Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #13

[justtrish]

Secretary Hegseth was responding to the statement by China's representative that stated that China was prepared to go to war with tariffs or any other issue. (paraphrased) Hegseth was responding in kind. The Trump administration isn't planning to go to war with China or anyone else. All taken out of context.

Seems that is the problem. All taken out of context. MANY things in the last 2 months being reported by MSM in the US. Take it out of context and fit it to a narrative.

IMO

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

This is pure speculation on my part, but my guess is that the “minerals deal” was perhaps more than a “minerals deal”.

I think it might have been a carefully crafted, carefully worded agreement intended to enable the US to put “boots in the ground” in Ukraine (even if it would be only be a mix of corporate/partnership, scientific, advisor, worker, and a few military “boots”.

Any attack by Russia or separatist forces on US personnel (of whatever kind) would be justification for a US military response. I’m guessing that it was intended that many of the initial “mineral extraction” operations would have been located in the eastern part of Ukraine.

Again, I have no knowledge that this is what the minerals deal was all about. It’s pure speculation.

But for those who automatically assume that the evil US was trying to extort or exploit Ukraine, Ukraine’s minerals are not just sitting there. Look it up. Only a small percentage of Ukraine’s mineral resources are being mined. It is an untapped resource that Ukraine would eventually like to use to finance their country. It is apparently an extremely difficult and extremely expensive undertaking to try to extract these minerals.

From what I have read, there currently is ZERO rare earth metals mining occurring in Ukraine. This was not some deal to allow to the US to pay pennies on the dollar to rip off Ukraine. I think it may have been an effort to provide security for Ukraine without starting WW III - and a means of investing billions into Ukraine’s economy to help them rebuild. It was a partnership. If I’m right about an ulterior motive existing for the agreement, it may no longer be a realistic approach, as everybody now know its purpose

I think the minerals agreement might have been the only ways Zelensky was ever going to be able to get US “boots on the ground”, - and the only way the US could legitimately provide any border area security without starting a direct US (and therefore EU) war with Russia. It appears that It wasn’t enough for Zelensky. Just a possibility

Pure speculation, all jmo

Thank you for this post and well stated.

I went down the rabbit hole of the Ukraine mineral deal for hours, trying to understand what it’s all about. I didn’t have a clue. I realized quickly that it wasn’t just a case of dig, dig, dig and how complicated it actually is.

I agree with your speculation. imo

 

[LovesPeace2]

On the contrary, the President is trying to end a war that has been going on for four years and he was elected by a mandate of the people to stop funding the war between Ukraine and Russia. He is also not "threatening" Canada, Mexico and China, he is imposing tariffs on these trade partners that will level the playing field and address their part in the influx of deadly drugs that are killing Americans at high numbers. The American people voted for a President and administration that would prevent WWIII and that's exactly what they are doing by trying to negotiate an end to the war between Ukraine and Russia. I don't think anyone here feels the need to defend him, he is merely carrying out the mandate he was given by the electorate. With regard to your accusations of corruption in the current administration, I have no idea what you are talking about. The only corruption I see is the past administration where Biden had to pardon his whole family pretty much for the corruption that has been going on for years going back to when he was a senator in the U.S. Congress.

I dunno I'm Canadian and I find him threatening his governor Trudeau and making us his 51 st state doesn't sound to friendly we Canadians take that as a threat .Trump repeated those words to Trudeau yesterday in the pH call

Canada Is "Angry" As Trump Again Calls Trudeau "Governor" Of 51st US State

US President Donald Trump has once called Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau as the "Governor", a nod to his claim that America's northern neighbor would be better off as it's 51st state.

www.ndtv.com

 

[UK Girl]

@Zapoleon , I’m not sure “it’s clearly better for Ukraine to try and hold out for the best possible peace deal..”

As much as we would all like for Ukraine to get Crimea and Donbas back, who and how do you think that can possibly be achieved?

That is the crux of the current disagreement with the US (and the EU, really - though both sides have been careful with PR). Everybody agrees how wrong and evil Russia and Putin are. No one is disputing the crimes they have committed. This was and is a horror. It’s precisely what all those leaders said it was back in 2022 - when they did nothing but talk and virtue signal. It’s easy to “strongly condemn”. It’s easy to say: “they will be held accountable”.

But the US is not going to start a war with Russia in order to recover Crimea and Donbas for Ukraine. And although the UK and France and EU talks big, neither are they.

Not only are UK, France, EU and NATO forces too weak, but nobody in UK, France, EU, NATO, or US has the appetite for WW III or a long drawn out conflict (called a peace keeping effort) like the US was involved in in Korea and Vietnam and Afghanistan. It’s completely unrealistic. Everybody is vilifying the US for not doing something they themselves aren’t willing to do.

