SC - Columbia - Sheriff Slams Female Student to Floor In Class

[bluesneakers]

RSBM for focus

I am not a teacher but I have been thinking of how the situation could have been handled better and this strategy is pretty much what I came up with too.

If she had been disrupting the class to the extent that other students couldn't study or the teacher couldn't conduct the lesson, fine, her removal from the class was justified although certainly not in the violent way it was accomplished.

But if not, why not let her continue to text--or whatever she was doing--to her heart's content, and let her reap the consequences later in the form of detention, suspension, or whatnot?

Oh and as for the justification that she was disrupting class (not directed at you, EB), who here thinks that as soon as the girl was out of the classroom everyone else went right back to their studying?

It was close to what I came up with too, although I didn't come up with it so much as remember how similar situations were treated in my youth. I know I've had to sit through a class or two filled with shame and dread knowing an after class meeting was coming.

 

[EllieBee]

I feel the need to make a p.s. (That will teach you to ask for my opinion!) Yes, I would say "It's not like you" even if she were a not a particularly well-behaved student. Or I might say "You're usually more attentive" or some such. It is not dishonest and it is not currying favor. It is a reflection of the reality I wrote about earlier: these children are still developing, their brains are creating neuropathways constantly, they are forming world views and more importantly, beliefs about what sort of person they are. As much as possible I try to speak to their better self.
I realize I'm taking up more than my share of cyberspace! I feel very strongly about this and it breaks my heart to know that this is happening. THat video is what makes me doubt the future of education, not the eternal tendency of teenagers to goof off in class, whether it is inkwells, spitballs, notes, or texting.

I think your posts are a lovely use of internet space!

Absolutely frame things in a positive! I read somewhere, many moons ago, that with children, it takes seven positive statement to counter a negative statement.

So, like you said, rather than berate a child who is forever spacing out or misplacing work, say "I know you can do this work; in fact I will bet you can even help Sally with her work!" Or "i know there are many things more interesting than trig today, however, you will not be tested on those things so lets all pay attention, shall we?"

 

[al66pine]

T
You make excellent points.
Unlike in your position, dangling the carrot of "800 other people vying for your spot" would not likely work. I suppose it comes down to finding out what a person's "currency" is.
Also, college students are legally, if not frontal-lobally (I make up my own terminology ) adults. In this case, the student is a child who recently lost her mother and is in foster care.
I agree that a child who is consistently unable or unwilling to respect the classroom environment should have that privilege suspended. At this point, I have not seen or read that this girl was a habitual offender. And even were this the case, the obscene show of violence recorded on video is totally unjustified.
Honestly, I don't know what the perfect solution would have been. I can say with confidence, though, this was not it.
In my mind I have been playing over a variation of something I do with my children, who are much younger.
I make a verbal request. I wait for a response. If none, I make my request again. If no response, I suggest that the child can do as asked or perhaps they are in need of my help. Which is Kryptonite to young children. "NOOOOO! I can do it!".
If that does not work, they are removed from that specific activity/lesson.
Now I know this is not feasible with a teen. But some of the basics might apply.
Should she ignore my request to hand over the phone (and nowhere have I read she was yakking loudly during class, but that she was not paying attention in class) I would maybe say, "When you break the rules, you will not be permitted back into our class. If you are not permitted back into our class, you will not be able to do the work required to pass. Would you like to make a smart choice or a foolish one?" If she refuses still, then I might go about teaching the rest of my period. Afterwards, inform the office that this student violated classroom policy and is to be suspended for x days.
It is a lot easier(and less violent) to deny admittance to rather than remove an unwilling person. And also, I think this method would place the onus on the child. After all, she was allowed to make that choice. Hopefully, this would serve as a learning experience.
Again, this is if the child is breaking a rule that is not distracting or harming other kids.(which would warrant serious intervention to protect other children) Teens may be toddlers redux, but they are capable of feeling regret. By offering the child the opportunity to make a good choice rather than "coming at them" , it places the consequences squarely in their laps.
Sorry for yet another long-winded blah blah blah. I am thinking things out as I type.

^bbm ElllieBee,
I appreciate your insight, and your proposed method handling of student could be a good approach.

However, idea of this teacher's suspending student for X days is not a viable one, as I read dist & SVHS handbooks.
IIRC, you teach, so may be accustomed to that as an option in your school. Ditto others here who teacher. IDK

Back-2-SchoolHandbook, pages 21, 22, link at https://www.richland2.org/svh/pages/Default.aspx
Suspension "An administrator may suspend a student from the classroom or from school..."
Suspension/Detention in "StudentHandbook" page 41-43 https://www.richland2.org/svh/pages/Default.aspx

What is Plan B for handling this student in this situation? EllieBee? Anyone?

