SC - Columbia - Sheriff Slams Female Student to Floor In Class - #2

[Deleted member 39678]

I don't think that schools should have police officers working full time in them anymore. In today's society it doesn't matter if the officer is justified in arresting an unruly student. People will complain and lawsuits will be filed.

If teachers and school administrators can't handle their students they need to be fired. JMO

 

[EllieBee]

I don't think that schools should have police officers working full time in them anymore. In today's society it doesn't matter if the officer is justified in arresting an unruly student. People will complain and lawsuits will be filed.

If teachers and school administrators can't handle their students they need to be fired. JMO

I totally agree that police have no place in a school.

 

[bluesneakers]

She's not a victim in the usual sense of the word as it applies at Websleuths. Obviously, there was wrong on both sides. That said, posts that are deliberately mean-spirited won't be allowed. Posters, however, aren't prohibited from expressing the view that the officer's actions were warranted.

I'd advise that rather than continue to focus on the student, a more productive discussion would come from debating the issue of whether or not LEO's should be school monitors. In other words, focus on the issues, and not the individuals. And as always, don't expect to change anyone's mind.

"Unfortunately, our Legislature passed a law that's called 'disturbing schools,' " he [Richland County Sheriff Leon Lott] said.

"If a student disturbs school -- and that's a wide range of activities, 'disturbing schools' -- they can be arrested. Our goal has always been to see what we can do without arresting the kids. We don't need to arrest these students. We need to keep them in schools."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/29/us/south-carolina-school-arrest-videos/

Officers can 'break down these barriers'

"It breaks down these barriers where the law enforcement officers are seen as an enemy," said Michael Allison, a Pennsylvania high school principal and president of the National Association of Secondary School Principals. "In the majority of cases around the country, that's what school resource officers are doing every day."

Mo Canady, executive director of the National Association of School Resource Officers, said it takes a special kind of officer.

"That's one of the most unique jobs in law enforcement and it takes a very unique individual who understands that to some degree students have a different way about them sometimes," he said. "And you know, they're going to say and do things that we might not like, but are not necessarily criminal in nature."

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/27/us/south-carolina-school-resource-officers/

And btw, if you don't want a vacay, don't respond.

BBM:
This is what's troubling to me. I understand there are SROs in schools all over the country and incidents like this are rare. But when we see videos of children being treated like criminals it's difficult for me to think the program is a good idea. If they're going to put these cops in schools the cops should be trained to NOT treat kids who break rules as if they're hardened criminals.

I still can't get over seeing the 8yo boy, hands behind his back and handcuffs on his biceps. Handcuffs aren't meant to be used that way! In any other situation that would be abuse, but because the person abusing the child had a badge it was all a-okay. Same with what happened here. Excessive force and there was no need for it.

And this:

Oklahoma City school cop is charged with assault and battery after punching student, 16, in the face TWICE because he was in the hallway without a pass

JMO.

 

[bluesneakers]

I totally agree that police have no place in a school.

I agree. We're putting our children at risk and I don't see any evidence it's worth the price. Especially looking back at how many years schools operated just fine without cops patrolling the halls.

 

[katydid23]

If they took the cops out of the inner city schools there would be violent mayhem.

 

[katydid23]

The RSO's confiscate knives and guns on campus. They break up violent brawls. It is not just arguments with girls who want to keep their cell phones tha they have to deal with.

 

[EllieBee]

BBM:
This is what's troubling to me. I understand there are SROs in schools all over the country and incidents like this are rare. But when we see videos of children being treated like criminals it's difficult for me to think the program is a good idea. If they're going to put these cops in schools the cops should be trained to NOT treat kids who break rules as if they're hardened criminals.

I still can't get over seeing the 8yo boy, hands behind his back and handcuffs on his biceps. Handcuffs aren't meant to be used that way! In any other situation that would be abuse, but because the person abusing the child had a badge it was all a-okay. Same with what happened here. Excessive force and there was no need for it.

And this:

Oklahoma City school cop is charged with assault and battery after punching student, 16, in the face TWICE because he was in the hallway without a pass

JMO.

I grieve for our children. Their world is just crappy. Kids are bullies, adults are bullies, shut the eff up, do what I say or I will beat you. . Don't piss me off or I will pound your sorry butt.

Lovely.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

If they took the cops out of the inner city schools there would be violent mayhem.

