Russia Attacks Ukraine - 23 Feb 2022 #8

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  • #261
Joining the discussion,without quoting,a fellow poster...it seems,we have to receive stability first and look for other sources,so our dependent on Russia will be limited.
I do believe and hopefully,the EU is working that..

"But industry bosses and political leaders have warned that the damage to Germany by turning off the taps would be far greater than any benefit it brings to Ukraine.

“What use to anybody is a weakened Germany?” a source close to the government told the Guardian this week"
‘Firms will go bust’: Germany prepares for a future without Russian gas

Also,I strongly disagree,about putting animals down.Got two rescue dogs from Romania and I am sure,that ..with Poland's help,a lot of good people will shelter animals to give them a good home.
I am outraged,that people who gave /risk their lives for animals,being turned away from the border.

Jmo,but I rather live with animals then deal with humans.

@Vern I truly understand,where you coming from..it feels like, we are watching,while the slaughter continues.. completely nuts,when you read these things:

"Putin also regularly takes a bath in deer antler blood as a form of alternative medicine, says Proekt. He does this on the advice of his Defense Minister Sergei Shoygu."
Poetin is de afgelopen jaren tientallen keren bezocht door een kankerspecialist, en neemt naar verluidt verjongingsbaden in hertenbloed

I understand Germany's dilemma. And again, cannot fault their leadership for walking that tightrope of our citizens first vs global humanitarian issues.

Speaking of Germany. I'm reminded of the "Poland MiG" fiasco. Whoever has loose lips needs to zip it. JMO
 
  • #262
I'm personally not going to get into a 7 prior wars discussion because I'm doing my best to keep this thread on topic.

I can see if Russia decides to nuke Ukraine or steps foot in a NATO country, NATO getting seriously involved.

This Russia/Ukraine territorial war has been going on forever. It's nothing new. It certainly has been amped up by Russia, though.

My perspective as a civilian is that while many countries are providing billions of dollars of support to Ukraine, it is also the responsibility of each country's leadership to protect their own citizens first. They are really required to find that line. Even our US military oath swears allegiance to the Constitution of the United States (our country) first.

JMO

My post wasn't about 7 prior wars - it was about why we've, the US and NATO, have justified interventions before without there being direct threats to our own nations (you did ask me why I thought 'we' should do something in Ukraine and that was the answer).

Ukraine was and is a sovereign democratic nation that has just been unprovokedly invaded by Russia. Russia be damned as it is only a 'territorial war' for them (ie: that's their excuse).

Absolutely all soldiers of a country swear to protect their citizens first - myself included - but apparently Russian troops are also used for unprovoked offensive actions against sovereign nations and committing war crimes upon civilians.

All NATO nations are also part of an international agreement which invokes Article 5 should any of our nations be attacked by another. To date, we've ALL lived up to that agreement. NATO, collectively, has also set precedents based upon moral and democratic values that have seen us intervene to stop genocides, invasions etc of nations not part of our alliance. NATO has, including the US and Canada, set that standard of 'grounds' for intervention in those "other" non-member nations. That's just a fact. This time, NATO, including my country and the US are walking back that 'prior grounds' precedent we've set. That's also just a fact.

It's OK that it's a fact. It is what it is, but that doesn't make the facts disappear. We are walking them back because of the nuclear threat which, ironically, does not disappear with the fall of Ukraine and has never actually went anywhere over the past myriad of decades. We want to avoid nuclear war - I GET THAT! Meanwhile, we are empowering that willing-to-use-my-military-might-Putin to carry on unabated and therefore encouraging him to continue with his threats. He will continue to use the nuclear threat because it is working for him. He's already stated he doesn't want NATO countries on his western flank - that he wants them all to be neutral ... check out what other countries are to his west ... and west of Ukraine. Who's next then? Because after Ukraine and Moldova - they are all NATO countries on his western border.


And, this from yesterday will also serve to irritate Putin further today given that he's already threatened them not to consider joining:
Finland and Sweden could soon join NATO, prompted by Russian war in Ukraine - CNNPolitics
 
  • #263
I was reading a lot of MSM outlets from Russia....this early morning...was up at 4 a clock Eureopean time...because I couldn't sleep anymore...It's really another world....I was really shocked....F.I. we are retrieving from the Kiev oblast, because to give the peace talks a chance......I would really advice everybody to do this once in a while....
 
