Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #7

[Charlot123]

I remember it also...and I felt while Biden's speech was well done, it put me on edge like never before especially after hearing what this fool had to say.

"The Kremlin again raised the spectre of the use of nuclear weapons in the war with Ukraine as Russian forces struggled to hold a key city in the south of the country.

Dmitry Medvedev, a former Russian president who is deputy chairman of the country’s security council, said Moscow could strike against an enemy that only used conventional weapons while Vladimir Putin’s defence minister claimed nuclear “readiness” was a priority."


Russia reasserts right to use nuclear weapons in Ukraine

Can’t call him a fool, but in case of a large-scale conflict, commanders-in-chief have to be measured. I miss Obama. JMO.

About what Biden said. I always turn to history. I believe that things work better from the inside, and who wants a large-scale conflict, in which cockroaches are predicted to survive? Not me.

Now about propaganda. Biden’s words were good for Poland. But Poland is not invading Russia.

Now look at the life of an average Russian. One can easily get behind bars for calling Ukraine situation “a war”. People can not protest. They have no access to FB, IG, Tik Tok (I know they liked these ones). Only state TV. What they say? I can tell you, “the whole world is against us”. These numbers of their kids killed in Ukraine- do they see them? Maybe, they hear some gossips. They now rely on “sarafan radio” (an old term meaning word of mouth) and…state TV.

In such a situation, calling for physical removal of their leader has the opposite effect. So far, maybe few in Russia believed what the TV was saying. It was called “a zombie-box”. What people in Russia saw was the rouble going down and products disappearing, and maybe, some, the bodies of killed soldiers coming back. But showing the US leader calling for physical removal of Russian leader (I bet it will be shown on TV, or commented on in some way) has the opposite effect - proof that Putin was right when he spoke about NATO.

JMO. I think you know my stance on this war, but politics and words…

 

[Arkay]

Putin clearly lives with the principle of Louis XIV, “après-moi, le déluge” (after me, the flood). Dictators don’t care, the flood or the nuclear fire.

This is what I wonder. Are we sure? There surely is a group supporting him, probably a couple of old “grey cardinals”. How do we know that they are different?

I agree with both of your statements. Sorry to be annoying, but I think it was Louis XV who said that. But Louis XIV, the Sun King, said "l'état c'est moi," (I am the State), which is how I see Putin. He is the Russian nation, in his view, like Louis XIV was France.

So who comes after him? If he is disposed of (fingers crossed), most of his inner circle are truly committed to him, it seems. Many are childhood friends. All are in power due to him. Putin is the nation now, but would his successor be just the same?

IMO there would have to be a revolution to overthrow Putin's entire circle. I don't know that that would happen.

 

[PommyMommy]

MAR 27, 2022
What weapons for Ukraine would help it win the war against Russia | Euromaidan Press
After a month of the Russo-Ukrainian war, the frontlines have stabilized, but the suffering of the local population under Russian control has only increased, with more shelling and repressions reported. If Ukraine had more offensive weapons, i.e. artillery, missile systems, and fighter jets, it could counterattack the invader and rapidly end the war, Ukrainian military experts say.

[...]

Speaking at the NATO summit in Brussels on 24 March, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said that he is grateful to the individual members of the Alliance that shared with Ukraine what they had to combat Russia. However, Ukraine had asked NATO to supply 1% of their tanks and 1% of aircraft and to provide anti-ship weapons and means of air defense. This is crucial not only for air protection but also to “unblock our cities that are now dying – Mariupol, Berdyansk, Melitopol, others,” Zelenskyy said, stressing further:

“Ukraine asked for your planes. So that we do not lose so many people. And you have thousands of fighter jets! But we haven’t been given any yet.”

[...]

Artillery ammunition and artillery systems is the kind of weapons Ukraine needs to counterattack
[...]

The artillery is used around Kyiv, Chernihiv, and Kharkiv, in the south of the country, and in the Donbas area. The commanders in each direction of defense and attack must have both conventional artillery in the brigade along with special artillery brigades. In addition, Ukraine is forming new divisions, which must be reinforced by artillery to counterattack successfully. It is important to note that Ukrainian artillery is mostly 30 plus years old. In summary, supplies of artillery units from the West and ammunition would be helpful, if not crucial, to carry out successful counterattacks and repel Russian invaders.

