SC - Michael Davidson, 16, shot to death in Gaffney robbery, 8 May 2010

[kbl8201]

well if we could all go back in time and kill hitler before he took power i think we would.

but how far do you take it? do you shoot an 8 year old shoplifter cause he 'might' turn into a robber who might turn into a killer?

 

[Kat]

What is the law there in SC? I know what it is here in TX just not there. Can the shopkeeper legally defend his place of business? (not saying whether it is right or wrong looking to see if this shopkeeper can keep from having charges against them).

I'll wait for the autopsy and maybe eye witness accounts.

I do feel sorry for the boys familys as they have lost their children. However, those children were engaged in armed robbery at the time of their being shot.

That's a big difference from a child trying to pocket a candybar. IMHO.

Where does the Hitler reference come from :waitasec:?

 

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

I think for ME the biggest part of this is intent and honestly, we won't ever know if he's honest or not on if he felt threatened at that particular moment. Maybe he was, I could see how. Or maybe he was pissed. who knows but him? however, my pops always told me...if you pull a gun you better be ready to use it...other people will be. It seems like IF these teens had guns then maybe someone could have told them that and made them think twice about carrying them. Or maybe the scenario would be worse. Who's to say

 

[kbl8201]

What is the law there in SC? I know what it is here in TX just not there. Can the shopkeeper legally defend his place of business? (not saying whether it is right or wrong looking to see if this shopkeeper can keep from having charges against them).

I'll wait for the autopsy and maybe eye witness accounts.

I do feel sorry for the boys familys as they have lost their children. However, those children were engaged in armed robbery at the time of their being shot.

That's a big difference from a child trying to pocket a candybar. IMHO.

Where does the Hitler reference come from :waitasec:?

the hitler reference is because the comment was 'stop a robber before he becomes a killer.'

so i likened it to going back to when hitler was just an alleged prostitute killer and assassinating him......hence saving 6 millions jews and countless other millions killed in world war 2.

the point i got was, 'kill them when there small time before the become big time'

 

[kbl8201]

and for the record, shooting people in the back isnt my way.

 

[Kat]

the hitler reference is because the comment was 'stop a robber before he becomes a killer.'

so i likened it to going back to when hitler was just an alleged prostitute killer and assassinating him......hence saving 6 millions jews and countless other millions killed in world war 2.

the point i got was, 'kill them when there small time before the become big time'

Okay gotcha thanks kbl.

 

[Txstrace]

We had a similar situation in my home town. A group of teens dressed in black broke into a home that they thought would be empty. The builder of the house was spending the night in it with his 8 year old daughter and just happened to have a gun. He heard the kids downstairs tearing up stuff and went down and confronted them. Of course, in the dark he didn't know it was teens. One of them was shot and died in the back yard. The kids parent and friends tried to make it look like the builder was at fault and the kid was a good kid. The builder was not tried for this since he shot in defense of him and his child.

My opinion...a good kid would not be doing something like that in the first place. Seems like the parents might have dropped the ball raising these kids and don't want to take the blame.

 

[kbl8201]

i find that to be a totally diffrent situation. if i found people in the process of robbing my home (or my buisness) and they were still doing it, and i had a gun, thats a totally diffrent matter

 

[OneLove]

the hitler reference is because the comment was 'stop a robber before he becomes a killer.'

so i likened it to going back to when hitler was just an alleged prostitute killer and assassinating him......hence saving 6 millions jews and countless other millions killed in world war 2.

the point i got was, 'kill them when there small time before the become big time'

Wow, I never heard Hitler was a prostitute killer, but if he was, yeah I sure do wish someone had taken him out. Six million people, along with their families, would have voted for that, for sure!

And a child shoplifter is a far cry from 18 year old gun-wielding robbers. A child shoplifter is a far cry from a prostitute killer.

I'd say, the way our so-called civilization is today, if you use a gun in the commission of a crime, be prepared to lose your life. I know for a fact that this cuts down on similar crimes in an area. I've seen it firsthand, measureable one-year-later statistics, DRASTIC lowering of violent crime. If it works.....and a person's life was threatened by a weapon, I won't stand against it.

 

[OneLove]

i find that to be a totally diffrent situation. if i found people in the process of robbing my home (or my buisness) and they were still doing it, and i had a gun, thats a totally diffrent matter

So would you be willing to risk your family members being murdered to intimidate you and keep you from testifying at their trial if they are caught? If you are threatened and choose not to testify, and every home in your neighborhood is then subsequently robbed, eventually leading to a few violent rapes, and then to a few murders, and you wish you could sell your house and move but can't because your house is now worth NOTHING because its now in a crime-ridden area where criminals rule, are you SURE you will have done the right thing for everyone?

 

[kbl8201]

Wow, I never heard Hitler was a prostitute killer, but if he was, yeah I sure do wish someone had taken him out. Six million people, along with their families, would have voted for that, for sure!

And a child shoplifter is a far cry from 18 year old gun-wielding robbers. A child shoplifter is a far cry from a prostitute killer.

I'd say, the way our so-called civilization is today, if you use a gun in the commission of a crime, be prepared to lose your life. I know for a fact that this cuts down on similar crimes in an area. I've seen it firsthand, measureable one-year-later statistics, DRASTIC lowering of violent crime. If it works.....and a person's life was threatened by a weapon, I won't stand against it.

apperently im not very articulate in getting my point across

first, i agree i would go back and kill hitler.

the shoplifter thing, what im saying is, if you shoot a teen robber, so he wont become an adult killer, do you shoot a child shoplifter so he wont become a teen robber and then an adult killer?

personally, if think if you want to go back and stop hitler you have to kill him at the end of world war 1.....thats when the seeds of his evil formed in his mind. if you wait till, say the 1922 attempted coup, he has already spread his vitorol to others, and others might follow his path.

