Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat, 4 Feb 2024 *Arrest* #12

[Rocket333]

I don't believe the act was deliberately hitting her with a car since how would the police distinguish that act from accidently hitting her with the car?

It makes me wonder if there was an eyewitness.

What if she was walking along and a car came up behind her and started charging at her causing her pace, heartbeat and direction to suddenly increase erratically as she dodged and weaved, and then, the pace, the heartbeat, the activity suddenly and completely stops altogether? All on, all off.
The smart watch was dropped in the frenzy and retrieved by the police even. Possible? Does it fit deliberate act?

 

[Bats]

What if she was walking along and a car came up behind her and started charging at her causing her pace, heartbeat and direction to suddenly increase erratically as she dodged and weaved, and then, the pace, the heartbeat, the activity suddenly and completely stops altogether? All on, all off.
The smart watch was dropped in the frenzy and retrieved by the police even. Possible? Does it fit deliberate act?

I guess what you're surmising is, could the evidence they're basing the murder charge on be a false interpretation of what actually happened?

The Police would realise this before they lay charges. It is imperative that the evidence they're going to be using is unambiguous. If there is the slightest bit of ambiguity, the defence will jump on it as it will cast doubt on the evidence that the prosecution are relying on.

The Police would consider all this before laying the murder charge.

 

[mrjitty]

In murder cases the intention of the accused is typically inferred from circumstantial evidence (unless the accused confesses).

So for example if cause of death is stabbing, then the intention can be inferred from circumstances (e.g efforts to conceal the crime, failure to seek help etc)

This becomes more difficult in no body cases where cause of death may also need to be inferred and might be non-specific. But that does not mean it can't be inferred with great confidence. e.g say for example blood evidence were found on the a weapon belonging to a hypothetical accused ... These sorts of forensics combined with efforts to destroy evidence and obstruct justice a frequently used to impute guilty knowledge.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

The state does not normally need to rule out speculative theories for which there is no evidence. So for example a theory where the victim died negligently in a fight - the accused would have needed to give evidence of that e.g in a pretrial interview. You cannot just magic a speculated version based on no evidence at all. There needs to be foundation.

 

[FromGermany1]

To me, that was another pointer that things had broken down with his legal reps. No barrister would have let him enter the courtroom without a 40 minute woodshedding on how to sit, stand, speak,, how to comport himself to his very best advantage. It is part of their job, putting their client at his/her best projection., .. I don't doubt that Allen spoke with him about this, 'uncross your arms'.. , and I don't doubt that Stephenson said a big up yours to him, to the court, to Mick Murphy, to Lorna Murphy, and to his own sisters...

I don't think, a rebel (I assume) like him is ready to take advices. Advices from whomever might be his main problem. I imagine, he would do the opposite always. MOO

 

[Rocket333]

DBM

 

[Rocket333]

In murder cases the intention of the accused is typically inferred from circumstantial evidence (unless the accused confesses).

So for example if cause of death is stabbing, then the intention can be inferred from circumstances (e.g efforts to conceal the crime, failure to seek help etc)

This becomes more difficult in no body cases where cause of death may also need to be inferred and might be non-specific. But that does not mean it can't be inferred with great confidence. e.g say for example blood evidence were found on the a weapon belonging to a hypothetical accused ... These sorts of forensics combined with efforts to destroy evidence and obstruct justice a frequently used to impute guilty knowledge.

MOO

Thanks MrJitty, that answers my questions about ‘no body & no footage of the act’ proof.

If the ute was used to transport and conceal the body, the police would be wanting to seize it as soon as possible to preserve evidence. PS was allegedly under surveillance for at least a couple of weeks prior to arrest. What do police do during the surveillance period if the POI heads to a car wash or starts scrubbing it in the drive way?

 

[Rocket333]

In murder cases the intention of the accused is typically inferred from circumstantial evidence (unless the accused confesses).

So for example if cause of death is stabbing, then the intention can be inferred from circumstances (e.g efforts to conceal the crime, failure to seek help etc)

This becomes more difficult in no body cases where cause of death may also need to be inferred and might be non-specific. But that does not mean it can't be inferred with great confidence. e.g say for example blood evidence were found on the a weapon belonging to a hypothetical accused ... These sorts of forensics combined with efforts to destroy evidence and obstruct justice a frequently used to impute guilty knowledge.

MOO

Thanks MrJitty, that answers my questions about ‘no body & no footage of the act’ proof.

If the ute was used to transport and conceal the body, the police would be wanting to seize it as soon as possible to preserve evidence. PS was allegedly under surveillance for at least a couple of weeks prior to arrest. What do police do during the surveillance period if the POI heads to a car wash or starts scrubbing it in the drive way?

