Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #7

[cujenn81]

Perhaps it is not a US decision. Perhaps it is a decision to be made by Europe.
Ukraine is surrounded by mostly-friendly countries who may not want an air battle happening on their continent.

The countries in Europe are relatively 'small'. How would an air battle be contained to just Ukraine airspace? With no spillover in other countries.

It would be kind of like an air battle happening over Texas, and trying to not allow it to affect Louisiana or New Mexico.

I think it must be a difficult balancing act, for President Biden to try to help while also honouring other countries concerns. Macron was upset at some of the words that have been spoken.
,

Air battles between Russia and Ukraine have been ongoing since the start of this war.

How Ukraine’s Outgunned Air Force Is Fighting Back Against Russian Jets

Nearly a month into the fighting, one of the biggest surprises of the war in Ukraine is Russia’s failure to defeat the Ukrainian Air Force. Military analysts had expected Russian forces to quickly destroy or paralyze Ukraine’s air defenses and military aircraft, yet neither has happened. Instead, Top Gun-style aerial dogfights, rare in modern warfare, are now raging above the country.

The success of Ukrainian pilots has helped protect Ukrainian soldiers on the ground and prevented wider bombing in cities, since pilots have intercepted some Russian cruise missiles. Ukrainian officials also say the country’s military has shot down 97 fixed-wing Russian aircraft. That number could not be verified but the crumpled remnants of Russian fighter jets have crashed into rivers, fields and houses.

They are vastly outnumbered: Russia is believed to fly some 200 sorties per day while Ukraine flies five to 10.

Dave Deptula, dean of the Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies and the principal attack planner for the Desert Storm air campaign in Iraq, said the impressive performance of the Ukrainian pilots had helped counter their disadvantages in numbers. He said Ukraine now has roughly 55 operational fighter jets, a number that is dwindling from shoot-downs and mechanical failures, as Ukrainian pilots are “stressing them to max performance.”

Mr. Deptula said transferring these jets into Ukraine is critical. “Without resupply,” he said, “they will run out of airplanes before they run out of pilots.”

 

[SouthAussie]

Air battles between Russia and Ukraine have been ongoing since the start of this war.

How Ukraine’s Outgunned Air Force Is Fighting Back Against Russian Jets

Nearly a month into the fighting, one of the biggest surprises of the war in Ukraine is Russia’s failure to defeat the Ukrainian Air Force. Military analysts had expected Russian forces to quickly destroy or paralyze Ukraine’s air defenses and military aircraft, yet neither has happened. Instead, Top Gun-style aerial dogfights, rare in modern warfare, are now raging above the country.

The success of Ukrainian pilots has helped protect Ukrainian soldiers on the ground and prevented wider bombing in cities, since pilots have intercepted some Russian cruise missiles. Ukrainian officials also say the country’s military has shot down 97 fixed-wing Russian aircraft. That number could not be verified but the crumpled remnants of Russian fighter jets have crashed into rivers, fields and houses.

They are vastly outnumbered: Russia is believed to fly some 200 sorties per day while Ukraine flies five to 10.

Dave Deptula, dean of the Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies and the principal attack planner for the Desert Storm air campaign in Iraq, said the impressive performance of the Ukrainian pilots had helped counter their disadvantages in numbers. He said Ukraine now has roughly 55 operational fighter jets, a number that is dwindling from shoot-downs and mechanical failures, as Ukrainian pilots are “stressing them to max performance.”

Mr. Deptula said transferring these jets into Ukraine is critical. “Without resupply,” he said, “they will run out of airplanes before they run out of pilots.”

Yes, understood. Macron expressed his concern about escalation. He may have been saying what he and his neighbours are fearful of.
We would probably have to live in one of the near-to-Ukraine countries to feel their viewpoint.

 

[PommyMommy]

[URL='https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/mar/28/russia-ukraine-war-latest-news-zelenskiy-putin-live-updates']Russia-Ukraine war latest: Abramovich and Ukrainian negotiator may have been poisoned; Zelenskiy tells world leaders ‘fear makes you an accomplice’ | World news | The Guardian

3h ago 19:26[/URL]
'Fear always makes you an accomplice,' Zelenskiy warns
Wrapping up his late-night address, Zelenskiy urged other countries to act with courage.

"Ukrainians should not die just because someone cannot find enough courage to hand over the necessary weapons to Ukraine.

Fear always makes you an accomplice."

