SC - Columbia - Sheriff Slams Female Student to Floor In Class - #2

[LaLaw2000]

Thank you, EllieBee! Dinner is at 7:30!

 

[katydid23]

There is nothing legally to stop all the students who witnessed her past behavior from speaking out though. And again- crickets....

Nothing legally to stop them, but there is peer pressure. Surely kids would be intimidated about speaking their mind in some cases.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Apparently, rude posts are okay if you write "hugs" at the end.

Not true. Hugs is when you are enjoying someone's conversation whether in agreement or disagreement.

A thread isn't challenging to the thought process when everyone agrees. Jmo. Athletes do hug members from the other team as well. It's just a sign of respect for them given it their all. Jmo

 

[katydid23]

The ones supporting him aren't afraid of him. What about the students who aren't supporting him?

I hope those who do not 'support' the rules are afraid of him. He works hard to keep weapons out of the school and to keep dealers from selling on campus. I do hope they are afraid of him otherwise he is not a deterrent.

 

[al66pine]

My notes in green.

Here's a thought... what happens if the schools remove all law enforcement and allowed the school admin. to deal with the students ; with absolutely no police involvement whatsoever ?
If "no police involvement, what do admin'rs do when -
- knife fight between students occurs?
- student teacher who falls to concrete, breaks head open, loses lot of blood?
- student driving own car runs down someone in parking lot.
- student brings gun to school and displays?
Can/should admin'rs call 911 to summon LE (and EMT)?

And for some students who don't want to follow the school's guidelines, use suspensions.
Schools do use suspensions, hopefully per SVHS and district handbooks, linked several times. Ditto expulsions. Maybe not frequently enough, maybe too frequently, IDK.

Shouldn't the school admin. be allowed to set the rules and enforce them as they see fit ;
IIUC, upper admin'tn, maybe even school bd itself, adopts district and HS "rules" or policies for admin'tn to enforce.

and with no other outside sources being brought in ?
Seems there are/will be occasions when admin'rs need to call for LE to come to campus.
MOO

Seems like there's overlap between student behavior -
- which merits school discipline (detention, suspension, expulsion) and
- which amounts to criminal acts and warrant LEO being summoned to (possibly) arrest.
Sometimes a lot of overlap, sometimes just a thin line. Not necessarily an either-or decision, could be both.
Agreeing that preference would be to handle as school disc. matter. Not always poss. JM2cts.

 

[katydid23]

Underlined by me.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/sheriff-decide-deputy-job-classroom-arrest-34786058

"She wasn't a danger at that point; she was just being non-compliant and disrespectful. You try to de-escalate a situation.

Same or similar article linked in post #413.

Imo, both statements are a reflection of the underlying cause of this incident - the thought or idea that 'my respect' is on the line. It's the start of escalating a situation by not focusing on the situation at hand.

If the teacher felt he was in a bad position because every student was watching him, and that he would lose control of his classroom due to this situation - then there is a problem there imo.
As pointed out many times, he had options to de-escalate and he ought to have known that through training and experience. He refused to take one of those options. As did the administrator. Now they are both on leave from their jobs.

Same for Lott imo - stating that disrespect from the student was behind, or partly behind, the decision to take the matter to a higher level. He had to fire his officer.

Every adult knows or should know respect is earned, not a given right.

She was non-compliant as Lott pointed out - but to mix disrespectful in the equation - personalizing.

I thank both people for their opinion that disrespect and perception of others in the moment was a reason to escalate - it might explain what happens at some traffic stops (it does for me). I wish others luck that such focus and worry can be overcome.

All jmo.

Yes, it would be very nice if a high school teacher did not need to worry about having control over 35 teens in their classroom every day. It would be great if they did not need the respect and an element of fear to keep them all in line. Have you ever tried to teach algebra to 35 uninterested and distracted kids?

I saw firsthand what it is like when kids run all over their teachers. NONE of the other students get to learn anything in those situations.

People say that the teacher should have told her he would deal with her after class. So why would she be any more compliant then? Why wouldn't she have just walked away from him then?

I stand by my belief that he needed to back up his word in class. There are articles which said he had asked her a couple of times to stop looking at her phone. He had every right to ask her to hand it over. Once he has done so, he cannot back down if she refuses his authority.