 

[Rumination1]

I find the patience needed to watch the wheels of justice turn very hard to find sometimes . Feeling very impatient for the Murphy family to have answers. I wonder how active the police search for her body currently is…. Anyone know how many officers remain assigned to that ?

 

[Deleted member 296739]

How long until actual trial and jury and presentation of evidence in this case? I know he’s got a deadline for filing his alibi, what are the steps after that? Could it be to trial before the new year?

 

[Trooper]

The state does not normally need to rule out speculative theories for which there is no evidence. So for example a theory where the victim died negligently in a fight - the accused would have needed to give evidence of that e.g in a pretrial interview. You cannot just magic a speculated version based on no evidence at all. There needs to be foundation.

When Patton said , it was murder, it was plain to me that VICPOL had evidence, of the admissible sort, the sort that is platinum , with a titanium coating, that showed I.N.T.E.N.T. ... that's a lot more than pings, and relays, and dashcams, etc can show.

 

[Trooper]

How long until actual trial and jury and presentation of evidence in this case? I know he’s got a deadline for filing his alibi, what are the steps after that? Could it be to trial before the new year?

Unlikely... once his Notification is submitted, the prosecutor has to receive it, ( court delivered) , and then VICPOL has to be given the opportunity to check out it's validity. .. so.. u n l i k e l y....

 

[Deleted member 296739]

Unlikely... once his Notification is submitted, the prosecutor has to receive it, ( court delivered) , and then VICPOL has to be given the opportunity to check out it's validity. .. so.. u n l i k e l y....

Ok thank you

 

[Macha]

Thanks MrJitty, that answers my questions about ‘no body & no footage of the act’ proof.

If the ute was used to transport and conceal the body, the police would be wanting to seize it as soon as possible to preserve evidence. PS was allegedly under surveillance for at least a couple of weeks prior to arrest. What do police do during the surveillance period if the POI heads to a car wash or starts scrubbing it in the drive way?

JMO The Ute belongs to his father, not the suspect. He'd have used another vehicle. Possibly his own car. Hence the police saying about the damaged vehicle.

 

[Warshawski]

JMO The Ute belongs to his father, not the suspect. He'd have used another vehicle. Possibly his own car. Hence the police saying about the damaged vehicle.

I was Corrected by someone on this or another forum, and told he did not work for his father.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

It doesn't matter how many times this mantra is repeated, it is meaningless without the concrete rider that this presumption is in a Court of Law. In the public domain, not so.

I agree...

Realistically...
there must be some thing that pushes him a little past innocence... towards guilty right now...

Or he would be walking a free man.

JMO...

 

[HoneyBunOne]

Thanks MrJitty, that answers my questions about ‘no body & no footage of the act’ proof.

If the ute was used to transport and conceal the body, the police would be wanting to seize it as soon as possible to preserve evidence. PS was allegedly under surveillance for at least a couple of weeks prior to arrest. What do police do during the surveillance period if the POI heads to a car wash or starts scrubbing it in the drive way?

I'm fairly certain you can wash and scrub all you like, with all manner of equipment and chemicals, but you can't get all traces of blood or DNA out. Forensics is amazing in finding the most minute sample.

When Patton said , it was murder, it was plain to me that VICPOL had evidence, of the admissible sort, the sort that is platinum , with a titanium coating, that showed I.N.T.E.N.T. ... that's a lot more than pings, and relays, and dashcams, etc can show.

I agree. It seemed to me Patton was very emphatic when making the claim that:
A) A "deliberate act" was committed
B) It occurred at 8am or thereabouts
c) Mt Clear was the location
This was quite early on in the piece, around 1 month after she disappeared I believe, and around the time PS was arrested. He was on the radar of police 2 weeks before this, and likely had his home(s)/car/phone etc tapped. What was heard during this time I wonder??

I was Corrected by someone on this or another forum, and told he did not work for his father

What is your source please? This is the first I have heard of this.

 

[Marg944]

JMO The Ute belongs to his father, not the suspect. He'd have used another vehicle. Possibly his own car. Hence the police saying about the damaged vehicle.

I always thought the seized ute was the alleged murderers. Why do you think it is his father’s?

 

[Trooper]

I always thought the seized ute was the alleged murderers. Why do you think it is his father’s?

I'd assumed the utes, both father and son's were company vehicles, for tax purposes, ( registration as commercial vehicles, v private vehicles is much lower ) and registered, and insured under his dad's electrician company...

 

[Marg944]

I'd assumed the utes, both father and son's were company vehicles, for tax purposes, ( registration as commercial vehicles, v private vehicles is much lower ) and registered, and insured under his dad's electrician company...

I have just checked the registration of his Ute, and online does not show if the car is business or private unfortunately.