SC - Nine killed in Emanuel AME Church shooting, Charleston; Dylann Roof charged #2

[SCHMAE]

Strange, we're from the same state but when I hear the term "redneck" my immediate reaction is negative. My immediate thought is ignorant gun toting, bible thumping racists as you said. My father would fit your terminology so I guess I am the daughter of a redneck. I absolutely in no way resent your understanding of the term & in no way am criticizing you or your opinion. I guess it just means different things to different people.

I'm not a native Texan. It may be regional. If you live in a city where there are more white collar workers, then the term may seem more negative and in the rural areas where there are actual ranchers, then it's just what they are. I actually think of ranchers as cowboys and farmers as rednecks but my daughter tells me at school there are 'fake rednecks' who drive trucks, wear the boots but they live in neighborhoods and don't own livestock or land. They're for ' show'. They want to be known as ' rednecks'. That's a 'clique' at the school.

Also Roof's friend who spoke in that video I posted on the previous page.... I wonder if he's read his friends' manifesto and if he feels different after doing so. He said in the video he feels no differently about Roof today vs. last week and basically he's not racist and an ok guy, a good friend. Strange.

 

[mysteriew]

His manifesto is the same talking points you constantly see posted by right wingers.

I can't believe all the defense of the n-word here. Redneck does not have the same historical and negative connotation. The entitlement is strong.

So an insult to one is less than an insult to another? Good to know.

 

[rosemadderlake]

In the wake of the lives gunned down in Charlestown SC, I am not sure how much more sorrow, we as a collective people (USA) can sustain; it is not about guns (imo). – Oklahoma , Columbine, 911, UVA, Aurora CO theater, Sandy Hook Elementary School, Isla Vista, and now United Methodist Church SC. And these are just ‘some’ of the US acts of terror.

What is terrorism? –What do these acts of terrorism have in common? What has changed in society? Going global, internet, abandoned children, angry young white boys, angry young religious groups, video games, virtual reality, and easy access to guns and weapons in the U.S., and most of all no collective faith, or faith in faith? This did not exist in my day – sure we had other issues in the 60-70’s BUT terrorism as a method was not known until the Munich massacre. I remember well what a revelation that was… How could anyone do such a thing? You are supposed to declare WAR. How is it possible to stop it?

There is evil in this world – no amount of awareness, diagnosis & medication, divorce mediation, jail time, class room worries, or friends and family can predict the next act of total derangement. Like a defective animal, we do have our own version as humans, in nature. What caused this sociopathic behavior? Ok, the definition explains something: Sociopath: personality disorder marked by aggressive violent antisocial behavior with lack of remorse or empathy. This perhaps explains the motive, but not the act. Not really…

Collectively, what is to be done? Where do we begin? How do we stop it? How do we heal? Every act of terrorism creates an indelible wound in our collective psyche, and in this instance the people who died in a church in SC were welcoming to this troubled young boy (I can’t call him a man). Their openness and inclusiveness will be remembered long after we dissect his behavior or the actual shooting event. Imo…

What stands out like a beacon of hope is this beautiful group at bible study on any given night, and their willingness to include a stranger? They accepted him! I weep for their families because I know from my own experience in the 70’s that the trust was reciprocated. I don’t look to politics for the answer, but I am looking at our ability as a people, as the human race to evolve beyond this tragedy. What happened in a place of worship should never happen in a place of worship. How do we understand and muster up the resolve to say that this will never happen again? -Guns? - At the entrance of every church?

We live in deeply troubled and tragic times….

I write my thoughts and hope that they will be heard by the almighty, by the people, and most of all by the families of those whose lives were cut short in the wake of everything that God taught us to be – welcoming, friendly, and inclusive to all. God bless these families – each and every day. May their hearts know there are broken hearts that will never understand, but can only pray for the souls who can no longer speak for themselves.

 

[starviego]

Where is the actual hard evidence pointing to the suspect's guilt?


--Have any of the living witnesses come forward to identify Roof as the gunman they saw in the church? No.