 

[EllieBee]

P

It was close to what I came up with too, although I didn't come up with it so much as remember how similar situations were treated in my youth. I know I've had to sit through a class or two filled with shame and dread knowing an after class meeting was coming.

I remember my Mother telling me when I was an adult, that the reason she would tell us as kids-"wait until your Father gets home" was not because she was passing the buck, but because she knew the waiting would be the worst!!!

Mom, I love you, but I still think you worked for the CIA.

 

[EllieBee]

^bbm ElllieBee,
I appreciate your insight, and your proposed method handling of student could be a good approach.

However, idea of this teacher's suspending student for X days is not a viable one, as I read dist & SVHS handbooks.
IIRC, you teach, so may be accustomed to that as an option in your school. Ditto others here who teacher. IDK

Back-2-SchoolHandbook, pages 21, 22, link at https://www.richland2.org/svh/pages/Default.aspx
Suspension "An administrator may suspend a student from the classroom or from school..."
Suspension/Detention in "StudentHandbook" page 41-43 https://www.richland2.org/svh/pages/Default.aspx

What is Plan B for handling this student in this situation? EllieBee? Anyone?

If this teacher had the power to call in a beat-down on a child, I am confident that he also had the power to recommend to admin a suspension.

And to be clear, I think all of it is a gross overreaction in this specific case.


ETA: Yes, I teach. But in a private, parent co-op school. I am fortunate to have the confidence of admin and the parent board that the choices I make in my classroom are thoughtful and informed. I am very supported and my decisions are given weight and respect because I am best qualified to assess those children with whom I spend five days a week.

I realize my situation is not the same as a public school teacher. I honor those teachers for the crap they have to deal with. That is not to say that all teachers are suited for the profession any more than all LE are suited for theirs. Bad fit is a bad fit.

 

[bluesneakers]

P

I remember my Mother telling me when I was an adult, that the reason she would tell us as kids-"wait until your Father gets home" was not because she was passing the buck, but because she knew the waiting would be the worst!!!

Mom, I love you, but I still think you worked for the CIA.

And you learned the trick and continued the tradition, right? I know I did. I felt like the meanest mom ever saying "We'll discuss it when we get home." My poor kid!

I'm curious about your mom's career in espionage.

 

[vestigare]

Thank you, kareylou and CCmakes3. I'm so glad I asked!

CC, your idea would have worked perfectly with ME, but a friend of mine worked in one of the worst school districts in South Central L.A. He said he never laid eyes on the parents of most of his students (and he was teaching 2nd or 3rd grade!) and the contact numbers in their files were no longer good.

kareylou, I admit I haven't read every post in this long thread. I didn't for example, realize the student was new to the class. (I never had that experience, since kids couldn't add my classes after the second meeting.) That would certainly call for a different response.

I love the idea of asking the students to help the teacher do his/her job and I used to use a similar approach. I thought my classes should have been seminars, but for budget reasons, they were large lecture groups. My job was to teach critical thinking about the theater and I believe the only way to do that is to model it. So although I spent hours prepping for each class hour, I actually taught it as a sort of large-group discussion. Students were allowed to interrupt me, add their own comments, ask questions, respond to questions from me--anything that was at least vaguely related to our topic.

And I explained from the beginning that the rules they initially found so "draconian" allowed allowed all of us to do nothing but concentrate on the discussion at hand.

I don't know. If I gotta go pee I probably am not concentrating much on what you are discussing.

 

[EllieBee]

And you learned the trick and continued the tradition, right? I know I did. I felt like the meanest mom ever saying "We'll discuss it when we get home." My poor kid!

I'm curious about your mom's career in espionage.

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

 

[Nova]

Nova,
I think you are a bit confused.
You asked for ideas on what to do. That necessitated my Suzie scenario. Unless you think I control time it was going to be speculative.
It however was still in keeping with the known parts of this case.

As for my math teacher analogy it wasn't about test results or failing. It was about calling out a teacher for something a teacher should have been doing. Just as the teacher called out a student for somethingy she should have been doing.

Your theater dept....don't much care. Sounds ridiculous to me but what do I know, my uni treated us like adults and adults don't need to be told when to go potty.


I also don't prescribe to blind following of rules.