[...]

Mobility – another crucial need to counterattack
... Currently, the mobility of Ukrainian troops is reinforced mainly by volunteers who are buying SUVs themselves. If NATO is not providing Ukraine Humvees because of their complicated servicing demands, there remain several other options to strengthen Ukrainian mobility for counterattacks. For example, NATO could provide semi-military SUVs. No matter how small the weight of a Javelin or other system, one can’t carry it on one’s shoulders for a long time.

[...]

While Bayraktar and Switchblade combat drones play their role, they can’t replace fighter jets, of which Ukraine does not have enough to support full-scale counterattacks
It is difficult to compare drones and fighter jets, they are not substitutes.

[...]

Offensive operations require a completely different firepower from a defensive one — much more aircraft, artillery, drones to create the necessary density of fire, to support the offensive forces. What the West is giving now for Ukraine is only for defense. There are almost no weapons for the offensive.

[...]

 

[mickey2942]

I agree with both of your statements. Sorry to be annoying, but I think it was Louis XV who said that. But Louis XIV, the Sun King, said "l'état c'est moi," (I am the State), which is how I see Putin. He is the Russian nation, in his view, like Louis XIV was France.

So who comes after him? If he is disposed of (fingers crossed), most of his inner circle are truly committed to him, it seems. Many are childhood friends. All are in power due to him. Putin is the nation now, but would his successor be just the same?

IMO there would have to be a revolution to overthrow Putin's entire circle. I don't know that that would happen.

Maybe just someone more balanced would be welcome. Someone who wants to build up Russia to be better. This action by Putin definitely didn't do anything to improve the Russian economy or help the people who live in Russia. That is what a good leader should do.

 

[sunshineray]

Jeremy Kryt
Updated Mar. 01, 2022
How U.S. Special Forces Can Fight Putin Without Starting World War III (thedailybeast.com)
''According to former U.S. Army Ranger Tom Amenta, there are advantages to having on-site, operational intelligence gathering in Ukraine that can’t be equaled by remote technologies like satellite imagery or radio signal interceptions.''

''When it comes to gathering HUMINT, one option for elite U.S. forces is the use of Special Operation Groups (SOGs). Amenta described the typical SOG as a small, covert, reconnaissance task force, often made up of intelligence agents from the NSA or CIA, paired with Special Forces soldiers like Green Berets or Delta Force commandos. In order to avoid detection, the SOGs are able to work undercover within local populations.''

rbbm.
Could Vladimir Putin be ousted over his Ukraine invasion? (theconversation.com)
''The defection of powerful elites, rather than civil dissent, is almost always necessary to remove an authoritarian regime. The split is essentially between “hardliners” who will defend the regime by any means, and “softliners” who have their doubts and want reform.

Reluctant to give up power
Research also shows that in personalist autocracies like Russia’s — regimes in which nearly all power lies in the hands of a single person — dictators rarely relinquish power through negotiation.
This is because such leaders are typically determined to cling to power, and only a small and tightly controlled circle of people have any influence on them.
By all accounts in Putin’s case, the pandemic has exacerbated this, and his circle is much smaller and more hardline authoritarian than it used to be.''

''The military in Russia has historically been resistant to launching coups — largely due to Communist party oversight in the U.S.S.R. and a continuation of these habits in the post-Soviet era, along with a heavy dose of infiltration by the security services.''

''The former KGB
Finally, state security services might provide the most likely source of an insider coup. Putin is a creature of these agencies, but tensions are surfacing.
Putin recently placed the head of the Federal Security Bureau’s (responsible for external intelligence) under house arrest due to bad intelligence about prospects for a quick and successful victory in Ukraine.
An elite “palace coup” is possible, particularly if several of these groups join forces to forcibly remove Putin or persuade him to step down.
These processes would take time to develop, and they may be unlikely since major cracks have not yet emerged. But if there is no coup, Russia’s path will unfortunately involve even more severe repression of its population and continuing devastation in Ukraine.''