--Can the slugs and shell casings found in the church be linked back to the gun seized from Roof via ballistics evidence? Haven't seen it.

--Did they recover gunshot residue (GSR) on Roof''s hands or clothing? Haven't seen it.

--Were his fingerprints found on the gun/mags/ammo? Haven't seen it.

--Did the suspect confess? CNN claims he did, based on two anonymous LE sources. Yeah, anonymous sources, which aren't worth very much. So why don't they show us the videotaped confession? Probably because there is no confession to hear.

--What about the photo stills of the suspect allegedly outside the church and his car at the scene? Those photos could have been from a different time and location, for all we know. And even if they are real, it might be evidence he was there, but that's not evidence he committed a mass shooting.


DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!

 

[Nova]

The American flag flying at half-staff and the racist flag at full-staff, in North Carolina. :facepalm:

(Emphasis added.) I believe that is SOUTH Carolina. Note the palmetto tree on the state flag. SC is the "Palmettio State".

 

[Nova]

IIRC Pictures posted must have a link.

Oh here is one.

Reading this article will help explain to you why. jmo idk

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...flag-isnt-at-half-mast-after-church-shooting/

“The flag is part of a Confederate War Memorial, and is not on a pulley system, so it cannot be lowered, only removed,” Raycom Media reporter Will Wilson tweeted.

So why not remove it for a week or so? (I'm not asking you, Elley Mae. It's a rhetorical question.)

 

[mysteriew]

In the wake of the lives gunned down in Charlestown SC, I am not sure how much more sorrow, we as a collective people (USA) can sustain; it is not about guns (imo). – Oklahoma , Columbine, 911, UVA, Sandy Hook Elementary School, Isla Vista, and now United Methodist Church SC. And these are just ‘some’ of the US acts of terror.

What is terrorism? –What do these acts of terrorism have in common? What has changed in society? Going global, internet, abandoned children, angry young white boys, angry young religious groups, video games, virtual reality, and easy access to guns and weapons in the U.S., and most of all no collective faith, or faith in faith? This did not exist in my day – sure we had other issues in the 60-70’s BUT terrorism as a method was not known until the Munich massacre. I remember well what a revelation that was… How could anyone do such a thing? You are supposed to declare WAR. How is it possible to stop it?

There is evil in this world – no amount of awareness, diagnosis & medication, divorce mediation, jail time, class room worries, or friends and family can predict the next act of total derangement. Like a defective animal, we do have our own version as humans, in nature. What caused this sociopathic behavior? Ok, the definition explains something: Sociopath: personality disorder marked by aggressive violent antisocial behavior with lack of remorse or empathy. This perhaps explains the motive, but not the act. Not really…

Collectively, what is to be done? Where do we begin? How do we stop it? How do we heal? Every act of terrorism creates an indelible wound in our collective psyche, and in this instance the people who died in a church in SC were welcoming to this troubled young boy (I can’t call him a man). Their openness and inclusiveness will be remembered long after we dissect his behavior or the actual shooting event. Imo…

What stands out like a beacon of hope is this beautiful group at bible study on any given night, and their willingness to include a stranger? They accepted him! I weep for their families because I know from my own experience in the 70’s that the trust was reciprocated. I don’t look to politics for the answer, but I am looking at our ability as a people, as the human race to evolve beyond this tragedy. What happened in a place of worship should never happen in a place of worship. How do we understand and muster up the resolve to say that this will never happen again? -Guns? - At the entrance of every church?

We live in deeply troubled and tragic times….

I write my thoughts and hope that they will be heard by the almighty, by the people, and most of all by the families of those whose lives were cut short in the wake of everything that God taught us to be – welcoming, friendly, and inclusive to all. God bless these families – each and every day. May their hearts know there are broken hearts that will never understand, but can only pray for the souls who can no longer speak for themselves.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[zwiebel]

I still haven't caught up so forgive me if this was already posted, but a Texas firefighter has been terminated over what he said about Dylan Roof.

