Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #5

[Kiranerys]

Putin meets 'children's rights commissioner' in Moscow... as brutal shelling of Ukraine kills kids | Daily Mail Online

Seriously?????

 

[dotr]

Putin meets 'children's rights commissioner' in Moscow... as brutal shelling of Ukraine kills kids | Daily Mail Online

Seriously?????

From link..
''Putin held the meeting to discuss changes to the law which will allow Russians to adopt Ukrainian orphans, after his forces killed their parents.

The changes will mean children from Donetsk and Luhansk who do not have Russian citizenship will qualify for adoption.

Putin said in the meeting: 'These are extraordinary circumstances and it seems to me that we need to think not about bureaucratic delays, but about the interests of children. ''

Could this be an emotional ''commodity'' Putin grab?
Adoption Costs, Adoption Fees, Adoption Fees Ukraine | Our Fees - Adoption in Ukraine
''Actually US citizens CAN'T adopt Caucasian healthy infants anywhere in the world or it will take at least 5-8 years and cost tons of dollars. Ukraine does not have healthy children under 5 y.o. and under our laws adoption of children under 5 y.o. is forbidden. There is no alternative to surrogacy nowadays as adoption of european babies is forbidden in all countries and India banned surrogacy for foreigners in 2015.''

''Compare Surrogacy Total Cost
In the US 110-140 thousands total
100%
In Ukraine 33-42 thousands total
35%''

 

[gitana1]

That's an interesting question. If the following is correct--they would actually detonate the missiles when they were outside of Earth's atmosphere.

"The GMD system aims to protect the U.S. homeland from intermediate and long-range intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) by destroying the incoming warhead in its midcourse phase, outside of the Earth’s atmosphere. First deployed in 2004, this system currently comprises 40 ground-based interceptors at Fort Greely in Alaska and four at Vandenburg Air Force Base in California, in addition to associated satellite and radar systems. The Pentagon is also constructing a new missile field at Fort Greely, which is slated to host 20 new interceptors, bringing the eventual total to 64 interceptors."
​

Fact sheet: U.S. Ballistic Missile Defense - Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation

That’s good to know.

 

[gitana1]

From link..
''Putin held the meeting to discuss changes to the law which will allow Russians to adopt Ukrainian orphans, after his forces killed their parents.

The changes will mean children from Donetsk and Luhansk who do not have Russian citizenship will qualify for adoption.

Putin said in the meeting: 'These are extraordinary circumstances and it seems to me that we need to think not about bureaucratic delays, but about the interests of children. ''

This is horrific. What a .

 

[otto]

Wow, otto

That is a very serious consideration for NATO.

It would seem the threat of nuclear weapons then becomes a one-way peril, with the disadvantage Europe and the entire NATO alliance.

Putin has clearly put this into the calculus

Absolutely! Russia can drop a nuclear bomb in Europe or North America, and he couldn't care less about who suffers. However, the EU knows that when Chernobyl malfunctioned, the radiation winds blew over Western Europe. The same thing could happen if the USA, or any other country, dropped a nuclear bomb in Russia.

 

[worldwatcher]

From link..
''Putin held the meeting to discuss changes to the law which will allow Russians to adopt Ukrainian orphans, after his forces killed their parents.

The changes will mean children from Donetsk and Luhansk who do not have Russian citizenship will qualify for adoption.

Putin said in the meeting: 'These are extraordinary circumstances and it seems to me that we need to think not about bureaucratic delays, but about the interests of children. ''

I am speechless

 

[gitana1]

Do you live in a NATO country? Is it participating in this conflict?

Whats clear today is the US did not agree to "this deal" with Poland. Why would the US trade our F series fighter jets for broken down planes left from a previous Russian conflict? Why did Poland make a public statement, even if a deal was in the works? Why did they feel they had to make a snide (mo) comment? ....Russia can talk to Washington about the planes...or something to that affect. This whole plane story was generated out of Poland, to obtain two Patriot Missile Systems. Moo....

Russia-Ukraine war: US rejects Polish plan to offer jets to Ukraine; Russia accused of breaking Mariupol ceasefire – live | World news | The Guardian
34m ago 21:42

The US Government may have opposed a Polish plan to ship jet fighters to Ukraine but it will be sending two Patriot anti-missile batteries stationed in Europe to Poland.

The reason they would trade is because Ukrainian pilots can’t operate our planes but they can operate the old Soviet-style planes. My understanding of the deal was Poland would supply Ukraine with the old planes and in exchange we would supply them with our fighter jets. It was to be a way of helping Ukraine without directly providing such weaponry.

I’m not sure why Poland discussed the deal. But it certainly ended it.

 

[branmuffin]

Quite possibly, or also, possibly, it's a mindset he's trying to trigger in the Russian people.

It's always helpful, when you've been a dictator for decades, to encourage your populace (and your internal enemies), to see you as the defender of some kind of value system that makes you all feel special.

It's also important for leaders who are losing their grip on power to find an enemy - preferably a small and helpless one - to unite your people around you.

Whether Putin cares most about the destiny of Russia, or the destiny of Putin, is a question. IMO, dictators really only care about themselves, but that's just my opinion.

