SAR mapping/satellite of the river

[Oriah]

On the NE side of the bridge, there is a BP station. I believe it closed at Midnight. Easy drop-off, easy pick-up. And before anyone speculates...
NO... It's not the same BP where the video surveillance footage was shown on TV.

No speculation on this thread, indepmo!
I opened the thread to run far far away from speculation, lol.

Just trying to get a good feel of where the river may have taken something- including any potential evidence- and at what rate of speed etc. And that bridge is a good spot to use as a reference point.

Another question- and thank you for taking time to answer all of these- do you know if Holliday Sand and Gravel shares a contract for dredging the river east of the 435 bridge? I tried to contact them but boy, they were tight-lipped.
I'm wondering about your comment regarding parts of bodies showing up as far away as Lexington...and wondering during dredging and relocating sediments, things are moved around mechanically- not necessarily by the current only. Thoughts?

 

[indepmo]

No speculation on this thread, indepmo!
I opened the thread to run far far away from speculation, lol.

Just trying to get a good feel of where the river may have taken something- including any potential evidence- and at what rate of speed etc. And that bridge is a good spot to use as a reference point.

Another question- and thank you for taking time to answer all of these- do you know if Holliday Sand and Gravel shares a contract for dredging the river east of the 435 bridge? I tried to contact them but boy, they were tight-lipped.
I'm wondering about your comment regarding parts of bodies showing up as far away as Lexington...and wondering during dredging and relocating sediments, things are moved around mechanically- not necessarily by the current only. Thoughts?

I have no knowledge about the businesses there. One can assume when receiving a phone call like that, it's either competition on the other end, or someone doing legal legwork which would probably seal lips pretty quick.

To give you a brief summary about the body parts, there is a very good write up about the serial killer and body parts here:
http://www.zolaenterprises.com/Thomas.htm

I can also tell you that the bodies of close to 20 prostitutes have been found in the Missouri River over the last 20 years, although police still do no know if the murders are the work a single serial killer or multiple murderers.Many were surgically cut up, and I can recall a story of a fisherman finding or catching a leg out near Wellington, MO which is located between Sibley, MO and Lexington, MO.

The river current is pretty calm now. During the summer, the water was up pretty high and it was flowing fast.

If something was weighed down, depending on the method it could sit there for a very long time unless it was either moved mechanically, or age and wear would move an item after deterioration or water motion would take it's toll on it.

There are many areas along the river where large tree size items end up, almost looking like a large pile of trees/branches/driftwood. Most of these "piles" are at turns in the river, and they remain intact until a good increase of water elevation takes place from heavy rain, or melting in the Rockies.

In this video, go to the 3:45 minute mark. This is at LaBanite park in Sugar Creek, MO. About 7 miles east of the location being discussed here.
At the end of this video, you will see a leaf in the water traveling slowely, but it gives you an idea of the flow.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM-Xb-Xe0hg"]Baby Lisa Irwin - Corner where man was seen on video - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Oriah]

Yep, I pretty much figured that's what would happen when I called, lol, but thought I'd give it a shot anyway. Here, we have dredging companies that relocate sediment to dirt pits on shore to be resold or used to revitalize coastlines and 'fill' building pads that otherwise won't perc. Often the dredgers have identifying marks on them that you can associate with specific companies- so thought that might be the same there and was hoping a local might know. Kind of want to know what was dredged and relocated, and when- mechanical movement of remains in water is an important factor, imvho.
We've had a few body parts show up here in dirt pits on other beaches, rivers quite aways away from the initial dump site, etc also- completely unknown to the dredging company.

Anyway- thank you for the link re: the body parts.
Will continue to look at the river.

Thanks for all of your thoughts.

 

[ynotdivein]

This might just be completely out of left field, but if anyone knows it will be the folks here. An acquaintance used to do work with the Army Corps of Engineers. Do we know if any ACE projects have taken/are taking place in this area? I know they have been working a lot on the Missouri. Any dredging or other activity by them recently in Lisa's area?