That's the way it goes.

It's going to get worse before it gets better for police officers. Why should they be subjected to firings and civil lawsuits for just doing their jobs.

I think it's time for them to retreat. JMO

 

[K_Z]

I think it's clear that police officers are essential in some public schools, and unnecessary in others. Because it would be hugely controversial to identify "criteria" for having, or not having police officers in schools, I think every public school district should have one or more officers present for the school day, and probably for some after school activities as well. It would just become the norm for all schools to have police present.

We are headed toward a 2 tier educational system again anyway, with the evolution of what public schools have become, and the mandate that students can almost never be expelled no matter how bad their behavior. We can't fix the problems of "bad" schools, IMO. May as well make all public schools "the same". Then there are fewer cries of discrimination.

If the public schools are good academically, and safe, more people will choose to go there. If not, people who are able will either choose another type of schooling (charter or private, or homeschool, etc), or move to a better area. As they have pretty much always done. We actually do have a tiered educational system, whether we want to admit it, or not.

Whether or not I choose to send my kids to a specific public school has little to do with whether or not there is a school resource officer present. But I want them there, and I do think they belong there-- even in "good schools" in "good neighborhoods". There is a lot to gain-- and I didn't always feel this way. My ideas about police in schools have changed a lot in the past 10 years.

 

[EllieBee]

That's the way it goes.

It's going to get worse before it gets better for police officers. Why should they be subjected to firings and civil lawsuits for just doing their jobs.

I think it's time for them to retreat. JMO

I agree. Too many cops are loose cannons, and frankly, the public schools are already underfunded and cannot afford the lawsuits brought on them by school cops who can't control their rage.

Buh bye, cops.

 

[katydid23]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...-body-slams-principal-fight-article-1.2414194

SEE IT: California high school student body slams principal during lunch room fight
Three Sacramento teens — two 15-year-olds and a 13-year-old — were arrested for the Monday lunch room melee at Florin High School, Fox 40 reported.
Video of the fracas showed a crowd of student spectators gathered around several warring teens. Principal Don Ross quickly jumped into the middle to break up the conflict, but one of the teens picked him up and threw him to the ground.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...teacher-fight-caught-camera-article-1.2091244



New Jersey high school freshman charged with assault for classroom fight with teacher that was caught on camera (VIDEO)*
The clip shows a 16-year-old student at John F. Kennedy High School in Paterson wrestling with his 62-year-old teacher and throwing the man to the ground before a classmate calls for security. The student allegedly assaulted his teacher for taking his cellphone. He's now been suspended from school.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...shes-teen-fight-high-school-article-1.1606292
14-year-old Bronx girl slashes another teen in the face in fight over a boy inside high school*
The two girls got into the bloody dispute around noon on Friday inside Bronx Aerospace High School, cops said.


======================================================

I think it is idealistic, wishful thinking to say that we do not need Resource officers in our schools.

 

[bluesneakers]

I agree. Too many cops are loose cannons, and frankly, the public schools are already underfunded and cannot afford the lawsuits brought on them by school cops who can't control their rage.

Buh bye, cops.

I'm with you.

:seeya:

 

[katydid23]

I agree. Too many cops are loose cannons, and frankly, the public schools are already underfunded and cannot afford the lawsuits brought on them by school cops who can't control their rage.

Buh bye, cops.

So how expensive will the lawsuits be once a student is assaulted by another student with a knife in the bathroom? Getting rid of the cops will empower and embolden the criminal element, imo.

 

[K_Z]

In fact, one could argue that if two officers had responded to the classroom situation together, there would have been LESS possibility of an escalation of violence by either the student OR the officer.

I think that scenario would have ended with the 2 officers and the vice principal escorting out the student, who would have walked untouched under her own power to the office. JMO.

 

[magnolia]

I understand what you are saying, but the sheriff wasn't there so had to rely on what was reported to him by others.

Who may or may not have had a vested interest in portraying the girl's behavior as worse than it was.

I'm not saying I think this is what happened, but I am allowing for the possibility and therefore not taking his statements as fact.

I'm quite sure the Sheriff interviewed witnesses, such as the teacher, that observed the girl's behavior. I don't believe the school would call in a deputy over a minor infraction. Part of the proof is in the video. She continued the defiance after the deputy arrived on the scene.

