Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #13

[LibraStarr]

Democracy vs Communism, current battleground is, unfortunately, Ukraine. Cuban missile crisis. Vietnam. Iraq. Afghanistan. Global strategic chess moves.

It's easy for France, UK, all of Europe to scream for continued war while thousands die in Ukraine...let that escalate to the sons and daughters of Europe coming home in body bags, then that tune might change.

Trump represents the U.S. He is not of the warhawk ilk that in recent election was crushed in all branches of U.S. government.

The U.S. isn't abandoning Europe, not even close. The U.S. is calling to end the butchery in Ukraine.

Those who call for continued bloodshed, death, and destruction are baffling to me.

If Ukraine gives in, then authoritarianism wins. Period.

This isn’t about ‘ending butchery’—it’s about letting an imperialist dictator erase a sovereign nation by force. If Ukraine falls, it sends a message that borders and democracy mean nothing if a stronger power decides otherwise.

And let’s drop the false equivalency—supporting Ukraine’s right to defend itself is not the same as ‘calling for bloodshed.’ The real question is: Do we stand against authoritarian aggression, or do we reward it? Because history shows us exactly what happens when we choose the latter.

IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Trump represents the U.S. He is not of the warhawk ilk that in recent election was crushed in all branches of U.S. government.

"US defence secretary Pete Hegseth said on Wednesday that the United States is "prepared" to go to war with China, following warnings from Beijing over rising trade tensions."

'We're prepared': US on China's 'ready for any type of war' warning as Donald Trump tariff row escalates - Times of India

US News: US Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth stated that the US is prepared for conflict with China amid escalating trade tensions. Tensions rose after President

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

 

[Simply Southern]

Also how do you know we have not funded our own stockpiles? You are stating a lot of things you actually seem to be guessing about.

They are admitting to the world and the press is reporting they are saying they have not fully funded their defense. They are saying they have relied on the US. It's coming from the European leaders.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/europes-options-paying-bolster-its-defence-readiness-2025-02-18/

BRUSSELS, March 4 (Reuters) - European Union leaders will discuss on Thursday how to finance a sharp increase in defence readiness to deter any possible future attack from Russia and become less dependent for security on the United States.
The European Commission on Tuesday proposed several ways to raise the funds that would add up to around 800 billion euros over several years. Below are the ideas put forward:

NEW JOINT EU BORROWING​

The EU could borrow 150 billion euros against the security of the EU budget to provide loans to governments for defence investment. The borrowing could be decided with qualified majority of EU governments, so no single country could block it.

 

[Simply Southern]

Your president is starting wars, not ending wars! He is threatening everyone! He wants to grab Greenland, he is fighting with Canada, Mexico, China, now Europe.

You voted a ww3 president and sorry you feel you need to defend him and his corrupt administration.

A tariff war to curtail illegal drugs, especially fentanyl to save American lives, is certainly different than a combat warfare.

Moo

 

[statt#1]

"US defence secretary Pete Hegseth said on Wednesday that the United States is "prepared" to go to war with China, following warnings from Beijing over rising trade tensions."

'We're prepared': US on China's 'ready for any type of war' warning as Donald Trump tariff row escalates - Times of India

US News: US Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth stated that the US is prepared for conflict with China amid escalating trade tensions. Tensions rose after President

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

Oh yes, truth...indeed we are prepared

 

[SouthAussie]

Oh yes, truth...indeed we are prepared

Not of the warhawk ilk? I would say that actively provoking China, then responding that the US is prepared to go to war with China exhibits a warhawk ilk.

Which was the point of my post.

imo

 

[Simply Southern]

"US defence secretary Pete Hegseth said on Wednesday that the United States is "prepared" to go to war with China, following warnings from Beijing over rising trade tensions."

'We're prepared': US on China's 'ready for any type of war' warning as Donald Trump tariff row escalates - Times of India

US News: US Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth stated that the US is prepared for conflict with China amid escalating trade tensions. Tensions rose after President

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

If China decides to attack the US, we will certainly engage. I don't think that's a fight they're willing to take to the battlefield.
The US stands ready and able to defend our country. We got weapons, lots of weapons. The US warehouse's as well as warehouses around the world full of weapons.

We are not afraid of China.
Moo

 

[statt#1]

If Ukraine gives in, then authoritarianism wins. Period.

This isn’t about ‘ending butchery’—it’s about letting an imperialist dictator erase a sovereign nation by force. If Ukraine falls, it sends a message that borders and democracy mean nothing if a stronger power decides otherwise.

And let’s drop the false equivalency—supporting Ukraine’s right to defend itself is not the same as ‘calling for bloodshed.’ The real question is: Do we stand against authoritarian aggression, or do we reward it? Because history shows us exactly what happens when we choose the latter.