March 20 2022 rbbm
Group of Russian elite plans to assassinate Putin by poison, claims Ukraine intelligence : The Tribune India
''The goal of this group is to remove Putin from power as soon as possible and restore economic ties with the West, destroyed by the war in Ukraine.

"A part of Russia's political elite sees Federal Security Service Director Alexander Bortnikov as Putin's successor. It is Bortnikov who has recently fallen out of favour with the Russian dictator. The official reason for the FSS leader's downfall is fatal miscalculations in the war against Ukraine", Ukraine intelligence has said, Ukrayinska Pravda reported.''

''It is known that Bortnikov and some other influential members of the Russian elite are considering various options for removing Putin from power. In particular, poisoning, sudden illness, or other "accident" is not excluded, the intelligence said.''

Very interesting stuff. IMO it seems to me, Ukrainian intelligence leaking the possible Bortnikov coup info is a try at misdirection or just to get Putin so paranoid and distrustful of the old guard that someone(s) in the up and comings will have a better pathway for carrying out coup or assassination.

AJMO

 

[Warwick1991]

For one head of a country to actively call for another head of country's overthrow is a slippery slope. He can say he's not worthy of his office but asking for his removal is calling for action. So the President of the US would be soliciting the removal of anther country's leader and the US is not officially at war with that country.

I know it sounds like yeah so what but it's a line. I mean Biden did call Putin a "butcher" the same day in Poland after meeting Ukrainian refugees.

Biden calls Putin 'a butcher' after meeting with refugees in Poland - CNNPolitics

There is continual Russian interference with the political system here in the US, including hacking into election software at various levels of government, hacking into personal email accounts of political figures, false flag political social media accounts, and an army of internet trolls on all kind of MSM sites. IMO, there's no doubt that Russia wants to overthrow the US government, determine the outcome of elections, and sow chaos and division. IMO there's no reason for an apology. With regard to overthrowing leadership, IMO Russia is ultimately doing the same thing.

 

[sunshineray]

NATO does not want to make any move that could trigger WWIII and escalate to the use of nuclear weapons. The decision to supply planes to Ukraine could be seen as crossing the line between defensive and offensive actions on NATO's part, hence the reluctance of NATO to go down that path.

There has been some talk of giving Ukraine parts of the fighter jet planes so that they could repair their own planes, but I don't know if that decison has been made yet, and which NATO country would supply the parts.

Yes I understand that and agreed wholeheartedly at first, until Putin abducted hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians from Mariupol and shipped them to camps in Russia, JUST like Hitler did with the Jewish people of Warsaw.

I think Ukraine desperately needs planes. I think they should be supplied with planes. I hope a way is found to do it covertly. And I pray the supply of antiaircraft and antimissile weapons continue to flow into Ukraine as well.

AJMO

 

[Arkay]

I do wish Zelensky would quit trying to draw other nations into this war. I get it that he wants support--and, who knows? In his position, I might do the same thing--but, I think it's dangerous to the world at large.

2.) Paint the dang planes bright yellow and blue! (Yes I'm being facetious, sort of) Ukraine needs planes, give them planes!

Speaking at the NATO summit in Brussels on 24 March, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said that he is grateful to the individual members of the Alliance that shared with Ukraine what they had to combat Russia. However, Ukraine had asked NATO to supply 1% of their tanks and 1% of aircraft and to provide anti-ship weapons and means of air defense. This is crucial not only for air protection but also to “unblock our cities that are now dying – Mariupol, Berdyansk, Melitopol, others,” Zelenskyy said, stressing further:

“Ukraine asked for your planes. So that we do not lose so many people. And you have thousands of fighter jets! But we haven’t been given any yet.”

@GRT I understand that Zelenskyy is relentless in asking for help, but IMO what else should he be doing to rescue his country when children and other innocents are being slaughtered in front of the entire world?

I think of it this way---if I were home with all the generations of my family and my home was invaded by murderers, if I could get out, I would be screaming for my neighbors to help us. If they tossed me weapons I would be so grateful, but if that wasn't enough to keep all my family alive (we range in age from 7 to nearly 90), and all my neighbors were just watching from their doorways, when would I stop screaming for more help? Especially if I knew my neighbors had enough weaponry to save us, but didn't want to be drawn into my battle?