Since you find teamwork so onerous, I think home-schooling would be best for you. Also a career in some field of solitary work. Few of us can eat, drink, nap, make personal calls or chat about non-work-related matters whenever the whimsy strikes us.

And if your university assumed students couldn't learn to "go potty" before class and then sit still for less than the length of most films, I don't see how they were treating you as adults.

 

[vestigare]

I would like to know what happened to "Keep your eyes on your own paper and mind your own business."

Seems there is a lot of discussion of how distracting it is for another student not to be totally engrossed in whatever page in a text book the teacher is on or whatever page on a laptop.

I think by the time you are in high school if you are still being easily distracted by your neighbor writing a note, reading a book, doing math problems in English class or whatever then that is a problem no teacher needs to be addressing.
That needs the attention of a therapist or doctor.

Has independent study ceased to exist? This explains why when I hire college kids they often have to be led by the hand to complete a task.

 

[vestigare]

Since you find teamwork so onerous, I think home-schooling would be best for you. Also a career in some field of solitary work. Few of us can eat, drink, nap, make personal calls or chat about non-work-related matters whenever the whimsy strikes us.

And if your university assumed students couldn't learn to "go potty" before class and then sit still for less than the length of most films, I don't see how they were treating you as adults.

It isn't teamwork if one person gets to control the personal bodily functions of another.

My uni didn't care. We had three hour classes. You could come and go.
Just like in long meetings at work you quietly get up and go to the bathroom or if you are the one speaking you excuse yourself and go.
Not a big deal.

 

[al66pine]

If this teacher had the power to call in a beat-down on a child, I am confident that he also had the power to recommend to admin a suspension.
And to be clear, I think all of it is a gross overreaction in this specific case.

Respectfully, if "teacher had the power to call in a beat-down on a child" seems like that provision would be in school handbooks. * I skimmed but did not find it. Maybe you or someone else can. Quote and link, please?

My tentative thoughts about what happened (could be incorrectly azz-uming) -
- teacher had authority to summon admin'r (or vice-prin), which teacher did.
- admin'r had auth to summon LEO/SRO, which admin'r did.
- then LEO/SRO had authority to remove student from classroom, and went waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over the top w his methods.

In any case, saying, for sake of discussion, teacher could not ask for a beat-down, what is Plan B for teacher handling this student in this situation? EllieBee? Anyone?

Something that circumvents teacher's need to call admin'r? Or? Thanks in adv.



____________________________________________
*FYI: links again:
Back-2-School Handbook, https://www.richland2.org/svh/pages/Default.aspx
"Student Handbook" https://www.richland2.org/svh/pages/Default.aspx

 

[EllieBee]

O/T, but WTH are these pics I am seeing in this banner? Pregnant cartoons and weird animal hybrids?.....sorry for the "squirrel!"

 

[Nova]

I would like to know what happened to "Keep your eyes on your own paper and mind your own business."

Seems there is a lot of discussion of how distracting it is for another student not to be totally engrossed in whatever page in a text book the teacher is on or whatever page on a laptop.

I think by the time you are in high school if you are still being easily distracted by your neighbor writing a note, reading a book, doing math problems in English class or whatever then that is a problem no teacher needs to be addressing.
That needs the attention of a therapist or doctor.

Has independent study ceased to exist? This explains why when I hire college kids they often have to be led by the hand to complete a task.

It's not because rules are so draconian in public schools.

But the short attention spans may have to do with spending 5+ hours per day in front of TV programs that have added so many commercials they now sometimes feature barely 2 minutes of content before taking another ad break. And kids sit in front of laptops where an endless assortment of pop ups appear to clamor for their attention. Unless they are playing video games, where a short attention span is actually rewarded with points for killing the most cartoon characters. And like all teens since the beginning of time, there are the raging hormones and constant concern with how they appear to others.

I know you don't think my experience is relevant, but I did teach students from all over the country, so I'm not just talking about the products of one state or school system. And I promise you they thought having to write more than 5 pages on any subject was a special form of torture entirely new to their experience.

So whatever would they spend "Independent Study" time doing? If it were writing 20-page papers (i.e., more in-depth, not longer just to be longer), I'm all for it!

 

[EllieBee]

Respectfully, if "teacher had the power to call in a beat-down on a child" seems like that provision would be in school handbooks. * I skimmed but did not find it. Maybe you or someone else can. Quote and link, please?