IMO

The U.S. stood against aggression in Vietnam, and a host of other regional conflicts, since it's founding. And has stood with Europe and Ukraine. And has sought and achieved peace in regional conflicts all over the globe. It is time for peace in Ukraine. Warhawks call for war, their voices speak loudly, are easily recognized and heard.

 

[JennieM]

The U.S. stood against aggression in Vietnam, and a host of other regional conflicts, since its founding. And has stood with Europe and Ukraine. And has sought and achieved peace in regional conflicts all over the globe. It is time for peace in Ukraine. Warhawks call for war, their voices speak loudly, are easily recognized and heard.

You are not offering peace.

You are offering a temporary ceasefire in return of a money grab.

 

[LibraStarr]

The U.S. stood against aggression in Vietnam, and a host of other regional conflicts, since it's founding. And has stood with Europe and Ukraine. And has sought and achieved peace in regional conflicts all over the globe. It is time for peace in Ukraine. Warhawks call for war, their voices speak loudly, are easily recognized and heard.

Saying ‘it’s time for peace’ means nothing if you don’t explain what that peace looks like. Ukraine didn’t start this war—Russia did. So how does peace happen? If it’s by negotiation, what does Ukraine have to give up? Their land? Their sovereignty? Their democracy?

Because if ‘peace’ means Ukraine surrendering to Russia’s demands, then let’s be honest: that’s not peace, that’s submission. And history tells us exactly where that road leads.

IMO

 

[JennieM]

‘Watershed moment’: EU leaders close to agreeing €800bn defence plan

Show of unity over Ukraine may be hampered by Hungary’s Viktor Orbán but consensus has built on need for spending

‘Watershed moment’: EU leaders agree plan for huge rise in defence spending

Leaders endorse Ursula von der Leyen proposal as French president calls Vladimir Putin ‘an imperialist who seeks to rewrite history’

www.theguardian.com

 

[statt#1]

Not of the warhawk ilk? I would say that actively provoking China, then responding that the US is prepared to go to war with China exhibits a warhawk ilk.

Which was the point of my post.

imo

The U.S. is prepared for war. Our nation is quite adept at the art of war. I deal in reality, and find it highly unlikely a war with China is on the doorstep.

Is Europe prepared for war? Yes indeed. Is the U.S an ally? Yes indeed. Are not U.S nukes, armaments and troops stationed throughout Europe? Paid for by the U.S. taxpayer....like me, btw. The alternative argument, from my vantage point, isn't realistic.

 

[SouthAussie]

You are not offering peace.

You are offering a temporary ceasefire in return of a money grab.

The US is not even offering a temporary ceasefire. It is Zelenskyy who has verbalised that. The US is only interested in Ukraine's minerals. That's it.

imo

Zelensky offers partial ceasefire with Russia to restart peace talks

 

[statt#1]

You are not offering peace.

You are offering a temporary ceasefire in return of a money grab.

Speculative.

 

[statt#1]

Saying ‘it’s time for peace’ means nothing if you don’t explain what that peace looks like. Ukraine didn’t start this war—Russia did. So how does peace happen? If it’s by negotiation, what does Ukraine have to give up? Their land? Their sovereignty? Their democracy?

Because if ‘peace’ means Ukraine surrendering to Russia’s demands, then let’s be honest: that’s not peace, that’s submission. And history tells us exactly where that road leads.

IMO

Actually, an argument exists that western advancement, NATO, advancement toward Russia played a huge part in Putin's move, ignore or deny if you wish.

 

[SouthAussie]

Is the U.S an ally? Yes indeed.

I am afraid that is under serious reconsideration at the moment. No matter how much some try to push the opposite.
"Don't give Ukraine any intelligence" says Trump. As if.

imo

 

[LeeAnnB]

US to deport Ukrainians. More peace offerings?

 

[statt#1]

The US is not even offering a temporary ceasefire. It is Zelenskyy who has verbalised that. The US is only interested in Ukraine's minerals. That's it.

imo

Zelensky offers partial ceasefire with Russia to restart peace talks

To me this is narrow, and quite offensive, given the reality of U.S. support.

 

[LovesPeace2]

You are not offering peace.

You are offering a temporary ceasefire in return of a money grab.

Yep the USA just wants the minerals it's not about ending a war it's about getting the minerals the USA needs. I as a Ukrainian Canadian am hoping we cut off the electricity we send to the USA we need to stop sending our minerals and oil there to. Tbh most Canadians no longer see the USA as a Allie we are now unfriendly neighbours jmvho

 

[SouthAussie]

To me this is narrow, and quite offensive, given the reality of U.S. support.

Sorry, no offense intended. Just living in the reality of what is happening today, not yesterday.

imo