Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #13

[Simply Southern]

Majority of western Europeans think Trump is threat to peace, survey finds​

Most respondents in Germany, France, Spain, Italy and UK also say Ukraine’s exclusion from peace talks is unacceptable

Majority of western Europeans think Trump is threat to peace, survey finds

Most respondents in Germany, France, Spain, Italy and UK also say Kyiv’s exclusion from peace talks is unacceptable

www.theguardian.com

I'm sure they do. They've been relying on US security for years, including thru NATO. If they would step up with their full funding of NATO, there would be NATO funding that could be used for Ukraine.

European do not heavily invest. in defense. At this conference and the one last week, the topic was ... We need to step up and find our own defense and stop relying on the US.

China, Russia, North Korea, fund their own defense. Is the US expected to fund the rest of the world against these powers?

Many European countries do not see the value in funding defense. All countries have a choice how they spend their money. Can't blame the US, we find our defense at over a trillion dollars a year.
Moo

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/08/nato-summit-canada-commitment-00166648

....
"The Canadian public doesn’t really see the need,” said Philippe Lagassé, Barton chair at Canada’s Carleton University. “If forced to choose between defense spending, social programs or reducing taxes, defense would always come last. So there’s no political gain to meeting the pledge.”

Canada’s stance prompted a bipartisan group of 23 U.S. senators to take the exceedingly rare step of sending a letter to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau in May saying they were “concerned and profoundly disappointed that Canada’s most recent projection indicated that it will not reach its 2 percent commitment this decade.”

And the situation could get much worse if Trump is elected.

 

[JennieM]

Starmer says UK will play 'leading part' in security of Ukraine​

We can now bring you some comments from Prime Minister Keir Starmer, who is speaking to workers and the media at a defence factory in Liverpool.

He says the "security and defence of our country, of Europe and Ukraine, is absolutely in the upper mind of the world at the moment".

When asked about military support to Ukraine, he says what matters most "is a lasting peace" that brings an end to the war and ensures Ukraine is able to make its own decisions.

It is important that everyone focuses on this, he says, adding: "if there is a deal... we defend the deal."

He says the government must focus on what the potential security guarantees are, adding the "United Kingdom will play a leading part" in this.

"It has to be done in conjunction with the United States," he says firmly, as they are "intertwined" with defence and security.

US and Ukraine officials to meet next week to discuss peace plans, Zelensky says

The Ukrainian leader says he will travel to Saudi Arabia where talks on bringing a "lasting" peace will take place.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[UK Girl]

I'm sure they do. They've been relying on US security for years, including thru NATO. If they would step up with their full funding of NATO, there would be NATO funding that could be used for Ukraine.

European do not heavily invest. in defense. At this conference and the one last week, the topic was ... We need to step up and find our own defense and stop relying on the US.

China, Russia, North Korea, fund their own defense. Is the US expected to find the rest of the world against these powers?

Many European countries do not see the value in funding defense. All countries have a choice how they spend their money. Can't blame the US, we find our defense at over a trillion dollars a year.
Moo

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/08/nato-summit-canada-commitment-00166648

....
"The Canadian public doesn’t really see the need,” said Philippe Lagassé, Barton chair at Canada’s Carleton University. “If forced to choose between defense spending, social programs or reducing taxes, defense would always come last. So there’s no political gain to meeting the pledge.”

Canada’s stance prompted a bipartisan group of 23 U.S. senators to take the exceedingly rare step of sending a letter to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau in May saying they were “concerned and profoundly disappointed that Canada’s most recent projection indicated that it will not reach its 2 percent commitment this decade.”

And the situation could get much worse if Trump is elected.

There has been no need for us to spend heavily in defence and even less for other countries in Europe. What you omit too say is that most battles we get in is helping America. Other countries don't always so..dont need to spend so much money when other things are more pressing. The problem is because of Putin's and Trumps actions Europe IS at risk...and it is not even all about Ukraine as such. It is the fact that our biggest supposed ally and part of Nato is now literally siding with the enemy against us all.