It’s fine for Zelensky to demand a genuine guaranteed security or a genuine guaranteed security backstop all he wants. The fact is that no such thing presently even exists.

If it ever existed it was ten, and then three years ago when Biden, the US, the UK, France, the EU, and many other nations refused to act.

Jmo

You do know that Europe was also involved in the peacekeeping effort in Afghanistan?

How did we refuse to act?? it was made plain if we went in that WW3 would start. To get around that EUROPE, America and other countries provided most things that they needed! Incidentally you say we are too work and yet Russia could not beat Ukraine in three years. Three years and they thought it would be over in days and so..Russia is not all that!

 

[UK Girl]

On the contrary, the President is trying to end a war that has been going on for four years and he was elected by a mandate of the people to stop funding the war between Ukraine and Russia. He is also not "threatening" Canada, Mexico and China, he is imposing tariffs on these trade partners that will level the playing field and address their part in the influx of deadly drugs that are killing Americans at high numbers. The American people voted for a President and administration that would prevent WWIII and that's exactly what they are doing by trying to negotiate an end to the war between Ukraine and Russia. I don't think anyone here feels the need to defend him, he is merely carrying out the mandate he was given by the electorate. With regard to your accusations of corruption in the current administration, I have no idea what you are talking about. The only corruption I see is the past administration where Biden had to pardon his whole family pretty much for the corruption that has been going on for years going back to when he was a senator in the U.S. Congress.

Btw the war started in 2022. It is now 2025

 

[Marantz4250b]

I wonder how long it will take for Starmer to give up on the US. I know he is trying to hold the alliances together in the most diplomatic way possible ... but it may not be possible.

imo

To be quite honest, it seems that the only thing to do is to completely ignore the USA and have nothing to do with them until after the next election. The damage Trump will cause in the interim will be immense, though.

 

[Simply Southern]

Everyday that passes, there is less and less US headline News of Ukraine. Yes an article or two, but it's quickly moving further down front page news. Moo

 

[Deleted member 235284]

I’m not sure “it’s clearly better for Ukraine to try and hold out for the best possible peace deal..

Oh yeah, there is no way they are getting Crimea and Donbas back. That is never going to happen.

I was talking more about getting clad iron security guarantees from EU nations/USA, some ideas being floated about the now but concrete offers still to be made my Europe.

I dunno I think there is strong will and support in nations like France and The UK to deploy a peacekeeping force.

I mean, it's debatable how weak such forces would be. Because Russia isn't exactly in the strongest position. Russia cannot match the economic and industrial capacity of the EU. So its more fool them if they want to take on a much tougher force when for the last few years they have been bogged down by Ukraine supported by western aid.

 

[Simply Southern]

Finally a sensible decision.

Zelenskyy joins EU leaders at defence summit as Russia accuses France of wanting Ukraine war to continue – Europe live

Leaders gather to discuss €800bn plan to boost military capacity as Kremlin says Macron’s comments were ‘extremely confrontational’

www.theguardian.com

Fox News’ senior White House correspondent is reporting that the meeting between Ukraine and the US is due to take place on Tuesday next week.

Jacqui Heinrich posted on X: “Rubio, Witkoff, Waltz headed to Riyadh on Tuesday to meet with Ukrainians, including Yermak.”

 

[Deleted member 235284]

To be quite honest, it seems that the only thing to do is to completely ignore the USA and have nothing to do with them until after the next election. The damage Trump will cause in the interim will be immense, though.

The problem with that of course is what if Vance wins the next election? Or maybe a Democrat does win but we simply get another MAGA republican President again with 4 or 8 years.

Makes allies really have to view them as completely unreliable from now on.

 

[LovesPeace2]

The start of the summit

.

 

[Stella123]

Also from your link

"Former president Petro Poroshenko said he had held talks with US representatives but added that he opposed Trump’s demands for wartime elections. Poroshenko – who lost to Zelenskyy in the 2019 presidential vote – said a poll should only be held once martial law ends."

Even Zelensky's opposition are loyal to him and Ukraine.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

It's about trying to achieve peace. We didn't have a hissy fit. Trump's been carrying the same message for a year now. He plans to end the war in Ukraine, to stop the killing.

He met with the president of France and the PM of UK prior to Ukraine coming to the US. We made it real clear he was no longer going to fund the war.

The message has not changed. I guess folks just didn't believe him.,
Moo

Is he planning on ending the war by handing Ukraine to Russia on a platter?

 

[Simply Southern]

Oh yeah, there is no way they are getting Crimea and Donbas back. That is never going to happen.

I was talking more about getting clad iron security guarantees from EU nations/USA, some ideas being floated about the now but concrete offers still to be made my Europe.

I dunno I think there is strong will and support in nations like France and The UK to deploy a peacekeeping force.

