Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #8

[PommyMommy]

APR 8, 2022
Inside joint effort to provide Ukrainians with healthcare amid war (kyivindependent.com)
With her husband’s dependence on cancer treatments, the war is the worst thing that could have happened to Bucha resident Halyna Opalat.

“He needs to be on an IV, but we weren’t able to make it to Kyiv,” said the 69-year-old, whose travel was blocked by Russians, then by temporary restrictions after Ukrainian victory here. “The nurse used to give him injections, but she escaped and now there’s no one left.”

[...]

More recently, on April 5, a UN convoy has reached the city of Sievierodonetsk, where intense fighting has left residents without access to electricity, gas or clean water, as well as other basic necessities. The convoy brought food rations, flour, plastic sheeting and blankets for some 17,000 people, as well as four electricity generators for use by the local hospital.

Previously, aid convoys also reached Kherson, Kharkiv and Chernihiv, Habicht said. However, the besieged and largely destroyed city of Mariupol remains beyond the reach of aid convoys for now.

[...]

According to the Health Ministry’s comments to the Kyiv Independent, Russian forces damaged 279 medical institutions, fully destroying 19 of them. They are known to be specifically targeting hospitals, like in Mariupol, where Russian air forces bombed a maternity hospital on March 9, killing four people, including one pregnant woman with her unborn child.

Russian forces also shot 70 ambulances and seized another 104. They also besieged and occupied cities and towns, destroyed infrastructure and cut off transportation.

According to Habicht, about half of Ukraine’s 22,000 pharmacies closed due to the invasion, although the Health Ministry said this week that 80% of pharmacies in the country are now open again.

[...]

“In the first weeks of the war, there was a very drastic situation with insulin,” said Ivanenko, “This also affected two hormonal drugs for treating the thyroid.”

“But volunteers helped and a lot of humanitarian insulin came… and now the situation with insulin is more or less normal,” she said. “There were gaps but the situation is improving.”

[...]

Still, the far reaching health impacts of the war will require a lot more work to mitigate.

“What we see is actually people have lots more conditions,” said Habicht. “Many have delayed their care. Also, because of being on the move, they have malnutrition and we are seeing the impacts of that. Many women are delivering early.”

“Because it’s only five weeks, (the full impact of the war) is difficult to describe. We potentially have impacts for years and a (psychological) impact for generations.”

 

[sunshineray]

Euromaidan Press on Twitter: 20yo woman, raped by 3 occupiers in all possible places at once. Irpen" / Twitter
Ombudswoman Denysova on cases of Russian Army raping children in Kyiv Obl 14yo girl raped by 5 occupiers. Now pregnant. Bucha
11yo boy raped in front of mom, she was tied to a chair to watch. Bucha
20yo woman, raped by 3 occupiers in all possible places at once. Irpen

Russian soldiers rape Ukrainian women, including little girls | Euromaidan Press

Euromaidan Press on Twitter - Video
Woman in Bucha cries over bodies of her daughter&2 grandkids. Russian Army shot them during evacuation attempt. Father survived but lost leg. Bodies lay in open for several weeks The woman escaped from Russian occupied Donbas in 2016. Then the Russians came again VIDEO CREDIT: Marian Prysiazhniuk

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
Warning, sensitive photos Several incinerated bodies of civilians, incl 1 child, were found in the cellar of a house in Husarovka village (Kharkiv Obl) after it was liberated from Russian occupation. Russian's did this deliberately, as no houses burned PHOTO CREDIT: Sergei Loiko #RussianWarCrimes

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
132 bodies executed by shooting were found in Makarov (Kyiv Oblast) after liberation from Russian occupiers, 40% of village destroyed - village head The killed were found in mass graves and separately. 15k ppl lived in Makarov before Russia's invasion, now fewer than 1k remain

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
Japan bans coal imports from Russia, expells 8 diplomats "Russia has repeatedly violated international humanitarian law by killing civilians & attacking nuclear power plants. These are unforgivable war crimes," PM Fumio Kishida told

