Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #14

[Stella123]

Slightly different tone from Trump here IMO

"
15m ago21.09 GMT
US president Donald Trump said he wanted to “get this show on the road” and end the war in Ukraine after the countries agreed a plan for a 30-day ceasefire.

Speaking to reporters at the White House, Trump said: “Ukraine, ceasefire, Ukraine, ceasefire, just agreed to a little while ago.

“Now we have to go to Russia, and hopefully President Putin will agree to that also, and we can get this show on the road.

“We want to get that war over with.”

Seemingly referring to Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s turbulent visit to the White House last month, the president said: “I think it’s a big difference between the last visit you saw in the Oval Office, and this.

“That’s a total ceasefire – Ukraine has agreed to it, and hopefully Russia will agree to it.

“We’re going to meet with them later on today and tomorrow, and hopefully we’ll be able to wipe out a deal.”

He added: “If we can get Russia to do it, that’ll be great. If we can’t, we just keep going on and people are going to get killed, lots of people.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/mar/11/ukraine-russia-us-peace-talks-moscow-war-latest-live-news-europe#top-of-blog

 

[JennieM]

Large-scale drone attack hits Dnipro, eastern Ukraine, regional head says
​

The regional head of Dnipro, in the east of Ukraine, says there has been a largescale drone attack on the region.

In a post on Telegram, Serhiy Lysak says there is an infrastructure facility on fire but it is unknown if anyone has been injured.

There is damage to two houses, he adds.

This follows a massive overnight Ukrainian attack that appears to have been the largest drone attack that Ukraine has launched in Moscow.

Putin 'makes first visit to Kursk since Ukraine incursion' ahead of US-Russia talks

Kyiv has called on Moscow to respond to the proposed ceasefire - the Kremlin says it is waiting to be briefed by the US.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Stella123]

Does he really think Putin cares about people being killed?!! I think he is fairly sure Putin will agree to the ceasefire but then he won't agree to any other reasonable IMO

 

[Stella123]

Large-scale drone attack hits Dnipro, eastern Ukraine, regional head says​

​

The regional head of Dnipro, in the east of Ukraine, says there has been a largescale drone attack on the region.

In a post on Telegram, Serhiy Lysak says there is an infrastructure facility on fire but it is unknown if anyone has been injured.

There is damage to two houses, he adds.

This follows a massive overnight Ukrainian attack that appears to have been the largest drone attack that Ukraine has launched in Moscow.

Putin 'makes first visit to Kursk since Ukraine incursion' ahead of US-Russia talks

Kyiv has called on Moscow to respond to the proposed ceasefire - the Kremlin says it is waiting to be briefed by the US.

www.bbc.co.uk

Carrying on right up until "talks" like Ukraine did. JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

I still wish they would specify what they mean by "military assistance". There are different types! It doesn't say "full" military assistance or financial aid or weapons. JMO

Didn't it say something about the Presidential Drawdown Authority? It is the authority that the US have used in the 5 transfers of assistance they have previously given.


Presidential drawdown authority (PDA) refers to the authority of the President to direct the immediate drawdown (i.e., transfer from U.S. stocks) of defense articles and services in response to an “unforeseen emergency” pursuant to Section 506 of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961

https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IN12453#:~:text=Presidential%20drawdown%20authority%20(PDA)%20refers,1961%20(codified%20at%2022%20U.S.C.

 

[Stella123]

Slightly different tone from Trump here IMO

"
15m ago21.09 GMT
US president Donald Trump said he wanted to “get this show on the road” and end the war in Ukraine after the countries agreed a plan for a 30-day ceasefire.

Speaking to reporters at the White House, Trump said: “Ukraine, ceasefire, Ukraine, ceasefire, just agreed to a little while ago.

“Now we have to go to Russia, and hopefully President Putin will agree to that also, and we can get this show on the road.

“We want to get that war over with.”

Seemingly referring to Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s turbulent visit to the White House last month, the president said: “I think it’s a big difference between the last visit you saw in the Oval Office, and this.

“That’s a total ceasefire – Ukraine has agreed to it, and hopefully Russia will agree to it.

“We’re going to meet with them later on today and tomorrow, and hopefully we’ll be able to wipe out a deal.”

He added: “If we can get Russia to do it, that’ll be great. If we can’t, we just keep going on and people are going to get killed, lots of people.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/mar/11/ukraine-russia-us-peace-talks-moscow-war-latest-live-news-europe#top-of-blog

Trump is saying they're meeting with Russia "later today and tomorrow".

