Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #14

[Snoopster]

Just a reminder

1939: USSR invades Poland (with Nazi Germany).
1939: USSR invades Finland (Winter War).
1940: USSR annexes Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania.
1956: USSR invades Hungary.
1968: USSR invades Czechoslovakia.
1979: USSR invades Afghanistan.
1992: Russia intervenes militarily in Moldova (Transnistria).
1994: Russia invades Chechnya.
1999: Russia invades Chechnya again.
2008: Russia invades Georgia.
2014: Russia annexes Crimea and invades eastern Ukraine.
2015: Russia intervenes militarily in Syria.
2022: Russia launches full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

Yet the current US admin (plus Elon, who wasn't elected) take offense at Ukraine. (Elon slammed Mark Kelly, who went to Ukraine to understand things on the ground.) We all know who the bully is. It's Russia. They are the invader. And the USA is siding with Russia...the invader. Apparently the USA is fine with countries invading democratic countries.
I wonder why this is? I truly don't understand.

And I wonder why so many Americans seem to be ok with that. What happened to being the 'most democratic nation in the world' and being the 'defender of democracy'? I'm just really confused right now. I just don't get it. Did the USA change their interest in democracy?

 

[Stella123]

• Howard Buffett's foundation has given $520 million to Ukraine in humanitarian aid.
• The philanthropist warns the US will make a historic blunder if it fails to support Ukraine's war effort.

Warren Buffett's son Howard has given $500M to Ukraine — he warns the US is making a historic mistake by pulling its support

Howard Buffett's foundation, largely funded by his father Warren Buffett's contributions, has given $500 million in humanitarian aid to Ukraine.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[UK Girl]

Pretty Pathetic Europe hasn't stepped up to fund it's own defense and even to this day relies on the United States taxpayer to do so.

Lies. Just because Trump says that it does not mean it is true! Incidentally most of Europe did not need to before Ukraine got illegally invaded by Trumps chums.

 

[Fabled Automatic]

Did the USA change their interest in democracy?

Yes.

Have you seen any of those interviews of Trump supporters who clearly state they would rather live under dictator Trump than a democrat democracy?

Or "I'd rather be Russian than a Democrat"

Source

74 percent of Republicans say it’s fine for Trump to be dictator for a day

 

[Stella123]

Edit - sorry this is a year old! I thought it was recent.

"Buffett told Business Insider, "There are very few people in the world that could step up" and do what Zelenskyy's done. "I think he's a pretty amazing guy," he said."

"The guy's got to be worn out," Buffett said of Zelenskyy. "I don't know when he sleeps. He just is constantly going. He's been through two years of war, which is a living hell, and he's dealing with it every single day."

"He's got to deal with each ministry and keep them focused. He's got to keep the economy working. He's got to be engaged on the military side. So to me, he's somebody who has stepped up and done a job that I think very few people could do," said Buffett.

"I don't think anybody could have done a better job," he said, observing that "it's an incredible force that he's up against."

Warren Buffett's son Howard has given $500M to Ukraine — he warns the US is making a historic mistake by pulling its support

Howard Buffett's foundation, largely funded by his father Warren Buffett's contributions, has given $500 million in humanitarian aid to Ukraine.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[keek]

Yes.

Have you seen any of those interviews of Trump supporters who clearly state they would rather live under dictator Trump than a democrat democracy?

View attachment 569826
Source

They're out there, cellar dwellers till now.

 

[PommyMommy]

New defense packages, strengthened air defense, and even more investments in our defense industry. Over the past few weeks, European countries have made dozens of decisions to increase support for Ukraine.

Strong positions on the frontline and strong diplomacy must work together to achieve a just and lasting peace. Under U.S. leadership and in cooperation with all of Europe, this is absolutely achievable. Peace is our shared goal.

We are grateful to all partners who, together with Ukraine, bring peace closer for all our people every day!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899166539028349054

 

[UK Girl]

I'll tell you what I suggest...Take Trump's lead and negotiate a settlement to end the war.

Otherwise, Europe gets to 1. Fund it 2. Supply it 3. Own it.

I have a feeling the U.S. isn't writing 50 billion dollar checks anymore.

You mean Ukraine should just roll over on their backs and give in? Whilst Trump and Russia laugh?

 

[PommyMommy]

I had a good meeting with Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia Mohammed bin Salman. I am grateful for his wise perspective on global affairs and support for Ukraine. It was especially important to hear words of confidence in Ukraine’s future.

We discussed all key issues on the agenda—both bilateral matters and cooperation with other partners. I acknowledged the Crown Prince’s efforts in bringing true peace closer. Saudi Arabia provides a crucial platform for diplomacy, and we appreciate this.

The Ukrainian delegation remains in Jeddah to work with the U.S. team on Tuesday, March 11, and we hope for practical outcomes. Ukraine’s position in these talks will be fully constructive.

