Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #14

[Fairy1]

I was thinking about this line of reasoning and my opinion is this. I just don't think Russia is going to point blank turn around, leave Ukraine and lay down their arms. It's simply an unrealistic hope. So what are the alternatives? Fight! Well, that avenue of thought means war. And with the U.S. pulling back from that pathway, and with the desire to defeat Russia so strong, then there are a few things that will need to be sourced elsewhere. Billions of dollars, likely tens of billions, or even hundreds of billions, will be required. Armaments of all sorts, from drones, missiles, tanks, artillery, ammo, missiles, and a whole litany of supporting supplies and equipment, intelligence, and most tragic....men and women to commit to battle. All this for an extended period, likely years. In the event it would touch off a world war, then other factors, many very dire, arise.

The other avenue of thought is to come to the table and hammer out a deal for peace.

I don't believe it has ever been Ukraine's desire to "defeat" Russia. They have simply and valiantly attempted to defend and protect their country and people from the aggressor. America would never simply give up and cede any of our land under such circumstances. And we would be grateful for any support from our allies, as Ukraine has been.

 

[UK Girl]

I would suggest the same things I’ve been suggesting throughout the threads. Although others have expressed it much better. The following is all in my humble opinion.

1. The mineral deal is mutually beneficial in many ways. It would put Americans on the ground in Ukraine and that would offer a level of security. If Russia harms an American surely we would come to their defense.

2. Somebody needs to keep an open door with Russia. President Z wants the person acting on his behalf to publicly call out Russia. He did this with President Trump, the Pope and likely others. I’ve seen his bullet point plan and that was part of it. That just doesn’t work if you are trying to keep an open door.

3. I don’t want to see the United States fund an endless war. And Ukraine doesn’t have an unlimited amount of people to sustain it forever.

4. NATO countries can’t join in the fight. This would be seen as an act of aggression and wouldn’t end well.

5. I would be happy to see Europe take the bull by the horns and come up with a peaceful solution. Maybe they could do the mineral deal.

6. We need to understand the history and what got us to this point.

Trump is insisting he does the deal. Why?? As he says America have pulled out and you have that beautiful Ocean between you and Ukraine is "Our neighbour".

 

[UK Girl]

Totally, for a LONG time, horrifying as we see.

I have thought that for a long time tbh. He often gets things mixed up when he is speaking.

 

[HmmMysterious]

I would be open to having Europe defeat Russia.

And then I bet Trump will take all the credit for it and cry for his Nobel Peace Prize.

 

[sunshineray]

Senator Mark Kelly, an ex-Navy combat pilot/astronaut, visited Ukraine touring military hospitals, chatted with Red Cross workers and giving support for the victims of Russian agression, on X.

Musk replied to the Senator, "You are a traitor".

To which Senator Kelly replied,

“Traitor? Elon, if you don’t understand that defending freedom is a basic tenet of what makes America great and keeps us safe, maybe you should leave it to those of us who do.”

A very tame and dignified answer, IMO.

A Polish offical on X , who dared to say if Starlinks (which the Polish government helps fund for Ukraine) was cut off or service compromised, they would look elsewhere for a provider.

Musk told him, "Be quiet, small man...".

Sec. of State Marco Rubio, who in the not-so-distant past has numerous times called Putin a war criminal and said Putin wanted to set up a puppet government in Ukraine, then responded,

"And say thank you because without Starlink Ukraine would have lost this war long ago and Russians would be on the border with Poland right now".

Sounds like SOS Rubio is Musk's little guard dog, say thank you grrrrrr, don't you know Russia would be knocking at your door if not for Elon!! I guess Russia isn't a big pussycat who just wants peace then and is a terrible agressor to be feared !? Did Rubio miss the Trump memo about that?

