Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #5

[Elley Mae]

UK to Give Anti-aircraft Missiles to Ukraine: Minister

UK to Give Anti-aircraft Missiles to Ukraine: Minister

The STARStreak system is made by Thales.

If confirmed, the supply would mark a significant step in the U.K.'s support for Ukraine. So far, Ukraine has praised the U.K.'s contribution of thousands of anti-tank missiles which have helped slow the Russian advance on Kyiv.

However the U.K.'s support has been limited to defensive weaponry.

"Everything we do is bound by the decision to supply defensive systems, and are calibrated not to escalate to a strategic level," Wallace said.

As a member of the NATO military alliance, the U.K. has rejected pleas from Ukraine to impose a no-fly zone over the country. The U.K. says that could mean NATO forces shooting down Russian planes, resulting in a significant escalation of the conflict.

A proposed plan to allow Poland to donate fighter jets for use in Ukraine was rejected by the United States on Tuesday. Poland now says any supply of fighter jets to Ukraine must be done jointly by NATO countries.

 

[Arkay]

I see us debating some issues, we can get hot and heavy, that's WS. We NEED to get to the bottom of these rumors/issues. I've posted a few times this morning as links keep getting brought up that have been debunked. WS has NEVER stood on rumor, ever. JMO

Absolutely, of course, we debate and we search for facts from approved sources to undergird what we post. I’m just gently commenting because there have been some personalized comments bordering on rude, and that’s against TOS.

Let’s all remember who the enemy is. IMO it’s just Putin. I think all the democratic countries are trying to help Ukraine, but at government levels things are much more complex than we know. There are laws and protocols that I wish could be skipped in favor of immediately declaring a no-fly zone, but that’s not how NATO works.

Thirty years ago, when I was a new teacher, I was perplexed because so many students from Russia, Ukraine, Georgia etc. kept bringing me bouquets of flowers on March 8th.

At that time, I hadn’t heard about International Women’s Day, which is a huge tradition in that part of the world and more widely known now.

That’s why it was particularly egregious yesterday to see pictures of ancient Ukrainian women who had to be carried on stretchers to escape their towns. And mothers trying to shield their newborns in unheated basements. Putin gave a speech yesterday praising women on March 8th to “celebrate” them. It was very cognitively dissonant to see that while seeing how Ukrainian women are being treated.

IMO again, there’s one evildoer here and that’s Putin. It’s not the US or Poland or NATO.

 

[Puzzles]

The agonies suffered by victims of aggressors everywhere are heinous and unfathomable.

Apart from that certainty, all I know is that I know nothing.

 

[rootbeer]

I generally trust Reuters, but keep this in mind.
TASS News Agency joins Reuters Connect
TASS News Agency joins Reuters Connect

 

[Bit of hope]

I generally trust Reuters, but keep this in mind.
TASS News Agency joins Reuters Connect
TASS News Agency joins Reuters Connect

????

 

[Kiranerys]

Ukraine also started the Chernobyl meltdown hysteria. And the Red Cross symbol issue. Jmo

I'm not saying they aren't stressed out or such. But why turn this huge turmoil? It detracts from the main issues.

Everyone lose their minds over the Red Cross. Meanwhile, the Red Cross is trying desperately to evacuate civilians from a war zone.

Jmo

Agreed,he shouldn't have said that either but the man is desperate. I have read lots of the things he has said recently and I admit that I have wondered how long it will take before people get annoyed with him because at first he was humble and asking for help but when it has become apparent that the help he wants (and I completely understand why he is asking for it,who wouldn't in his situation?) isn't available because as much as every nato member country feels terrible for Ukraine, they just can't risk stepping in. Putin is a total maniac and we have seen how he will cut off his nose to spite his face,he would have no issue hitting the nuke button and everyone is scared to set him off,so we can't help like VZ needs, VZ has become increasingly frustrated and is now basically telling the whole world that they too have blood on their hands.
I think its human nature for us to get our backs up when we are offering as much help as we can reasonably give yet we are being accused of throwing Ukraine to the wolves. Although I completely understand his anger and frustration, his sheer desperation, I don't think his rants and outbursts will help his image right now. Stamping your feet when you don't get what you want is more Putins style AMOO

 

[Bit of hope]

Not my favorite, but somebody has to do it. And don't get me wrong I stand with Ukraine, especially their citizens under fire, not been able to flee....
War also rages online: two examples of misinformation by Ukraine

The war in Ukraine is not only a battle with bombs, but also an information war via social media. The warring parties bombard each other, their own population and their allies with propaganda and disinformation.

