Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #5

[Satchie]

The examples given in the information you provided only states the wrong photos were used and does not discount 13 people were killed when a bakery was bombed. I would consider it disinformation if there was proof the bakery was not bombed. Also, I am not sure if pictures of Russian drones are widely available and they couldn't very well get a picture of the actual drone they shot down.

Just to add, using photos unrelated to the actual event is standard in MSM stories, it's something they've been doing for decades. They do a story on a drone strike, they'll show a photo of a standard drone from something else. It happens constantly.

Perhaps people have taken to doing the same thing in their twitter accounts, who knows, I don't follow twitter. Surely no one imagines twitter is a source for unbiased news, unless it's a news agency account?

 

[Elley Mae]

Mariupol officials, faced with a rising death toll, have dug a trench over 82 feet wide in a cemetery, burying at least 70 bodies at the site as of Wednesday, according to the Associated Press.

Mariupol officials open mass gravesite as death toll rises

Sergei said residents dealing with depleting supplies have been drinking snow and burning firewood.

 

[Herat]

FR24

Italian Air Force Plane crusing around eastern Romania

Interesting: Ukranian-owned plane, CVK7010 Cavok Air Antonov An-12B from Basel, Switzerland to Chisnau, Moldova.

It's a Soviet-built plane. "The Antonov An-12 is a four-engined turboprop transport aircraft designed in the Soviet Union. It is the military version of the Antonov An-10 and has many variants. For more than three decades the An-12 was the standard medium-range cargo and paratroop transport aircraft of the Soviet air forces."

Since Russia invaded Ukraine on Feb 27 it has flown out of Goose Bay, Newfoundland, Canada where there is a Canadian Air Base, to Reykavik ( likely refueling ) to Oslo. And back and forth a bit.

A ND a second Ukrainian-owned Cavok Air flight CVK7012 is also flying in to Chisnau, Moldova.

This one has a VERY CURIOUS prior set of flights that go from
Ghardgia, Algeria to Paris, Bamako, Mali to ?, Girona, Spain to Tamanrasset, Algeria, Girona to Basel today on to Chisnau, Moldova.

Tamanrasset, Algeris is the most curious of these stops. It is in the extreme remote middle of the Sahara and is associated with some Frence-Italian agencies involved in fighting Al-Quaeds in the Magreb agencies but not much else. How this relates to Spain, Switzerland, and Moldova is something for smarter minds than mine to find out. These appear to be close to the time of the breakout of the Ukranian war. The prior history is even more curious. Mallorca to Niamey, Niger? Hmmm

Charter flights for NGO agencies?

And why two Ukrainian-owned planes are together in Moldova, one having come from Oslo the other from Spain is anyone's guess.

 

[otto]

I'm an American also. MOO is that the USA needs to stay in NATO. There's no question of that for me. While I understand the vigor with which you speak and defend, having it lead to the USA leaving NATO would be disastrous for all.

IMO, It should always be the duty of the strong to help the weaker and less fortunate...especially when the world still has too many monsters who prey.

It should be our vocation as a very fortunate nation to help and support those that have less and are in dire troubles. We in turn should have the support that lends us a hand too when needed.

That Poland wanted to help Ukraine through us was not s bad thing, a bad thought. And it was perfectly understandable to me why they felt extremely on edge to do it themselves. I just wish they hadn't done, what feels like now, to be a set-up of our conscious to not be able to say no on the world stage to something we, the USA, felt was too risky to do because of madman Putin. I'm sure Poland sees that now too and their intentions were and are still good.

Everyone in NATO and many others want to help Ukraine.

AJMO and never meaning to offend

NATO will continue with or without the USA. There are 30 countries that belong to NATO with a common goal to "counter the threat posed by the USSR, also known as the Soviet Union."

Greece contributes 3.82% of GDP to NATO, the USA contributes 3.52% of GDP.

 

[Elley Mae]

Just to add, using photos unrelated to the actual event is standard in MSM stories, it's something they've been doing for decades. They do a story on a drone strike, they'll show a photo of a standard drone from something else. It happens constantly.

Perhaps people have taken to doing the same thing in their twitter accounts, who knows, I don't follow twitter. Surely no one imagines twitter is a source for unbiased news, unless it's a news agency account?

Right, saw a pic of madonna leaving restaurant the other day, she actually does look her age and not like the images that you see in daily papers.