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  • #264
Again, I agree. He's holding us at the check stage right now - will we do something before he says, "checkmate"? Because, no doubt Russia continues to make their moves on the board undeterred.

I don't think we are at the check stage yet. That, IMO, will be if/when he invades a NATO country. Then we will be at war.
 
  • #265
I understand Germany's dilemma. And again, cannot fault their leadership for walking that tightrope of our citizens first vs global humanitarian issues.

Speaking of Germany. I'm reminded of the "Poland MiG" fiasco. Whoever has loose lips needs to zip it. JMO

Agree, the controversy over Poland sending the MiG fighter jets to Ukraine and then not sending them is similar to what just happened in Germany. I don't fault Poland or Germany, or the United States, or the head of NATO. They are trying to keep us out of WWIII, which is what they should be doing, IMO.

Glad to see that the UK's leader supported the Chancellor at a joint press conference, and that they will do their best to send defensive military equipment, just not tanks.
 
  • #266
The Kyiv Independent on Twitter- 7 hrs ago
Ukraine and Russia agree on 10 evacuation corridors for April 9, from:
▪️Mariupol in Donetsk Oblast;
▪️Berdyansk, Tokmak, Energodar and Melitopol in Zaporizhzhia Oblast; ▪️Sievierodonetsk, Lysychansk, Popasna, Hirske and Rubizhne in Luhansk Oblast.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter
US official says Russia seeks to recruit more than 60,000 reservists. Russia has started mobilizing reservists but it is unclear how successful that effort will be, the official told Reuters on April 8.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter
Ukraine charges head of Mariupol occupation administration with high treason. Russia's proxies in Donetsk Oblast on April 6 named Kostyantyn Ivashchenko, a member of the Mariupol city council from a pro-Kremlin party, a "mayor" of the Russian-occupied parts of Mariupol.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - Video
Ukrainian police and forensic experts are exhuming bodies of those killed during the Russian occupation of Bucha and buried in a mass grave near a local church. As of now, 20 bodies have been recovered. Two belonged to the Ukrainian military.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter
The bodies are to be examined, identified, and then buried at a local cemetery. According to Ukraine’s Prosecutor General Iryna Venediktova, this mass grave contained a total of 67 bodies.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter
Russian forces continue shelling Luhansk Oblast. According to Luhansk Oblast Governor Serhiy Haidai, one person was killed in Severodonetsk, four people were injured in the shelling of a residential building in Rubizhne, and there are mass fires in Lysychansk.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter
Ombudsman: Russia increases forced deportations of Ukrainians. Ombudsman Lyudmyla Denisova said Ukraine is not yet able to verify the exact numbers, but the government is investigating the forced deportations.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 1 hr ago
British PM Boris Johnson meets with President Volodymyr Zelensky in Kyiv on April 9, in what appears to be an unannounced visit. Source: Andrij Sybiha, deputy head of Zelensky's administration.
FP6HigpXwAMR4jR
 
  • #267
This is heartbreaking, really...but maybe the best thing now is to put them down....dogs need their humans....

I would love to post myself with my beautiful dog Biggles.....who is dead for a long time now.....but it's of topic.....If I wouldn't know what he was doing....where he was...in what circumstances...it would break my heart a thousand times. And of course my heart is so terribly discarded by all the people who have met their terrible faith....my heart is crying....
 
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  • #268
Sorry......
 
  • #269
APR 9, 2022
Voices of besieged Mariupol: 'It’s not even comparable to hell' (kyivindependent.com)
“Sometimes hope returns to me. But sometimes it leaves, and I think that we are all going to die,” says Anastasiia Kiseliova, a 40-year-old mother of three, as she walks through the streets of Mariupol, voice-recording herself on an iPhone.

“The city is gone,” she adds, her voice trembling. She bursts into tears seconds later.

[...]

A large missile hit their property, sliding under the house, but not exploding. Another missile hit their neighbors’ yard. The family made a decision to leave, driving over to Kiseliova’s parents.

For two weeks, her husband, who is working abroad, thought that his wife and children were dead. All communications in the city have been shut since early March, meaning that many thousands of Ukrainians with friends and family in Mariupol have no way of knowing if they are alive.

[...]

Trying to escape Mariupol on March 17, Kiseliova joined a column of civilian cars that moved towards the outskirts of the city. For hours, she drove her three children, as well as her oldest son’s girlfriend, to safety, maneuvering between unexploded missiles and hundreds of mines that were scattered through roads and fields.

