Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #2

[tedtink]

I have another question:
If and I do say a big IF, the proposition of Ukraine joining NATO really is the reason behind Putins attack on Keiv, then why is he so disgruntled by the proposition? I get that he doesn’t want NATO just outside the demarcation lines of his borders but why does it concern him so much? Alternatively, if Ukraine were invited and chose to join NATO ( just for example and not pontificating as to wether or not Keiv meet the criteria for NATO admission), then why can’t there be a ‘buffer zone’ between Russias borders and NATO, wether that be by using Belarus as the zone or an alternative? I don’t understand Putins thought process about him being provoked by the West with regards to Ukraine potentially being a NATO member and having NATO troops on his borders because it’s not as if we are going there to intentionally cause an act of war . What am I not understanding here ? Why has he taken and is continuing to take such drastic action, bringing it to a destructive war between mother Russia and Ukraine and causing a humanitarian crisis? Not to mention such horrific loss of lives and liberties and damage. Just why ?

Exactly - If Putin does manage to take Ukraine he'll have even more Nato members on his border.
Poland, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia.

 

[PommyMommy]

Ukraine Says It Used Turkish-Made Drones to Hit Russian Targets (wsj.com)
A video posted on Twitter by the Ukrainian Embassy in Ankara showed a convoy of more than a dozen vehicles consumed by a fireball and a plume of smoke. The embassy tweeted two more videos taken out the window of a moving vehicle showing the charred wreckage of military vehicles.

The Ukrainian air force confirmed that one of these videos depicted the result of a TB2 strike in the town of Chornobaivka, in southern Ukraine, an area that has experienced serious fighting over the past couple of days.

Russia-Ukraine war: 'First footage ever' shows Turkish drone strike Russian forces | Middle East Eye
Ukraine's military on Sunday published a video that it claims shows a Turkish armed drone carrying out strikes against Russian forces.

The aerial footage of the Turkish-made Bayraktar TB2 drone being used in Ukraine's fight against the Russian invasion appears to be the first-ever footage of a TB2 in action.

Ragıp Soylu on Twitter - Video

Ragıp Soylu on Twitter - Video

 

[CSIDreamer]

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1498005950980145158?t=xMIPubmiX-0qW2NRBPCNLg&s=19

️Belarus missile ruins historical building in Chernihiv.

According to the UNIAN news agency, it was an Iskander ballistic missile system that was fired from Belarus and hit the 1939 building in central Chernihiv, a regional capital 150 kilometers north of Kyiv.

 

[Charlot123]

Do we have a map of what is happening in Ukraine? I know Kharkiv is Ukrainian. Acquaintances said that Russian TV reported Mariupol being taken.. how does it look for today, IRL? Wherever I read, there are only single facts, no maps of the military situation.

 

[Herat]

I've been hoarding cash.

I'm also worried about Alaska.

But, anyway.

I think if Putin goes over the edge, he won't waste a nuclear warhead on Alaska (unless it has anti-missile or monitoring capacities), but would use several nuclear missiles to take out the big US cities for governance, defense, and infrastructure: Washington DC NYC, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Dallas, Houston, Chicago.

The US west coast, especially because the radioactive fallout would travel east and contaminate crops and open water supplies in California and the midwest.

 

[Charlot123]

Here...

Russia invades Ukraine

 

[sunshineray]

UPDATED: 12:56 EST, 27 February 2022
Ukraine war: Belarus poised to declare war as special forces are 'loaded onto planes in' | Daily Mail Online
The Ukrainian state security service has officially reported that a rocket attack on Zhytomyr Airport - located some 93 miles west of Kiev - was launched from the territory of Belarus.

[...]

Ukrainian intelligence has reportedly learned from within Belarus that ‘special ops’ troops have been spotted loading up planes for a major attack.

Videos have circulated of the explosion at Zhytomyr Airport, with reports of shockwaves nearby.

A widening of the conflict to potentially include Russian ally Belarus could signal Vladimir Putin’s growing fury and frustration as the Russian campaign appears to get bogged down in fierce fighting around Kyiv and Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second biggest city. It could also run the risk of sucking in other states including NATO allies, triggering a pan-European conflict.

In a bizarre rant on Sunday, Belarusian dictator Alexander Lukashenko warned that the war in Ukraine will ‘become a meat grinder’.

[...]

And this is the guy who's hosting the peace discussions today!?

 

[PommyMommy]

Do we have a map of what is happening in Ukraine? I know Kharkiv is Ukrainian. Acquaintances said that Russian TV reported Mariupol being taken.. how does it look for today, IRL? Wherever I read, there are only single facts, no maps of the military situation.

If there's one here that interests you, let me know and I'll try to bring the image here.

Maps: Tracking the Russian invasion of Ukraine (reuters.com)

Maps of Ukraine and Russia show Russian invasion (usatoday.com)

Ukraine crisis: Five maps to explain Russian invasion - BBC News Pidgin

Six maps explaining the conflict in Ukraine - CNN

Ukraine maps: Tracking Russia's invasion - BBC News

 

[Sundog]

I found it interesting that the United States is not planning on accepting any refugees. And stated that Europe would be the destination for these refugees. I wonder why?

I haven't seen any articles on this, but is it possible that it is due to repatriation goals? Not sure how the international community views this, but that might be one reason. I am sure that there are NGO groups that will bring refugees to the U.S. if they are needed. Right now, in our community, there are nonprofit groups that are working on resettling the Afghan refugees that arrived from the Afghanistan evacuation.