We all know what happens with our own kids if we make threats like a Time Out, and then never follow through. They quickly know that we give hollow threats and take advantage of us. JMO

 

[al66pine]

No, I was referring to when you asked for clarification on "many" and "a lot." Perfectly, legit, because they are totally subjective and could mean different things to different people. But you said something funny (I thought it was funny) about the numerical value or calculation, so when I saw the comment
"Some" and "many" aren't synonyms" I thought of you.

Oh, that. IIRC someone posted (my paraphrasing --->) 2 occurrences of action x is a lot in 7 or 10 yrs.
Depends on how you define 'it'(<--- as our former President C. famously said). Or lot.

 

[Hope4More]

What I see here is a student who has no respect for the teacher or for authority. The student did not get to the 12th grade without knowing that disruptive behavior in the classroom would not be tolerated. She clearly knew she shouldn't have even had that cell phone in her hand during class.

I also see a teacher who over-reacted in calling the officer into the classroom. I am much older than most all of you, but the way my teacher(s) would have handled it is to tell the class that we would now pause the class and remain quiet until the cell phone business was done. If it took the rest of the class, then so be it. The problem could have been dealt with at the end of the class time. Even though the student is a senior, the parents would and should have been contacted and the student suspended. The parents might have successfully dealt with their daughter at home.

The officer was clearly aggressive, IMO. I think he dealt with the situation in a manner he would have done if on the street. His training would have dictated giving warnings, then if his instructions were ignored he could have used more aggressive means such as the ones he used. BUT, this was not a street situation and I honestly believe he was way out of line to do as he did.

IMO, the student should have been suspended. The teacher(s) should have training in how to control their classroom(s). The teacher apparently passed off the problem to the officer when it could have been handled in a much different manner.

I know hindsight is 20/20, but there should never be a situation where a student is treated this aggressively unless he/she has a weapon or has physically threatened someone.

If this had been my daughter, I would have appreciated a call right then from the teacher or principal. I would have dealt with it at home. But no, the teacher felt it necessary to call the officer to the classroom because he could not, or thought he could not, handle it himself. What would have been wrong with just halting the class and remaining silent until the student either complied with putting the cell phone away or continued on until running the class time out? THEN the problem could have been dealt with.

IMO, some teachers need training in controlling their classrooms and taking a common sense approach to a problem such as this. IMO, school officers need training in handling non threatening and non violent student infractions.

There! I have had my say and am prepared for the tomatoes being thrown my way! Please throw fresh ones and I will make some great spaghetti sauce for dinner!

MOO

ETA: The students need to realize that there will be consequences to infractions of school rules, but not violent consequences. Suspensions, definitely.

The teacher did not call in the cop, he called in the assistant principal who after being disobeyed called Fields in to remove the student.


Why fault the teacher when there is zero information available about whether or not he handled the situation appropriately?

Anything is possible. He could be an inept crappy teacher with a big ego, or a racist inept teacher, or the school's best and most experienced teacher with a wall covered with teaching awards, or just an average teacher having a bad day or an average teacher who was following school policy to the letter every step of the way,whether or not he even agreed with it.

Any guess will do. The only certain information available is that the student disobeyed all authorities, repeatedly, that the AP called in the cop, and that the cop used force that violated policy, for which he was fired.

 

[ohreally]

I realize I am probably the lone poster that feels resource officers belong in every school. I cannot forget Sandy Hook, Columbia and all of the other school shootings. I also like that in our district they are full fledged sherriff or city police officers not school board employees.
Our school district is talking about starting their own police department which I don't agree with. IMO it is the way for the district to circumvent the system and have total control over the students and laws.
Just my two cents.

 

[LaLaw2000]

Thanks for correcting me, Hope4More. My opinion remains the same though.

MOO

 

[Hope4More]

Nothing legally to stop them, but there is peer pressure. Surely kids would be intimidated about speaking their mind in some cases.

Peer pressure, wise parents, fear. One of the 3 video taking students refused to be seen on camera or to have his name released. For him, that was based on fear, since his opinion differed from that of the other 2 kids: he thought the girl was equally responsible.

 

[Tricia]

WOW.

So many long time members who KNOW BETTER are violating our terms of service.

SillyBilly has removed a very high number of posts.

Let me ask you...WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?

Can we PLEASE discuss like adults and not insult each other?

That's all we ask. That's it. We don't ask you for anything else other than to discuss topics is a polite and adult manner.

Honestly, I don't know what else to say.

Tricia

 

[katydid23]

If other kids in the class had cell phones he was obviously having difficulty enforcing the no-cell-phones rule.