 

[JennieM]

European-led Ukraine air protection plan could halt Russian missile attacks​

Sky Shield proposal drawn up by military experts would be operated separately from Nato and deploy 120 fighter jets

European-led Ukraine air protection plan could halt Russian missile attacks

Sky Shield proposal drawn up by military experts would be operated separately from Nato and deploy 120 fighter jets

www.theguardian.com

 

[LovesPeace2]

Reuters - U.S. President Donald Trump's administration is planning to revoke temporary legal status for some 240,000 Ukrainians who fled the conflict with Russia, a senior Trump official and three sources familiar with the matter said, potentially putting them on a fast-track to deportation.The move, expected as soon as April, would be a stunning reversal of the welcome Ukrainians received under President Joe Biden's administration.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-plans-revoke-legal-status-ukrainians-who-fled-us-sources-say-2025-03-06/

Unreal .I am speechless at the B's trump has pulled in the last 45 days. The way trump is acting to allies and friends. Jmvho

 

[JennieM]

Zelensky thanks EU leaders for 'strong signal' of support
​

IMAGE SOURCE, REUTERS

After arriving at the summit, Ukraine's Zelensky thanks European leaders for the "strong support" they've shown Ukraine.

"During all this period, and last week, you stayed with us," he says.

"We are not alone, and these are not just words, we feel it.

"You made a strong signal to [the] Ukrainian people," he says, and they "appreciate" it.

[video at link]

US and Ukraine officials to meet next week to discuss peace plans, Zelensky says

The Ukrainian leader says he will travel to Saudi Arabia where talks on bringing a "lasting" peace will take place.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[SouthAussie]

Starmer says UK will play 'leading part' in security of Ukraine​

We can now bring you some comments from Prime Minister Keir Starmer, who is speaking to workers and the media at a defence factory in Liverpool.

He says the "security and defence of our country, of Europe and Ukraine, is absolutely in the upper mind of the world at the moment".

When asked about military support to Ukraine, he says what matters most "is a lasting peace" that brings an end to the war and ensures Ukraine is able to make its own decisions.

It is important that everyone focuses on this, he says, adding: "if there is a deal... we defend the deal."

He says the government must focus on what the potential security guarantees are, adding the "United Kingdom will play a leading part" in this.

"It has to be done in conjunction with the United States," he says firmly, as they are "intertwined" with defence and security.

US and Ukraine officials to meet next week to discuss peace plans, Zelensky says

The Ukrainian leader says he will travel to Saudi Arabia where talks on bringing a "lasting" peace will take place.

www.bbc.co.uk

I wonder how long it will take for Starmer to give up on the US. I know he is trying to hold the alliances together in the most diplomatic way possible ... but it may not be possible.

imo

 

[Simply Southern]

The thing is that was Trumps idea. Not ours. So basically the ones that Trump are protecting are going against what he himself has said would happen and yet we should trust them?

It was the US voter who voted in a president that promise to end the war in Ukraine. The president is living up to the promise. He clearly stated we would stop funding the Ukraine war. European countries have known since November, Trump was elected. They've had plenty of time to prepare.

If European countries want to continue the war in Ukraine, they will need to fund it.

It appears from the current meetings and the previous ones last week, there is little ACTION to committing immediate funds, providing military equipment, missiles, etc from stockpiles held in European countries. The US keeps the stockpile, we can pull from our stockpile quickly and push out missiles, Patriot defense system, and weaponry used in hand-to-hand combat.

If the European countries had funded their own stockpiles, it should be easy. All they have to do is start shipping from the stockpile directly to Ukraine. What does become clear, they either do not have a large stockpile or they are not willing the dip into the stockpile to send arms to Ukraine.

We have not failed our commitment to stand by our NATO allies. We will continue to stand by our NATO allies. Ukraine is not a NATO member. The US has said NO, just as the European country have the right to continue to fund the war.

Moo...

 

[UK Girl]

Zelensky thanks EU leaders for 'strong signal' of support​

​

IMAGE SOURCE, REUTERS

After arriving at the summit, Ukraine's Zelensky thanks European leaders for the "strong support" they've shown Ukraine.

"During all this period, and last week, you stayed with us," he says.

"We are not alone, and these are not just words, we feel it.

"You made a strong signal to [the] Ukrainian people," he says, and they "appreciate" it.

[video at link]

US and Ukraine officials to meet next week to discuss peace plans, Zelensky says

The Ukrainian leader says he will travel to Saudi Arabia where talks on bringing a "lasting" peace will take place.

www.bbc.co.uk

I hope he said Thank You fifty times.!