 

[Herat]

Here...

Russia invades Ukraine

EXCELLENT DIAGRAM !

Wow, Kyiv is so so close to Belarus. This is very concerning.

 

[PommyMommy]

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1498005950980145158?t=xMIPubmiX-0qW2NRBPCNLg&s=19

️Belarus missile ruins historical building in Chernihiv.

According to the UNIAN news agency, it was an Iskander ballistic missile system that was fired from Belarus and hit the 1939 building in central Chernihiv, a regional capital 150 kilometers north of Kyiv.

Following that tweet - 7 minutes ago...

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter
️Another air raid alert in Kyiv.
People must urgently go to the nearest shelter.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

We’ve cleared our cellar out today, been on the to do list forever and it was a nice enough day to sort stuff out in the garden. Told my friend and she said “oh good, we were just saying your cellar is the nearest bunker”.

 

[Herat]

And this is the guy who's hosting the peace discussions today!?

They're not really called "peace" discussions, are they? There's no truce in the offing.

I think Putrid thinks of them as pre-surrender negotiations or pre-thermoplastic bomb warnings.

 

[sunshineray]

I found it interesting that the United States is not planning on accepting any refugees. And stated that Europe would be the destination for these refugees. I wonder why?

I'm sure if there are those that want to immigrate here they would be able to. Maybe it's expected most will want to go home and that that will be be able to happen soon? I hope that's the case, I pray.

 

[Amonet]

Well-written article and important perspective to add balance to understanding of the current situation.

I am accused of treachery, or of being an apologist for Russia, for urging a different view on this crisis. Surely this is how dissent is treated in dictatorships.

There are probably some valid points in there, but it seems to make out that Putun/Russia is solely a victim that's done nothing wrong in the years since the fall of the USSR...and that doesn't seem quite accurate to me.

If I was Finland or Sweden, I think I'd be looking at NATO. I can't blame the countries from the former Soviet Republics who have joined when I see now what's happening in Ukraine.

I am really confused about the line saying that the only thing Europe has done is ban Russia from Eurovision. I don't get who this is aimed at? Sticking a strawman like that into the article gives me the sense it is aimed at someone, but I don't understand who.

I would say we don't know what to do about Russia or China, and I think that's kind of the point? They also have the problem of what to do about the US and Europe. Is the way Putin's dealing with Europe at the moment, with the invasion of Ukraine and threats about nuclear weapons, really the way to go about it? Even telling other countries that they can't join Nato..perhaps NATO is purposeless these days, or perhaps its purpose is more within Europe as a post-WW2 institution and promise of peace, in that sense I can't necessarily see it as a bad thing, though perhaps it doesn't need to be in an arms race with/against Russia. And to be fair, Russia does seem to make everything about Russia. Putin's way of seeing the world is a problem for me, and whatever can be said about China isn't going to change how I feel about Putin, even that seems to be a case of 'but look over there toward China' instead of admitting all of Putin's faults?

 

[sunshineray]

They're not really called "peace" discussions, are they? There's no truce in the offing.

I think Putrid things of them as pre-surrender negotiations or pre-thermoplastic bomb warnings.

They called them negotiations, I would hope peace is the end game being discussed...but you're right it could unfortunately be more dire.

 

[PommyMommy]

Do we have a map of what is happening in Ukraine? I know Kharkiv is Ukrainian. Acquaintances said that Russian TV reported Mariupol being taken.. how does it look for today, IRL? Wherever I read, there are only single facts, no maps of the military situation.

I can't remember who posted this yesterday, but thank you! I had copied it to the media thread which is how I found it again.

Map: Which countries are accepting Ukrainian refugees?

----- Line of contact
Red Russian control
➝ Russian troops
Orange Donbas region
➙ Flow of people

 

[Charlot123]

If there's one here that interests you, let me know and I'll try to bring the image here.

Maps: Tracking the Russian invasion of Ukraine (reuters.com)

Maps of Ukraine and Russia show Russian invasion (usatoday.com)

Ukraine crisis: Five maps to explain Russian invasion - BBC News Pidgin

Six maps explaining the conflict in Ukraine - CNN

Ukraine maps: Tracking Russia's invasion - BBC News

Thank you. I also recommend meduza.io, it is an independent site posting in Russian and English and based in Latvia. One can Wiki-check it. I found a good map of Kyiv fight, but can't link unless it is OK'ed.

 

[Amonet]

No one has to like a viewpoint and they can say so.
MOO Hitchen's is an educated, witty but hollow man.
How dissent is treated in dicatorship? Think of Navalny running as the opposition candidate in Russia. He survived poisoning and now being slowly killed in a Gulag.

Yes! Indeed! That's kind of the things I'm thinking when reading that article, it's like he's saying "you can't disagree with me or your as bad as Russia/China". But freedom shouldn't only bring free speech (generally meaning you're free to speak up against your government) but also the right to disagree and debate. I would not agree with Hitchens being taken off to the Gulag for that piece, but I still feel like it's a bit weird.

 

[badgersmythe]

We’ve cleared our cellar out today, been on the to do list forever and it was a nice enough day to sort stuff out in the garden. Told my friend and she said “oh good, we were just saying your cellar is the nearest bunker”.

would you have room for another 2? There’s no such thing as cellars around here.