Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #13

[UK Girl]

Zelensky was repeatedly told US financial support would stop, unless he was willing to work towards peace negotiation. After his stunt, in the Oval office on Friday. Trump gave him FOUR days to come to his senses before shutting off aid. Is Trump affording the same opportunity for Russia to rethink their decision? Yeap

Aid will not be paused. That ship sailed Friday. Trump will not back down, and the majority of US citizens support his decision. Zelensky is hard-headed. He doesn't listen, clearly does not respect the United States nor the support we have provided to him. Continues his overwhelming thanks to his European allies and rarely mentions support from the United States. He clearly has shown over the past week, he does not need our support. He's been giving billions by European country. He doesn't need our aid. Europe is providing much more than the United States did.

Moo...

We always did provide as much as the Us did...but it has been said that if they get on a path to peace that aid will likely be reinstored to Ukraine.

 

[Sundog]

You seem very anti Ukraine/zelensky which I find at odds with the vast majority of people around the world. Zelensky has every right to be a part of any peace negotiations for his country - to exclude him is beyond odd, it’s highly suspicious - who is hiding what and why…. Putin has already reneged on agreements, why does trump think he won’t if an agreement is made now?

What trump dislikes is that Zelensky has the strength to stand up to the bullying by Putin trump and Vance (tag team abusers, Gang stalking). Zelensky knows exactly who and what Putin, trump and Vance are and that’s why they try to belittle and bully him. They are lower than snakes bellies, they aren’t men of honour.

The concern is that Zelensky will sabotage or blindside the negotiations, so it is best that negotiations are left to those in Ukraine who can handle it and stay focused. He can certainly be advising his team, one would expect that, but it is best if he stays away at this stage so as not to alienate others in the negotiations, which he is good at.

Ad hominen attacks against leaders you don't like may make people feel better in the moment, but they aren't useful in solving problems that our leaders are working to solve, the honorable President of the United States, Vice President Vance, and the other members of the negotiation team. Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but it is only that, your opinion. MOO.

 

[JennieM]

Trump asked about a peace deal​

One reporter asks why European countries have not come up with their own peace plan. Trump replies that "sometime questions are unanswerable".

He says "they don't know how to end the war" but says that he does have an idea of how to bring it to an end.

Trump quizzed on US position on Ukraine​

Over the last few moments we have been hearing from President Trump in the Oval Office.

He had been speaking about the US economy but took questions from reporters on the situation in Ukraine. If you missed it, here are the key takeaways:

• The president reiterated the point he made earlier on Truth Social that Russia is "bombing the hell" out of Ukraine while adding that he is finding it "more difficult" to deal with Ukraine
• Adviser Mike Waltz told reporters they believe things will "get back on track" with Ukraine - a message that was echoed by Trump
• Trump acknowledged that Ukraine was suffering - explaining Putin was hitting the country "harder that it has ever been"
• However, he expressed uncertainty over whether Ukraine wants to "settle" - adding a warning that the situation could end up as "World War Three"

Wave of Russian strikes kill at least 20 and injures dozens, officials say

Ukraine's President Zelensky urges more sanctions against Russia as he says the strikes show the Kremlin's goals "are unchanged".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Stella123]

"Asked why the US will not provide Ukraine with air defences in light of his decision to pause military assistance, Trump responds that he doesn't know whether Ukraine "want to settle”"

This is a terrible excuse. Zelensky has been public for days that he wants to achieve a lasting peace and is willing to talk. It was supposed to happen on Tuesday.

I linked a video earlier, where a Ukrainian minster said "Ukraine is partially blinded" (by the withdrawal of intelligence).

I am really really angry. That Trump has partially blinded an innocent party in a war against an aggressor. How is that going to achieve peace? The war will continue while talks are going on. Clearly Trump has no control over Putin at all. He's just all mouth. JMO MOO

 

[JennieM]

Did Trump pass his cognitive test? Serious question.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Yes, it was quite eye-opening going through some of the earlier posts in this thread that's been around for three years. It wasn't gradual, either.

How will posts age in 3 years, 6 year, maybe 12+ years in a war that can’t be won? I hope I’m not reading about body counts and more land taken, among other things. imo

 

[UK Girl]

The US is not isolated. Rather than relying solely on our European allies, the US has spent years developing strong relationships, allies with others. Countries that have strong military capabilities.

European countries have involved into an isolated island. They bicker among themselves, and publicly announced their military weaknesses and failure to invest in defense. They've not developed strong relationships with non European countries.