[...]

The next day, as evacuating cars carefully moved through a mined field just outside Mariupol, near an abandoned village of Kamianka, Russians shelled the convoy.

“They shelled cars that had signs that said ‘children’,” Kiseliova said. “One car was burned down, five people were injured. One girl had surgery performed right in the field.”

After crossing into Ukrainian territory, the family eventually made their way to Lviv, a regional capital in western Ukraine that has become the main destination for internally displaced Ukrainians flocking from the east, south and north.

[...]

“I didn’t want to leave Mariupol until the very end, until a person was killed in front of me,” says Maria Ruban-Vaskevich, 44, tightly holding onto an icon while sitting at a hostel in central Lviv.

Behind her are her two kids, Vasilisa, 12, and Volodymyr, 11, and a few small bags of clothes. This is all they got left after escaping from besieged Mariupol.

[...]

One day, as Ruban-Vaskevich and her family were hiding in her brother’s store, Russian soldiers shot a civilian man, named Viktor, right near the entrance.

[...]

As he was dying, he asked Ruban-Vaskevich to collect his documents from his house nearby. The medics would take him to the hospital, the man thought, but that never happened.

Instead, he died in the arms of Ruban-Vaskevich, as she was trying to stop his bleeding with medical tape.

[...]

The next day, on March 22, the woman saw a nine-story apartment building burning in its entirety. She also saw three Russian tanks shooting at an apartment block. She knew she had to leave.

[...]

For days, her family walked through the city which became filled with graves, dead bodies, and burning houses. There was a car with a large pool of blood underneath. And a body of a man without arms and legs.

[...]

Together with the kids, Ruban-Vaskevich stood in line for 30 minutes, when a stranger came up offering to get them out to Zaporizhzhia, a Ukraine-controlled city where most escapees from Mariupol arrive. Together with three other families, the volunteer drove them to safety.

“We got so lucky,” Ruban-Vaskevich said. “In a month, they turned our life into a horror movie. It’s not even comparable to hell.”

[...]

“No one counts the dead there. We buried people in our yard. There are cemeteries in every park. And how many people burned in their homes? How many died of natural causes and just lay in their flats? No one will find them.”

On April 6, Mariupol City Council said the Russian military began using mobile crematoriums to burn the bodies of killed Ukrainians.

Ukraine may never uncover the true scale of Russia’s atrocities in Mariupol.
 
  • #270
Again on the dogs.....I've traveled all over the East Block...and Turkey....the dog packs are kind of scary.....but also very afraid....We don't want that for Ukraine.....if they are out of food...who knows what they are going to do.....for having food. We have had some media outlets on that.....we don't want that....take them to heaven....over the rainbow bridge....etc. But please don't poison them..I witnessed that...No. NO.....
 
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  • #271
Euromaidan Press (@EuromaidanPress) / Twitter - 7 hrs ago
According to Slovakian media, Slovakia and Ukraine have almost finalized a Deal on the Sale of Slovakian-made 16 ZUZANA 155mm Self-Propelled Howitzers. This is one of those weapons Ukraine has been asking for with a firing range of 41 kilometers.
Ukraine agrees to buy self-propelled guns from Slovakia - Perild

NEXTA on Twitter
#Russian troops are regrouping in eastern #Ukraine before the attack on #Kharkiv This was stated in an interview with CNN by the head of military intelligence of Ukraine, Major General Kirill Budanov.

NEXTA on Twitter
“They are regrouping towards the city of Izyum through Belgorod. They bring additional troops into Belgorod to make up for their losses.They plan to attack Kharkiv first. They will try to finish off Mariupol then they will try to take initiative to attack #Kyiv,” Budanov said.

NEXTA on Twitter
In #Kherson, the former head of the regional administration Andrei Putilov was kidnapped, #Ukrainian media report.
FP5Q6urWYAIJbzK


Euromaidan Press on Twitter
Rescuers detect 4000+ explosive devices every day around Kyiv. Mines were placed under helmets, in boxes with ammunition, at the entrances to cellars & even on the front door of the Hostomel unit of rescuers. 5000 volunteers are helping with rubbles - MIA Денис Монастирський | Facebook

NEXTA on Twitter
EU obliges trucks from Russia and Belarus to leave their territory by April 16 Due to the new #European sanctions, trucks from #Russia and #Belarus are prohibited from entering the #EU territory.
FP5T1EfXwAMvpDo


NEXTA on Twitter
Scholz turned to Putin:“You are destroying the future of your country” Vladimir Putin has an imperial mindset “known to us from the 19th, 18th, 17th and other centuries,”said #German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, once again demanding an immediate ceasefire in #Ukraine.

