Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #13

[Donswife48]

<modsnip> I'm sorry, I must have missed them. Please summarize what intelligence tracking the other nations have and if they have it, why is it a disaster if the US cuts intelligence sharing when they have their own? Thank you.

 

[sunflowermomma]

Yes, both sides. It involved both sides to walk away. So far neither side is willing to concede anything.

Peace negotiations in the Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ukraine is an independent country that has been invaded and should not have to concede their land. Russia should stop invading.

 

[Donswife48]

They have contributed 3 billion by the sounds of it.

My reply was to the post that they haven't been asked to contribute to peace keeping forces.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

His sidekick has also made the news and is accused of misinformation.


Elon Musk sparks row at Royal Society but remains a member

Members of the UK's Royal Society have urged the elite scientific academy to "step up its efforts to advocate for science and scientists" amid a row over one of its fellows - Elon Musk.

Over the last nine months, many scientists have raised concerns about the controversial billionaire's behaviour, which has been called a "threat to science".

The campaign to revoke Mr Musk's membership centres on suggestions, from a growing number of fellows, that the billionaire's actions are "incompatible" with the society's own code of conduct.

Mr Musk has overseen unprecedented funding cuts to scientific research in the US, in his senior role in President Trump's Department of Government Efficiency (or Doge).

Mr Musk has also been accused of sharing misinformation on his social media platform, X.

[…]

The society agreed to "look at potential further actions" to "counter the misinformation and ideologically motivated attacks on both science and scientists".

The BBC understands that a letter will be sent to Mr Musk from the Royal Society.

Elon Musk sparks crisis at Royal Society but remains a member

The world's most prestigious science institution has been considering whether to remove Musk as a fellow.

www.bbc.co.uk

Interesting. They want to cancel Musk. One of the reasons he bought Twitter was so a wide range of beliefs could be debated.

From the link -
Nobel prize-winner Prof Sir Andre Geim from Manchester University said: "Musk is certainly an eccentric, but his achievements beat those of any of his critics in the Royal Society. Very few can say that they achieved similar in their lives."

Other scientists who spoke to the BBC pointed out that an attempt to remove Mr Musk's fellowship could be seen as political interference and a curtailment of freedom of expression.

 

[UK Girl]

Surely Europe and other nations supporting Ukraine have technology, when are they stepping in? JMO MOO

So you said about Australia and why did they not contribute before when they had and now you ae asking when Europe are stepping in?? when we already have and then you say theres a lot on here not correct?? weird.

 

[LibraStarr]

IMO

The idea that the U.S. is doing all the work while Europe drags its feet isn’t accurate.

Here’s the reality:

Europe has actually provided more total aid to Ukraine than the U.S. Since the war began, the EU and its member states have given around $145 billion in financial, military, and humanitarian aid. That’s more than what the U.S. has contributed.
Source

Military aid is significant from both sides. The U.S. has provided about $46.6 billion in military aid, but the UK and Germany have also made major contributions, with Germany committing 0.4% of its GDP and the UK committing 0.9% of its GDP to Ukrainian wartime aid.
Source

Europe is taking on other burdens. Millions of Ukrainian refugees have been housed, fed, and supported by European countries. Meanwhile, NATO allies are stepping up their defense spending and military production.
Source

Saying that “Europe needs to do more” ignores the fact that they already are. This isn’t just America’s fight—Ukraine has broad global support.

 

[UK Girl]

Yes, both sides. It involved both sides to walk away. So far neither side is willing to concede anything.

Peace negotiations in the Russian invasion of Ukraine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You want Ukraine to walk away from where exactly?

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm sorry, I must have missed them. Please summarize what intelligence tracking the other nations have and if they have it, why is it a disaster if the US cuts intelligence sharing when they have their own? Thank you.

It is not a disaster. But it is not nice at all. imo

For example, there is this intelligence alliance. The US is NOT the head of it. it is a partnership. So the other members can do what they need to do with the intelligence.


Five Eyes remains a key element in the intelligence and security landscape of each member country, providing them a strategic advantage in understanding and responding to global events.

Five Eyes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JennieM]

Interesting. They want to cancel Musk. One of the reasons he bought Twitter was so a wide range of beliefs could be debated.

From the link -
Nobel prize-winner Prof Sir Andre Geim from Manchester University said: "Musk is certainly an eccentric, but his achievements beat those of any of his critics in the Royal Society. Very few can say that they achieved similar in their lives."

Other scientists who spoke to the BBC pointed out that an attempt to remove Mr Musk's fellowship could be seen as political interference and a curtailment of freedom of expression.

From the link -

Nobel prize-winner Prof Sir Andre Geim from Manchester University said: "Musk is certainly an eccentric, but his achievements beat those of any of his critics in the Royal Society. Very few can say that they achieved similar in their lives."