 

[Stella123]

Didn't it say something about the Presidential Drawdown Authority? It is the authority that the US have used in the 5 transfers of assistance they have previously given.


Presidential drawdown authority (PDA) refers to the authority of the President to direct the immediate drawdown (i.e., transfer from U.S. stocks) of defense articles and services in response to an “unforeseen emergency” pursuant to Section 506 of the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961

https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IN12453#:~:text=Presidential%20drawdown%20authority%20(PDA)%20refers,1961%20(codified%20at%2022%20U.S.C.

It did but I didn't understand that.

 

[LovesPeace2]

Absolute certainty, imo.

There's no way Putin will agree unless he has something else planned. But I hope and pray they don't give zapoeizhzhia to Russia

 

[Stella123]

Some info here. It hasn't been updated recently by the look of it and it seems there's a "cap" on how much can be spent, which has been reduced since 2022. JMO

Link below

Use of Presidential Drawdown Authority for Military Assistance for Ukraine

 

[Stella123]

There's no way Putin will agree unless he has something else planned. But I hope and pray they don't give zapoeizhzhia to Russia

Had to look that up ..........

"Zaporizhzhia is known for the historic island of Khortytsia, multiple power stations and for being an important industrial centre. Steel, aluminium, aircraft engines, automobiles, transformers for substations, and other heavy industrial goods are produced in the region."

Zaporizhzhia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I agree. It was mostly word salad then but now there is something else going on. Where are his rallies? They stopped after the election. His eyes look vacant. And what is it with that long oversized coat?
His eyes are puffy and he looks sick to me.

It is concerning that people in the GOP are not outraged. Actually frightening.

I agree. His suits look too big lately also, and he looks to have lost weight.

 

[Stella123]

According to a poll conducted by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology (KIIS) at the request of the Kyiv Independent, 47.1% of Ukrainians consider it "completely unacceptable" to agree to territorial concessions and give up on NATO membership as a prerequisite to ending the war.

Only 8.2% said they would "easily agree" to this scenario, while 38.1% of respondents called this option difficult but "generally acceptable."

6.2% of respondents found it difficult to answer the question, and 0.4% declined to answer.

In the age brackets between 18 and 29, over 50% of respondents find territorial concessions and a refusal from NATO membership in exchange for ending the war "completely unacceptable." In Ukraine's east, 49.5% see this option as difficult but "generally acceptable."

The survey, commissioned by the Kyiv Independent, was conducted between Feb. 5 and March 10. 2,029 people took part, and the margin of error is a maximum of 2.4%."

Half of Ukrainians say territorial concessions, forfeiting NATO membership in exchange for ending war 'completely unacceptable'

According to a poll conducted by the Kyiv International Institute of Sociology (KIIS) at the request of the Kyiv Independent, 47.1% of Ukrainians consider it "completely unacceptable" to agree to territorial concessions and give up on NATO membership as a prerequisite to ending the war. Only...

kyivindependent.com

 

[SouthAussie]

Had to look that up ..........

"Zaporizhzhia is known for the historic island of Khortytsia, multiple power stations and for being an important industrial centre. Steel, aluminium, aircraft engines, automobiles, transformers for substations, and other heavy industrial goods are produced in the region."

Zaporizhzhia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It is definitely one of the places that Putin wants.


At the bare minimum, it is unlikely to budge on its core demand that Ukraine permanently cede not only those territories Russia already occupies - in Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, Donetsk and Luhansk regions - but also gives up the adjacent cities of Kherson and Zaporizhzhia, forcing hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian residents to either flee or become Russian."

What hurdles does Europe's peace plan for Ukraine face?

Whatever words are used to frame the plan, enormous challenges lie ahead, the BBC's Frank Gardner writes.

www.yahoo.com

 

[branmuffin]

"The Agreement between United Kingdom, France, Italy and German dated September 29, 1938

Germany, the United Kingdom, France and Italy, taking into consideration the agreement, which has already been reached in principle for the cession to Germany of the Sudeten German territory, have agreed on the following terms and conditions governing the said cession and the measures consequent thereon, and by this agreement they each hold themselves responsible for the steps necessary to secure its fulfilment.
1. the evacuation will begin October 1st
2. The United Kingdom, France and Italy agree that the evacuation of the territory shall be completed by October 10th, without any existing installations having been destroyed and that the Czechoslovakian government will be held responsible for carrying out the evacuation without damage to said installations.
3. The conditions governing the evacuations will be laid down in detail by an international commission composed of representatives of Germany, the United Kingdom, France, Italy and Czechoslovakia.
4. The occupation by stages of the predominantly German territory by German troops will begin on October 1st. The four territories marked on the attached map will be occupied by German troops in the following order, the territory marked number I on the 1st and 2nd of October, the territory marked as number II on the 2nd and 3rd, 4th of October, the territory marked as III on the 3rd 4th and 5th of October and the territory marked as number IV on the 6th and 7th of October."