The policy is not 'no cell phones.' The policy is that the cells need to be put away in the back pack or coat pocket. But obviously, by the time the Deputy arrived, regular classtime was over...

 

[Hope4More]

Thanks for correcting me, Hope4More. My opinion remains the same though.

MOO

That the teacher didn't handle the situation correctly? If so, what are you basing your opinion upon?

 

[al66pine]

A phone call to the home after school would suffice my friend. I doubt she would show up the next day. So I was not stating for him to escort her to the office nor off the premises.

Admin'r tells student in class, in front of other students, 'you are suspended for x period of time'?
OR
Before notifying student of suspension, but at end of school day, admin'r phones to tell parent/guardian of suspension?
OR
other?

 

[bluesneakers]

The policy is not 'no cell phones.' The policy is that the cells need to be put away in the back pack or coat pocket. But obviously, by the time the Deputy arrived, regular classtime was over...

This is the comment I was responding to:

Thanks to the disruptive student's disruption. I've seen no reports that the teacher was having any difficulty enforcing the no-cell-phones rule until the disruptive student disrupted the class with her cell phone usage.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Anything is possible. He could be an inept crappy teacher with a big ego, or a racist inept teacher, or the school's best and most experienced teacher with a wall covered with teaching awards, or just an average teacher having a bad day or an average teacher who was following school policy to the letter every step of the way,whether or not he even agreed with it.

Any guess will do. The only certain information available is that the student disobeyed all authorities, repeatedly, that the AP called in the cop, and that the cop used force that violated policy, for which he was fired.

Snipped for focus. I agree with you 100%, we don't know anything about the teacher and the only certain information available is what you stated.

I would like to jump off from your post to add that this hasn't stopped numerous posters from making wild speculation about the student based on this same limited information: she's a troublemaker, bad student, discipline case, is headed for a disastrous future, has learning/emotional problems, needs a psychological evaluation, etc.

Speculation isn't fair to the teacher, and it's not fair to the student either, when we have very limited information about both.

 

[Hope4More]

I realize I am probably the lone poster that feels resource officers belong in every school. I cannot forget Sandy Hook, Columbia and all of the other school shootings. I also like that in our district they are full fledged sherriff or city police officers not school board employees.
Our school district is talking about starting their own police department which I don't agree with. IMO it is the way for the district to circumvent the system and have total control over the students and laws.
Just my two cents.

The thought of school districts creating their own police departments boggles my mind. How disturbing!!!

I can understand your fears about school safety, since school shootings and massacres have become almost commonplace here in the US. My kid attends a public school in a very violent city, so I share your fear as well as understand it.

But I just can't agree about having full fledged cops in school, much less calling upon them to handle what are the basic responsibilities of teachers and administrators.

I'll go the one step further and say what scares me more than school violence is watching the seeds of a genuine police state being planted in the hallways of our impressionable kids' schools.

 

[Hope4More]

Snipped for focus. I agree with you 100%, we don't know anything about the teacher and the only certain information available is what you stated.

I would like to jump off from your post to add that this hasn't stopped numerous posters from making wild speculation about the student based on this same limited information: she's a troublemaker, bad student, discipline case, is headed for a disastrous future, has learning/emotional problems, needs a psychological evaluation, etc.

Speculation isn't fair to the teacher, and it's not fair to the student either, when we have very limited information about both.

And I agree with you 100% on that point.

 

[LietKynes]

My notes in green.


Seems like there's overlap between student behavior -
which merits school discipline (detention, suspension, expulsion) and
behavior that amount to criminal acts and warrant LEO being summoned to (possibly) arrest.
Sometimes a lot of overlap, sometimes just a thin line. Not necessarily an either-or decision, could be both.
Agreeing that preference would be to handle as school disc. matter. Not always poss. JM2cts.

RSBM

You make some good points.
There are some school districts that maybe cannot return to the "good old days" of schools without leo's in the hallways.
And maybe the 'good old days ' are a myth ? Idk, but I do not remember any leo's in the schools at all.

That post of the student who attacked his physics instructor for confiscating (or attempting to do so) said students' phone is horrifying. Made me wonder what was on the student's phone that was so important ?
Imo, the teachers SHOULD BE ALLOWED to defend themselves without repercussion ; and w/o having to resort to calling le. And only the student should be charged -- even if his/her instructor tries to defend themselves.

Wouldn't it be better to just call in leo only when needed -- but not have them policing the hallways ?
Just thinking of a more efficient way to avoid confrontations.
Imo