I understand the implications of nuclear weapons and WWIII, but IMO Putin started WWWIII when he invaded a sovereign nation. People whom he had said were "his blood." People he has been destroying for a month and counting. Zelenskyy is asking for 1%, just enough to save whomever is left in Ukraine.

IMO

 

[sunshineray]

Can’t call him a fool, but in case of a large-scale conflict, commanders-in-chief have to be measured. I miss Obama. JMO.

About what Biden said. I always turn to history. I believe that things work better from the inside, and who wants a large-scale conflict, in which cockroaches are predicted to survive? Not me.

Now about propaganda. Biden’s words were good for Poland. But Poland is not invading Russia.

Now look at the life of an average Russian. One can easily get behind bars for calling Ukraine situation “a war”. People can not protest. They have no access to FB, IG, Tik Tok (I know they liked these ones). Only state TV. What they say? I can tell you, “the whole world is against us”. These numbers of their kids killed in Ukraine- do they see them? Maybe, they hear some gossips. They now rely on “sarafan radio” (an old term meaning word of mouth) and…state TV.

In such a situation, calling for physical removal of their leader has the opposite effect. So far, maybe few in Russia believed what the TV was saying. It was called “a zombie-box”. What people in Russia saw was the rouble going down and products disappearing, and maybe, some, the bodies of killed soldiers coming back. But showing the US leader calling for physical removal of Russian leader (I bet it will be shown on TV, or commented on in some way) has the opposite effect - proof that Putin was right when he spoke about NATO.

JMO. I think you know my stance on this war, but politics and words…

In my mind, any man (or woman , of course, but this case a man) who advocates for the use of nuclear weapons is a certainly a fool.

I understand the fear and the politics of words. What Biden said was not just for Poland's benefit and not just politics, IMO. He said what every normal person, without their ego engaged, would say if they really love their children more than themselves. AJMO

Biden knows the heartache of losing his children first hand. It was a very human utterance, what he said there at the end, albeit a step over THE line. I think most in the world realize that. JMO

 

[sunshineray]

I agree with both of your statements. Sorry to be annoying, but I think it was Louis XV who said that. But Louis XIV, the Sun King, said "l'état c'est moi," (I am the State), which is how I see Putin. He is the Russian nation, in his view, like Louis XIV was France.

So who comes after him? If he is disposed of (fingers crossed), most of his inner circle are truly committed to him, it seems. Many are childhood friends. All are in power due to him. Putin is the nation now, but would his successor be just the same?

IMO there would have to be a revolution to overthrow Putin's entire circle. I don't know that that would happen.

Yes just like, be careful what you wish for because you just might get it. It's a crap shoot for us to know, hopefully our foreign intelligence is on top of all that in a meaningful way. <3

 

[CSIDreamer]

Yes I understand that and agreed wholeheartedly at first, until Putin abducted hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians from Mariupol and shipped them to camps in Russia, JUST like Hitler did with the Jewish people of Warsaw.

I think Ukraine desperately needs planes. I think they should be supplied with planes. I hope a way is found to do it covertly. And I pray the supply of antiaircraft and antimissile weapons continue to flow into Ukraine as well.

AJMO

While no number is good, I am not under the impression hundreds of thousands have been abducted from Mariupol. JMO

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1507970512043098114?t=q7Qks0TUiainuHXjvazzZQ&s=19

️Mayor says 20,000-30,000 residents forcibly evacuated from Mariupol to Russia, Russian-occupied areas.

About 60,000 have been evacuated to Ukraine, Mariuol Mayor Vadym Boichenko told news agency UNIAN. He said that 50% of the city’s 540,000 residents have left since Feb. 24.

 

[sunshineray]

Maybe just someone more balanced would be welcome. Someone who wants to build up Russia to be better. This action by Putin definitely didn't do anything to improve the Russian economy or help the people who live in Russia. That is what a good leader should do.

Maybe a Russian woman this time would be a good change.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Who will talk to them? Well, nobody?

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1508097550171230217?t=3q5G6oN76hx5H41kp153mw&s=19

️ Turkey says the world ‘cannot burn bridges’ with Russia.