The United States is a world leader. The United States has the most nuclear weapons. The United States has the most powerful army on Earth.

Most countries value a relationship with the United States. Zelensky did not.

List of states with nuclear weapons - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Moo

Honestly European countries are getting on better than they ever have and working for the greater goal here.

Zelensky gets on well with other leaders. Trump? Not so much

Honestly I dont know that America DOES have strong relationship with others. They did until a couple of months ago but now?

Zelensky did value a relationship with the Us until its leaders treated him like dirt

 

[statt#1]

Z messed up in Washington. War is he ll. No change until someone gets Putin to the table. Warmongers getting what they want.....war. Truly sad. Continued blaming of Trump is missing the entire point. My opinion.

 

[keek]

Did Trump pass his cognitive test? Serious question.

WE will never know the truth of that as in his paid off MD in the past, those tests.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

So many wanting to take credit for Trump's decision. Americans know Trump, they know nobody tells Trump what to do. Trump is his own man, makes his own decisions, smart enough to seek council from wise Americans. He's a successful, wealthy businessman, he's established World ride relationships through business ventures. He surrounds himself with successful, intelligent people. He brings much strength to the table. Yes he's a convicted felon. And we still elected him as president. CBS poll showed 79% approval rating after his speech to Congress, and we all know CBS has not been kind to Trump. I was gobsmacked when I saw they released the results. I thought they would have buried this in a deep, deep hole somewhere.

Nope, no one influenced Trump.
Moo...

One half of this country knows T lies through his teeth. Why would we watch his show? I do not know one single Democrat who watched his show. The next day buzz is bad enough!! Just me being jokey. moo. But true. And yes, below is what CBS said:

A large majority of speech watchers approved of what they heard from President Trump's joint address to Congress Tuesday night.
The viewership was heavily Republican — historically a president's party draws more of their own partisans. This was no exception, and they liked what they heard.

There are other polls. I for one, didn't watch because I personally and honestly can no bear his voice or his lies. But that is just me. @Simply Southern you, of course, know that both sides can find anything we want to defend or degrade. I fully admit that, when it comes to me.

Donald Trump’s laughable first address to Congress Tuesday night was his least popular ever, garnering one of the least enthusiastic reactions for a president’s first address to the chamber in the last two decades, according to a CNN poll,
Apparently, only 44 percent of viewers had a very positive reaction to the president’s address. Twenty-five percent had a somewhat positive reaction, and 31 percent had a negative reaction.

Trump Hit With Devastating Poll Result After Bonkers Speech

The results are in for Donald Trump’s address to Congress—and they’re bad.

www.yahoo.com

 

[JennieM]

Trump hardens stance on Russia, while also questioning Ukraine
​

Bernd Debusmann Jr
Reporting from the White House

US President Donald Trump's tone on Russia seems to have hardened slightly - but he still sounds sceptical of Ukraine's leadership and their willingness to come to the negotiating table.

Speaking in the Oval Office just moments ago, Trump said that Russia "is bombing the hell out of Ukraine" - and that he's told them they "can't do that".

His remarks were tempered by the suggestion that other leaders around the world would similarly take advantage of a decrease in foreign military assistance to their enemies.

"I think he's doing what anyone else would do – he's hitting them harder than he's been hitting them, and anyone in that position would be doing right now," Trump said. "He wants to get it ended. I think Ukraine wants to get it ended. I suspect he wants to get it ended."

The US president appears to have not shifted much on his position - starkly highlighted after last week's infamous Oval Office meeting with Zelensky - that he is not convinced by Ukraine's desire for peace.

At one point, Trump was asked why he doesn't supply Ukraine air defence weapons, despite Russia's mounting aerial attacks.

His answer is unlikely to assuage concerns in Kyiv or in European capitals.

"I have to know that I want to settle," he said.

Trump, however, seems increasingly confident that Russia is willing to negotiate, despite statements from the Kremlin. Just yesterday, he suggested he is privy to information - that only he knows - that indicates "they have no choice".

Wave of Russian strikes kill at least 20 and injures dozens, officials say

Ukraine's President Zelensky urges more sanctions against Russia as he says the strikes show the Kremlin's goals "are unchanged".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Simply Southern]

Most of this is simply not true. People keep repeating to you and linking to you, things to contradict what you're saying. So you think Ukrainian civilians deserve to be bombarded by Russia because Trump witheld aid and intelligence because he was annoyed? JMO.

