeting with Starmer – as it happened

Ukrainian president has held talks with PM Keir Starmer ahead of defence summit with European leaders tomorrow. This blog is now closed.

www.theguardian.com

 

[Jade]

Notice the umbrage is about dissing Trump, not the US, its government or its people; Trump.

That's the outrage: Trump was dumped.

Well meaning Americans will still be welcomed where they do good around the world as individuals and as part of humanitarian and other pro social efforts, imo.

All imo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

You may want to read the earlier article at The Guardian. Starmer and other EU leaders have already discussed and agreed that everyone will provide security to Ukraine if Russia breaks the cease fire agreement. They know its necessary as Russia has a long history of breaking cease fire agreements and invading across it's neighbor's borders.

‘You have full backing across the UK’: Zelenskyy leaves Downing Street after meeting with Starmer – as it happened

Ukrainian president has held talks with PM Keir Starmer ahead of defence summit with European leaders tomorrow. This blog is now closed.

www.theguardian.com

The only problem is with Trump, who is refusing to provide the US share of a security agreement - to provide air cover, if needed and intelligence.

Why would Trump not want to provide intelligence to the EU if they become aware of a Russian attack on Ukraine? Does this mean that Trump would approve if Russian decides to invade Ukraine or other EU countries again? Why would he approve of that?

What ceasefire agreement?

 

[Betty P]

What ceasefire agreement?

The one that Trump keeps referencing. He claims Russia will not invade Ukraine once they sign the mining agreement.

Do you think the EU and Zelensky should sign the mining agreement without getting assurances from Russia that they won't attack and invade Ukraine again?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Notice the umbrage is about dissing Trump, not the US, its government or its people; Trump.

That's the outrage: Trump was dumped.

Well meaning Americans will still be welcomed where they do good around the world as individuals and as part of humanitarian and other pro social efforts, imo.

All imo

What about Trump supporters like me? How will they be treated?

 

[Cedars]

This is very misleading IMO.

ummm....that one guy seems like an outlier and that is not an official NATO statement. Considering which countries are in NATO....they all seem to stand with Zelenskyy, rather than with Putin/Trump/North Korea.

I saw the statement by the head of NATO, Rutte. He has frequently, just recently, issued statements in strong support of Ukraine.

I think we need to understand, this is not a free-for-all bar fight.

IMO, NATO has no option to publicly chastize or futher embarrass, even humiliate Trump. As the head of NATO, he must publicly side with the US, regardless of his personal opinion. He cannot be seen to publicly side with a non-NATO country. Not a chance.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The one that Trump keeps referencing. He claims Russia will not invade Ukraine once they sign the mining agreement.

The one that Zellensky doesn't want?

During Friday morning's heated news conference in the Oval Office, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky emphatically told U.S. President Donald Trump that his country wasn't interested in a ceasefire deal amid its ongoing Russian invasion.

Zelensky rebukes Trump's call for Russian ceasefire to his face

In his earlier remarks, Trump called for a "ceasefire" and "truce" amid Russia's ongoing invasion of Ukraine.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Betty P]

What about Trump supporters like me? How will they be treated?

I doubt any country in the EU is going to ask to see your voting record if you go there to visit. If you go there to visit and end up publicly demonstrating support for Trump while criticizing the host country's support for Ukraine, they may treat you rudely.

Perhaps that's what EU countries are concerned about - that some Americans will come to their country and attempt to make a spectacle of themselves in support of Trump. That has happened before in Canada. Very rude behavior, JMO.

 

[JennieM]

The one that Zellensky doesn't want?

Zelensky rebukes Trump's call for Russian ceasefire to his face

In his earlier remarks, Trump called for a "ceasefire" and "truce" amid Russia's ongoing invasion of Ukraine.

www.newsweek.com

Z wants a ceasefire agreement with security guarantees.

He is willing to give 50% of his country’s minerals for this ceasefire agreement, but first he needs security assurances that Trump will not give.

 

[justtrish]

What I don't understand....
He makes demands the US enter the war and fund his country, but he's not making those same demands on his partners, neighbors, and the European Union.