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
Kramatorsk hospitals unable to cope with number of wounded after Russian missile strike on the railway station, where 4k ppl waited for evacuation - mayor Honcharenko: "Many people heavily wounded, without arms and legs, they are operated on by 30-40 surgeons at the same time"

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
The death toll from the Russian missile attack on the Kramatorsk railway station has risen to 52, 109 people have been injured, according to Pavlo Kyrylenko, the head of the Donetsk Regional Administration. https://t.me/pryamiy/26451

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
A car with Ukrainian electric workers heading to repair power lines in Sumy Obl exploded on a mine of Russian occupiers. 1 electrician died, 2 wounded Prosecutors launch investigation into case of Russia's violation of customs of war https://buff.ly/3Jixtzf

Euromaidan Press on Twitter - WARNING: DISTURBING PHOTOS
On the morning of 8 April, the Russian troops killed an entire family in Avdiivka, Donetsk Obl. Russian shelling of Avdiivka, the Ukrainian-controlled Donetsk suburb, killed four people, according to Head of Donetsk Regional Administration Pavlo Kyrylenko PHOTO CREDIT: Telegram: Contact @pavlokyrylenko_donoda

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
Another Russian Tochka-U missile launched from Belarus was shot down in Chernihiv Oblast on 8 April After Russia's missile strike on Kramatorsk that killed dozens of civilians, Putin's spokesman claimed that the Russian military doesn't use Tochka-U missiles. https://t.me/operativnoZSU/18105

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
Two Belarusian KGB officers died hitting a Russian mine in Gomel Oblast Belarusian media Nasha Niva citing an unnamed source says that 2 Belarusian secret police offices were killed by an anti-tank mine near an abandoned Russian military camp near the Ukrainian border Two KGB officers struck a Russian mine in the Gomel region (nashaniva.com)

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
Western official confirms that Russia has now reorganized the command of its operations in Ukraine - BBC The new commander of Russia's South Military District is now reportedly Gen. Alexandr Dvornikov who had extensive experience from Syria. Ukraine war latest: Biden blames Russia for 'horrific atrocity' at Kramatorsk - BBC News

After reading these...I have bloodlust. </3

 

[CSIDreamer]

APR 8, 2022
Inside joint effort to provide Ukrainians with healthcare amid war (kyivindependent.com)
With her husband’s dependence on cancer treatments, the war is the worst thing that could have happened to Bucha resident Halyna Opalat.

“He needs to be on an IV, but we weren’t able to make it to Kyiv,” said the 69-year-old, whose travel was blocked by Russians, then by temporary restrictions after Ukrainian victory here. “The nurse used to give him injections, but she escaped and now there’s no one left.”

[...]

More recently, on April 5, a UN convoy has reached the city of Sievierodonetsk, where intense fighting has left residents without access to electricity, gas or clean water, as well as other basic necessities. The convoy brought food rations, flour, plastic sheeting and blankets for some 17,000 people, as well as four electricity generators for use by the local hospital.

Previously, aid convoys also reached Kherson, Kharkiv and Chernihiv, Habicht said. However, the besieged and largely destroyed city of Mariupol remains beyond the reach of aid convoys for now.

[...]

According to the Health Ministry’s comments to the Kyiv Independent, Russian forces damaged 279 medical institutions, fully destroying 19 of them. They are known to be specifically targeting hospitals, like in Mariupol, where Russian air forces bombed a maternity hospital on March 9, killing four people, including one pregnant woman with her unborn child.

Russian forces also shot 70 ambulances and seized another 104. They also besieged and occupied cities and towns, destroyed infrastructure and cut off transportation.

According to Habicht, about half of Ukraine’s 22,000 pharmacies closed due to the invasion, although the Health Ministry said this week that 80% of pharmacies in the country are now open again.

[...]

“In the first weeks of the war, there was a very drastic situation with insulin,” said Ivanenko, “This also affected two hormonal drugs for treating the thyroid.”