Are you staying Trump did NOT give Zelensky a four day cooling off period, to agree to peace negotiation?
The event happened on Friday, he didn't cut off aid till late night hours Tuesday.

No I don't think Ukrainian citizens deserve any of this. This is a decision, Zelensky, their leader made. They support their leader, as they should. Ukrainian citizens praised Zelensky for the Oval office meeting. Clearly, they don't need see the need for US support or weapons. I read both Ukraine papers and BBC , several times day, the message is clear. I follow Zelensky on X.

Please, let me know what I'm saying that is not true. I do Post links, I read every single article posted, no matter the viewpoint. I respect those who do not agree with me.
Moo...

 

[Stella123]

Are you staying Trump did NOT give Zelensky a four day cooling off period, to agree to peace negotiation?
The event happened on Friday, he didn't cut off aid till late night hours Tuesday.

No I don't think Ukrainian citizens deserve any of this. This is a decision, Zelensky, their leader made. They support their leader, as they should. Ukrainian citizens praised Zelensky for the Oval office meeting. Clearly, they don't need see the need for US support or weapons. I read both Ukraine papers and BBC , several times day, the message is clear. I follow Zelensky on X.

Please, let me know what I'm saying that is not true. I do Post links, I read every single article posted, no matter the viewpoint. I respect those who do not agree with me.
Moo...

He cut off aid after Zelensky met the King. I don't have the timescale in front of me, but Zelensky has spent all this week saying he respects US and Trump and he wants to achieve a lasting peace and talk. He was expecting for a meeting this Tuesday and it didn't go ahead.

If Trump was really seeking a lasting peace, why didn't he sanction both Ukraine and Russia?

 

[Simply Southern]

Why the aggression towards us Europeans helping him?

Aggression...NO. I'm very happy European countries for stepping up to help him. I'm very happy European countries recognize they must build greater defenses. I'm happy they've opened their coffers to BILLIONS of dollars, providing military aircraft, weaponry and humanitarian aid. All of these actions will make much safer and secure for all the citizens.
Moo...

 

[UK Girl]

Zelensky is 100% responsible. Trump offered him the pathway to peace. For at least a month, US officials and European leaders warned Zelensky what would happen. The day of the famous Oval office stunt, Congressional Representatives warned him that morning, not to try to negotiate a peace deal on national TV. He's a hard head, attention seeker, with no decorum.

This is all on Zelensky. He made the choice this that day. If you go back and look at the video, his own staff bowed their heads, close their eyes and pinch their noses, in shame. The staff almost in tears, wanted to sign the economic agreement, trying to salvage the situation. His Parliament voted and approved the deal, his name was not even on the contract to be signed.

I think his Parliaments figured out the real Zelensky. He's not included in the peace negotiation in Saudi Arabia. That's a pretty strong message he doesn't have the support of his governing body any longer.

There will be apeace Ukraine and Zelensky will soon fade into the background.

Moo

Not true tbh. In fact theres a lot of assuming. Incidentally his Parliament is still supporting him. He would likely win another election

 

[Simply Southern]

He cut off aid after Zelensky met the King. I don't have the timescale in front of me, but Zelensky has spent all this week saying he respects US and Trump and he wants to achieve a lasting peace and talk. He was expecting for a meeting this Tuesday and it didn't go ahead.

If Trump was really seeking a lasting peace, why didn't he sanction both Ukraine and Russia?

He met with the King on Saturday or Sunday. Trump and the vast majority of Americans I think highly of the king. The aid wasn't cut off till late Tuesday night, after his address to Congress.

Ukraine has nothing to sanction. Russia has an opportunity to stop aggressive Force or Trump will sanction him. I don't believe all these sanctions are doing any good. Russia has seemed to survive the sanctions and work around them, by dealing with foreign adversaries.

The function certainly haven't worked in the European country. Many are continuing to buy gas directly from Russia.
Moo

 

[UK Girl]

Trump and the US are on cordial terms with Putin. Ukraine is vulnerable because Zelensky refuses to work towards a peace agreement, for a war that's going nowhere. Does anybody really believe Ukraine can win against Russia?

I do believe, France it's walking a fine line. Is France willing the fire of a couple of nuclear weapons against Russia, to give Ukraine the advantage they so dearly need?

Keep pushing Putin and he will show force. Moo, that's what got Ukraine in the war they're in now. Zelensky trying to obtain NATO membership was clearly a threat to Russia. Zelensky wants NATO to put nuclear weapons in Ukraine to use against Russia. NATO has been saying no to his membership for years, he created this war to try to force NATO intervention and guarantee him a membership.