According to a KLTV.com report, Cook was accused of making a post on a South Carolina newspaper's Facebook page that said Dylann Roof "needs to be praised for the good deed he has done."

http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/loca...ent-charleston-shooting-dylann-roof/29017427/

 

[faw720]

I'm not a native Texan. It may be regional. If you live in a city where there are more white collar workers, then the term may seem more negative and in the rural areas where there are actual ranchers, then it's just what they are. I actually think of ranchers as cowboys and farmers as rednecks but my daughter tells me at school there are 'fake rednecks' who drive trucks, wear the boots but they live in neighborhoods and don't own livestock or land. They're for ' show'. They want to be known as ' rednecks'. That's a 'clique' at the school.

Also Roof's friend who spoke in that video I posted on the previous page.... I wonder if he's read his friends' manifesto and if he feels different after doing so. He said in the video he feels no differently about Roof today vs. last week and basically he's not racist and an ok guy, a good friend. Strange.

Actually, I lived the first 18 years of my life on a ranch. I still have family & friends living in that rural area & I have to say that none of them have a racial bone in their bodies. That is not the case with some of the people that I know who also live in the area. With the exception of 10 years, my last 55 years has been spent in urban areas. When I moved back there, it was obvious thatI didn't really fit in anymore so I came back to the city. Possibly you saw one of my earlier posts about a man there shooting over the head of an African American boy who was a foster child in an all white rural town. There are some (certainly not all) people there who live for drinking beer, shooting their guns, & damning the "N" people & other unsavory things. With my big mouth, had I stayed in the county of my birth, I would have probably gotten shot myself. My brother has a saying, "We are the product of our life experiences". If that is true, I'm extremely happy that I've been able to experience a lot of people from different cultures & colors. I have found that most people have more in common than not. In the end, we all bleed red. I've never known a human yet who bled white, black, brown, or yellow.

 

[Nova]

I'm not even going to judge the judge for his use of the N-word. Though it's a pretty good indication of what to expect. I'm going to judge him for how he has handled this case so far, which is not looking real good. From what I have seen he seems to have far more empathy for the white family members of the perpetrator, then he does for the black victims and their families. These people can't hide their racism, even when they try.

As I hope you know, Kaaboom, I respect your opinion; but I don't understand this one. In the clips I saw yesterday the judge was very solicitous of the relatives of the dead and very gentle in his offers for them to speak. (I realize he may have just been following the law in allowing the statements from victims; I'm talking about his demeanor. It surprised me because I don't know if I've ever heard a judge use that tone of voice.)

Are we talking about the same judge?

 

[mysteriew]

Where is the actual hard evidence pointing to the suspect's guilt?


--Have any of the living witnesses come forward to identify Roof as the gunman they saw in the church? No.

--Can the slugs and shell casings found in the church be linked back to the gun seized from Roof via ballistics evidence? Haven't seen it.

--Did they recover gunshot residue (GSR) on Roof''s hands or clothing? Haven't seen it.

--Were his fingerprints found on the gun/mags/ammo? Haven't seen it.

--Did the suspect confess? CNN claims he did, based on two anonymous LE sources. Yeah, anonymous sources, which aren't worth very much. So why don't they show us the videotaped confession? Probably because there is no confession to hear.

--What about the photo stills of the suspect allegedly outside the church and his car at the scene? Those photos could have been from a different time and location, for all we know. And even if they are real, it might be evidence he was there, but that's not evidence he committed a mass shooting.


DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!

As far as the living witnesses, one of them spoke at his bond hearing. As for the fingrprints, gunpowder residue, and most other evidence that won't come out until court as usual.

 

[mysteriew]

I still haven't caught up so forgive me if this was already posted, but a Texas firefighter has been terminated over what he said about Dylan Roof.



http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/loca...ent-charleston-shooting-dylann-roof/29017427/

Good. I am not a regular church goer. But Fri. I went to Bible school with my DGS. Sitting hearing those kids sing I almost cried. Thinking of what happened in SC, thinking what if it happened here.

 

[katydid23]

Where is the actual hard evidence pointing to the suspect's guilt?


--Have any of the living witnesses come forward to identify Roof as the gunman they saw in the church? No.