“But volunteers helped and a lot of humanitarian insulin came… and now the situation with insulin is more or less normal,” she said. “There were gaps but the situation is improving.”

[...]

Still, the far reaching health impacts of the war will require a lot more work to mitigate.

“What we see is actually people have lots more conditions,” said Habicht. “Many have delayed their care. Also, because of being on the move, they have malnutrition and we are seeing the impacts of that. Many women are delivering early.”

“Because it’s only five weeks, (the full impact of the war) is difficult to describe. We potentially have impacts for years and a (psychological) impact for generations.”

Mental health issues have got to be running rampant. As much as I've said I was not created to live through a pandemic, war would probably break me. I feel for them. JMO

 

[Sundog]

‘Disgrace’ German Chancellor slammed over delay in sending high-end tanks to Ukraine

Yet Mr Scholz added it was important for him to coordinate among EU and NATO partners to ensure “that we provide such military support in the same way, and that no one is rushing ahead including Germany.”

He added: “I believe that this is precisely an issue where it would be a grave mistake for Germany to take a special role and a special path.”

The discussion to send tanks to Ukraine comes amid a growing acceptance in Berlin and other Western capitals that Russia’s war in Ukraine could drag on for months or years, and as Kyiv directly appeals for such equipment.

UK and Germany won’t send tanks to Ukraine

LONDON — It “wouldn’t be appropriate” for Western allies to fulfill all of Ukraine’s requests for weaponry, the British prime minister said Friday.

Boris Johnson was speaking at a joint press conference with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz following their first in-person meeting in London, hours after Berlin declined to send Marder tanks to Ukraine, arguing that Germany needs them for its own defense needs.

 

[PommyMommy]

NEXTA on Twitter
The CDEK delivery service will not accept parcels without proof of purchase documents #Russian looters used this service to send looted goods to their homeland from #Ukrainian cities. Now it will be necessary to provide a cashier's check to send it.

Experts set to travel to Ukraine to identify the war's dead | AP News
A team made up of a forensic pathologist, forensic archeologist and an expert on collecting DNA samples from bodies and from families to cross-match, is expected to travel to Ukraine early next week, Director-General Kathryne Bomberger told The Associated Press on Friday.

They will help identify the dead, but also document how they died — information that can feed into war crimes investigations in the future. The organization’s laboratory in an office block on a busy street in The Hague will build a central database cataloging evidence and the identities of the missing.

Soviet-Style Denunciations On The Rise As Russian Society Confronts Ukraine War (rferl.org)

"I think that I acted properly," said Irina Gen, a 45-year-old English teacher from Penza, a Volga region city of about half a million people. "I don't regret it. The only problem is that I didn't manage to reach the minds of our students."

Gen is under criminal prosecution for discussing Russia's war in Ukraine with a group of eighth-graders on March 18. One of the students recorded the conversation and released it publicly, prompting prosecutors to file criminal charges that she disseminated "demonstrably false information about the armed forces of the Russian Federation."

U.S. To Send Patriot Air-Defense System To Slovakia After Its Donation Of S-300 To Ukraine (rferl.org)
Zelenskiy mentioned S-300s by name when he spoke to U.S. lawmakers by video last month, appealing for defense systems that would allow Ukraine to “close the skies” to Russian warplanes and missiles.

NATO members Bulgaria, Slovakia, and Greece have the S-300s, which can fire missiles hundreds of kilometers and knock out cruise missiles as well as warplanes.

ILO and IMO call for urgent action on seafarers stranded in Ukraine following Russian aggression
According to the IMO, as many as 1,000 seafarers are trapped, including in the besieged city of Mariupol, and on vessels in the Sea of Azov.

‘As well as the dangers arising from bombardment, many of the ships concerned now lack food, fuel, fresh water and other vital supplies. The situation of the seafarers from many countries is becoming increasingly untenable as a result, presenting grave risks to their health and well-being.’

 

[Charlot123]

.