[...]

3h ago19:19
Weak sanctions creates 'dangerous illusion' for Russia, Zelenskiy says
[...]

"We went through this story last year when we said that strong preventive sanctions against Russia were needed to prevent an invasion. The preventive package was not made. A full-scale war has begun."

[...]

"Just think about what it all came down to. Waiting for chemical weapons... We, living people, have to wait… Doesn’t everything that the Russian military is doing and has already done deserve an oil embargo? Don’t phosphorus bombs deserve that? Do the shelled chemical production or nuclear power plant deserve that?"

Zelenskiy urged for sanctions packages to be “effective and substantial”.

"If the sanctions packages are weak or do not work enough, if they can be circumvented, it creates a dangerous illusion for the Russian leadership that they can continue to afford what they are doing now. And Ukrainians pay for it with their lives. Thousands of lives.”

[...]

2h ago 20:41
Ukraine’s military has just released its latest operational report as of 10pm this evening, claiming Russian troops are “weakened, disoriented” and “cut off from logistics and the main forces”.

“The command of the Russian occupying forces is trying to compensate for the decline in the combat potential of the enemy’s units by indiscriminate artillery fire and rocket-bomb attacks, thus destroying the infrastructure of Ukrainian cities,” officials from the general staff of the armed forces said.

Ukrainian forces “continue to maintain the circular defence of the city of Mariupol and defend and deter the advance of the enemy in the Chernihiv region,” the report added.

Ukrainian forces are also continuing to defend Kyiv and the settlements of Motyzhyn, Lisne, Kapitanivka and Dmytrivka, officials said.

[...]

 

[PommyMommy]

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 7 hrs ago
Russian occupiers torture a man to death in Trostyanets, Sumy Oblast. According to Prosecutor General’s Office, Ukrainian military found the body of an unidentified man severely mutilated in a garage on March 28, two days after they recaptured the city from Russian forces.

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
The Russian occupation forces collect passport data in occupied territories for staging "referendums" In Kherson & Zaporizhia oblast, President's Office head Mykhailo Podoliak says, they pay in rubles for the data to later use them in "referendums" to proclaim sham "republics"

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 6 hrs ago
The Times: Putin tells he will 'thrash' Ukraine after receiving note from Zelensky. According to the Times, Russian oligarch Roman Abramovich claimed he presented Putin with a handwritten note from Zelensky, outlining the terms Ukraine would consider to end the war.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter
“Tell him I will thrash them,” said Putin, according to Abramovich and the Times, in response.

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
"I've instructed to dismantle all billboards except those indicating where the Russian ship and the invading forces should go. Their metal [constructions] will be used for the needs of the defense forces of Odesa Oblast" - region's head Marchenko

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
FM Dmitry Kuleba on tomorrow's talks between the Ukrainian and Russian delegations in Istanbul: Ukraine does not trade people, lands, and sovereignty, this is President Zelenskyy's position on the negotiations.

NEXTA on Twitter - 5 hrs ago
#Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba - about tomorrow's talks in #Istanbul
The minimum program is to solve humanitarian issues, the maximum program is to reach a ceasefire and a stable agreement on it.

NEXTA on Twitter
At the moment the sides have not agreed on a single point.
#Ukraine will not give up its sovereignty, territories and people.
If #Russia again speaks in the language of ultimatums and propaganda clichés, the negotiations will end with nothing.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter
Russian occupiers kidnap another Melitopol official. According to Melitopol Mayor Ivan Fedorov, who was released from Russian captivity on March 16, Russians abducted Iryna Shcherbak, Melitopol City Council’s head of education department.

NEXTA on Twitter - 4 hrs ago
The #US Department of Defense plans to speed up production of Stinger anti-aircraft missile systems and Javelin anti-tank missiles to replenish its own depleted stocks as the Pentagon continues to send those systems to #Ukrainian forces. Pentagon will accelerate production of missiles Ukraine has requested to refill US stockpiles - CNNPolitics

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter
Ukrainian forces ‘continue to maintain circular defense’ of Mariupol. The Ukrainian general staff said its forces “continue to maintain the circular defense” inside the port city of Mariupol, even as Russian forces consolidated control around the city.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 2 hrs ago
Ukraine shoots down 17 Russian aerial targets. The Ukrainian Armed Forces report having destroyed eight planes, four UAVs, three helicopters, and two missiles.

