SC - Columbia - Sheriff Slams Female Student to Floor In Class - #2

[ohreally]

There is nothing legally to stop all the students who witnessed her past behavior from speaking out though. And again- crickets....

Agreed. As a parent I would be telling my child that no they are not going to do an interview for or against this student and set themselves up for retaliation from either side.
I believe it is in the best interest of this child, student and staff to let this calm down and get back to learning in the classrooms.

 

[ohreally]

And I'll add that the student in question is a minor for a few more months, but definitely NOT a "little girl". (LOL!)

The criminal justice system would charge and try her as an adult, so society as a whole does not view 16-17 year olds as "little children". A minor, yes-- for a few more months. But not a child.

The only time late teenagers (those who are intellectually within normal limits) are referred to by someone with an agenda as "little children", is when there is an effort to portray them to be not responsible for their actions. Or an effort to make them *appear* younger, so they can be portrayed as a "defenseless victim."

This 17 year old teenager is most definitely not a "little child". That term should be reserved for actual children who are elementary school aged and younger.

And she most definitely *should be* held responsible for her actions. I doubt she will be, with our current dysfunctional social and media activism controlling the narrative.

I still think she is salvageable, though, and every effort should be extended to try to help her with her social and emotional problems, and get her to graduate. It's the only and best chance she (and society) has at this point, IMO, with so much difficulty in her life already.

Always the voice of reason. I also believe this girl can be helped. She does need to be accountable for her actions. Only then will she learn how to grow. Weather she succeeds in life will depend on her and those she surrounds herself with. IMO her lawyer may win her a financial settlement and get public support behind her by twisting facts in the public, but other than financially it doesn't help her one bit. She will probably be eighteen before this is all settled. I hope that she finds a support system that supports her and what is best for her and not ones that have their own agenda.
While I do believe she was wrong with her actions that day I do wish the best for her in life.

 

[bluesneakers]

,,,,,

ETA: Forgot to add link.

http://www.wltx.com/story/news/loca...alley-incident-allowed-return-class/74942096/

But but but...

 

[bluesneakers]

BBM for focus.

Actually you said MANY teens.



"Some" and "many" aren't synonyms.

So I can see how the poster you are responding to might have interpreted "many" as "youth in general."

We need al66pine to break it apart for the mathematical formula.

(I'm teasing in the most light-hearted way, al66, because I saw you ask for similar answers earlier. No snark/harm intended. )

 

[bluesneakers]

Wait, what? Where did it say say the teacher and administrator are in danger of losing their jobs?

They're probably just on paid leave until the various investigations are cleared up. That's usually how these thing are handled. They will be cleared of any wrongdoing and sent back to class.

 

[Morag]

...that regardless of what anyone on here thinks about this case...that no one would deal with her/his own child/teen in this fashion after an act of disobedience.

 

[LietKynes]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-32...oolgirl-16-desk-threw-classroom-job-back.html
Senior London Harrell was among Fields' supporters and told WLTX: 'We just want to show that we're still supporting him and that he's still a good guy.

I don't think any students would support him if he was a bully or they were afraid of him.
:moo:

 

[bluesneakers]

...that regardless of what anyone on here thinks about this case...that no one would deal with her/his own child/teen in this fashion after an act of disobedience.

While I believe no one here would do it to their kid some posters have said if an SRO had done that to their kid they would appreciate it, approve of his actions, thank him, shake his hand, etc.

 

[bluesneakers]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-32...oolgirl-16-desk-threw-classroom-job-back.html
Senior London Harrell was among Fields' supporters and told WLTX: 'We just want to show that we're still supporting him and that he's still a good guy.

I don't think any students would support him if he was a bully or they were afraid of him.
:moo:

The ones supporting him aren't afraid of him. What about the students who aren't supporting him?

 

[DexterMorgan]

While I believe no one here would do it to their kid some posters have said if an SRO had done that to their kid they would appreciate it, approve of his actions, thank him, shake his hand, etc.

Let's not forget they also stated that they would have him over for Thanksgiving dinner and get him gifts for Christmas while asking him to come over to bring in the New Year. Lol.

 

[Woodland]

Once the teacher had 'picked his battle' with her, and she refused to accept his authority, he was in a bad position. EVERY student was watching him at that point. It was about more than the one girl then because now the others are watching to see if he is going to back down. It is hard to keep order and control in a room when the students do not believe you will back up your demands.

Maybe he could have handled it better. But it was a judgment call and it was what it was. He asked for her phone, as was described in the rule/regs of the school, and she denied him. It was not about 'ego' , IMO. It was about him showing the class that he meant business when he spoke.

Have you ever been in a class where the students have no respect nor 'fear' that their teacher is in charge? NOTHING gets done and nothing is taught.