The West is intimidated by Putin’s threat of nuclear weapons, but this is not a one sided conflict in that respect.
We should remind him about our own nuclear weapons. I don’t think they want to be turned into a nuclear wasteland either.

The computer at the end of the movie War Games concludes…

View attachment 339422

I don’t think the Russians want to play this game anymore than we do.

You remember how Robert McNamara said shortly before the Cuban missile crisis, who cares if Russia can annihilate US only three times, but US can annihilate Russia five times...one time is enough for both.

Another problem is, if 1% of world nuclear stockpiles is blown up, the resultant "nuclear winter" will make life on Earth as we know it impossible.

 

[worldwatcher]

Another heartbreak,after being abandoned and finally rescued, Poland send the dogs of Borodyanka back to the warzone:

“These dogs are starved, traumatized and now stuck in a war zone," said Kate Parker, a wildlife crime campaign manager at Naturewatch Foundation.

Parker told CBS News that the shelters in areas like Borodyanka and Bucha have been destroyed. They no longer have access to water or electricity. And there is not enough staff left in the area to care for these animals when they are sent back, as those people are fleeing to safety, as well.”

More than 100 shelter dogs that survived starvation in war-torn Ukraine turned away at the Poland border, animal charity says

 

[Vern]

How many millions of citizens are you and your fellow troops willing to watch die? I'm curious to hear the view of an enlisted soldier, I honestly am.

I think that my post that immediately preceded your quoted post here touched on why I think we must take action despite his threat of launching a nuclear war. It reinforces to him that his behaviour is acceptable, thousands more innocents - perhaps 10s of thousands eventually, will die and countries will be wiped out as Putin marches along unchallenged. It is a threat indeed, but it's a threat that has been allowing him to do this for years as we cower - why the heck wouldn't he use that as a threat then?

A question for you as to when intervention becomes acceptable based upon the historical context regarding dictators and their dirty work that I'd like to understand from your point of view, keeping in mind I serve in another nation but one that is a member of NATO:

1983: In Grenada, prime Minister is assassinated: no threat to NATO countries (or the US) / invasion & engagement occurs by US to hold free elections;
1989: Panama is ruled by dictator: no threat to NATO countries (or the US) / invasion & engagement occurs by the US to overthrow dictatorship;
1990/91: Saddam Hussein (Iraq) invades Kuwait: no threat to NATO countries / NATO nations engage - including the US and Canada;
1993: Somalia Mission: no threat to NATO countries / NATO nations engage - including the US and Canada;
1999: Yugoslavia begins ethnic cleansing of Albanians (Kosovo): no threat to NATO countries / NATO engages and launches air strikes - including US and Canada
2011: Libyian dictator Muammar Qaddafi’s regime, during Arab Spring, begins wide-spread attacks against pro-democracy/anti-regime civilians: no threat to NATO countries / NATO and UN engage with air strikes to take down the regime - including US and Canada
2014: Syrian dictator, Bassar al-Assad, launches chemical attacks on civilians, killing up to 1729 civilians: no threat to NATO nations / NATO members including the US, Canada, Turkey launch operations and air strikes in Syria to stop these attacks by the regime on their population


I don't include Afghanistan on the list because there was, of course, an attack on a fellow NATO member and America's NATO partners responded with her in the war in Afghanistan.

I also don't include any of the numerous engagements that took place in other countries to deal with terroristic activities and threats because, of course, they do pose a risk to NATO member countries amongst others.

The only difference that I see in the list above where we, as NATO, intervened is the fact that they are/were all 3rd world countries and can't use 'the nuclear threat'. Yet, we intervened for much lesser death tolls amongst civilians ... and often not for any death tolls against civilians, but simply because 'dude' was a dictator.

Ergo my comment, that we can no longer claim the moral high ground on that front no matter how desperately we try.