…

Some will state stock image.
Jmo

 

[worldwatcher]

British foreign secretary says UK will supply air defense systems to Ukraine


Live updates: Russia invades Ukraine

 

[CSIDreamer]

Quote snipped by me

The examples given in the information you provided only states the wrong photos were used and does not discount 13 people were killed when a bakery was bombed. I would consider it disinformation if there was proof the bakery was not bombed. Also, I am not sure if pictures of Russian drones are widely available and they couldn't very well get a picture of the actual drone they shot down.

IMO it throws doubt on the whole thing. WHY use photos that don't match the info? Jmo

We've spent all morning discussing the need for accuracy.

 

[sunshineray]

NATO will continue with or without the USA. There are 30 countries that belong to NATO with a common goal to "counter the threat posed by the USSR, also known as the Soviet Union."

Greece contributes 3.82% of GDP to NATO, the USA contributes 3.52% of GDP.

IMO, NATO would not be the same, have the same tools though without the USA. I surely wouldn't want my country to just become the arms dealer and not have a say or input into how they were used in the big scheme of things. The Earth is way smaller than a lot of people perceive it and it needs protection.

AJMO

 

[Arkay]

I saw this on Twitter, so I edited out all commentary or info.

I love this picture.

 

[Elley Mae]

Kissinger penned an op-ed in the Washington Post on March 5, 2014 headlined, "To settle the Ukraine crisis, start at the end," which detailed much of what has unfolded as Russia’s attack continues.

"Public discussion on Ukraine is all about confrontation. But do we know where we are going? In my life, I have seen four wars begun with great enthusiasm and public support, all of which we did not know how to end and from three of which we withdrew unilaterally. The test of policy is how it ends, not how it begins," Kissinger wrote.

"Far too often the Ukrainian issue is posed as a showdown: whether Ukraine joins the East or the West. But if Ukraine is to survive and thrive, it must not be either side’s outpost against the other — it should function as a bridge between them," he continued. "Russia must accept that to try to force Ukraine into a satellite status, and thereby move Russia’s borders again, would doom Moscow to repeat its history of self-fulfilling cycles of reciprocal pressures with Europe and the United States."

Flashback: 2014 Washington Post column by Henry Kissinger predicted many of the Russian-Ukraine issues

 

[Satchie]

IMO it throws doubt on the whole thing. WHY use photos that don't match the info? Jmo

We've spent all morning discussing the need for accuracy.

I've recently joined the debate and am not clear...is it about WSers need for accuracy, or about the 44 million Ukrainians need for accuracy?

 

[worldwatcher]

IMO it throws doubt on the whole thing. WHY use photos that don't match the info? Jmo

Imo,it happens all the time:

"Old images, fiction films and even video games have all been used to spread fake news stories in war-torn Syria -- creating all the more work for a media collective debunking them."

Activists debunk war-torn Syria's fake news - France 24

How Syria’s war of disinformation reshaped the world | Borzou Daragahi

How Syria's disinformation wars destroyed the co-founder of the White Helmets

There is a saying here :
[All is fair in love and war]

 

[sunshineray]

FR24

Italian Air Force Plane crusing around eastern Romania

Interesting: Ukranian-owned plane, CVK7010 Cavok Air Antonov An-12B from Basel, Switzerland to Chisnau, Moldova.

It's a Soviet-built plane. "The Antonov An-12 is a four-engined turboprop transport aircraft designed in the Soviet Union. It is the military version of the Antonov An-10 and has many variants. For more than three decades the An-12 was the standard medium-range cargo and paratroop transport aircraft of the Soviet air forces."

Since Russia invaded Ukraine on Feb 27 it has flown out of Goose Bay, Newfoundland, Canada where there is a Canadian Air Base, to Reykavik ( likely refueling ) to Oslo. And back and forth a bit.

I just read a piece on the Founder and executive chairman, World Economic Forum...he's German born but Swiss, family from Switzerland. Lots a Russian friends in high places. It's a good read.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.po...os-putin-russian-oligarchs-00015344?_amp=true

 

[escape2sc]

IMO it throws doubt on the whole thing. WHY use photos that don't match the info? Jmo

We've spent all morning discussing the need for accuracy.