 

[indepmo]

This is the only news I've seen on it recently, and it was the topic of conversation due to the flooding this summer

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...cNiKCw?docId=1a7370b9a20a4ad883b0be6f55cce613

 

[Jacie Estes]

One turn-around point if I were driving south across the Chouteau bridge would be to travel south across, turn right on N. Chouteau Trfy, head back N. along the W side of Chouteau, turn right to go under bridge, take my first right S. on Chouteau Bridge Rd then back north on Chouteau.

If traveling S. across the I-435 bridge, Front Street would be my 1st choice there.

I've noted both of those travel points as they both cross the river (driving).



Walking...
There is a void between the lanes of traffic on the Chouteau bridge, and only chain link fencing not meant to walk on, but placed between the lanes of travel to protect anyone from falling to their death.

I would never want to even stop my vehicle on the I-435 bridge in fear of getting rear ended, and certainly not walk on it because there are no shoulders. . Once again, 65mph zone.

I went over this bridge twice a day in my commute and the only time I can remember stopping on it was when the traffic was backed up that far.

Indepmo, when you are headed on 435 toward 70, on the left hand side there was a Bayer plant with lots of open area around it. I'm wondering about the estuaries off of the river and the possibility of a smaller body getting caught up in vegetation around there.

Another thought, if Dane is familiar with, from, Platte City area, there are so many places to pull in along the Platte River. Providing there was a form of transportation other than feet or a bicycle.

 

[Jacie Estes]

I have no knowledge about the businesses there. One can assume when receiving a phone call like that, it's either competition on the other end, or someone doing legal legwork which would probably seal lips pretty quick.

To give you a brief summary about the body parts, there is a very good write up about the serial killer and body parts here:
http://www.zolaenterprises.com/Thomas.htm

I can also tell you that the bodies of close to 20 prostitutes have been found in the Missouri River over the last 20 years, although police still do no know if the murders are the work a single serial killer or multiple murderers.Many were surgically cut up, and I can recall a story of a fisherman finding or catching a leg out near Wellington, MO which is located between Sibley, MO and Lexington, MO.

The river current is pretty calm now. During the summer, the water was up pretty high and it was flowing fast.

If something was weighed down, depending on the method it could sit there for a very long time unless it was either moved mechanically, or age and wear would move an item after deterioration or water motion would take it's toll on it.

There are many areas along the river where large tree size items end up, almost looking like a large pile of trees/branches/driftwood. Most of these "piles" are at turns in the river, and they remain intact until a good increase of water elevation takes place from heavy rain, or melting in the Rockies.

In this video, go to the 3:45 minute mark. This is at LaBanite park in Sugar Creek, MO. About 7 miles east of the location being discussed here.
At the end of this video, you will see a leaf in the water traveling slowely, but it gives you an idea of the flow.

Baby Lisa Irwin - Corner where man was seen on video - YouTube

BBM I've wondered about Sugar Creek or the Little Blue.

 

[DeAnn]

Are there any examples of bodies being located in this river and where the entry points would have been?

Suicides off the bridges.

 

[Oriah]

This might just be completely out of left field, but if anyone knows it will be the folks here. An acquaintance used to do work with the Army Corps of Engineers. Do we know if any ACE projects have taken/are taking place in this area? I know they have been working a lot on the Missouri. Any dredging or other activity by them recently in Lisa's area?

I have an engineer friend as well with the Army Corp, ynot- although not in MO. Will call and see if they can get the data.

 

[Oriah]

Do we have any locals who fish recreationally? Been doing a little research on deadfall and log jams along the river as possible sites where something could be caught up, and they seem to be popular coordinates for local fishers. Anyone know if this is the case? Also, would love to know if anyone has inside knowledge of Little and Big Sugar Creek (same- deadfall and log jams, boulders, etc.) TIA.

 

[sherbetjello]

I am trying to find the appropriate thread to put this question in, so pardon me if this is loose or o/t:

Are searches taking place?