I sure don't have high hopes for this meeting today when a Secretary of State tells a Nato ally to be thankful that Russia isn't threatening their sovereignty right now...and an American combat veteran and Space voyager is called a traitor for visiting Ukraine and showing support to victims.
AJMO

‘You are a traitor’: Arizona Sen. Kelly, Elon Musk exchange words about Ukraine visit

Arizona Sen. Mark Kelly and billionaire Elon Musk exchanged words on social media after Musk called the Democratic lawmaker a “traitor” for visiting Ukraine.

www.azfamily.com

Redirect Notice

 

[UK Girl]

Maybe, we"ll see.

I guess it is so much easier to believe Ukraine is at fault

 

[Snoopster]

There's some history related to space program issues between Elon and Kelly, former astronaut. That's what appears to be playing out here. I suspect from Elon's point of view, having a sitting Congressmember go to a war zone when the Administration is working on a peace agreement is considered to be inappropriate. They may differ on their viewpoints. People often do.

But you didn't address why the US seems to be supporting Russian interests. Russia is the invader. That is anti-democratic. So for a citizen to go to Ukraine...someone who actually understands war as a retired Navy captain., to see how things are going, seems ok. And, who is Elon? He wasn't elected.
The US Admin is not really working on a peace agreement IMO, as they want Ukraine to surrender. That's unacceptable to any democratic nation.

 

[Stella123]

I don't believe it has ever been Ukraine's desire to "defeat" Russia. They have simply and valiantly attempted to defend and protect their country and people from the aggressor. America would never simply give up and cede any of our land under such circumstances. And we would be grateful for any support from our allies, as Ukraine has been.

True "defeating Russia" is more an expression you'd use if Ukraine was trying to take over Russia - which they are not. It is actually Russia trying to "defeat Ukraine" - because Russia invaded Ukraine and Ukraine are "defending" their country.

Russia is suffering economically and in terms of manpower IMO How long the war lasts might depend on whose resources get lowest first. Which is why it's despicable Trump cut aid, overnight without even any warning or time to prepare. Despicable. JMO

Napoleon failed due to logistics - (something I remember from school history lol). Logistics is what can win or lose wars. Running out of supplies - not being able to get supplies through.

If Trump really wanted peace he would have gone about it in a less cruel way JMO

 

[UK Girl]

I would be open to having Europe defeat Russia.

We are going in as peacekeepers. Not to defeat Russia.

 

[Summerliz03]

I have thought that for a long time tbh. He often gets things mixed up when he is speaking.

He reminds me so much of my grandfather during his early stages with Alzheimer’s/dementia. He was still lucid enough to function quite normally and independently, but his personality changed and he became combative and forgetful and repeated himself constantly.

Edit to add: recently I went back and watched some of trumps speeches and interviews from 2016-2020 and his decline since then is quite shocking and noticeable. He’s always been very brash but he has changed so much since then.

 

[UK Girl]

There's some history related to space program issues between Elon and Kelly, former astronaut. That's what appears to be playing out here. I suspect from Elon's point of view, having a sitting Congressmember go to a war zone when the Administration is working on a peace agreement is considered to be inappropriate. They may differ on their viewpoints. People often do.

Tbh I can't see it. Kelly obviously knows they were illegally invaded and then saw how badly Zelensky was treated in the White House. Then after knowing the bombing has increased since Trumps meltdown likely wants to see it for himself. I guess unlike other he has a conscience. Incidentally have Trump and Vance even been then yet?

 

[UK Girl]

Senator Mark Kelly, an ex-Navy combat pilot/astronaut, visited Ukraine touring military hospitals, chatted with Red Cross workers and giving support for the victims of Russian agression, on X.

Musk replied to the Senator, "You are a traitor".

To which Senator Kelly replied,

“Traitor? Elon, if you don’t understand that defending freedom is a basic tenet of what makes America great and keeps us safe, maybe you should leave it to those of us who do.”

A very tame and dignified answer, IMO.

A Polish offical on X , who dared to say if Starlinks (which the Polish government helps fund for Ukraine) was cut off or service compromised, they would look elsewhere for a provider.

Musk told him, "Be quiet, small man...".