My tentative thoughts about what happened (could be incorrectly azz-uming) -
- teacher had authority to summon admin'r (or vice-prin), which teacher did.
- admin'r had auth to summon LEO/SRO, which admin'r did.
- then LEO/SRO had authority to remove student from classroom, and went waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay over the top w his methods.

In any case, saying, for sake of discussion, teacher could not ask for a beat-down, what is Plan B for teacher handling this student in this situation? EllieBee? Anyone?
Something that circumvents teacher's need to call admin'r? Or? Thanks in adv.



____________________________________________
*FYI: links again:
Back-2-School Handbook, https://www.richland2.org/svh/pages/Default.aspx
"Student Handbook" https://www.richland2.org/svh/pages/Default.aspx

You azz-ked for ideas on other ways this might have been handled. I do not have a link for my opinions or thoughts, but if I did...DAYUM! You'd be amazed! . What I posted was, as I posted, my opinion or idea, which as I posted was my opinion or my thoughts on the subject. If that needs a link, please let a mod know my post is in violation of TOS. Thanks.

 

[vestigare]

Lol
I have no idea. What have you been searching for, you bad girl.
One of them looks like spongebob. The rest I have no idea.

O/T, but WTH are these pics I am seeing in this banner? Pregnant cartoons and weird animal hybrids?.....sorry for the "squirrel!"

View attachment 83554

 

[EllieBee]

Lol
I have no idea. What have you been searching for, you bad girl.
One of them looks like spongebob. The rest I have no idea.

The other banner is for Goodyear tires. I have neither searched online for tires nor preggers game app girls. I suspect the Illuminati. And now I suspect YOU. :gasp:

 

[bluesneakers]

Respectfully, if "teacher had the power to call in a beat-down on a child" seems like that provision would be in school handbooks. * I skimmed but did not find it. Maybe you or someone else can. Quote and link, please?
[rsbm]

Maybe it's one of those unwritten rules. But here's your quote and link.

http://heavy.com/news/2015/10/ben-f...odybuilder-cop-student-desk-video-complaints/

 

[Nova]

It isn't teamwork if one person gets to control the personal bodily functions of another.

My uni didn't care. We had three hour classes. You could come and go.
Just like in long meetings at work you quietly get up and go to the bathroom or if you are the one speaking you excuse yourself and go.
Not a big deal.

Can you really NOT understand that some plays are longer than an hour and have no intermission? That actors, techs, and stage managers are on stage or on deck for all of that time?

Can you really NOT understand that some costumes are so complicated that film actors may have to go HALF A DAY without urinating, because the get-up doesn't allow it?

That people in retail cover an area of merchandise or a purchase window and are not allowed to leave their area until their scheduled replacement arrives? How about soldiers on guard duty?

That many of us work under deadlines that don't allow us to leave our desks for long periods of time?

That some bosses aren't as forgiving as yours, that those who walk out on meetings may be remembered when it is time for a promotion?

Can you really NOT understand that unless an adult is very ill, s/he can control when s/he urinates by going beforehand, drinking one less cup of coffee for breakfast, etc.?

Yes, emergencies happen and I confess I have allowed a student to leave when he or she said it was absolutely necessary. And no I didn't interrogate him or even ask why, I just took the student at his/her word. But nobody thought I was such a fool that s/he could get away with it every week. So I didn't have a continual stream of people wandering in and out of our discussion.

 

[vestigare]

I get that culture is somewhat to blame but aren't kids required anymore to learn how to self study and focus and apply themselves?

How are they going to function in a career when their boss says he wants this project done by Friday and there is no further instruction on how to go about it?

Kids seem able to focus on texts, what Kardashian is wearing what and who is dating whom. They certainly can learn to focus on their school work.

It's not because rules are so draconian in public schools.

But the short attention spans may have to do with spending 5+ hours per day in front of TV programs that have added so many commercials they now sometimes feature barely 2 minutes of content before taking another ad break. And kids sit in front of laptops where an endless assortment of pop ups appear to clamor for their attention. Unless they are playing video games, where a short attention span is actually rewarded with points for killing the most cartoon characters. And like all teens since the beginning of time, there are the raging hormones and constant concern with how they appear to others.

I know you don't think my experience is relevant, but I did teach students from all over the country, so I'm not just talking about the products of one state or school system. And I promise you they thought having to write more than 5 pages on any subject was a special form of torture entirely new to their experience.

So whatever would they spend "Independent Study" time doing? If it were writing 20-page papers (i.e., more in-depth, not longer just to be longer), I'm all for it!