SC - Paul Murdaugh & mom Margaret Found Shot To Death - Alex Murdaugh Accused - Islandton #16

[Seattle1]

I thought AM might have talked about trying to turn Paul over to explain the cellphone lying on top of Paul -- it "popped out". JMO.

I dunno -- can't say my son's cell phone would be the first thing on my mind in this situation.

It would make more sense to me if AM told investigators he didn't even remember why he was looking for the phone-- maybe he heard it ring but when he realized it was in his hand, he just dropped it on Paul's back.

I once heard a psychologist testify in a wrongful death suit about how a mother performed CPR on her decapitated child for 7 minutes until the medics arrived. This was obviously a futile effort but at that moment, nobody could have convinced her of that. MOO

 

[Seattle1]

Planting information without receiving an objection. Grrr....

I know! I kept waiting for the objection that counsel is testifying!

 

[otto]

I thought AM might have talked about trying to turn Paul over to explain the cellphone lying on top of Paul -- it "popped out". JMO.

Attempting to turn-over Paul explains why the cell phone fell out and is tossed on his back, but it doesn't explain why Alex tried to turn-over Paul in the first place. Paul was lying face down and his phone was in his back pocket. Alex didn't need to turn him over to check his phone. Furthermore, Paul's head exploded like a watermelon, according to the defence opening statements, so it's not like anyone needed to check his pulse.

Why did Alex tamper with (attempt to roll-over) Paul's body when he was face down dead? Did Paul have something under his body?

 

[Snoopster]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>
<modsnip>
I'm also curious about whether there can be 2 types of 'shot' in a shotgun at the same time. The report implies that shot one was different than shot two. Does this make sense? How does this work in terms of shotguns? Would you have to reload? Or could you have two types of shot in the shotgun ahead of time, without reloading?

 

[vls12345]

Someone on one of the earlier threads here talked about a rifle being loaded with buckshot and birdshot and why hunters (commonly) do that. I don't know about hunting but it sounded plausible. Maybe that person will be kind enough to repost.

MOO.

 

[otto]

I am thoroughly confused as well.
The report said that the second shot was 'different' than the first in that it was shotshell, commonly known as birdshot.
Are they implying there were two kinds of 'shot' in the shotgun?



I know absolutely nothing about guns/rifles/shotguns. Does anyone have insight into what this might mean?

ETA: ooops, sorry. I should have provided a link. Here it is:
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23580607/murdaugh-motion-for-sanctions.pdf

I was just thinking about that. I know nothing about guns and bullets, but one type of bullet blew a hole in Paul's chest and another type of bullet exploded his head. 16 gauge bullet and 12 gauge gun were mentioned. Sounds like close range 12 gauge would explode Paul's head, while 16 gauge is better for skeet and birds, maybe holes in the chest?

Hopefully someone who knows guns will help out.

 

[worm]

Thanks worm.

But I'm also curious about whether there can be 2 types of 'shot' in a shotgun at the same time. The report implies that shot one was different than shot two. Does this make sense? How does this work in terms of shotguns? Would you have to reload? Or could you have two types of shot in the shotgun ahead of time, without reloading?

<modsnip - no link>
A pretty brutal weapon to use against somebody. In spite of what we see unfolding, I still want to reject the notion that somebody used a shotgun on their own family. But these cases keep showing us that there are no uncrossed lines.

 

[Warwick7]

Interesting observation!

But somehow in my heart I just don't believe that AM is that smart to position the shot to blame someone else.

He was blaming everyone that could lay his hands on when was in the LE car giving his statement.

 

[worm]

I was just thinking about that. I know nothing about guns and bullets, but one type of bullet blew a hole in Paul's chest and the another type of bullet exploded his head. 16 gauge bullet and 12 gauge gun were mentioned. Sounds like close range 12 gauge would explode Paul's head, while 16 gauge is better for skeet and birds, maybe holes in the chest?

Hopefully someone who knows guns will help out.

Both are pretty powerful weapons.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

<modsnip - no link> A pretty brutal weapon to use against somebody. In spite of what we see unfolding, I still want to reject the notion that somebody used a shotgun on their own family. But these cases keep showing us that there are no uncrossed lines.