 

[Charlot123]

OMG his skin was peeling? What the heck would do that besides radiation?

a very interesting condition, TEN (toxic epidemal necrolysis, aka Lyell syndrome).

enjoy… Toxic epidermal necrolysis - Wikipedia

I am interested in it because it was cited as the reason for the death of a brilliant Russian journalist, Yuri Schekhochikhin.

Yuri Shchekochikhin - Wikipedia

It is worth reading. His last book. “Slaves or KGB”, was dedicated to people working as KGB informants.

But I remember him by one article summarizing what had happened in Russia: “the property of the Communist party was monopolized by the KGB”. I might be wrong, but I know that Schekhochikhin was investigating the mystery of the disappeared “party gold”, and knew a lot.

He died of Lyell syndrome. In 2003. There were always questions if he was poisoned.

So skin peeling might be a mild form of TEN… they just didn’t give enough toxin to Abramovich because they didn’t plan to.

As to these poisonings…you know, when they poisoned Aleksandr Litvinenko with polonium, he died. When Markov was pricked by the ricin-containing umbrella tip, he died, too. In Salisbury, AFAIK, Skripals survived, and the executors, Petrov and Boshirov, became the food for Russian memes. Nemtsov was killed. Navalny survived. So either “when they do want to poison, they poison, and Abramovich was probably too anxious, no one targeted him”; or “they wanted to show Abramovich that he, too, is not untouchable”, or what we are seeing is loss of professionalism, can’t poison when they want to.

Who curates GRU, once-omnipotent military intelligence theoretically responsible for such operations? Well, basically, the same bureaucrats, Shoigu and Gerasimov. Can they do anything right? Shoigu served under 17 PM’s, most of them reflecting bureaucratic leapfrogging of Yeltsin’s cabinet, 9 PMs in 8 years or so. Too malleable.

 

[LadyL]

Disappearances and detentions in Ukraine: They tried to reveal what life was like under Russian occupation

 

[Elley Mae]

Roman Abramovich has been seen at peace talks between Ukrainian and Russian delegations in Istanbul.

Roman Abramovich seen at peace talks between Russia and Ukraine in Istanbul after allegations he was poisoned

The billionaire was spotted this morning with both delegations wearing a suit and translation headphones.

 

[GRT]

Biden says his comment about Putin not remaining in power reflects moral outrage, not a policy change: Live Ukraine updates

“I'm not walking anything back,” Biden said Monday from the White House. “The fact of the matter is I was expressing the moral outrage I felt toward the way Putin is dealing and the actions of this man, which is just brutality.”

Biden noted that he felt that outrage after meeting with refugees in Warsaw, Poland.

“I want to make it clear, I wasn't then nor am I now articulating a policy change,” he said. “I was expressing moral outrage that I feel. I make no apologies for it."

The president also said he doesn't believe his comments complicate the diplomatic efforts to end the war or escalate the hostilities.

"What complicates the situation at the moment is the escalatory efforts of Putin to continue to engage in carnage,'' Biden said, "the kind of behavior that makes the whole world say, 'My God, what is this man doing?'''

I wish Biden would just be quiet. I concur with his outrage, but his comments are dangerous. The White House has to keep correcting and spinning what he says. Now, his comment has been denounced by our allies, so it's best he just stays out of the fray, so to speak. JMOO and all just my own opinion.

 

[sunshineray]

Putin has a whole arsenal. Here is Navalny with a green face, though obviously this is not the same incident as when he almost died of Novichuk poisoning.

Also, Viktor Yushenko, the former president of Ukraine, you can see the before and after pictures of his face but I don’t recall what poison or chemical weapon was used.

Dying in the hospital bed is Litivenko, and I believe that time it was polonium in his teacup.

I think but am not sure that the father and daughter who were poisoned in London were also Novichuk victims? They survived but a woman going through the trash touched the containers and died.

Just ghastly </3

 

[sunshineray]

IMO, Putin does not want peace.
This is definitely a red flag!

"Dawn Sturgess dabbed on what she believed to be perfume from a small bottle.

But the 44-year-old British woman was actually applying a Soviet-era nerve agent that had previously sickened a former Russian spy and his daughter, three sources briefed on the UK poisoning investigation told CNN on Thursday.

The bottle was the source of Sturgess' fatal dose, according to investigators."