The nuclear threat is not new, it been there for decades. I grew up on NATO bases throughout Europe while my father minded the strategic space that is the Fulda Gap. I can rattle off his military particulars to this day that I was required to memorize should we dependents (family) have to evacuate Europe if the proverbial el toro poo poo hit the fan. I learned all the drills associated with what to do / how to shelter. I joined the Army myself during said Cold War, served during that time period, and in some of those places and operations detailed above; I continue to wear the uniform today.

I am embarrassed that we sit here and do nothing this time, effectively tossing a nation and its people under the bus, because we are now scared of a threat that has always been there because that lack of action emboldens this guy and will cost more lives and more countries. There will be more because we are showing our colours in that we are afraid ... thank goodness Ukrainians are not. Therefore by the grace of god go they to their fate.

Do you think if Ukraine disappears as a nation and a people that the nuclear threat is therefore done with? That Putin is done? That more nations won't follow on his already substantial list? That more innocents won't die? I don't. We have empowered him to continue to act and threaten this way IMO.

 

[Bit of hope]

Another heartbreak,after being abandoned and finally rescued, Poland send the dogs of Borodyanka back to the warzone:

“These dogs are starved, traumatized and now stuck in a war zone," said Kate Parker, a wildlife crime campaign manager at Naturewatch Foundation.

Parker told CBS News that the shelters in areas like Borodyanka and Bucha have been destroyed. They no longer have access to water or electricity. And there is not enough staff left in the area to care for these animals when they are sent back, as those people are fleeing to safety, as well.”

More than 100 shelter dogs that survived starvation in war-torn Ukraine turned away at the Poland border, animal charity says

This is heartbreaking, really...but maybe the best thing now is to put them down....dogs need their humans....

 

[Bit of hope]

I think that my post that immediately preceded your quoted post here touched on why I think we must take action despite his threat of launching a nuclear war. It reinforces to him that his behaviour is acceptable, thousands more innocents - perhaps 10s of thousands eventually, will die and countries will be wiped out as Putin marches along unchallenged. It is a threat indeed, but it's a threat that has been allowing him to do this for years as we cower - why the heck wouldn't he use that as a threat then?

A question for you as to when intervention becomes acceptable based upon the historical context regarding dictators and their dirty work that I'd like to understand from your point of view, keeping in mind I serve in another nation but one that is a member of NATO:

1983: In Grenada, prime Minister is assassinated: no threat to NATO countries (or the US) / invasion & engagement occurs by US to hold free elections;
1989: Panama is ruled by dictator: no threat to NATO countries (or the US) / invasion & engagement occurs by the US to overthrow dictatorship;
1990/91: Saddam Hussein (Iraq) invades Kuwait: no threat to NATO countries / NATO nations engage - including the US and Canada;
1993: Somalia Mission: no threat to NATO countries / NATO nations engage - including the US and Canada;
1999: Yugoslavia begins ethnic cleansing of Albanians (Kosovo): no threat to NATO countries / NATO engages and launches air strikes - including US and Canada
2011: Libyian dictator Muammar Qaddafi’s regime, during Arab Spring, begins wide-spread attacks against pro-democracy/anti-regime civilians: no threat to NATO countries / NATO and UN engage with air strikes to take down the regime - including US and Canada
2014: Syrian dictator, Bassar al-Assad, launches chemical attacks on civilians, killing up to 1729 civilians: no threat to NATO nations / NATO members including the US, Canada, Turkey launch operations and air strikes in Syria to stop these attacks by the regime on their population


I don't include Afghanistan on the list because there was, of course, an attack on a fellow NATO member and America's NATO partners responded with her in the war in Afghanistan.

I also don't include any of the numerous engagements that took place in other countries to deal with terroristic activities and threats because, of course, they do pose a risk to NATO member countries amongst others.

The only difference that I see in the list above where we, as NATO, intervened is the fact that they are/were all 3rd world countries and can't use 'the nuclear threat'. Yet, we intervened for much lesser death tolls amongst civilians ... and often not for any death tolls against civilians, but simply because 'dude' was a dictator.