 

[UK Girl]

I wonder how long it will take for Starmer to give up on the US. I know he is trying to hold the alliances together in the most diplomatic way possible ... but it may not be possible.

imo

Labour has never had the best opinion of Trump tbh

 

[JennieM]

I hope he said Thank You fifty times.!

If he didn’t, I hope they throw a hissy fit and help Russia instead.

 

[UK Girl]

It was the US voter who voted in a president that promise to end the war in Ukraine. The president is living up to the promise. He clearly stated we would stop funding the Ukraine war. European countries have known since November, Trump was elected. They've had plenty of time to prepare.

If European countries want to continue the war in Ukraine, they will need to fund it.

It appears from the current meetings and the previous ones last week, there is little ACTION to committing immediate funds, providing military equipment, missiles, etc from stockpiles held in European countries. The US keeps the stockpile, we can pull from our stockpile quickly and push out missiles, Patriot defense system, and weaponry used in hand-to-hand combat.

If the European countries had funded their own stockpiles, it should be easy. All they have to do is start shipping from the stockpile directly to Ukraine. What does become clear, they either do not have a large stockpile or they are not willing the dip into the stockpile to send arms to Ukraine.

Moo...

Like I said Trump said Europe would be the peace keepers. Not the voters..or anyone else. Honestly I am confused. Much has not even come out about what has been said in the meetings so not sure how you come to the conclusion you have about committing funds, providing military equipment missiles etc. Also how do you know we have not funded our own stockpiles? You are stating a lot of things you actually seem to be guessing about.

 

[SouthAussie]

It was the US voter who voted in a president that promise to end the war in Ukraine. The president is living up to the promise. He clearly stated we would stop funding the Ukraine war. European countries have known since November, Trump was elected. They've had plenty of time to prepare.

If European countries want to continue the war in Ukraine, they will need to fund it.

It appears from the current meetings and the previous ones last week, there is little ACTION to committing immediate funds, providing military equipment, missiles, etc from stockpiles held in European countries. The US keeps the stockpile, we can pull from our stockpile quickly and push out missiles, Patriot defense system, and weaponry used in hand-to-hand combat.

If the European countries had funded their own stockpiles, it should be easy. All they have to do is start shipping from the stockpile directly to Ukraine. What does become clear, they either do not have a large stockpile or they are not willing the dip into the stockpile to send arms to Ukraine.

We have not failed our commitment to stand by our NATO allies. We will continue to stand by our NATO allies. Ukraine is not a NATO member. The US that's the way I can say no, just as the European country have the right to continue to fund the war.

Moo...

I truly think your posts are completely missing the main point. To where we have now progressed.
There were alliances. We were allies. We no longer seem to be allies.

It is not just about who gave how much money to who or what any more.

imo

 

[JennieM]

It was the US voter who voted in a president that promise to end the war in Ukraine. The president is living up to the promise. He clearly stated we would stop funding the Ukraine war. European countries have known since November, Trump was elected. They've had plenty of time to prepare.

If European countries want to continue the war in Ukraine, they will need to fund it.

It appears from the current meetings and the previous ones last week, there is little ACTION to committing immediate funds, providing military equipment, missiles, etc from stockpiles held in European countries. The US keeps the stockpile, we can pull from our stockpile quickly and push out missiles, Patriot defense system, and weaponry used in hand-to-hand combat.

If the European countries had funded their own stockpiles, it should be easy. All they have to do is start shipping from the stockpile directly to Ukraine. What does become clear, they either do not have a large stockpile or they are not willing the dip into the stockpile to send arms to Ukraine.

We have not failed our commitment to stand by our NATO allies. We will continue to stand by our NATO allies. Ukraine is not a NATO member. The US has said NO, just as the European country have the right to continue to fund the war.

Moo...

Your president is starting wars, not ending wars! He is threatening everyone! He wants to grab Greenland, he is fighting with Canada, Mexico, China, now Europe.

You voted a ww3 president and sorry you feel you need to defend him and his corrupt administration.

 

[Simply Southern]

I wonder how long it will take for Starmer to give up on the US. I know he is trying to hold the alliances together in the most diplomatic way possible ... but it may not be possible.

imo

Oh I don't think the UK is giving up on the US. Our military is one of the strongest in the world. UK has not fully funded their own defense. They need the US, that's what the arguments about. The European countries do not want to provide peacekeepers without a US backstop. The US has said no. The European countries are mad about it. They need to redirect their focus on their own funding for defense.