She thought it was perfume. It was actually a Soviet-era nerve agent | CNN

It's ghastly </3 and dastardly

 

[PommyMommy]

Russia-Ukraine war latest: Moscow says it will ‘drastically reduce military activity’ around Kyiv and Chernihiv – live | World news | The Guardian

3h ago 05:39
Our correspondent Ruth Michaelson is in Istanbul, and brings us this analysis of the presence of sanctioned oligarch Roman Abramovich in today’s peace talks:

Roman Abramovich and Ukrainian MP Rustem Umerov had reportedly arranged a series of talks between them at five-star hotels across Istanbul. Abramovich’s presence inside the negotiation room alongside Turkish presidential spokesperson İbrahim Kalın suggested to some that this parallel track of negotiations might have ended in favour of these official talks. But others were not convinced.

“A presence in the room doesn’t mean the parallel track has collapsed,” said Sinan Ülgen, of the Istanbul thinktank the Centre for Economics and Foreign Policy Studies (EDAM).

“We can read into [Abramovich’s presence] the receptivity of both Kyiv and Moscow to Turkey’s involvement. Not only is Turkey acting formally as a facilitator but it also has an active role in this second track of diplomacy to diffuse the conflict.”

“From a Turkish perspective, what matters is that Turkey remains a central piece of diplomatic efforts going forward, first to agree on a ceasefire and then to reach a political settlement,” he said. “I would pay particular attention if, at the end of the talks, the two sides issue a statement outlining some degree of convergence.”

[...]

3h ago 05:45
Fresh talks between Ukraine and Russia have begun in Istanbul, with Kyiv seeking a ceasefire without compromising on its sovereignty or territorial integrity and both sides playing down hopes of an early breakthrough.

Turkey’s president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, opened the talks – the two delegations’ first face-to-face meeting in more than a fortnight – at the Dolmabahçe Palace in Istanbul, urging both sets of negotiators to “put an end to this tragedy”.

With Russia’s invasion appearing stalled on the ground, Erdogan said each side had “legitimate concerns” but added: “We have now entered a period where concrete results are needed. It should be “possible to reach a solution acceptable to the international community”, he said, with further conflict “in no one’s interest”.

Ukrainian media said the talks – with the Russian oligarch Roman Abramovich in attendance – started with “a cold welcome and no handshake”. Mykhailo Podolyak, a political adviser to the Ukrainian president, Volodymr Zelenskiy, said delegations were working on “the entire spectrum of contentious issues”.

[...]

3h ago 06:15
Russia’s defence minister, Sergei Shoigu, said Ukraine’s military capacity had been seriously degraded, adding that the main tasks of the first phase of Russia’s military operation in Ukraine had been completed, Reuters reports.

Speaking to officials in a televised meeting, Shoigu also warned that Russia would respond appropriately if Nato supplied Ukraine with planes and air defence systems.

Interfax news agency reports that Shoigu said Ukraine no longer has a navy, and that the main task of Russia’s military operation in Ukraine now is “liberating” Donbas.

[...]

2h ago 07:29
The meeting between Ukrainian and Russian negotiators in Istanbul has ended, the Ukrainian Embassy in Turkey said.

The talks lasted around four hours with occasional breaks. It is unclear if the discussions will continue for a second day, Reuters reports.

 

[PommyMommy]

(1) Russia-Ukraine war latest: Moscow says it will ‘drastically reduce military activity’ around Kyiv and Chernihiv – live | World news | The Guardian

1h ago 08:03
Ukrainian negotiators have shared some details of what was covered at today’s talks between Ukraine and Russia in Istanbul, the two delegations’ first face-to-face meeting in more than a fortnight.

Ukraine proposed adopting neutral status in exchange for security guarantees, meaning it would not join military alliances or host military bases, Ukrainian negotiators told reporters.

The proposals would also include a 15-year consultation period on the status of annexed Crimea and could come into force only in the event of a complete ceasefire, Reuters reports.

[...]

1h ago 08:08
Russia’s defence ministry said Russia will “drastically reduce” military activity outside Kyiv and Chernihiv.

Speaking on television after talks between Russian and Ukrainian negotiating teams in Istanbul, Russia’s deputy defence minister said Moscow has decided to “fundamentally cut back military activity in the direction of Kyiv and Chernihiv” in order to “increase mutual trust for future negotiations to agree and sign a peace deal with Ukraine.”

[...]