It is sad to me that the teacher is being criticized for sticking to the rules of the classroom.

Underlined by me.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/sheriff-decide-deputy-job-classroom-arrest-34786058

"She wasn't a danger at that point; she was just being non-compliant and disrespectful. You try to de-escalate a situation.

Same or similar article linked in post #413.

Imo, both statements are a reflection of the underlying cause of this incident - the thought or idea that 'my respect' is on the line. It's the start of escalating a situation by not focusing on the situation at hand.

If the teacher felt he was in a bad position because every student was watching him, and that he would lose control of his classroom due to this situation - then there is a problem there imo.
As pointed out many times, he had options to de-escalate and he ought to have known that through training and experience. He refused to take one of those options. As did the administrator. Now they are both on leave from their jobs.

Same for Lott imo - stating that disrespect from the student was behind, or partly behind, the decision to take the matter to a higher level. He had to fire his officer.

Every adult knows or should know respect is earned, not a given right.

She was non-compliant as Lott pointed out - but to mix disrespectful in the equation - personalizing.

I thank both people for their opinion that disrespect and perception of others in the moment was a reason to escalate - it might explain what happens at some traffic stops (it does for me). I wish others luck that such focus and worry can be overcome.

All jmo.

 

[bluesneakers]

Underlined by me.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/sheriff-decide-deputy-job-classroom-arrest-34786058

"She wasn't a danger at that point; she was just being non-compliant and disrespectful. You try to de-escalate a situation.

Same or similar article linked in post #413.

Imo, both statements are a reflection of the underlying cause of this incident - the thought or idea that 'my respect' is on the line. It's the start of escalating a situation by not focusing on the situation at hand.

If the teacher felt he was in a bad position because every student was watching him, and that he would lose control of his classroom due to this situation - then there is a problem there imo.
As pointed out many times, he had options to de-escalate and he ought to have known that through training and experience. He refused to take one of those options. As did the administrator. Now they are both on leave from their jobs.

Same for Lott imo - stating that disrespect from the student was behind, or partly behind, the decision to take the matter to a higher level. He had to fire his officer.

Every adult knows or should know respect is earned, not a given right.

She was non-compliant as Lott pointed out - but to mix disrespectful in the equation - personalizing.

I thank both people for their opinion that disrespect and perception of others in the moment was a reason to escalate - it might explain what happens at some traffic stops (it does for me). I wish others luck that such focus and worry can be overcome.

All jmo.

This is true. If you feel as if someone is disrespecting you can not MAKE the person respect you. It can't be done. And while being respectful to staff and teachers is required in the student handbook it's entirely subjective. Which means some teachers might accept a certain level while other teachers are more sensitive. Some kids might be outright disrespectful and others might be more benign. When you're teaching young people lessons consistency is very, very important. They love to test you and see how far you will let it go. They love to learn where the line is and they figure out by stretching it and pushing you. They love to see if they are allowed to get away with what the other kid got away with.

IMO this is just part of learning and growing, though in a perfect world we'd all treat each other with more respect.

As for the BBM: Yep, it sure does.

 

[sonjay]

Now you are disagreeing with the internal investigators who investigated the case. If what you say is true, then the department would be hit with a wrongful termination lawsuit.

Link, please, to the report from the internal investigation..... I wasn't aware that had been released.

 

[sonjay]

It's gotten a bit heated in here.

I learned the day of the blue/black or white/gold dress to never tell someone what they are seeing in an image, that it's quite possible people are truly perceiving different things in an image they are looking at.

SO. Maybe it's more valuable to talk about what a "choke hold" is, and how it works. A choke hold stablizes the person being held, and cuts off their airway and blood to their head so that over time, they will lose consciousness. It's a hold that gets someone to realize they are defeated, and they stop struggling and submit. It takes many seconds to be effective in what it's designed to do.

This officer is NOT using a choke-hold if the action happens so fast people can't even agree on where hands and arms and necks were. It is a fleeting moment, using her head as leverage to get her backwards and the chair on the ground so he can slide her out of it.

Not a choke hold.

Thank you.

<modsnip>

 

[Hope4More]

Underlined by me.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/sheriff-decide-deputy-job-classroom-arrest-34786058

"She wasn't a danger at that point; she was just being non-compliant and disrespectful. You try to de-escalate a situation.

Same or similar article linked in post #413.

Imo, both statements are a reflection of the underlying cause of this incident - the thought or idea that 'my respect' is on the line. It's the start of escalating a situation by not focusing on the situation at hand.