The European countries have partnered together. They have failed to partner with countries outside of their European sector. They are operating in a paradigm.

The US has developed relationship with allies in many parts of the world, other than Europe. The US has strong allies with Middle Eastern countries and Israel, both having strong military, both overfunding their own defense. They pay their own way. You're not reliant on another country to fund their defense.

I think the European countries are trying to run out the clock knowing the US will take the lead and negotiating a peace agreement. If they were truly committed, then open up their stockpile and start shipping immediately.
Moo....

 

[Simply Southern]

I truly think your posts are completely missing the main point. To where we have now progressed.
There were alliances. We were allies. We no longer seem to be allies.

It is not just about who gave how much money to who or what any more.

imo

I'm fully understand the point. The US has made the decision to no longer fund the Ukraine war. We have that right, we have no legal obligation to Ukraine.

It's irrelevant you gave what it just point. The focus now ... Are European countries going to step up and continue their support to fund the Ukraine war. They need to spend less time on what the US is not going to do and focus on what they are going to do?

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm fully understand the point. The US has made the decision to no longer fund the Ukraine war. We have that right, we have no legal obligation to Ukraine.

It's irrelevant you gave what it just point. The focus now ... Are European countries going to step up and continue their support to fund the Ukraine war. They need to spend less time on what the US is not going to do and focus on what they are going to do?

Have you not noticed that the EU is not asking for US funds any more, over the last week or so? Nor is it looking for US intelligence. I am not even sure if it is looking for a "backstop" of US security any more. Haven't heard about that in a few days.

What the focus should now be is ... what is Putin going to do about peace in Ukraine? Why do we not know what the US has discussed with Russia about peace in Ukraine? Why is our so-called ally not telling us?

imo

 

[LibraStarr]

At what point does willful ignorance become a choice? We have mountains of evidence, history, diplomacy, and basic facts laid out—and yet some people refuse to engage with it. They dismiss history when it’s inconvenient, ignore diplomacy when it contradicts their stance, and sidestep data that doesn’t fit their narrative.

Somewhere along the line, it stops being about debate and starts being about deliberate denial. And frankly, it’s exhausting. We can have our opinions, but we don’t get to rewrite reality to fit them.

 

[statt#1]

Democracy vs Communism, current battleground is, unfortunately, Ukraine. Cuban missile crisis. Vietnam. Iraq. Afghanistan. Global strategic chess moves.

It's easy for France, UK, all of Europe to scream for continued war while thousands die in Ukraine...let that escalate to the sons and daughters of Europe coming home in body bags, then that tune might change.

Trump represents the U.S. He is not of the warhawk ilk that in recent election was crushed in all branches of U.S. government.

The U.S. isn't abandoning Europe, not even close. The U.S. is calling to end the butchery in Ukraine.

Those who call for continued bloodshed, death, and destruction are baffling to me.

 

[Simply Southern]

Like I said Trump said Europe would be the peace keepers. Not the voters..or anyone else. Honestly I am confused. Much has not even come out about what has been said in the meetings so not sure how you come to the conclusion you have about committing funds, providing military equipment missiles etc. Also how do you know we have not funded our own stockpiles? You are stating a lot of things you actually seem to be guessing about.

No the US said, we will not send troops into Ukraine. He stated European countries CAN provide troops, if they choose to.

I'm based my comment on European countries not fully funding their defense on comments made by the UK and others at recent ,meeting. The meeting's last week and this week a focused on funding for defense. UK and France I've been front and center with their citizens that additional funding will be needed the fully protect their country.
If they fully funded their defenses, why are they not pulling out of their defense stock piles? They should have warehouses full of missiles and combat gear.

Maybe they have funded their stockpiles. Why are they not using them to help Ukraine? The recent 2 billion dollar UK Grant for missiles is for production. Mot even made the missiles yet. If they truly wanted to help why not purchase from a company that has missiles in stock? What donate lightweight missiles, not long range heavy duty missiles.
Moo

MSN

....
LONDON (Reuters) -British Prime Minister Keir Starmer on Sunday announced a new 1.6 billion pound ($2 billion) deal that would allow Ukraine to purchase 5,000 air-defence missiles using export finance.

Britain's Ministry of Defence said Thales will manufacture the lightweight-multirole missiles for Ukraine
.