Live updates: Russia says it will cut back some operations | AP News
Fomin’s statement comes Tuesday after another round of talks Russia and Ukraine held in Istanbul and appears to be the first major concession the Russians made since the beginning of their invasion in Ukraine more than a month ago.

The Ukrainian military’s general staff said earlier it had noted withdrawals around Kyiv and Chernihiv.

 

[Sundog]

Hoping and praying that a peace treaty is in sight.

Russia to scale back military activity toward Kyiv, Chernihiv as part of peace talks: Putin defense official

The Russian delegation said Tuesday it is working on a "solution" to bring both Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Russian President Vladimir Putin together to agree to a peace treaty.

 

[PommyMommy]

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 7 hrs ago
UN to propose humanitarian ceasefire between Ukraine, Russia. UN Secretary-General Antonio Guterres has requested the UN Humanitarian Affairs chief, Martin Griffiths, “to explore with the parties involved” a means to secure a humanitarian ceasefire in Ukraine.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 6 hrs ago
Hundreds of unexploded mines discovered in Kyiv already removed. The Ukrainian Ministry of Internal Affairs calls on residents to be careful and inform the police if they see an object that resembles a mine or other explosive.

NEXTA on Twitter - 5 hrs ago
In #Irpin, the #Russian occupiers killed the elderly parents of the chief conductor of the #Lviv Opera Ivan Cherednichenko.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 4 hrs ago
3 humanitarian corridors open on March 29: In Zaporizhzhia Oblast, from the occupied Enerhodar and Melitopol to the regional capital Zaporizhzhia. From Mariupol to Zaporizhzhia, where only private cars are allowed. Source: Deputy PM Iryna Vereshchuk.

NEXTA on Twitter - 3 hrs ago
IAEA Director General Rafael Mariano Grossi arrived in #Ukraine The visit will take place within the framework of the mission to guarantee the safety of nuclear facilities.

NEXTA on Twitter
Today Sergei Shoigu was shown on TV for the first time in a long time. The minister has not appeared in public since mid-March.

NEXTA on Twitter - 2 hrs ago
Citizens of Russia, called up for military service in the spring, will not be sent to any hot spots. This was stated by Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, reports TASS.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 1 hr ago
Ambassador says German minister was against helping Ukraine following invasion. Ukraine’s Ambassador to Germany Andriy Melnyk said that German Finance Minister Christian Lindner thought Ukraine would fall within hours and was ready to talk to a Russian-installed puppet regime.

NEXTA on Twitter
Negotiations in #Turkey ended after three hours David Arahamia told a briefing about the interim results of the negotiations: Our first victory was to move the negotiations from #Belarus to Turkey. We see Turkey as one of the security guarantees for #Ukraine. 1/3

NEXTA on Twitter
The #UK, #China, the #US, #Turkey, #France, #Canada, #Italy, #Poland and #Israel can become security guarantors for Ukraine as a result of the negotiations. They will act as part of an international treaty. They will be able to close the skies at #Ukraine's request. 2/3

NEXTA on Twitter
The current system of security guarantors is not working, we see this in #Mariupol and #Kharkiv. We agreed that all security guarantor countries should not only not hinder our accession to the #EU, but help in this process. 3/3

NEXTA on Twitter
First Deputy Head of the International Committee of the State Duma: the results of Russian-Ukrainian negotiations are a serious claim that the "special operation" is close to completion.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 20 min ago
NYT: Russia vows to reduce attacks in northern Ukraine. After Ukraine-Russia negotiations in Turkey, Moscow said it would reduce the assault in the north, where Kyiv is located, the NYT reported. Ukraine’s forces continue to successfully push Russian troops back around Kyiv.

[URL='https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/mar/29/russia-ukraine-war-latest-news-live-updates-putin-moscow-kremlin-zelenskiy-kyiv-russian-invasion']Russia-Ukraine war latest: Moscow says it will ‘drastically reduce military activity’ around Kyiv and Chernihiv – live | World news | The Guardian[/URL]

2m ago 14:29
A quick snap from Reuters that in comments broadcast on state media, Russia’s chief negotiator Vladimir Medinsky said that Kyiv’s proposals to Moscow at talks in Istanbul included one that Russia would not oppose Ukraine joining the European Union.