Quite possibly you are correct but never underestimate the pride a country has for their birthright. I say that because Putin didn't grow up in a vacuum. He operates like many battered countries do; bolster civic pride in your history and your fight, kind of like Americans do when they fly the Gadsen flag. The intention of the Gadsen flag is, and I quote from Wiki "Its design proclaims an assertive warning of vigilance and willingness to act in defense against coercion." In the brain of Putin I can see him co-opting that term in reference to the creeping westernization of countries who are now members of NATO on Russia's doorstep. It is very similar to the mindset the US had, the fear that countries in Central and South America which had democratically elected governments (granted they leaned socially left) so the US fought proxy wars aiding the Sandinista's and other rebel forces to help topple governments they viewed as a threat to their security. That isn't a condemnation of US's self interests and ignoring Putin's murderous push in Ukraine, but we would be remiss if we didn't see vestiges of the same type of behaviors we ourselves have ignored by our own countries, albeit on a smaller scale, and by proxy. Scale doesn't matter to those whose lives were upended in the very same way.

 

[Kiranerys]

I am speechless

Right?.

What is he thinking? He can't make Ukraine Russian again so he will kill its citizens and steal their children?

 

[gitana1]

I agree with Rutte on this one. I do know a few people ,with Russian roots,who are living here and they are ordinary people,like you and me!

This is making it only worse.They do have families,who are also victims of this insane war!
Beside that,there are many protest going on in Russia!

Agreed. As long as they’re not wearing Z’s, I’m good.

 

[Elley Mae]

On the topic of Oil

U.S. ties easing of Venezuela sanctions to direct oil supply

U.S. ties easing of Venezuela sanctions to direct oil supply

…

Venezuela releases 2 imprisoned Americans after rare trip by U.S. officials

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...imprisoned-americans-citgo6-gustavo-cardenas/

 

[CSIDreamer]

I've recently joined the debate and am not clear...is it about WSers need for accuracy, or about the 44 million Ukrainians need for accuracy?

We've been discussing the flurry of misinformation from all sides. You have all these different sources right in the thick of things, contributing. We're talking about Ukraine. Every. Single. Issue.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Imo,it happens all the time:

"Old images, fiction films and even video games have all been used to spread fake news stories in war-torn Syria -- creating all the more work for a media collective debunking them."

Activists debunk war-torn Syria's fake news - France 24

How Syria’s war of disinformation reshaped the world | Borzou Daragahi

How Syria's disinformation wars destroyed the co-founder of the White Helmets

There is a saying here :
[All is fair in love and war]

It really does. And its sad. The truth is horrific without doctoring it.

 

[Elley Mae]

"The Kremlin knows it can try to extract concessions, whether from Ukraine or the West, by saber-rattling its last remaining card in the deck: nuclear weapons," Andrei Kozyrev wrote. "The ultimate conclusion here is that the West should not agree to any unilateral concessions or limit its support of Ukraine too much for fear of nuclear war."

Kozyrev, who served as Russia’s foreign minister between 1991 and 1996, claimed that Putin was still a "rational actor" in a series of thoughts posted on Twitter Sunday.

Putin, he argued, instead has possibly "started to believe his own propagandists," such as a "Nazi-Bandera junta" running the country.

Former Russian minister says Putin is 'rational,' West shouldn't 'limit Ukraine support over nuclear fear'

 

[shotgun09]

Fear not, all doubters!!!
Sean Penn is helping....

Sean Penn
@SeanPenn
I JUST got off a call with President Zelensky’s Chief of staff, Andriy Yermak. Somewhere in the bureaucratic chain between our White House & the Polish Gov., the desperately NEEDED jets are not yet delivered to Ukraine. Public outcry may find the bottleneck.

https://twitter.com/SeanPenn/status/1501603494725259264

<modsnip>

Goodness...

 

[CSIDreamer]

Guess I am in limbo here...

I do believe that Putin wants to win ,no matter the cost!
Also, I do think that Ukraine can be right, when it comes down to power plants and nuclear.I hope not ,but that is wishful thinking/hoping...

I do think Ukraine has good insight in Russia and Putin,due to the fact ,their struggle of becoming independent distanced from Russia.


I do think that Putin suffers from mental illness and he won't stop!

Weakness of Russian army increases the chance of nuclear battle'

" The chance that Poland will lend fighter planes to Ukraine seems to have decreased. According to Defense reporter Olof van Joolen, the delivery of planes could be seen as an act of aggression towards Russia, which could further escalate the conflict. In this new episode of the Ukraine Update, Van Joolen also discusses what the current state of the Russian army means for the battle in Ukraine."

‘Zwakte Russisch leger maakt kans op nucleaire strijd groter’

There is a podcast included in this link.

I agree. I dont think Putin cares what he needs to do to "win". JMO

 

[gitana1]

I'll have to go by there & take a picture!

And post it!!

 

[gitana1]

Fear not, all doubters!!!
Sean Penn is helping....

Sean Penn
@SeanPenn
I JUST got off a call with President Zelensky’s Chief of staff, Andriy Yermak. Somewhere in the bureaucratic chain between our White House & the Polish Gov., the desperately NEEDED jets are not yet delivered to Ukraine. Public outcry may find the bottleneck.

https://twitter.com/SeanPenn/status/1501603494725259264

<modsnip>

Goodness...

Oh man!

 

[Sillybilly]

Thread closed.

There are a ton of alerts and many pages to review for bickering, etc.

Check back in an hour.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

We haven't finished cleanup but are reopening the thread with the following caveat:

Stop all bickering, politicizing, and ongoing debate over the USA/Poland jet fighter issue and move on or Time Outs will be issued.