With the Crown Prince, we had a detailed discussion on the steps and conditions needed to end the war and secure a reliable and lasting peace. I specifically emphasized the issue of the release of prisoners and the return of our children, which could become a key step in building trust in diplomatic efforts. A significant part of the discussion was dedicated to the formats of security guarantees.

We appreciate Saudi Arabia’s readiness to expand economic cooperation and invest in Ukraine. We discussed key sectors for investment, starting with security, energy, and infrastructure. We share a common vision for economic development and interaction, particularly regarding Ukraine’s reconstruction.

The Crown Prince also shared Saudi Arabia’s ambitious economic strategy, and we wish our partners success. We are ready to collaborate and are confident that stronger ties between our nations and regions will benefit both our peoples and the world.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899237896055615605

 

[keek]

You mean Ukraine should just roll over on their backs and give in? Whilst Trump and Russia laugh?

It's easier to not think about anything hard when it should be a no brainer as a free person, but.

 

[Fabled Automatic]

I'll tell you what I suggest...Take Trump's lead and negotiate a settlement to end the war.

Otherwise, Europe gets to 1. Fund it 2. Supply it 3. Own it.

I have a feeling the U.S. isn't writing 50 billion dollar checks anymore.

Remember when Trump said he was going to cut off Ukraine and wash his hands of it? But then when Zelenskyy refused his last (crappy) deal and turned to Europe, Trump doubled down and said there will be no deal without his involvement. Why did Trump do that?

He needs to put his money where his mouth is and walk away already, just like he said he would. Then Zelenskyy can work on ending the war with serious leaders who actually care about freedom and democracy.

 

[UK Girl]

And how expansive do you wish this war to become?

So basically Ukraine should give in for that reason? and Russia are awarded and not punished?

 

[Missing Susan]

So, by simple logic, if Kelly is a traitor for visiting Ukraine, that means that the US now considers Russia and ally.

I'm glad they've dropped the political theater and stopped pretending they're not in bed with Russia and are just being upfront about it. Better we know who we're dealing with.

I'm pretty sure your post has transgressed some rules of logic.

 

[PommyMommy]

Trump says Russia "doesn't have the cards" in peace talks with Ukraine.

Neither Ukraine nor Russia "has the cards" in potential peace negotiations, U.S. President Donald Trump told journalists on March 10 ahead of talks between the U.S. and Ukraine in Saudi Arabia. "I say they (Ukraine) don't have the cards. Nobody really has the cards. Russia doesn't have the cards," he said. Trump's recent statement contradicts his previous ones. On Feb. 20, Trump said that Russia held "the cards" in any peace talks with Ukraine as it occupies a significant part of Ukrainian territory.https://kyivindependent.com/nobody-really-has-cards-in-potential-peace-talks-between-russia-ukraine-trump-says/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899192653960667349

UK to host virtual summit on Ukraine on March 15 as peacekeeping plans advance.

Ongoing diplomatic and military talks between the U.K. and France aim to outline the structure and responsibilities of the proposed peacekeeping force.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899232032598917126

"If it comes to the point where a European presence is needed for a ceasefire or peace agreement to be reached (in Ukraine), then Denmark is in principle prepared for that," Foreign Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen said.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899244448200134762

 

[Fabled Automatic]

I'm pretty sure your post has transgressed some rules of logic.

How?

There are two countries involved in conflict. Country A and country B. Kelly visits country A. Musk calls Kelly a traitor for visiting country A.

Traitor is defined as:

a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc.

In this example, country A is Ukraine and country B is Russia.

Therefore Musk is saying Kelly betrayed a friend, country B. Musk is saying that Russia is a friend of the US.

Edit: Even if Musk is saying Kelly betrayed the US, that infers that Musk (and Trump) consider Russia a friend of the US.

 

[Snoopster]

I'm pretty sure your post has transgressed some rules of logic.

How so? I'm curious.

 

[PommyMommy]

Geneva Experts Reveal Ceasefire Plan for Ukraine—But Will Putin Play Along?

A group of experts from the Geneva Centre for Security Policy has released a 31-page document outlining a technical roadmap for enforcing a ceasefire along the 1,200 km front line in Russia’s war against Ukraine.

The New York Times reports that the document, originally circulated confidentially in February among U.S., Russian, and Ukrainian foreign policy experts, proposes:

• A 10-km-wide buffer zone patrolled by 5,000 civilians and police
• Deployment of 10,000 foreign troops under a UN mandate for security
• International observers to monitor ceasefire violations and heavy weapon withdrawals
• A joint commission of Ukrainian and Russian military representatives to negotiate prisoner exchanges, demining, and humanitarian corridors

The biggest obstacle? Putin’s willingness to comply. Experts doubt the Kremlin’s commitment to respecting a ceasefire, raising concerns about its feasibility.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899148243931730242

 

[keek]

How?