 

[Sundog]

<snipped for focus>

NEXTA on Twitter
The #UK, #China, the #US, #Turkey, #France, #Canada, #Italy, #Poland and #Israel can become security guarantors for Ukraine as a result of the negotiations. They will act as part of an international treaty. They will be able to close the skies at #Ukraine's request. 2/3

Seems doubtful to me that Russia would accept a treaty with this included, i.e. that the security guarantee nations would be able to "close the skies" at Ukraine's request. These countries would be able to shoot down Russian planes over Ukraine airspace at Ukraine's request - and Russia would agree with this included in the peace treaty?

 

[PommyMommy]

Seems doubtful to me that Russia would accept a treaty with this included, i.e. that the security guarantee nations would be able to "close the skies" at Ukraine's request. These countries would be able to shoot down Russian planes over Ukraine airspace at Ukraine's request - and Russia would agree with this included in the peace treaty?

Yeah, hmmm... Unfortunately, the video is not in English. I looked briefly to see if this has been reported elsewhere but have run out of time this morning. MOO

 

[sds71]

@tackettdc

THE HAGUE, Netherlands (AP) — The Netherlands is expelling 17 Russian intelligence officers, citing a threat to national security

@ZekeJMiller

BRUSSELS (AP) — Belgium says it's expelling 21 Russian diplomats for actions related to espionage or unlawful influence peddling

 

[dotr]

rbbm.
$50M Russian superyacht seized by U.K. authorities amid oligarch crackdown - National | Globalnews.ca
''Britain has detained a Russian-owned $50 million superyacht hours before it was due to leave London where it had docked for a meeting of the superyacht awards, saying the move was part of its sanctions package aimed at punishing Moscow.

The near 190 feet (58.5 metre) Dutch-built yacht, named Phi, was detained in the Canary Wharf financial district of London under the government’s Russian sanctions, the first time the regulations have been used to detain a ship.

The government said Phi was owned by a Russian businessman that it did not name, but that ownership was “deliberately” hidden, with the company the ship is registered to based in St Kitts and Nevis, and the ship carrying Maltese flags.''

View image in full screen
The superyacht Phi owned by a Russian businessman in Canary Wharf, east London which has been detained as part of sanctions against Russia. The vessel is the first to be detained in the UK under sanctions imposed because of the war in Ukraine. Picture date: Tuesday March 29, 2022. (Photo by James Manning/PA Images via Getty Images)
The National Crime Agency (NCA) said the owner of the vessel had not been sanctioned in Britain but that under the law a ship owned, controlled, chartered or operated by persons connected with Russia could be subject to detention.''

 

[sunshineray]

Seems doubtful to me that Russia would accept a treaty with this included, i.e. that the security guarantee nations would be able to "close the skies" at Ukraine's request. These countries would be able to shoot down Russian planes over Ukraine airspace at Ukraine's request - and Russia would agree with this included in the peace treaty?

I don't believe a word that Russian leaders ergo "negotiators" utter about anything.
They've shown their willingness to lie and lie and lie.

Ukraine needs assurances that others will step in to protect them if they declare themselves neutral. Europe, Asia and Africa have a vested interest in the Ukrainian bread basket. Ukraine feeds so many, that's why outsiders want into the peace process.

If Russia agrees, they will probably keep Crimea and Donbas and have water rights. Sanctions will be eased and they can sell their oil and gas to make lots of money again and this time really use it to build up their army and not to just make former KGB and current military leaders billionaires.

Only thing Russia will balk at, IMO is giving back any new Black Sea front land they've recent taken.

AJMO and praying meaningful peace is at hand <3

 

[CSIDreamer]

I don't believe a word that Russian leaders ergo "negotiators" utter about anything.
They've shown their willingness to lie and lie and lie.

Ukraine needs assurances that others will step in to protect them if they declare themselves neutral. Europe, Asia and Africa have a vested interest in the Ukrainian bread basket. Ukraine feeds so many, that's why outsiders want into the peace process.

If Russia agrees, they will probably keep Crimea and Donbas and have water rights. Sanctions will be eased and they can sell their oil and gas to make lots of money again and this time really use it to build up their army and not to just make former KGB and current military leaders billionaires.

Only thing Russia will balk at, IMO is giving back any new Black Sea front land they've recent taken.

AJMO and praying meaningful peace is at hand <3

I have a real issue with the easing of sanctions.

Ukraine is suffering greatly and will continue to do so for years. Let Russia suffer under sanctions. It's nothing compared to Ukranian citizen's corpses literally rotting where they fall.

JMO