Waiting to say what Zelenskyy's next move/plan is?

Moo...

I think this is spot on simply southern. Also, just because we haven't had boots on the ground in Ukraine doesn't mean we haven't sent servicemembers overseas who otherwise would be home with their families. My son was part of one of the first groups to be sent over to Germany to stage up and wait in case they were needed. He spent 6 months away from his family right after Russia invaded Ukraine. Many others did as well. He is currently overseas again as part of another effort to keep border areas beefed up in case there is a need. This time is 9 months away from his family. During this deployment, he's spent time in 5 different European countries. I think there are more "boots on the ground" in Europe (and more than just in Germany at the US military bases there) than the average American knows about. Our military sacrifices a lot. I'm not sure what security guarantees Ukraine wants from the US. We do not need US boots on the ground in Ukraine. I've been a military spouse for nearly 30 years and now a military mom for going on 5 years now. Our military is spread thin.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I doubt any country in the EU is going to ask to see your voting record if you go there to visit. If you go there to visit and end up publicly demonstrating support for Trump while criticizing the host country's support for Ukraine, they may treat you rudely.

Perhaps that's what EU countries are concerned about - that some Americans will come to their country and attempt to make a spectacle of themselves in support of Trump. That has happened before in Canada. Very rude behavior, JMO.

I'm sure that I would be treated very bad. No doubt about it. JMO.

 

[Betty P]

The one that Zellensky doesn't want?

Zelensky rebukes Trump's call for Russian ceasefire to his face

In his earlier remarks, Trump called for a "ceasefire" and "truce" amid Russia's ongoing invasion of Ukraine.

www.newsweek.com

Zellensky has been clear that the problem is with the US refusal to participate with other EU countries in protecting Ukraine if Russia tries to invade again after they have signed the peace agreement. He's said that numerous times, both yesterday at the WH and today.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Z wants a ceasefire agreement with security guarantees.

He is willing to give 50% of his country’s minerals for this ceasefire agreement, but first he needs security assurances that Trump will not give.

He doesn't trust Putin so no ceasefire is going to happen under his leadership. Maybe Zellensky needs to resign for the sake of Ukraine.

Zelensky urged skepticism about Russia's commitment to diplomacy, pointing to Moscow's long history of broken agreements on the global stage.

Zelensky rebukes Trump's call for Russian ceasefire to his face

In his earlier remarks, Trump called for a "ceasefire" and "truce" amid Russia's ongoing invasion of Ukraine.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Betty P]

I think this is spot on simply southern. Also, just because we haven't had boots on the ground in Ukraine doesn't mean we haven't sent servicemembers overseas who otherwise would be home with their families. My son was part of one of the first groups to be sent over to Germany to stage up and wait in case they were needed. He spent 6 months away from his family right after Russia invaded Ukraine. Many others did as well. He is currently overseas again as part of another effort to keep border areas beefed up in case there is a need. This time is 9 months away from his family. During this deployment, he's spent time in 5 different European countries. I think there are more "boots on the ground" in Europe (and more than just in Germany at the US military bases there) than the average American knows about. Our military sacrifices a lot. I'm not sure what security guarantees Ukraine wants from the US. We do not need US boots on the ground in Ukraine. I've been a military spouse for nearly 30 years and now a military mom for going on 5 years now. Our military is spread thin.

Someone will need to provide a link with a quote from Zelensky or any EU country that those are the demands of the US. Starmer re-iterated again today that the only thing being asked of the US is, in the event of another Russian invasion, the US provide air cover and intelligence.

‘You have full backing across the UK’: Zelenskyy leaves Downing Street after meeting with Starmer – as it happened

Ukrainian president has held talks with PM Keir Starmer ahead of defence summit with European leaders tomorrow. This blog is now closed.

www.theguardian.com

It's embarrassing for the US that Trump keeps misrepresenting the facts about our allies. He's not just calling Zelensky a liar, he's doing the same to our EU allies.

ETA: What is the benefit to the US of betraying our NATO allies and taking up arms and loyalties with Russia and NK? I don't see any benefit to the US, but perhaps there's some benefit to Trump, Musk, etc. personally?