Ergo my comment, that we can no longer claim the moral high ground on that front no matter how desperately we try.

The nuclear threat is not new, it been there for decades. I grew up on NATO bases throughout Europe while my father minded the strategic space that is the Fulda Gap. I can rattle off his military particulars to this day that I was required to memorize should we dependents (family) have to evacuate Europe if the proverbial el toro poo poo hit the fan. I learned all the drills associated with what to do / how to shelter. I joined the Army myself during said Cold War, served during that time period, and in some of those places and operations detailed above; I continue to wear the uniform today.

I am embarrassed that we sit here and do nothing this time, effectively tossing a nation and its people under the bus, because we are now scared of a threat that has always been there because that lack of action emboldens this guy and will cost more lives and more countries. There will be more because we are showing our colours in that we are afraid ... thank goodness Ukrainians are not. Therefore by the grace of god go they to their fate.

Do you think if Ukraine disappears as a nation and a people that the nuclear threat is therefore done with? That Putin is done? That more nations won't follow on his already substantial list? That more innocents won't die? I don't. We have empowered him to continue to act and threaten this way IMO.

Sorry, for this hurtful post....it's not addressed to you or anybody in particular......let's all go down together.....I'm not ready yet.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I think that my post that immediately preceded your quoted post here touched on why I think we must take action despite his threat of launching a nuclear war. It reinforces to him that his behaviour is acceptable, thousands more innocents - perhaps 10s of thousands eventually, will die and countries will be wiped out as Putin marches along unchallenged. It is a threat indeed, but it's a threat that has been allowing him to do this for years as we cower - why the heck wouldn't he use that as a threat then?

A question for you as to when intervention becomes acceptable based upon the historical context regarding dictators and their dirty work that I'd like to understand from your point of view, keeping in mind I serve in another nation but one that is a member of NATO:

1983: In Grenada, prime Minister is assassinated: no threat to NATO countries (or the US) / invasion & engagement occurs by US to hold free elections;
1989: Panama is ruled by dictator: no threat to NATO countries (or the US) / invasion & engagement occurs by the US to overthrow dictatorship;
1990/91: Saddam Hussein (Iraq) invades Kuwait: no threat to NATO countries / NATO nations engage - including the US and Canada;
1993: Somalia Mission: no threat to NATO countries / NATO nations engage - including the US and Canada;
1999: Yugoslavia begins ethnic cleansing of Albanians (Kosovo): no threat to NATO countries / NATO engages and launches air strikes - including US and Canada
2011: Libyian dictator Muammar Qaddafi’s regime, during Arab Spring, begins wide-spread attacks against pro-democracy/anti-regime civilians: no threat to NATO countries / NATO and UN engage with air strikes to take down the regime - including US and Canada
2014: Syrian dictator, Bassar al-Assad, launches chemical attacks on civilians, killing up to 1729 civilians: no threat to NATO nations / NATO members including the US, Canada, Turkey launch operations and air strikes in Syria to stop these attacks by the regime on their population


I don't include Afghanistan on the list because there was, of course, an attack on a fellow NATO member and America's NATO partners responded with her in the war in Afghanistan.

I also don't include any of the numerous engagements that took place in other countries to deal with terroristic activities and threats because, of course, they do pose a risk to NATO member countries amongst others.

The only difference that I see in the list above where we, as NATO, intervened is the fact that they are/were all 3rd world countries and can't use 'the nuclear threat'. Yet, we intervened for much lesser death tolls amongst civilians ... and often not for any death tolls against civilians, but simply because 'dude' was a dictator.

Ergo my comment, that we can no longer claim the moral high ground on that front no matter how desperately we try.

The nuclear threat is not new, it been there for decades. I grew up on NATO bases throughout Europe while my father minded the strategic space that is the Fulda Gap. I can rattle off his military particulars to this day that I was required to memorize should we dependents (family) have to evacuate Europe if the proverbial el toro poo poo hit the fan. I learned all the drills associated with what to do / how to shelter. I joined the Army myself during said Cold War, served during that time period, and in some of those places and operations detailed above; I continue to wear the uniform today.