“If everybody burns bridges with Russia then who is going to talk to them at the end of the day,” said Ibrahim Kalin, Turkey’s presidential spokesman. However, he added that Kyiv needs more support.

 

[worldwatcher]

Not OT but the consequences in “our free world”

Meanwhile in The Netherlands:

Intelligence services want to use war to expand their own powers

Inlichtingendiensten willen oorlog gebruiken om eigen bevoegdheden te verruimen - Joop - BNNVARA

 

[sunshineray]

There is continual Russian interference with the political system here in the US, including hacking into election software at various levels of government, hacking into personal email accounts of political figures, false flag political social media accounts, and an army of internet trolls on all kind of MSM sites. IMO, there's no doubt that Russia wants to overthrow the US government, determine the outcome of elections, and sow chaos and division. IMO there's no reason for an apology. With regard to overthrowing leadership, IMO Russia is ultimately doing the same thing.

Absolutely, I have no qualms with anything you said. I didn't see it as an apology, just a correction of language/phrasing.

Like I linked in another post, Biden did call Putin a "butcher" that same day, when he visited the refugee camp and talked to them about what Putin had done to their homes and loved ones, no apology needed.

 

[PommyMommy]

Russia-Ukraine war latest: Macron warns against ‘escalation’ after Biden speech; Zelenskiy calls on west for planes and tanks | World news | The Guardian

The Ukrainian MP Lesia Vasylenko said people are starving and being forced to drink sewage water in Ukraine as the situation across the country worsens.

Speaking to Times Radio, Vasylenko said Kyiv is still facing attacks and suffering food scarcity while people are “made to stay in basements and metro stations”.

She said:

People are actually starving without food, and drinking sewage water [in Mariupol].

In Mariupol, thousands of people are getting forcefully deported across the border to Russia apparently to safety but then they are sent off in an unknown direction and nobody hears from them again.

So the atrocities, they’re just the same all over the place.

[...]

Ukraine said that Russia holding a referendum in occupied Ukrainian territory would have no legal basis and would face a strong response from the international community, deepening its global isolation.

The Russian-controlled Luhansk region in eastern Ukraine could hold a referendum soon on joining Russia, its local leader was quoted as saying.

“All fake referendums in the temporarily occupied territories are null and void and will have no legal validity,” Ukraine’s foreign ministry spokesperson Oleg Nikolenko said in a statement to Reuters.

“Instead, Russia will face an even stronger response from the international community, further deepening its global isolation.”

[...]

The UK government’s top legal adviser has appointed a war crimes lawyer to advise Ukraine over the Russian invasion.

The attorney general, Suella Braverman, announced on Sunday that Sir Howard Morrison QC will act as an independent adviser to Ukrainian prosecutor general Iryna Venediktova, PA Media reported.

Sir Howard has served as a judge at the international criminal tribunal for the former Yugoslavia and the international criminal court (ICC) for more than 12 years, including overseeing cases like that of the Serbian war criminal Radovan Karadžić.

[...]

The French foreign minister said on Sunday there would be “collective guilt” if nothing was done to help civilians in Mariupol, the Ukrainian city besieged by Russian forces.

“Mariupol is a striking example of a military siege, and military sieges are horrible wars because civil populations are massacred, annihilated. The suffering is terrible,” Jean-Yves Le Drian told the Doha Forum international conference.

“This is why there needs to be at least one moment when the civilian population can breathe,” he said, adding that this was what the French president Emmanuel Macron was working to secure.

Macron said on Friday he was seeking to hold more talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin in coming days about the situation in Ukraine and the initiative to help people leave Mariupol.

[...]

 

[sunshineray]

While no number is good, I am not under the impression hundreds of thousands have been abducted from Mariupol. JMO

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1507970512043098114?t=q7Qks0TUiainuHXjvazzZQ&s=19

️Mayor says 20,000-30,000 residents forcibly evacuated from Mariupol to Russia, Russian-occupied areas.

About 60,000 have been evacuated to Ukraine, Mariuol Mayor Vadym Boichenko told news agency UNIAN. He said that 50% of the city’s 540,000 residents have left since Feb. 24.