Are you doubting the accuracy of 13 people dying in the bakery bombing because the wrong photo was used ? I don't mean to be argumentative but honestly I do not understand how using the wrong pictures of a bakery being bombed and a drone being shot down could possibly cancel out the videos and photos taken by journalists of the destruction in Ukraine. With all due respect, a maternity hospital was just bombed, thousands of citizens in Ukraine have been without food, water, heat and medical care for days, and Ukraine and her citizens are being bombed to oblivion - I honestly could care less about the wrong photos being used for a bakery bombing unless the actual photo would prove the bakery was not bombed and 13 people did not die.

 

[branmuffin]

The US is a fortunate position here, as it already produces enough gas and oil to be self sufficient. Europe does not and we are therefore tied to Russia in that respect until other arrangements are made.

Not sure how on earth the USA uses 20% of the entire worlds oil up though, what the heck are you doing with it? I mean, fair enough, it’s yours to use, but that’s an enormous amount for just one country!

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

Over 20% of vehicles in the US are pickup trucks. Another 11% are SUVs. This is the reason. Similar in Canada, too, probably. You have to remember that many places in both countries are great distances from each other and people think nothing of driving 75 miles to a big mall. Before I took early retirement, I drove 290k a day five days a week, round trip, for two years to my job because it bumped my pension up considerably.

I remember when that UK tv show was on Location, Location,Location we'd marvel at people balking at buying a place that meant they'd have to travel 10 km to work. Understandable based on the price of gas there, but everything is relative, I guess. Combined with the cheaper prices we've been paying (especially the US) compared to our European neighbours and our ambivalent attitude toward traveling great distances to go camping, to the beach, to visit relatives, etc. it's no wonder we are all feeling the pain now.

 

[Herat]

FR24

I notice Israel's El Al airlines is doing direct flights, Moscow-Tel Aviv, and return, flying over Turkey.

Israel is playing very careful politics, just as Turkey is.

 

[otto]

IMO, NATO would not be the same, have the same tools though without the USA. I surely wouldn't want my country to just become the arms dealer and not have a say or input into how they were used in the big scheme of things. The Earth is way smaller than a lot of people perceive it and it needs protection.

AJMO

Commonwealth Nations, like Canada (the second largest country in the world) and the UK may feel the same - that NATO would not be the same without them. However, the goals of NATO are so important to democratic countries that Canada and the UK do not have that conversation.

Although the USA has nuclear bombs, they cannot be used in Russia because radiation could easily land in EU countries. That is, nuclear bombs cannot be safely used to injure Russia without injuring NATO countries.

 

[dotr]

March 9 2022

''Russia destroy Ukrainian maternity hospital in Mariupol''

 

[Herat]

Commonwealth Nations, like Canada (the second largest country in the world) and the UK may feel the same - that NATO would not be the same without them. However, the goals of NATO are so important to democratic countries that Canada and the UK do not have that conversation.

Although the USA has nuclear bombs, they cannot be used in Russia because radiation could easily land in EU countries. That is, nuclear bombs cannot be safely used to injure Russia without injuring NATO countries.

Wow, otto

That is a very serious consideration for NATO.

It would seem the threat of nuclear weapons then becomes a one-way peril, with the disadvantage Europe and the entire NATO alliance.

Putin has clearly put this into the calculus

 

[worldwatcher]

Ukraine also started the Chernobyl meltdown hysteria. And the Red Cross symbol issue. Jmo

I'm not saying they aren't stressed out or such. But why turn this huge turmoil? It detracts from the main issues.

Everyone lose their minds over the Red Cross. Meanwhile, the Red Cross is trying desperately to evacuate civilians from a war zone.

Jmo

Guess I am in limbo here...

I do believe that Putin wants to win ,no matter the cost!
Also, I do think that Ukraine can be right, when it comes down to power plants and nuclear.I hope not ,but that is wishful thinking/hoping...

I do think Ukraine has good insight in Russia and Putin,due to the fact ,their struggle of becoming independent distanced from Russia.


I do think that Putin suffers from mental illness and he won't stop!

Weakness of Russian army increases the chance of nuclear battle'

" The chance that Poland will lend fighter planes to Ukraine seems to have decreased. According to Defense reporter Olof van Joolen, the delivery of planes could be seen as an act of aggression towards Russia, which could further escalate the conflict. In this new episode of the Ukraine Update, Van Joolen also discusses what the current state of the Russian army means for the battle in Ukraine."

‘Zwakte Russisch leger maakt kans op nucleaire strijd groter’

There is a podcast included in this link.