I am embarrassed that we sit here and do nothing this time, effectively tossing a nation and its people under the bus, because we are now scared of a threat that has always been there because that lack of action emboldens this guy and will cost more lives and more countries. There will be more because we are showing our colours in that we are afraid ... thank goodness Ukrainians are not. Therefore by the grace of god go they to their fate.

Do you think if Ukraine disappears as a nation and a people that the nuclear threat is therefore done with? That Putin is done? That more nations won't follow on his already substantial list? That more innocents won't die? I don't. We have empowered him to continue to act and threaten this way IMO.

IMO, we are not "sitting here doing nothing". Citizens all over the world (through their governments) have given, or allocated, billions of dollars of aid and weapons to Ukraine.

JMO

 

[Bit of hope]

Dilemma voor herdenkingscomités: zijn Russen nog welkom?

Dilemma for memorial committees: are Russians still welcome?

Just like every year on April 9, red candles were lit at the Soviet Field of Honor in camp Amersfoort this morning, exactly at 6.30 am. Today marks 80 years since 77 Soviet POWs were executed here.

In other years, diplomats from Russia and other former Soviet states were invited to this commemoration. That did not happen this year, because of the war that Russia is waging in Ukraine. For more commemoration committees, the question is whether a Russian representation is welcome in the near future. A small tour shows that committees are responsible for this in different ways.

Director Remco Reiding of the Soviet Field of Honor Foundation has ultimately decided not to invite representatives of the national government this year either. He thought it was a difficult decision: "We would like to welcome everyone, but we also wanted this tenth commemoration to go ahead without discussion. That is why we have decided not to invite any diplomats."

However, the deputy mayors of Amersfoort and Leusden were present at the commemoration, along with about 130 people from all over the country. Among them, Reiding saw people from Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Belarus and also Russians. "They stood there as human beings," said Reiding.

Commemoration Soviet Field of Honor
On April 9, 1942, the second largest shooting in our country in the Second World War took place in Amersfoort. The 77 Soviet soldiers were part of a group of 101 Soviet soldiers who had been taken prisoner of war. For the other 24, who had previously succumbed to hunger, disease and abuse, 24 white candles were lit this morning.

This group of soldiers came mainly from Uzbekistan. They had been captured by the Germans on the Eastern Front. The Germans regarded these Asian prisoners of war as untermenschen . During their stay in Kamp Amersfoort they were treated brutally.

A monument has been erected on the site of their execution, where the Soviet Field of Honor Foundation has held an annual commemoration since 2012.

etc.

 

[Vern]

Sorry, for this hurtful post....it's not addressed to you or anybody in particular......let's all go down together.....I'm not ready yet.

I get that side too. I do have kids and grandkids and a hubby and myself etc.

But, after he takes Ukraine, then the next countries and avails himself of their resources, equipment and people to work, who is left for him to come after? We already have historical experience with a guy in Germany beginning in the 30s and Putin himself this time rolling over countries unimpeded for far too long prior to intervening. The north is only a short hop, skip and a jump and our collective "we can't because he might use nukes" .

Nukes are not a deterrent if only one side is willing to play the game.

It just seems to me that we don't mind 'being the bully' and going in to 3rd world countries because we don't like who they elected etc, but aren't willing to call out today's playground bully because he happens to be an equally-equipped adversary.

It's like the bully (Putin) saying, "if you don't give me your lunch money (country) I'm going to beat (nuke) you and take it anyway" so they hand it over and he continues to take, take take ... never having to actually beat up a single individual, because the bigger kids on the block won't step in and call him out.

I detest bullies.

 

[Vern]

IMO, we are not "sitting here doing nothing". Citizens all over the world (through their governments) have given, or allocated, billions of dollars of aid and weapons to Ukraine.