I mean, it's debatable how weak such forces would be. Because Russia isn't exactly in the strongest position. Russia cannot match the economic and industrial capacity of the EU. So its more fool them if they want to take on a much tougher force when for the last few years they have been bogged down by Ukraine supported by western aid.

Peacekeeping forces are deploying by the UN. Zelensky has refused UN peacekeepers. He has been insistent for military support. Peacekeeping is not military support. Peacekeepers will not be on the front line with weapons.

He wants to bring the us into his war. I can understand the European nations wanting to defend Ukraine. If Russia plows through Ukraine, they'll be at the back door of European country. They have a vested interest to protect Ukraine.

We have given generously and so have others. Russia is not going to back down. Zelensky will not back down as long as he has military and financial support. The US made the decision that we are no longer going to support military efforts in Ukraine. He doesn't like it. He derailed a press conference last week, to try to force Donald Trump into military support. He's been to two meetings in less than 7 days and traveling all over Europe, soliciting financial and military support.

I most important question.... How far will European countries go to protect Ukraine?

Are European countries willing to go to war with Russia? If I lived in Europe, I'd be more concerned about going to war with Russia, then what's happening in the US.

Moo

 

[Sundog]

I just want to clarify. If the US wants tariffs, fair enough.

The diplomatic way to go about that is to call a meeting with the relative party (in this case, China) and tell them "look this is killing us, your products are flooding our country, our manufacturing is down the gurgler, we don't seem to be able to stop our companies from coming to you for cheap production, we need to work out some different kind of agreement".

The undiplomatic way is to announce to the press "tariffs, tariffs, tariffs, if they don't like we are prepared to go to war".

imo

But that's not how it happened. President Xi has known for some time that if Trump was re-elected there would be new tariffs imposed on th PRC. So this was no surprise to the Chinese government. And Secretary Hegseth was responding to the PRC spokesperson who stated publicly this week that China was prepared to go to war with tariffs, or for any other kind of war. Secretary Hegseth simply replied, so are we (i.e. the U.S.). Nothing undiplomatic about it if it is all placed in context of what was said by each side. Just some rattling of the cages from both sides, as per usual.

 

[Stella123]

Finally a sensible me.

Zelenskyy joins EU leaders at defence summit as Russia accuses France of wanting Ukraine war to continue – Europe live

Leaders gather to discuss €800bn plan to boost military capacity as Kremlin says Macron’s comments were ‘extremely confrontational’

www.theguardian.com

Fox News’ senior White House correspondent is reporting that the meeting between Ukraine and the US is due to take place on Tuesday next week.

Jacqui Heinrich posted on X: “Rubio, Witkoff, Waltz headed to Riyadh on Tuesday to meet with Ukrainians, including Yermak.”

I can't see where it says it's arranged for next Tuesday with US? It says

"Ukraine hopes for 'meaningful meeting' with US next week, Zelenskyy says
Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy has just posted a lengthy update on his diplomatic talks today on the margins of the EU summit in Brussels, in which he revealed he hoped to have “a meaningful meeting” with the US next week as the two sides continue to work on next steps for Ukraine."

 

[Cryptic]

Whatever it was, the same method was not used to figure out the European contribution (by Trump).

He somehow made $174bn into $350bn from the US.
And $259bn into $100bn from Europe.

And he forgot to deduct from the US figure the ROI (return on investment) that the US received in jobs creation and resulting taxes on wages, and economic improvement, due to the growth in the US munitions industry.

imo

Thank you for reinforcing my point that the dollar value of aid to Ukraine can be spun many different ways by a variety of people for a variety of motivations.

 

[Simply Southern]

I can't see where it says it's arranged for next Tuesday with US? It says

"Ukraine hopes for 'meaningful meeting' with US next week, Zelenskyy says
Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy has just posted a lengthy update on his diplomatic talks today on the margins of the EU summit in Brussels, in which he revealed he hoped to have “a meaningful meeting” with the US next week as the two sides continue to work on next steps for Ukraine."

If you scroll down the page, it's below the graft showing nuclear weapons by country. I did a copy paste from the statement. They don't have a separate link for each article. It's the daily blog....

 

[Sundog]

As I said ... not a problem with tariffs. It is the way a country goes about negotiating them. The US is not negotiating, it is strong arming and not discussing with the relevant countries, which is provocative.

Whoever would have thought a mild-mannered country like Canada would have felt so provoked - that is how harsh the US non-diplomacy currently is.

imo

There is no love lost between the current PM of Canada and the current Pres of the U.S. Both sides have been pretty aggressive and insulting against the other. I think when Canada finally holds it elections and gets Trudeau out of there, then relationships will improve between the two countries.

 

[Stella123]

If you scroll down the page, it's below the graft showing nuclear weapons by country. I did a copy paste from the statement. They don't have a separate link for each article. It's the daily blog....

It seems a very small, hidden away, announcement and nothing in MSM as yet.