NEXTA on Twitter
Russian military attacked border guards in Luhansk region with kamikaze drones, State Border Service of Ukraine reported. The ministry said that border guards shot down one of the drones. Another one attacked a position a few minutes later, where at that moment there was no one.
FP54vzaXEAQJUIV
FP54vzZXoAkK2RN


NEXTA on Twitter
Poland freezes relations with Hungary because of position on #Ukraine This was announced by Deputy Prime Minister for Security Affairs of #Poland Yaroslav Kaczynski.

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
There are more than 15,000 Ukrainians registered as missing so far. It is hard to name the precise number of killed & raped civilians but "our psychologists are overwhelmed by such cases," the ombudswoman for Human Rights said.
Людмила Денісова | Facebook

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
"Given that Russians during their atrocities appeared on numerous cameras in looted houses & posted photos themselves, it is not difficult to detect them in a matter of hours." Many murderers are already found, Ukrainian Minister of Digital Transformations said https://t.me/zedigital/1546

NEXTA on Twitter - Video
Employees of the State Emergency Service of #Ukraine continue to dismantle the rubble in #Borodyanka. 237 rescuers, 35 pieces of equipment and 70 volunteers work at the site. The department reported that during the search, the body of a one person was found.

Euromaidan Press on Twitter
Near Rubizhne, Russians hit a tank with dangerous nitric acid for the 2nd time It is dangerous if inhaled, swallowed, in contact with skin. Luhansk Obl Head urged residents not to go out, prepare face masks soaked in soda solution and watch wind direction https://facebook.com/watch?v=698752801158495
FP6UkzmXsAULx7l


Euromaidan Press on Twitter
Military expert Mykhaylo Samus explains why fighter jets are necessary for Ukraine’s victory, despite Western media &politicians’ claims they won't help “that much.”Medium-range air defense systems, artillery, armored vehicles are also Ukraine's priorities Yes, Ukraine needs MiG-29s, medium-range air defense, heavy weapons | Euromaidan Press

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter
CNN: Quarter of Russian forces in Ukraine 'effectively inoperable.' CNN quoted an unnamed European official, who said that 29 Russian battalion tactical groups are out of order.

The Kyiv Independent on Twitter - 10 min ago
Luhansk Oblast Governor: Russian troops hit nitric acid tank in Rubizhne, again. Governor Serhiy Haidai urged residents of the region not to leave bomb shelters and to close windows and doors.
 
  • #272
On April 6, Mariupol City Council said the Russian military began using mobile crematoriums to burn the bodies of killed Ukrainians.

Ukraine may never uncover the true scale of Russia’s atrocities in Mariupol.

RSBM.

Not to take away from the obvious horror in Mariupol, but those mobile crematoriums can only handle a small number of bodies per day (8-10 each) unless they have a ferocious number of them now.

They can only cover up so much. I'm sure the Russians think everyone else is stupid, but it won't be hard to do the math. :(

JMO

Old article:

https://euromaidanpress.com/2015/01...illed-per-day-brought-in-7-mobile-crematoria/
 
  • #273
  • #274
I would love to post myself with my beautiful dog Biggles.....who is dead for a long time now.....but it's of topic.....If I wouldn't know what he was doing....where he was...in what circumstances...it would break my heart a thousand times. And of course my heart is so terribly discarded by all the people who have met their terrible faith....my heart is crying....

Pets are members of our family, and pet grief is so very hard as these animals are so dependent on us for their well-being and survival. Seeing the many Ukrainians fleeing their country with their pets in their arms was so hard to watch.
 
  • #275
Again on the dogs.....I've traveled all over the East Block...and Turkey....the dog packs are kind of scary.....but also very afraid....We don't want that for Ukraine.....if they are out of food...who knows what they are going to do.....for having food. We have had some media outlets on that.....we don't want that....take them to heaven....over the rainbow bridge....etc. But please don't poison them..I witnessed that...No. NO.....