 

[JeannaT]

The RSO's confiscate knives and guns on campus. They break up violent brawls. It is not just arguments with girls who want to keep their cell phones tha they have to deal with.

I agree. Here's the thing. If they no longer allow large male teachers who are able to step in and break up fights, or step in and pull unruly students into the office, they need cops.

They DON'T need cops if we can go back to the day when large male teachers were able to step in and physically intervene and break up misbehavior.

Public schools invite EVERYONE. That means, there will be people who require physical intervention to enforce civil behavior. There is nowhere else in the US where EVERYONE is invited in, where there isn't someone allowed to grab people and force them to behave.

Honestly. Can anyone think of a single venue where everyone is welcome, where a police presence can't intervene physically?

If public schools were allowed the same privilege as private schools, that if you act this way you won't be able to come back, problem solved. The problem here is, they can't refuse to educate her. They have to.

 

[JeannaT]

In fact, one could argue that if two officers had responded to the classroom situation together, there would have been LESS possibility of an escalation of violence by either the student OR the officer.

I think that scenario would have ended with the 2 officers and the vice principal escorting out the student, who would have walked untouched under her own power to the office. JMO.

Not necessarily. It might have resulted in BOTH of them grabbing her under the armpits and trying to unrap the desk that she was in, unsuccessfully. It shouldn't take two cops to get a high school student out of her desk, IMHO. Honestly. If the teacher, vp and one cop can't do it, it's time for her to be removed permanently from the public school venue.

 

[K_Z]

Not necessarily. It might have resulted in BOTH of them grabbing her under the armpits and trying to unrap the desk that she was in, unsuccessfully. It shouldn't take two cops to get a high school student out of her desk, IMHO. Honestly. If the teacher, vp and one cop can't do it, it's time for her to be removed permanently from the public school venue.

I actually agree that she should be offered the opportunity to attend an alternative school, if she wants to. Maybe the pressures of the traditional school are too much for her, in her current situation in foster care, and losing her mother. Maybe she needs intensive counseling, and is in a bad place emotionally and psychologically.

Teachers should NOT have to be social workers, and mental health professionals-- they are TEACHERS, FGS. If some basic interventions don't resolve the situation in a crowded and diverse classroom, then it's time to remove the student from the mainstream school to a more supportive and closely monitored environment. Really, that's all we can do. The school simply cannot be parents, social workers, mental health, and the justice system all rolled into one-- the school should be a SCHOOL for academics first and foremost, IMO.

I don't know (none of us do) what her academic and behavioral history is, but if she is unwilling to complete what I outlined (ISS consequences, apologies, behavioral contracts, and conditional return to the classroom), then she becomes a candidate for alternative school. If she wants to remain in the school and progress toward graduation, she will want to work to restore herself to the regular school day, for her own benefit. She is 17-- allowed by law to decide to drop out of school, or continue toward graduation. It's her choice to make, IMO.

 

[sonjay]

I agree. Here's the thing. If they no longer allow large male teachers who are able to step in and break up fights, or step in and pull unruly students into the office, they need cops.

They DON'T need cops if we can go back to the day when large male teachers were able to step in and physically intervene and break up misbehavior.

Public schools invite EVERYONE. That means, there will be people who require physical intervention to enforce civil behavior. There is nowhere else in the US where EVERYONE is invited in, where there isn't someone allowed to grab people and force them to behave.

Honestly. Can anyone think of a single venue where everyone is welcome, where a police presence can't intervene physically?

If public schools were allowed the same privilege as private schools, that if you act this way you won't be able to come back, problem solved. The problem here is, they can't refuse to educate her. They have to.

I think the schools need to start expelling students again. Three strikes and you're out, for good. Send 'em to reform schools, or let 'em drop out. At 18, send them their diploma, which they would get anyway if they stayed in school, even if they can only read at a 3rd grade level.

Get the troublemakers out, so that the students who want to learn can do so without all the fights, disruptions, assaults, brawls, defiance, and other "behavioral problems."

 

[tangelo]

I agree. Too many cops are loose cannons, and frankly, the public schools are already underfunded and cannot afford the lawsuits brought on them by school cops who can't control their rage.

Buh bye, cops.

so its a money thing for you?
those kids were learning, supposedly, algebra 1 on chromebooks

did you see the end of the video where the kid filming it showed his test scored with all the answers marked wrong?