There are two countries involved in conflict. Country A and country B. Kelly visits country A. Musk calls Kelly a traitor for visiting country A.

Traitor is defined as:


In this example, country A is Ukraine and country B is Russia.

Therefore Musk is saying Kelly betrayed a friend, country B. Musk is saying that Russia is a friend of the US.

Edit: Even if Musk is saying Kelly betrayed the US, that infers that Musk (and Trump) consider Russia a friend of the US.

Yes, it's clear. Traitor to who? Kelly is American, he went to Ukraine in support. Think m made a big slip of the tongue orrr what. Ha. Going to RUSSIA in support is traitor. We have Americans in and have had for longggg time in Russian penal prisons.. as TRAITORS per Russia. Best you did write the definition of traitor .

 

[branmuffin]

‘Nato’s support is unwavering’​

The secretary-general of Nato pledged the military alliance’s “unwavering” support for Ukraine at a meeting in Sarajevo on Monday.

“Nato remains firmly committed to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of [Ukraine],” Mark Rutte wrote in a post on X. “Political leadership is key to further progress and stability. Nato’s support is unwavering.”

"

Rubio: both sides must make concessions​

Marco Rubio at the royal palace in Jeddah with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman
SAUL LOEB/POOL/AFP/GETTY IMAGES
Marco Rubio, the US secretary of state, has met Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, the de facto ruler of Saudi Arabia, in Jeddah.

Earlier on the flight from the US, Rubio insisted that both Ukraine and Russia would need to make concessions to reach a ceasefire deal.

“I think both sides need to come to an understanding that there’s no military solution to this situation,” Rubio told reporters.

“The Russians can’t conquer all of Ukraine, and obviously it’ll be very difficult for Ukraine in any reasonable time period to sort of force the Russians back all the way to where they were in 2014.”

He added that the US had yet to determine what Russia was willing to concede. “We don’t know how far apart they truly are,” he said.

"Russia trying to disrupt Moldova, Macron says​

Moldova is facing increasingly blatant Russian attempts to destabilise the country, President Macron of France has said.

The government of Moldova, which shares a border with Ukraine, hopes to join the European Union by 2030.

During a press conference alongside his Moldovan counterpart, Maia Sandu, Macron said: “Moldova, whose airspace is regularly violated by Russian drones and missiles, also has to contend with increasingly uninhibited Russian attempts at destabilisation, targeting your country’s democratic institutions in particular.”"



Based on that Rubio's comment, these talks might just not achieve anything ..... JMO Moldova is right next to Ukraine. This is how Russia started in Ukraine I seem to remember - Russian infiltration to destabilise things MOO

Zelensky to meet Saudi crown prince before US talks — as it happened

Kyiv is expected to propose a sea and air truce with Russia after Putin’s forces retook three settlements in Kursk over the weekend

www.thetimes.com

Putin isn't about to concede anything. We all know that. He's been saying for years that Ukraine, especially Crimea, is part of Russia. That is selective reasoning, especially after viewing the video I presented a couple of days ago. When and where do you draw the line? The British Empire went all the way to the New World as well as India, the East and West Indies, Africa, Australia, New Zealand, etc. The Roman Empire went all the way from England to the Caucasus and Africa. During the reign of Catherine the Great, Russia extended to modern day Germany and Poland. I think everyone needs to remember that adage: give them an inch and they will take a mile. No concessions for Putin.

 

[Stella123]

Trump says Russia "doesn't have the cards" in peace talks with Ukraine.

Neither Ukraine nor Russia "has the cards" in potential peace negotiations, U.S. President Donald Trump told journalists on March 10 ahead of talks between the U.S. and Ukraine in Saudi Arabia. "I say they (Ukraine) don't have the cards. Nobody really has the cards. Russia doesn't have the cards," he said. Trump's recent statement contradicts his previous ones. On Feb. 20, Trump said that Russia held "the cards" in any peace talks with Ukraine as it occupies a significant part of Ukrainian territory.https://kyivindependent.com/nobody-really-has-cards-in-potential-peace-talks-between-russia-ukraine-trump-says/

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899192653960667349

UK to host virtual summit on Ukraine on March 15 as peacekeeping plans advance.

Ongoing diplomatic and military talks between the U.K. and France aim to outline the structure and responsibilities of the proposed peacekeeping force.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899232032598917126

"If it comes to the point where a European presence is needed for a ceasefire or peace agreement to be reached (in Ukraine), then Denmark is in principle prepared for that," Foreign Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen said.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899244448200134762

He is starting to sound like he has dementia IMO He is stuck on the word "cards" repeatedly and either keeps changing his mind or doesn't know what he's talking about. Does he think he's in a 1930s gangster movie? It's almost a spoof! Except Trump said it. MOO