I'd like to think so too. I just can't imagine doing that to family, or anyone.

 

[Snoopster]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

<modsnip> Why would you load buckshot first and birdshot second? Could some people be confused about the types of 'shot' and simply load what was easily at hand?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I was just thinking about that. I know nothing about guns and bullets, but one type of bullet blew a hole in Paul's chest and another type of bullet exploded his head. 16 gauge bullet and 12 gauge gun were mentioned. Sounds like close range 12 gauge would explode Paul's head, while 16 gauge is better for skeet and birds, maybe holes in the chest?

Hopefully someone who knows guns will help out.

Here's a good explanation about the differences.

 

[worm]

Just to add that all of the buckshot/birdshot 12 gauge/16gauge talk is referring to Paul’s attack. They report that Maggie was killed by a rifle bullet. 223 or similar that I can’t recall.

 

[otto]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

My understanding from testimony is that the first shot was the chest, second shot was head. A 12 gauge shotgun was used, a 16 gauge bullet was found.

If the buckshot was first and the birdshot was to the head, which was the 16 gauge? The second shot?

 

[Seattle1]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>
<modsnip>

I believe we're also to believe that PM was first shot from a distance and that only the 2nd shot was in close enough range to cause stippling. MOO

 

[Snoopster]

Just to add that all of the buckshot/birdshot 12 gauge/16gauge talk is referring to Paul’s attack. They report that Maggie was killed by a rifle bullet. 223 or similar that I can’t recall.

Again, for a complete neophyte gun person like me, are saying that buckshot is 12 gauge and 16 gauge is equivalent to birdshot?

I'm still trying to put the pieces together. AM had 16 gauge stuffed in his 12 gauge shotgun as I understand it. Why would someone do that?

Sorry for so many ballistics questions! But clearly I know nothing about these kind of weapons.

 

[Seattle1]

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Buckshot vs. Birdshot for Home Defense

What are the benefits of using birdshot vs buckshot for home defense? We tested the two in a head-to-head battle.

www.shootingillustrated.com

 

[GoBuckeyes]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

<modsnip> Why would you load buckshot first and birdshot second? Could some people be confused about the types of 'shot' and simply load what was easily at hand?

I suppose someone could be confused if they hadn't been around guns, or had possibly only been around handguns. The only reason I can think of to load them that way, with buck first and then bird is if someone had a very limited supply of ammo.

People who live an area where they have to keep predators (non human) at bay, will load according to what they're guarding against. I suppose if large bear were a threat, AND someone had limited buck shot, they might fully load the gun so that all the larger shot would be shot first. And if that didn't stop the predator, bird shot is better than nothing at all.

Personally, for home defense, I don't like loading a gun with two different kinds of shot. I don't trust that I wouldn't get confused, especially with adrenaline rushing.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

View attachment 398633

An Official Journal Of The NRA | Buckshot vs. Birdshot for Home Defense

What are the benefits of using birdshot vs buckshot for home defense? We tested the two in a head-to-head battle.

www.shootingillustrated.com

Thank you for posting.

 

[clearskies1]

Attempting to turn-over Paul explains why the cell phone fell out and is tossed on his back, but it doesn't explain why Alex tried to turn-over Paul in the first place. Paul was lying face down and his phone was in his back pocket. Alex didn't need to turn him over to check his phone. Furthermore, Paul's head exploded like a watermelon, according to the defence opening statements, so it's not like anyone needed to check his pulse.

Why did Alex tamper with (attempt to roll-over) Paul's body when he was face down dead? Did Paul have something under his body?

Speculation/Theory: I don't know if he turned him over or not. He needed to explain the strange circumstance of Paul's phone being placed on the back side of his body. So he said he tried to turn him over, when in fact, he did not -- what probably happened was that he took the phone out of Paul's pocket, realized he could not access it without a code and then left it there. Then he made the story up of turning him over and it popping out. There is no plausible reason to check his pulse but he needed to find a story to explain the phone --and trying to turn him/check his pulse was all he could think of. JMO.