If the teacher felt he was in a bad position because every student was watching him, and that he would lose control of his classroom due to this situation - then there is a problem there imo.
As pointed out many times, he had options to de-escalate and he ought to have known that through training and experience. He refused to take one of those options. As did the administrator. Now they are both on leave from their jobs.

Same for Lott imo - stating that disrespect from the student was behind, or partly behind, the decision to take the matter to a higher level. He had to fire his officer.

Every adult knows or should know respect is earned, not a given right.

She was non-compliant as Lott pointed out - but to mix disrespectful in the equation - personalizing.

I thank both people for their opinion that disrespect and perception of others in the moment was a reason to escalate - it might explain what happens at some traffic stops (it does for me). I wish others luck that such focus and worry can be overcome.

All jmo.

I agree respect has to be earned, but that's different than saying obeying authority is optional in that situation. It is not.

I wonder though, if part of what happened was a cultural clash. The school is in a middle class district as a whole, but the student population may not be, demographically. Or, may be but the girl was new and may have come from a different environment altogether.

I've spoken many times with an acquaintance who is a cop in the very violent city where I live. I've been amazed by what he's said about the culture he must deal with successfully to stay alive and to not use force unnecessarily.

Example. He's about to arrest a 20 something black youth for (robbery or home invasion or drug dealing or discharging a gun unlawfully). What the kid cares most about at that moment is not the fact he's about to be arrested, but that the cop treats him with respect. That the cop doesn't diss him. He can arrest him, put on the cuffs, haul him away, but all hell will break loose if the cop insults him or doesn't abide by the street definition of respect.

Maybe, just as a perhaps, the stakes for the girl weren't about the phone or detention or anything other than her perception she wasn't being treated with the respect she felt she was owed.

 

[sonjay]

Always the voice of reason. I also believe this girl can be helped. She does need to be accountable for her actions. Only then will she learn how to grow. Weather she succeeds in life will depend on her and those she surrounds herself with. IMO her lawyer may win her a financial settlement and get public support behind her by twisting facts in the public, but other than financially it doesn't help her one bit. She will probably be eighteen before this is all settled. I hope that she finds a support system that supports her and what is best for her and not ones that have their own agenda.
While I do believe she was wrong with her actions that day I do wish the best for her in life.

So far, what she has learned is that she can defy a perfectly reasonable and lawful request from her teacher, defy a perfectly reasonable and lawful request from the principal and assistant principal, and defy a perfectly reasonable and lawful request from a police officer, and that by her defiance and its logical result, she will be made into a hero by the media.

IMO, that's not a valuable lesson for her to learn, nor for students at her school or around the country to learn. This misguided support for her actions isn't doing her any favors.

 

[sonjay]

This is true. If feel as if someone is disrespecting you can not MAKE the person respect you. It can't be done. And while being respectful to staff and teachers is required in the student handbook it's entirely subjective. Which means some teachers might accept a certain level while other teachers are more sensitive. Some kids might be outright disrespectful and others might be more benign. When you're teaching young people lessons consistency is very, very important. They love to test you and see how far you let will go. They love to learn where the line is and they figure out by stretching it and pushing you. They love to see if they are allowed to get away with what the other kid got away with.

IMO this is just part of learning and growing, though in a perfect world we'd all treat each other with more respect.

As for the BBM: Yep, it sure does.

BBM. I agree. I believe the teacher was attempting to apply the no-cell-phone-use-in-class policy consistently, and he was prevented from doing so by this student's defiance.

 

[DexterMorgan]

People bait others on Websleuth occasionally. But it is up to us not to over react to a person who is pushing your buttons. Now once we over react; we will get a forced vacation while the button pusher moves on.

So Fields could have simply told the school that instead of extracting her violently for the minor infraction. It would be best to let her go about her business and suspend her at the end of the day. Jmo

 

[Hope4More]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-32...oolgirl-16-desk-threw-classroom-job-back.html
Senior London Harrell was among Fields' supporters and told WLTX: 'We just want to show that we're still supporting him and that he's still a good guy.

I don't think any students would support him if he was a bully or they were afraid of him.
:moo:

Obviously the 100 kids who protested his firing didn't think he was a bully or feared him. At least some of the kids in the classroom were very afraid of him and what he did, and would have had every reason to fear him if he hadn't been fired.

In between are the vast majority of kids at that school who would have differing opinions of him or none at all, depending on who they spoke to, who their friends were and what they'd seen of him, if they had encountered him at all.

In other words, the opinions of students at that school are as situational as any adults anywhere, and the opinion of any handful can't logically be inferred to represent the opinions of the rest.

 

[bluesneakers]

BBM. I agree. I believe the teacher was attempting to apply the no-cell-phone-use-in-class policy consistently, and he was prevented from doing so by this student's defiance.

And at least three other kids in the classroom.