Moo

I live in Europe. I do not recognise a lot of what is claimed on here. France is not walking a tight line. The bottom fact is we can not give in to dictators whether it be Putin or Trump. Sorry but that is true. Russia has threatened to nuke us over and over since THEY started this illegal war. Still we helped Zelensky because it is the right thing to do. Incidentally if they do nuke France they will get nuked straight back and they know that.

 

[Vern]

His coffers have been restored this week with BILLIONS given by European Nations.

He continues his overwhelming thanks to his European allies. Clearly he has shown that he does not need the financial support of the US government. We are insignificant.
Moo

Clearly,

The USofA has made it's own position very clear in that they neither support the sovereign democracy of Ukraine nor it's ability to defend itself from Russian aggression.

The US adminstration is:

1) Actively attempting to interfere in a sovereign nations elections process and have this sovereign nation change it's democraticly elected leader to someone else;

2) Actively encoraging/ordering Ukraine to "just sign the deal or we're out" (aka "extortion") to give up 50% of it's natural resources and 500 billion dollars for generations to come to the USA;

3) Actively preventing other nations from sharing intelligence and equipment and munitions with Ukraine that would assist them in defending themselves;

4) Actively telling other nations (Europe) etc that "they" have no say at the table with Ukraine while the other side of their face insists "this is a European problem";

5) Actively telling Ukraine to cede their occupied territories to the Russians an just be done with it (aka: surrender NOW!);

5) Actively threatening civilian entities into 'not providing GPS or satellite" imagery to Ukraine; which

6) DIRECTLY results in the USofA undermining Ukraine's absolute right as a sovereign nation to defend itself.

Sure, but ZERO of the above things = "just trust us; we're impartial and looking out for your best interests" ...


Clearly, Ukraine and Europe now know which side of the war America is on as US actions, words and deeds have made it spectacularily obvious to the remainder of the democratic Free World - which includes Ukraine.

IMO.

Interesting that it's not just the stock markets going down in the US:

Authoritarian Threat Index
Democracy Tracker


.

 

[Simply Southern]

A simple internet search reveals dozens of results showing Zelensky doing just that. Of note, he has never called veterans "suckers" or "losers".

Here is just one example of Zelensky rallying his troops.

Zelensky, first lady visit wounded soldiers, pledge to address accessibility issues

"Every front is important, and you served on the most challenging ones. You are our heroes, and we are deeply grateful to each of you," the president said.

kyivindependent.com

The is great to know. I am passionate for our wounded and injured veterans. We are our lives to them.

Thanks for posting. I'm sure he and his wife visiting brought them great comfort. A great article, again thanks.
Moo

 

[nhmemorymaker]

So many wanting to take credit for Trump's decision. Americans know Trump, they know nobody tells Trump what to do. Trump is his own man, makes his own decisions, smart enough to seek council from wise Americans. He's a successful, wealthy businessman, he's established World ride relationships through business ventures. He surrounds himself with successful, intelligent people. He brings much strength to the table. Yes he's a convicted felon. And we still elected him as president. CBS poll showed 79% approval rating after his speech to Congress, and we all know CBS has not been kind to Trump. I was gobsmacked when I saw they released the results. I thought they would have buried this in a deep, deep hole somewhere.

Nope, no one influenced Trump.
Moo...

Well, @Simply Southern , I am sure you know that there are "two sides to everything" I just hope I can be around long enough to see what really does happen in the more distant future.

For now... our opinions are nothing more than ..........All in the eyes of the Beholder.

I dunno... 11 bankruptcies and counting.... I know, sometimes, bankruptcies are strategic, but when its a way of life...well... its a way of life.

The NJ Generals, Trump University, Beauty Pagaents,...sneakers, Bibles, silver coins, digital trading cards (??), Bonwit Teller's art, Atlantic City--- sooo many failures. Didn't he try steaks too? And Ivanka clothing. Milania this and that. PILLOWS!!! He MUST have sold pillows too!!!!!
I am j-o-k-i-n g.... (on the pillows)

Examining Donald Trump’s Chapter 11 Bankruptcies | ABI

www.abi.org

six bankruptcies were the result of over-leveraged hotel and casino businesses in Atlantic City and New York: Trump Taj Mahal (1991), Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino (1992), Plaza Hotel (1992), Trump Castle Hotel and Casino (1992), Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts (2004), and Trump Entertainment Resorts (2009).

Business career of Donald Trump - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org