 

[Oriah]

This might just be completely out of left field, but if anyone knows it will be the folks here. An acquaintance used to do work with the Army Corps of Engineers. Do we know if any ACE projects have taken/are taking place in this area? I know they have been working a lot on the Missouri. Any dredging or other activity by them recently in Lisa's area?

I still haven't heard what is being worked on right now (or was at the time Lisa went missing) but this is some informative reading:

http://www.nwk.usace.army.mil/RiverCharts/MoRiver_NavCharts_0-500.pdf

Gives great info. Warning- it's a pretty big pdf.

 

[DeAnn]

I am trying to find the appropriate thread to put this question in, so pardon me if this is loose or o/t:

Are searches taking place?

No active searches but they follow up on tips as needed in the field. Hope this helps.

 

[Oriah]

Any locals- I need help!

If you follow the BNRR toward Forest City (using the river as a guide- so they don't run parallel, they kind of squirm around one another) it appears the river has a really sharp NE turn off of 35 where the RR is parallel, and then takes a sharp W turn. The current is still running W-E, but the road on the levee on the N side is actually running the opposite of the current. Is that accurate?
This river is quite the challenge.

Trying to figure out if that is the same area that the floods moved so much sediment and created that huge unstable sinkhole farther W.

TIA if anyone knows this- or heck, if anyone understands what I'm asking!

 

[In da Middle]

Are you talking Forest City up closer to the MO-NB-IA border? That's waaaaay upstream, but yes, if you are talking that area, it runs basically south and east up there making the Missouri western border. It makes it's major turn to the east right in Kansas City, then runs east until it ends with the Mississippi in St. Louis.

 

[Oriah]

Are you talking Forest City up closer to the MO-NB-IA border? That's waaaaay upstream, but yes, if you are talking that area, it runs basically south and east up there making the Missouri western border. It makes it's major turn to the east right in Kansas City, then runs east until it ends with the Mississippi in St. Louis.

Thanks In da Middle. Yes that was what I was referring to. I know it's not an area of interest but I am trying to get the entire MO and Kansas direction and flow as accurate as possible so we can look more closely downstream and see what would have happened there. There's this rather large washout- looks like a dredge site, but I think it is a sediment wash from flood waters right by this grain elevator downstream (N side of levee.) I was trying to figure out where that wash would be right now. :waitasec:

Tricky, your river is! Thanks again.

 

[indepmo]

Oriah,

If you are using google earth and I assume you are, click on the clock icon to "Show historical imagery", and if you set your date to 3/2008 this will display the river level to where it is about currently. The 6/2011 imagery shows this summers flooding

 

[KsStormy]

Oriah,

If you are using google earth and I assume you are, click on the clock icon to "Show historical imagery", and if you set your date to 3/2008 this will display the river level to where it is about currently. The 6/2011 imagery shows this summers flooding

Thank you! I was looking at the river after I went up there yesterday last night on Google Earth, & figured that image had to be during the flooding.

 

[Oriah]

Oriah,

If you are using google earth and I assume you are, click on the clock icon to "Show historical imagery", and if you set your date to 3/2008 this will display the river level to where it is about currently. The 6/2011 imagery shows this summers flooding

Thanks indepmo. I actually don't use google earth unless I have to, lol. But I know exactly what you mean.

Do you know the washout I'm talking about (it's actually kind of a ditch, midway between banks?) I am trying to figure out where the silt deposit ended up. It appears to be a result of the flooding, and is a good chunk of river basin/wash almost right adjacent to the grain elevator. TIA.

 

[indepmo]

Thanks indepmo. I actually don't use google earth unless I have to, lol. But I know exactly what you mean.

Do you know the washout I'm talking about (it's actually kind of a ditch, midway between banks?) I am trying to figure out where the silt deposit ended up. It appears to be a result of the flooding, and is a good chunk of river basin/wash almost right adjacent to the grain elevator. TIA.

Oriah,

I link would be helpful. If you are talking about traveling west towards the fairfax area, there is an airport at the sharp turn. The Kansas City downtown airport. Maybe you can post a google map link so I know we are looking at the same thing.