NOS this week, when verifying war footage, found two examples of misinformation being spread by, in this case, the Ukrainian government. Whether this was intentional cannot be determined with certainty. In one case the information is still online, in the other case the photo has been removed, but by then that photo had already been shared a lot.

A bakery
One of the examples can be found in a Twitter message from Emine Dzhaparova, the Ukrainian deputy foreign minister. On Monday she wrote about a Russian bombing of a bakery near Kiev. Thirteen people were killed. Her tweet was accompanied by the photo below.


Emine Dzheppar @EmineDzheppar

Russian occupants shelled the State Enterprise "Makariv Bakery" in the Kyiv region. It is known that 13 people killed. There were more people on the ground. There is no limit to the immorality of the Russian occupants. #StopRussianAgression #StandWithUkraine

2 days ago
The photo is of a bombing, but not of the incident she is writing about. If you look up the image via 'reversed image search' (a technique where you search for the origin of a photo), it turns out that the photo was taken during an air raid on a Syrian village near Aleppo on October 17, 2016. The maker is a photojournalist for Reuters news agency.

It is unknown whether the deputy minister deliberately placed a wrong photo. She was previously Deputy Minister at the Ministry of Information. That ministry was set up in 2014 to combat Russian disinformation. In any case, Emine Dzhaparova has not yet corrected the photo accompanying her tweet. She later posted the same message in Turkish , Arabic and Chinese , including the wrong photo.

a drone
Another example of misinformation by Ukrainian authorities is a photo of a drone that was widely shared in Telegram groups and on Twitter earlier this week. It was reported that a Russian drone was shot down in Chernihiv, a city in northern Ukraine. The photo comes from Viacheslav Chaus, governor of the region.


Ridnа_Vilnа 33%@ua_ridna_vilna

Ніжинському районі збили російського безпілотника. олова ернігівської В'ячеслав Чаус

2 days ago
But the drone is not Russian at all. It is a Ukrainian-made A1-CM Furia drone. It has a camera on board and is used for reconnaissance missions. The website of manufacturer Athlon Avia shows that the drone has been produced for the Ukrainian armed forces since 2014.

Because the relationship between Ukraine and Russia has been extremely bad during all these years, it is very unlikely that Russia will fly over Ukraine with this type of drone. The company Athlon Avia did not respond to questions from the NOS. The photo of the 'shot down drone' shows a parachute; according to one manual, unfolding that parachute is one of the normal ways to land the drone. So there is no need for a crash.

The photo can no longer be found on Governor Chaus's official Telegram channel. The post with the photo has since been removed . Chaus has not posted a correction to his post. On several other Telegram channels and, for example, on this news website , the photo remains, including the text that it is a shot down Russian drone.

this twitter account . On that same account, we sometimes also make help requests to our audience, as in this example .


Oorlog woedt ook online: twee voorbeelden van misinformatie door Oekraïne

 

[Herat]

Trusty FORTE10 Global Hawk superdrone is back up over the southern Black Sea.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Trusty FORTE10 Global Hawk superdrone is back up over the southern Black Sea.

Well hi. Welcome to the fray lol.

 

[Sundog]

yes. yes.
Autocratic dictators are very powerful, and are always in the loooong game.

All countries will see this threat is different ways. We are not the same.

US Democracy is quite fragile right now. US leadership has been flirting with, dining with, making money with authoritarian principles and peoples for a long while now.

We are neither a strong Democracy, nor an united defender AGAINST Autocracy or Kleptocracy.
The US could easily go either way in the future. Either way...........