Other scientists who spoke to the BBC pointed out that an attempt to remove Mr Musk's fellowship could be seen as political interference and a curtailment of freedom of expression.

But Prof George Efstathiou, from the University of Cambridge, dismissed that argument.

Members, he said, "should at least have respect for the truth".

"If somebody has a disregard for the truth and says things that are blatantly false, then that speaks to their ethical standards," he added. "That's not political."

 

[UK Girl]

My reply was to the post that they haven't been asked to contribute to peace keeping forces.

How would you know they havent been asked? they have only just started talking about it all and some countries actually keep things quiet.

 

[UK Girl]

It is not a disaster. But it is not nice at all. imo

For example, there is this intelligence alliance. The US is NOT the head of it. it is a partnership. So the other members can do what they need to do with the intelligence.


Five Eyes remains a key element in the intelligence and security landscape of each member country, providing them a strategic advantage in understanding and responding to global events.

Five Eyes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It is like some thing America is the only country that are doing anything and that is far from the truth.

 

[SouthAussie]

It is like some thing America is the only country that are doing anything and that is far from the truth.

Yes, too many people do not understand world structure and what each country does as part of that. imo

Hopefully this will be a good learning curve for many. Fingers crossed.

imo

 

[Donswife48]

Just a little past history. Boris Johnson Pressured Zelensky to ditch peace talks. The British government has become an obstacle to peace in Ukraine," said the Stop the War Coalition. "The conflict there is developing into a proxy war between Russia and NATO and it is the Ukrainian people who will suffer the consequences."

Boris Johnson Pressured Zelenskyy to Ditch Peace Talks With Russia: Ukrainian Paper | Common Dreams

"The British government has become an obstacle to peace in Ukraine," said the Stop the War Coalition. "The conflict there is developing into a proxy war between Russia and NATO and it is the Ukrainian people who will suffer the consequences."

www.commondreams.org

 

[branmuffin]

It seems that US is at a hard moment in time. Who is the friend or the foe...the country itself is divided and there is a lot of uncertainty but... you don't need to drop old friends to get the new ones.

If you view countries with high population density that are rapidly developing as your economic rivals, much less sense to alienate Canada IMHO. Canada also needs markets for its goods, it is in exactly the same situation as the US, what do you think the outcome of tariffs will be?

If there is a personal dislike of Canadian current leader (as I suspect), he is not going to run again.

Same with that meeting. I do suspect Trump got angry for a reason but logically, no sense to put Zelenskyy in such a situation publicly because people side with the underdog.

Ukraine, sadly, has the same problem as most post-Soviet countries (except for the ones that became EU members long ago). I mean, high corruption index. Explaining things economically works. This is how much we have sent in aid, this is what has been lost via third parties. No need to alienate the EU or talk about democracy. If it becomes the matter of, “1/X portion of the aid we sent is being siphoned off somewhere, it is unsustainable, so we need return on our money now”, it would convince me.

This could be the explanation. Trump and Vance Pulled an Old Hollywood Trick on Zelensky (Guest Column)

 

[Donswife48]

How would you know they havent been asked? they have only just started talking about it all and some countries actually keep things quiet.

SouthAussie provided this link. I find it helpful.

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/anthony-albanese-says-hes-open-to-sending-peacekeeping-troops-to-ukraine-says-he-will/news-story/b81f34f73b3321695ba74493f90c5919

 

[Donswife48]

You want Ukraine to walk away from where exactly?

From the war. JMO MOO

 

[UK Girl]

SouthAussie provided this link. I find it helpful.

https://www.news.com.au/national/politics/anthony-albanese-says-hes-open-to-sending-peacekeeping-troops-to-ukraine-says-he-will/news-story/b81f34f73b3321695ba74493f90c5919

Hmm ok...so America does not want to peacekeep because they are not in Europe and Ukraine is our neighbour. I am pretty sure that Australia is far further than America from Ukraine so why would you think they should help if America hasnt? although fair play to them for offering.

 

[UK Girl]

From the war. JMO MOO

It is in their country. There is only one country that can walk away and that isnt the one that was illegally invaded

 

[Cryptic]

Thing is had they been allowed to keep the weapons they had they may not have been invaded.

Well said.

In the past, Ukraine did voluntarily give up nuclear weapons in exchange that Russia recognized and affirmed the then current borders. Sadly, however, that irony does not change the present day reality- at all.

 

[Donswife48]

It is not a disaster. But it is not nice at all. imo

For example, there is this intelligence alliance. The US is NOT the head of it. it is a partnership. So the other members can do what they need to do with the intelligence.


Five Eyes remains a key element in the intelligence and security landscape of each member country, providing them a strategic advantage in understanding and responding to global events.

View attachment 568461

Five Eyes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Thank you, then it should not be a bash US when we pause our efforts. JMO MOO