--Can the slugs and shell casings found in the church be linked back to the gun seized from Roof via ballistics evidence? Haven't seen it.

--Did they recover gunshot residue (GSR) on Roof''s hands or clothing? Haven't seen it.

--Were his fingerprints found on the gun/mags/ammo? Haven't seen it.

--Did the suspect confess? CNN claims he did, based on two anonymous LE sources. Yeah, anonymous sources, which aren't worth very much. So why don't they show us the videotaped confession? Probably because there is no confession to hear.

--What about the photo stills of the suspect allegedly outside the church and his car at the scene? Those photos could have been from a different time and location, for all we know. And even if they are real, it might be evidence he was there, but that's not evidence he committed a mass shooting.


DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE!

HE CONFESSED already. He said he did it.

 

[Nova]

Why did he use the term redneck? Are all rural people bad?

In that context, "redneck" doesn't refer to all rural people, nor more than the "N word" refers to all urban blacks.

 

[mysteriew]

As I hope you know, Kaaboom, I respect your opinion; but I don't understand this one. In the clips I saw yesterday the judge was very solicitous of the relatives of the dead and very gentle in his offers for them to speak. (I realize he may have just been following the law in allowing the statements from victims; I'm talking about his demeanor. It surprised me because I don't know if I've ever heard a judge use that tone of voice.)

Are we talking about the same judge?

Everything about that hearing was off. Usually family doesn't speak at the bond hearing, but they were permitted to. He spoke of the suspects family being harmed which rubbed on the the raw nerves of the families who suffered losses.

Many are putting that down to racism. And it may be. But I am not sure it was. I wonder if it couldn't be a combination of things. First he would have read about the family members who called in the reports. He may have been touched by that. Also I think there is a fear of a racial war and he may have misguidedly been trying to use some way of mitigating that. He was misguided and used very poor judgement but I am not convinced it was racism myself. It was the wrong place and too much too soon for that type of sentiment for sure.

 

[Nova]

One thing that disturbs me in the coverage of this case is how quickly it is being turned into a gun debate. IMO this kid would have done this. If he couldn't get a gun he would have built a pipe bomb. No one is really looking at what I really believe is the cause. Not only for these murders, but many more. Drugs. How many times when we see a horrific crime do we see so called "hard" drugs involved? But that doesn't fit in with the current agenda and they really don't know how to resolve the problem so it just isn't discussed.

Yeah, that and no drug killed nine people at Mother Emanuel. A nut with a gun did.

 

[mysteriew]

In that context, "redneck" doesn't refer to all rural people, nor more than the "N word" refers to all urban blacks.

It refers to a culture.

 

[Nova]

My great grandma, Eleanor Hurley, grew up in the Appalachians with her Irish family. She used to say they were called 'hillbilly's' because her brothers tended the goats up in the foothills. Who knows if that is the real meaning though...

I think it was originally used in this country to refer to people in the Appalachians. Later, it was used to refer to residents of the Ozarks. And then it became a general term for yokels.

 

[Nova]

I have read a short section and frankly do not intend to waste another second of my allotted time on earth reading more.

The main gist that I got:

N*ggers (his terminology) are stupid
N*ggers are violent
N*ggers cannot behave decently
Slavery wasn't as widespread or as bad as suggested
Many black people liked being slaves and were treated really well
White people are superior to black people
Black people are obessed with race
White people never bother about race - the problems are all down to blacks and their inferiority complex causing them to imagine racism....

Sounds a lot like Robert Penn Warren's essay defending slavery in I'LL TAKE MY STAND. He later repudiated the ideas in his essay.

But he didn't invent them, nor did his repudiation stop them. Margaret Mitchell uses most of the same arguments in GONE WITH THE WIND.

 

[Montjoy]

Yeah, that and no drug killed nine people at Mother Emanuel. A nut with a gun did.

And it's unlikely that he would have done nearly as much damage if he'd had a bow and arrow or a knife, rather than the gun he bought from a legal firearms dealer despite having been indicted on multiple felonies.