Of course jmo..... but I could probably attach a number of valid well researched accounts... but they would still be OPINIONS.of the probably future of the US.......

China is the elephant in the room, or on the earth....

US businesses and investors (inlcuding congressional leaders) benefit greatly from financial dealings with the PRC. That will be hard to ever give up, that is where we are most vulnerable in relation the the PRC, IMO.

 

[Herat]

FR24

CANADA REPRESENTS!

CFC4221 Canadian Royal Airforce Lockheed Hercules is up over Poland, apparently flying from a base in Croatia. Landing soon in Rzeszhow, Poland, which seems to be a major staging area for the Allied support of Poland and the Ukraine border region.

"What are Lockheed Hercules used for?




The versatile airframe has found uses in a variety of other roles, including as a gunship (AC-130), for airborne assault, search and rescue, scientific research support, weather reconnaissance, aerial refueling, maritime patrol, and aerial firefighting

 

[CSIDreamer]

Video at link.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1501587316028153867?t=oNtsS95aX6Seld8FOVkLXA&s=19

️ Russian airstrike destroys maternity, children's hospital in Mariupol.

According to President Volodymyr Zelensky, there are still adults and kids under the rubble. The number of victims is yet unknown, local authorities report.

Video: Mariupol City Council https://t.co/dBGWRzEQrw

I think we're making some progress on this thread regarding misinformation.

Experiment? Will one of you independently verify this hospital is where it says it is and the videos match the photos you find?

I'm not saying we need to knock every post, but this is a link I posted so I won't take results to heart.

Anyone?

 

[Bit of hope]

Russian attacks hits Ukraine maternity hospital, officials say

Absolutely incredible...

 

[Elley Mae]

Russia bombs maternity and children’s hospital in Ukraine: LIVE UPDATES


Ukrainian children’s hospital bombed by Russian forces: ‘Pure genocide’

Ukraine children's hospital bombed in Mariupol by Russian forces

Putin sinks to new low: Maternity hospital is bombed, with children buried under rubble in Mariupol, where '3,000 babies are without food or medicine', while Russian troops round up 400 Ukrainian 'hostages' in Kherson

Maternity hospital reported bombed; Zelensky says children buried under debris

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/09/russia-ukraine-war-news-putin-live-updates/

 

[escape2sc]

Not my favorite, but somebody has to do it. And don't get me wrong I stand with Ukraine, especially their citizens under fire, not been able to flee....
War also rages online: two examples of misinformation by Ukraine

Quote snipped by me

The examples given in the information you provided only states the wrong photos were used and does not discount 13 people were killed when a bakery was bombed. I would consider it disinformation if there was proof the bakery was not bombed. Also, I am not sure if pictures of Russian drones are widely available and they couldn't very well get a picture of the actual drone they shot down.

 

[Sarahlou]

Russia bombs maternity and children’s hospital in Ukraine: LIVE UPDATES


Ukrainian children’s hospital bombed by Russian forces: ‘Pure genocide’

Ukraine children's hospital bombed in Mariupol by Russian forces

Putin sinks to new low: Maternity hospital is bombed, with children buried under rubble in Mariupol, where '3,000 babies are without food or medicine', while Russian troops round up 400 Ukrainian 'hostages' in Kherson

Maternity hospital reported bombed; Zelensky says children buried under debris

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/09/russia-ukraine-war-news-putin-live-updates/

Total monsters.

 

[Elley Mae]

yes. yes.
Autocratic dictators are very powerful, and are always in the loooong game.

All countries will see this threat is different ways. We are not the same.

US Democracy is quite fragile right now. US leadership has been flirting with, dining with, making money with authoritarian principles and peoples for a long while now.

We are neither a strong Democracy, nor an united defender AGAINST Autocracy or Kleptocracy.
The US could easily go either way in the future. Either way...........

Of course jmo..... but I could probably attach a number of valid well researched accounts... but they would still be OPINIONS.of the probably future of the US.......

China is the elephant in the room, or on the earth....