 

[kbl8201]

jeeze what is with all the anger towards me? i said i dont think i could shoot people in the back, does that make me evil?

are you so certian what you would do in that situation?

 

[OneLove]

and for the record, shooting people in the back isnt my way.

I do understand your sentiment, but the criminals who just committed a crime against you would most likely not only shoot you in the back, they would torture and murder your innocent children and then turn and smirk at you because, to them, you're just a wimp for NOT stopping them.

You think like a NICE person; they think like a CRIMINAL.

I do not want my world ruled by outlaws because we nice people just don't want to do anything that's, well.... not nice to the poor critters.

 

[mysticrose]

What is the law there in SC? I know what it is here in TX just not there. Can the shopkeeper legally defend his place of business? (not saying whether it is right or wrong looking to see if this shopkeeper can keep from having charges against them).

I'll wait for the autopsy and maybe eye witness accounts.

I do feel sorry for the boys familys as they have lost their children. However, those children were engaged in armed robbery at the time of their being shot.

That's a big difference from a child trying to pocket a candybar. IMHO.

Where does the Hitler reference come from :waitasec:?

Here ya go Kat:

http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c011.htm

There is quite a bit of info here, you will prob. want to scroll down and read a ARTICLE 5 BURGLARY, HOUSEBREAKING, ROBBERY AND THE LIKE and ARTICLE 6 PROTECTION OF PERSONS AND PROPERTY or all of it if you wish

 

[OneLove]

jeeze what is with all the anger towards me? i said i dont think i could shoot people in the back, does that make me evil?

are you so certian what you would do in that situation?

kbl8201, my anger is not directed toward you at all, sorry if it seems so. My anger is directed at the animals that murdered an innocent 16 year old son in a horrendous way simply because his mother was scheduled to testify against them in a trial for a less-significant crime than this armed robbery.

I spent many years working with at-risk youth and first-offenders. I love, honor, and respect the ability many of them have and cry for the tragic circumstances most of them were born into. I have seen many go on to develop their potential in beautiful ways.

But when they threaten another's life with a deadly weapon, they have crossed a line that rarely gets uncrossed. There are statistically verified methods of predicting which youthful offenders have a good chance at a crime-free future and which ones will likely spend their lives incarcerated. Watch carefully the parents of these young men who were shot in the commission of a crime; if they blame the victim, these kids don't have much of a chance and WILL repeat their crimes and escalate until they are stopped, by someone somehow somewhere. These days, the "system" cannot afford to incarcerate those who are a menace to society, so it falls to law-abiding citizens to protect themselves (and their loved ones!).

 

[kbl8201]

well i hope none of us ever have to find out what its like to kill someone, for whatever reason, self defense, or viglante.
cause one thing i can state without a doubt is taking a life sucks, i dont care what the reason is.

 

[Kat]

Here ya go Kat:

http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c011.htm

There is quite a bit of info here, you will prob. want to scroll down and read a ARTICLE 5 BURGLARY, HOUSEBREAKING, ROBBERY AND THE LIKE and ARTICLE 6 PROTECTION OF PERSONS AND PROPERTY or all of it if you wish

Thanks Mysticrose!

SC also has the Castle Doctrine (TX does too) I wouldn't imagine any charges will be brought against this shopkeeper (given what we've read so far, not taking into consideration any new information that might change the circumstances).

The shopkeeper was well within his legal rights to defend his property under that law.

I support the Castle Doctrine myself. (Just my thoughts and opinion).

I need more facts about the injuries sustained before I think through this deeper.

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

I don't have enough info but am nervous about store proprietors running out into the street shooting at fleeing criminals. IF that is how it happened. That puts a whole lot of innocent citizens on the streets and sidewalks and coming out of other businesses in needlessly harms way IMOO. IF they were shot at while fleeing away and the robbery had already ocurred and was over. Then I feel the proprietor was wrong.

If the teens were still in the process of robbing the store at gunpoint, I think the proprietor has every right to use a gun to attempt to "level the field" against the threat of harm to himself or employees.

Where does it say that the proprietors ran out into the street and then opened fire on these criminals?

 

[OneLove]

well i hope none of us ever have to find out what its like to kill someone, for whatever reason, self defense, or viglante.
cause one thing i can state without a doubt is taking a life sucks, i dont care what the reason is.

Here's something to which we can both toast !

 

[justthinkin]

apperently im not very articulate in getting my point across

first, i agree i would go back and kill hitler.

the shoplifter thing, what im saying is, if you shoot a teen robber, so he wont become an adult killer, do you shoot a child shoplifter so he wont become a teen robber and then an adult killer?

personally, if think if you want to go back and stop hitler you have to kill him at the end of world war 1.....thats when the seeds of his evil formed in his mind. if you wait till, say the 1922 attempted coup, he has already spread his vitorol to others, and others might follow his path.

Two of these teeens were already of legal age, adults, and would be tried as adults. These weren't shoplifters, these were armed robbers. Huge difference. Sorry, if a crook's threatening my life with a gun, then he deserves whatever he gets. Since the young men were armed, the workers couldn't shoot them in the legs hoping to detain them or they could expect to receive return fire.

Technically if the robbers were leaving, those inside the restaurant were no longer in danger. But I imagine if they'd chanced stepping outside to see what direction the robbers took off in, they could have risked getting shot.

I will back the workers on this one because the robbers were armed. If the robbers weren't armed, no way, no how would I condone what the workers did.