And if you thought that was bad enough- signing a blank check for Hitler to occupy other countries, this was the conclusion of military experts. See below. And check out the final sentence. How wrong they got that because in less than 6 months Germany took over the rest of Czechoslovakia and in September, Poland. Two days later UK declared war against Germany.


******************************************************************************************

The only difference between what Hitler wanted in 1938 and what Putin wants now is that in the above agreement the territories that Germany wanted in Sudetenland were facilitated by the Allies of the moment. Putin has already taken the territory he wanted right in front of everyone's noses. He started with Crimea and controls other areas of influence for Russia like Mariupol and Kharkiv. Moldova must be sweating bullets right now. I don't think their NATO membership means much to Putin. Remember, he wants Russia to look like it did in 1795 when Catherine the Great was ruling Russia. Anyone who thinks he's going to be satisfied with a few puny territories he currently occupies is living in a dreamworld, imo. And I wouldn't put it passed the cagy to relent and let Crimea vote in an election for a new President. Ukrainians who got Russian citizenship bestowed on them under duress will get a 24 hour reprieve to vote Zelenskyy out. Or else. I know a lot of times, at least back in Trump's first term, his supporters used to say he was playing chess while everyone else was playing checkers. Now he's just playing Jenga.

 

[Fabled Automatic]

Slightly different tone from Trump here IMO

"
15m ago21.09 GMT
US president Donald Trump said he wanted to “get this show on the road” and end the war in Ukraine after the countries agreed a plan for a 30-day ceasefire.

Speaking to reporters at the White House, Trump said: “Ukraine, ceasefire, Ukraine, ceasefire, just agreed to a little while ago.

“Now we have to go to Russia, and hopefully President Putin will agree to that also, and we can get this show on the road.

“We want to get that war over with.”

Seemingly referring to Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s turbulent visit to the White House last month, the president said: “I think it’s a big difference between the last visit you saw in the Oval Office, and this.

“That’s a total ceasefire – Ukraine has agreed to it, and hopefully Russia will agree to it.

“We’re going to meet with them later on today and tomorrow, and hopefully we’ll be able to wipe out a deal.”

He added: “If we can get Russia to do it, that’ll be great. If we can’t, we just keep going on and people are going to get killed, lots of people.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/mar/11/ukraine-russia-us-peace-talks-moscow-war-latest-live-news-europe#top-of-blog

I'm interested to know the details of the deal. Because if we know one thing, it's that Trump doesn't do anything if there isn't something big in it for himself.

 

[JennieM]

7m ago22.27 GMT
Ukraine’s defence minister Rustem Umerov wrote on X he was “grateful to all participants of today’s meeting for a very productive and results-oriented conversation”.

He went on to thank his “American colleagues” and “Saudi friends and partners” for their support.


24m ago18.11 EDT
The U.S. fully restored intelligence sharing with Ukraine following talks in Saudi Arabia, a Ukrainian senior governmental official told Reuters.

Separately, a presidential official said that military assistance had also been resumed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2025/mar/11/ukraine-russia-us-peace-talks-moscow-war-latest-live-news-europe#top-of-blog

 

[Bethan]

Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is the largest nuclear plant of its kind in Europe and the ninth largest in the world.

It has been under Russian control since 2022.

 

[LoveyG]

Assuming a peacefire is agreed by Putin - who is going to police it or monitor it? JMO

Agreements don't mean much to Russia. They don't mean much to the US these days either. I don't know how any arrangements can be believed or trusted.

 

[MrsWatson]

Agreements don't mean much to Russia. They don't mean much to the US these days either. I don't know how any arrangements can be believed or trusted.

Those "agreements" from Russian will be just like the restraining orders that abuse victims get; it the end, they are just a piece of paper.

moo

 

[Stella123]

Surely if an agreement is reached that Putin keeps various areas, he should have to pay compensation for the loss of industry and the nuclear power plant (as well as letting Ukrainians out of the area!). But I guess that won't be part of a deal because Putin didn't lose the war if there's a deal. If he lost the war then he'd have to pay reparations. JMO Although he'd probably refuse anyway. Russia isn't like Germany in WW2 because we're not at war with Russia - only Ukraine is. MOO