JMO

When is military intervention acceptable to you then? After all that is what my post was answering for you as that is the question you asked me. Why the difference in treatment of 3rd world nations/reasons/excuses for action? That's the question ... we did all those things (money, arming the resistance etc) for those other nations I listed prior to our interventions in them too ... no difference then & now with them & Ukraine.

I tried my best to fairly answer your question ...

 

[Grouse]

I am embarrassed that we sit here and do nothing this time, effectively tossing a nation and its people under the bus, because we are now scared of a threat that has always been there because that lack of action emboldens this guy and will cost more lives and more countries.

<RSBM>

I think it's a perfectly sane response to be afraid of a nuclear threat and I hope those making the decisions do too. JMO.

 

[Vern]

<RSBM>

I think it's a perfectly sane response to be afraid of a nuclear threat and I hope those making the decisions do too. JMO.

I agree, but I also believe that they are only a deterrent when both sides are willing to play the game.

Russia certainly isn't deterred from offensive actions, invasions or committing war crimes and atrocities against civilians or afraid of the US or her Allies and NATO these days as she begins her slow walk through Europe. Why is that? Because she can. We are witnessing it live.

 

[Grouse]

I agree, but I also believe that they are only a deterrent when both sides are willing to play the game.

Russia certainly isn't deterred or afraid of the US or her Allies and NATO these days as she begins her slow walk through Europe. We are witnessing it live.

I agree but when one you are dealing with someone who has the power to take such a devastating step, and who might also quite possibly be insane, you still have to tread carefully. MOO.

 

[Vern]

I agree but when one you are dealing with someone who has the power to take such a devastating step, and who might also quite possibly be insane, you still have to tread carefully. MOO.

Again, I agree. He's holding us at the check stage right now - will we do something before he says, "checkmate"? Because, no doubt Russia continues to make their moves on the board undeterred.

 

[CSIDreamer]

When is military intervention acceptable to you then? After all that is what my post was answering for you as that is the question you asked me. Why the difference in treatment of 3rd world nations/reasons/excuses for action? That's the question ... we did all those things (money, arming the resistance etc) for those other nations I listed prior to our interventions in them too ... no difference then & now with them & Ukraine.

I tried my best to fairly answer your question ...

I'm personally not going to get into a 7 prior wars discussion because I'm doing my best to keep this thread on topic.

I can see if Russia decides to nuke Ukraine or steps foot in a NATO country, NATO getting seriously involved.

This Russia/Ukraine territorial war has been going on forever. It's nothing new. It certainly has been amped up by Russia, though.

My perspective as a civilian is that while many countries are providing billions of dollars of support to Ukraine, it is also the responsibility of each country's leadership to protect their own citizens first. They are really required to find that line. Even our US military oath swears allegiance to the Constitution of the United States (our country) first.

JMO

 

[worldwatcher]

Joining the discussion,without quoting,a fellow poster...it seems,we have to receive stability first and look for other sources,so our dependent on Russia will be limited.
I do believe and hopefully,the EU is working that..

"But industry bosses and political leaders have warned that the damage to Germany by turning off the taps would be far greater than any benefit it brings to Ukraine.

“What use to anybody is a weakened Germany?” a source close to the government told the Guardian this week"
‘Firms will go bust’: Germany prepares for a future without Russian gas

Also,I strongly disagree,about putting animals down.Got two rescue dogs from Romania and I am sure,that ..with Poland's help,a lot of good people will shelter animals to give them a good home.
I am outraged,that people who gave /risk their lives for animals,being turned away from the border.

Jmo,but I rather live with animals then deal with humans.

@Vern I truly understand,where you coming from..it feels like, we are watching,while the slaughter continues.. completely nuts,when you read these things:

"Putin also regularly takes a bath in deer antler blood as a form of alternative medicine, says Proekt. He does this on the advice of his Defense Minister Sergei Shoygu."
Poetin is de afgelopen jaren tientallen keren bezocht door een kankerspecialist, en neemt naar verluidt verjongingsbaden in hertenbloed