"Lyudmyla Denisova, Ukraine’s ombudsperson, said 402,000 people, including 84,000 children, had been taken to Russia.

The Kremlin gave nearly identical numbers for those who have been relocated, but said they wanted to go to Russia."

Moscow Has Forcibly Taken More than 400,000 Ukrainians to Russia, Ukraine Says

 

[sunshineray]

Who will talk to them? Well, nobody?

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1508097550171230217?t=3q5G6oN76hx5H41kp153mw&s=19

️ Turkey says the world ‘cannot burn bridges’ with Russia.

“If everybody burns bridges with Russia then who is going to talk to them at the end of the day,” said Ibrahim Kalin, Turkey’s presidential spokesman. However, he added that Kyiv needs more support.

I guess Turkey then? Probably China and North Korea too?

My heart is not full of hate for the Russian people on whole, just those who order and support the slaughter of innocent people. We can all burn the bridges to those folk for good, AJMO

 

[dotr]

Putin's security takes precautions months before any public appearance. PHOTO BY - /SANA/AFP via Getty Images
The special unit hand-picked to protect Vladimir Putin from assassination | National Post
Mar 05, 2022 rbbm.
''Bodyguards armed with kevlar umbrellas and bulletproof briefcases, body doubles at the ready and food tasters for every meal are just a few of those reportedly enlisted to protect the Russian leader from any attempts on his life.

Putin’s security team are hand-picked for their “operational psychology” and willingness to go on the offensive, according to Russia Beyond.''

''He’s protected by four squads in public. The first faction is visible and stays close to Putin, alert for any danger and willing to take a bullet for him. If they need to go on the offensive, each carries a 9mm Gurza pistol capable of shooting 40 bullets a minute.''

''A second set, dressed in plain clothes, blends in with the crowd. A third stands just outside the crowd, while the fourth are situated on rooftops with snipers at the ready.''

''IT personnel apparently place electronic jammers around his location to neutralize remote denotations and conduct electronic surveillance of cellphones in the vicinity.''

''The guards are replaced when they turn 35. In addition to being versed in politics (to understand who the president is meeting with), they must also understand foreign languages and be dressed in light overcoats even in frigid temperatures so as to move without restriction.''

Could a Kremlin assassin get to Putin? | The Spectator
March 7 2022 by Nigel Jones rbbm
''Putin is protected 24/7 by one of the world’s strongest security details, who have sealed him in a closed bubble. All access to him is strictly – almost manically – controlled, in much the same way as it was for Stalin and Hitler.''

''If Putin is to be stopped, ousted, and arrested or assassinated, the authors of such an attempt will have to come from within the clique who surround him. Desperate times spawn desperate remedies, and only when the clique think that their own futures are directly imperilled by Putin’s increasingly dangerous actions are they likely to act.''

''Putin has already publicly humiliated members of his inner circle by berating them when they have raised the mildest of questions about his actions. They cannot have much affection for this supremely unlovable man. But will their growing doubts about him overcome their fears for their own futures?''

''As the options open to the kleptocrats and and former secret policemen who Putin has protected and promoted close down, and the rage of the Russian people themselves rise, the best hope for ending this crisis may well rest with bad men acting to bring down the still worse and possibly deranged dictator who is leading them and Russia into the abyss''

 

[sunshineray]

@GRT I understand that Zelenskyy is relentless in asking for help, but IMO what else should he be doing to rescue his country when children and other innocents are being slaughtered in front of the entire world?

I think of it this way---if I were home with all the generations of my family and my home was invaded by murderers, if I could get out, I would be screaming for my neighbors to help us. If they tossed me weapons I would be so grateful, but if that wasn't enough to keep all my family alive (we range in age from 7 to nearly 90), and all my neighbors were just watching from their doorways, when would I stop screaming for more help? Especially if I knew my neighbors had enough weaponry to save us, but didn't want to be drawn into my battle?

I understand the implications of nuclear weapons and WWIII, but IMO Putin started WWWIII when he invaded a sovereign nation. People whom he had said were "his blood." People he has been destroying for a month and counting. Zelenskyy is asking for 1%, just enough to save whomever is left in Ukraine.

IMO

Amen, so well said <3