I remember seeing a dog pack in the city when we were livng in Beijing. I had never seen a dog pack before, and looking out the window I couldn't make sense of it at first, but then I realized the dogs were abandoned and had formed a pack. This was at a time when the PRC began to allow its citizens to own pets again, after the Maoist government had banned pet-owning as a bourgeoisie practice. Many people rushed out and got dogs but in a crowded urban center and small housing at that time, and not understanding what their care would involve, I guess many dogs were abandoned. It was sad to see.

We brought home two cats that were abandoned near our housing unit, they are now 11 years old. Rescue groups were a new thing in the PRC at that time, as the country didn't have a companion animal tradition since the Maoist years.

Edited spelling
 
  • #276
 
  • #277
Dmitry Skurikhin

It is not so difficult to think adequately in Russia, even if you live in a small village.

I would advise people to see it it is not long.

Push on the R hand corner, then auto-translate, choose English

The auto translation is not great
Bottom line: he started fighting with the system in 2008. After annexation of the Crimea he wrote on his car, :"we gain Crimea and lose peace".

He writes slogans on his stores, the Ukrainian occupied cities. Every night the police whitewashes them and he does it again.

He is not mentally ill, he is totally with it, he pushed for gasification of his village (there was no gas there), he is very popular. But, he is an honest man. He also says that the village is for him because they are poor and he often sells them according to "pay after you get your monthly salary" principle.

 
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  • #278
Would this fantasy be feasible in any shape or form?
R leaves U, Huge wall built between countries, U is built up again with help from the international community, U becomes a huge tourist draw and a magnet for movie and documentary makers, artists and big business.
R remains a pariah, nobody goes there, sells or buys from them, citizens not allowed to enter any Nato country. Monies seized from oligarchs used to rebuild schools and hospitals, lots of jobs for Ukrainians and benefits for U moms who have lost husbands.
 
  • #279
I understand Germany's dilemma. And again, cannot fault their leadership for walking that tightrope of our citizens first vs global humanitarian issues.

Speaking of Germany. I'm reminded of the "Poland MiG" fiasco. Whoever has loose lips needs to zip it. JMO
Things are so tricky in EU, we were so naive, caught up in covid and our own lives. Now reading back, the USA warned our Govs, so many times.Even if I am not a fan of Trump, he was right, we have should invested more in NATO, but well..

Every nation has its own problems, we rely on Germany for decades, I live about 15 km from the border and I love Germany, I know that WWII came from WWI, so local history thought me that it's not black & white.

When it comes down to compassion, I cry,... a lot, for humans, children, animals, you name it.
No one wins.
Europe is in a bad shape, when it comes to military, putin knows, once a spy, always a spy...
I do talk a lot, with my children, about their future, it is going be tough for them..
I feel so sorry for all that's - going on -
Love is power and I thank you all for really being here!
We live in one world, we should cherish that!

❤️Respect to you all, for discussing, keep informing each other, the shared compassion, heart breaks and not looking away.❤️

Also a big thx for the mods x
 
  • #280
The DM, but still...
56415317-10703253-image-a-1_1649530520977.jpg

April 9 2022
Kremlin rants against Baltic 'neo-Nazi' state in chilling echo of Moscow's threats to Ukraine | Daily Mail Online
''Putin's deranged regime branded Latvia a 'neo-Nazi' state in a chilling echo of Moscow's threats to Ukraine after the Baltic state made May 9 a day of remembrance for victims of Russian aggression.

In an extraordinary rant, Moscow called Riga's decision to commemorate Ukrainian war victims next month - on the same day as Russia's Victory Day to mark the surrender of Nazi Germany - 'blasphemous'.

Latvian MPs passed the legislation to draw attention to ' Russia's military aggression'. Latvian national flags will be raised alongside Ukrainian flags at every residence and government building.''

''It comes as a former senior officer in the Russian army laid out a battle plan on state TV which includes the Russian army invading the NATO Baltic states and parts of Sweden, a politically neutral country.

Speaking live on TV channel Rossiya 1, retired Russian military Colonel gestured to the map showing Gotland, Sweden's largest island with a population of around 58,595, circled in red. ''

''Sweden has been politically neutral throughout its recent history, but Russia's invasion of Ukraine brought the prospect of the Nordic country joining NATO to the fore of political discussion.

Russia has threatened Sweden and Finland over NATO membership repeatedly since the invasion began.''
 
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