Sec. of State Marco Rubio, who in the not-so-distant past has numerous times called Putin a war criminal and said Putin wanted to set up a puppet government in Ukraine, then responded,

"And say thank you because without Starlink Ukraine would have lost this war long ago and Russians would be on the border with Poland right now".

Sounds like SOS Rubio is Musk's little guard dog, say thank you grrrrrr, don't you know Russia would be knocking at your door if not for Elon!! I guess Russia isn't a big pussycat who just wants peace then and is a terrible agressor to be feared !? Did Rubio miss the Trump memo about that?

I sure don't have high hopes for this meeting today when a Secretary of State tells a Nato ally to be thankful that Russia isn't threatening their sovereignty right now...and an American combat veteran and Space voyager is called a traitor for visiting Ukraine and showing support to victims.
AJMO

‘You are a traitor’: Arizona Sen. Kelly, Elon Musk exchange words about Ukraine visit

Arizona Sen. Mark Kelly and billionaire Elon Musk exchanged words on social media after Musk called the Democratic lawmaker a “traitor” for visiting Ukraine.

www.azfamily.com

Redirect Notice

Kelly seems like one of the good guys

 

[Stella123]

Senator Mark Kelly's visit to Ukraine - with photos

Kelly Visits Ukraine as the Country Keeps Fighting Against Putin’s Illegal Invasion - Senator Mark Kelly

Kelly visited a military hospital and met with Red Cross staff He was briefed by Ukrainian military leaders and U.S. embassy officials This is Kelly’s third visit to Ukraine; his most recent trip was in September 2023 To download photos, click here Today, Arizona Senator Mark Kelly returned from...

www.kelly.senate.gov

 

[keek]

I guess it is so much easier to believe Ukraine is at fault

Tbh I can't see it. Kelly obviously knows they were illegally invaded and then saw how badly Zelensky was treated in the White House. Then after knowing the bombing has increased since Trumps meltdown likely wants to see it for himself. I guess unlike other he has a conscience. Incidentally have Trump and Vance even been then yet?

It is really clear that the wrong kind of government is becoming the right kind of government. Not that Russia is a a government at ALL. This is to some.

 

[keek]

Kelly seems like one of the good guys

He is a strong and ethical, intelligent man and we are so fortunate to have him here in USA. SO unfortunate to have the others.

 

[Stella123]

Senator Kelly has done what someone from the US Gov should have done IMO. His photos show a real country, with real people in daily life, normal clothes, teens, children etc - not an empty ravaged warzone, as some people seem to think it is. People live and work there and have daily lives there. JMO

 

[Sundog]

US not invited to Nato Summit on 11th March to discuss Ukraine

"The US will not be represented at a summit of military officials in Paris on March 11, where discussions will focus on the creation of international security forces for Ukraine. They were not invited, according to the Associated Press."

US wasn't invited to summit of military representatives in Paris - AP

Read more

newsukraine.rbc.ua

Click bait headlines from a Ukranian news source.

The reality is that -

The official said the United States wasn’t invited because European nations want to demonstrate that they can take responsibility for a large part of the post-ceasefire security framework for Ukraine.

The U.S. has made it clear that we're not putting boots on the ground.

from ABC News link in posted article, above.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

You wouldn't find it shameful? MOO

I think it would be good for Europe to come up with a solution. Don’t you?

 

[Stella123]

Musk is really sticking his nose into world politics a lot isn't he? Calling Kelly a traitor, accusing his DDOS attack of X on Ukraine. What is the benefit to him? JMO

 

[Fabled Automatic]

I think it would be good for Europe to come up with a solution. Don’t you?

I do. Which is why Trump needs to butt out and get the hell out of the kitchen. He said he'll walk away from this. The rest of the reasonable world is waiting for him to do so. He needs to do it already and stop double-talking.

We're not waiting for him to strike a deal or anything. He's like that drunk uncle at the end of the Christmas party. We literally just want him to leave.