DNI: China engaged in largest nuclear buildup in history, preparing ground to take Taiwan

 

[Bit of hope]

Quote snipped by me

The examples given in the information you provided only states the wrong photos were used and does not discount 13 people were killed when a bakery was bombed. I would consider it disinformation if there was proof the bakery was not bombed. Also, I am not sure if pictures of Russian drones are widely available and they couldn't very well get a picture of the actual drone they shot down.

I don't know what this is really being about...be ware.

 

[sunshineray]

I will clearly defend the US!!!! Especially when countries are trying to shame/blame the US for these plane !!!!! I support of NATO, if the US were to pull out, would there even be a NATO? I except NATO to stand with the US on this plane situation and shut the rhetoric down.

Biden is asking the America people for over 10 billion more, in addition to NATO support and the world wants to talk about/blame US for a plane deal. Nope, not having it, will not support additional funds unless NATO steps into defend the US!!!

I see Canada give 1.2% of the GDP, wonder why you don't give the full 2%.

The US gives the most at 3.8% over 6.85 Trillion dollars. Clearly countres that can afford to give more don't even meet the minimum requirements. Certainly 6.8 Trillion dollars would leave a big hole.

This whole plane situation, combined with the cost makes me rethink NATO. Clearly many are blaming the U.S. and expecting US not NATO to give these planes. MOO..the planes are junk, been with for years, leftover from a Russian conflict.

United States $6.85 Tn 3.42% 334,805,269
United Kingdom $655.27 Bn 2.13% 68,497,907
Germany $491.32 Bn 1.36% 83,883,596
France $477.05 Bn 1.84% 65,584,518
Italy $232.81 Bn 1.22% 60,262,770
Canada $212.77 Bn 1.27% 38,388,419
Turkey $180.00 Bn 1.89% 85,561,976
Spain $123.36 Bn 0.92% 46,719,142
Poland $113.76 Bn 2.01% 37,739,785
Netherlands $113.60 Bn 1.35% 17,211,447
Norway $70.14 Bn 1.70% 5,511,370
Greece $46.24 Bn 2.24% 10,316,637
Belgium $44.94 Bn 0.93% 11,668,278
Denmark $44.34 Bn 1.35% 5,834,950
Romania $43.68 Bn 2.04% 19,031,335
Portugal $30.64 Bn 1.41% 10,140,570
Czech Republic $25.13 Bn 1.19% 10,736,784
Slovakia $17.54 Bn 1.74% 5,460,193
Hungary $17.39 Bn 1.21% 9,606,259
Croatia $9.70 Bn 1.75% 4,059,286
Lithuania $9.33 Bn 1.98% 2,661,708
Bulgaria $9.27 Bn 1.61% 6,844,597
Latvia $6.22 Bn 2.01% 1,848,837
Estonia $5.69 Bn 2.13% 1,321,910
Slovenia $5.25 Bn 1.04% 2,078,034
Luxembourg $3.45 Bn 0.55% 642,371
Albania $1.66 Bn 1.26% 2,866,374
Montenegro $780.00 Mn 1.65% 627,950

NATO Spending by Country 2022

Moo..

I'm an American also. MOO is that the USA needs to stay in NATO. There's no question of that for me. While I understand the vigor with which you speak and defend, having it lead to the USA leaving NATO would be disastrous for all.

IMO, It should always be the duty of the strong to help the weaker and less fortunate...especially when the world still has too many monsters who prey.

It should be our vocation as a very fortunate nation to help and support those that have less and are in dire troubles. We in turn should have the support that lends us a hand too when needed.

That Poland wanted to help Ukraine through us was not s bad thing, a bad thought. And it was perfectly understandable to me why they felt extremely on edge to do it themselves. I just wish they hadn't done, what feels like now, to be a set-up of our conscious to not be able to say no on the world stage to something we, the USA, felt was too risky to do because of madman Putin. I'm sure Poland sees that now too and their intentions were and are still good.

Everyone in NATO and many others want to help Ukraine.

AJMO and never meaning to offend

 

[otto]

Footage from the hospital

https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/sta...ews/world/ukraine-russia-war-march9-1.6378100